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Audi A6

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  • pgillpgill Posts: 84
    Question for you: Are you modifying leased Allroads? What do you do at lease turn-in? Don't you have to revert back to stock? If so, what do you do with the aftermarket parts?
  • Mark, as you know I have an allroad plus my wife drives the A4. While at the dealer recently for routine maintenance I was talking very casually to a very well-informed salesman, and the subject of performance mods and specifically chipping came up. I've had the chipping idea more in the back of my mind than anything, as I find the 2.7T pretty darned strong as is and am leary about possibly voiding the engine/drivetrain warranty on a car that we all know would be very expensive to have repaired on your own. My conversation unfortunately reinforced those fears as this particular salesman told me his dealership's policy on such mods. Basically they frown on it and strongly discourage them and in fact will not even consider taking them in on trade when you go to buy a replacement vehicle - they avoid them like the plague. They know exactly which cars have been modified and according to this guy those who think they can avoid detection (by reinstalling the factory chip, etc) are only fooling themselves. I have no way of knowing if this is true or not, but in my situation here I think I will stay stock at least until the warranty expires - and probably even then I'll have the same concerns if I were to purchase an extended warranty. I wish the dealer here was more "chip friendly" but unfortunately that's not the case - assuming your's is, I must say that I'm jealous as spending $600-$1,000 and getting a measurable boost in performance without warranty concerns would be very attractive indeed!
  • I have leased virtually all of the Audis I have ever "owned" -- I paid cash for a 1987 500 CS turbo quattro.

    I have chipped only 1 of the Audis I leased -- the dealer did it for me. Some dealers are offering chipped and otherwise modified cars as "dealer/performance" options. My dealer will, from time to time, put ground effects, aftermarket wheels, tires, etc. on cars and mark them up -- they go fast.

    I have put suspension modifications -- full S8 suspension on an A8 -- the dealer did it for me, I ordered the parts from Joe Hoppen Motorsports. When the parts came in they were in an Audi box and the writing on them was in German. My dealer sells wheels to "dress up" or for performance purposes -- both Porsches and Audis. One of the local VW dealers adds ground effects and "recaro-like" seats, and leather interiors on cars that don't come (to the US) with leather.

    I belong -- and have for over 10 years -- to the Audi Car Club (formerly the quattro club of America). Many of the members have put suspension mods, turbo mods, (one guy put a supercharger on his 2.8 A4 -- and his dealer in Huston did the work), plus tire./wheel mods etc.

    I have been to the "TT gathering" where almost 100 TT's came together in one spot at the same time from all over -- 3/4 of them were in some way modified -- sound systems, engine mods, ground effects, special paint.

    I read, regularly, the Audiworld pages -- lots of mods there.

    OK, the point: the club, the dealer, the folks at the Audi driving school in Austria, are well aware of mods. One of the Audi Car Club's members was a "tuner" and he was given a special Mule S6+ car in 1997 -- it was an Audi "200" with a small block V8 engine and a whole bunch of dials and gizmos to adjust the performance of the car while it was being driven. His specialty was the "breathing" of Audi engines -- which he claimed was the cheapest and safest way to increase performance of Audis. I have not tracked down an official Audi exec to speak to the issue of mods. But, then again, there are mods and there are mods.

    My 1997 A8 with the S8 suspension and plus 0 tires and "sport air cleaner." I turned the car in, near the end of the lease (4 months to go or so) to the dealer I leased the car from and remember this was the dealer who modded it. The car barely lasted a week on the used car lot.

    My first and so far only chipped Audi, a 2000 TT was traded in 7 months after my wife leased it on a 2001 TT with the 225HP engine, ESP, and the "new" suspension system that Audi replaced the original TT suspension system with. Again, the dealer had installed the chip, and the car sold "instantly."

    The cars that I have had "aftermarket" wheels on, I traded in, as is. The 1987 5000 CS quattro had a Nak-speaker stereo system and a Blaupunkt aftermarket head unit and amp -- dealer took it in on trade, no questions asked.

    Now, I have never put anything that would generally be considered extreme or "tacky" on any of my leased cars. And, yes, IF my new allroad wheels would fit on the next car, I would probably keep them. My track record on wheels is that what will fit on a 2003 allroad, probably will not fit on the upcoming 2005 A6 TT, which could be in my future -- or perhaps an S4 will be in my future -- and probably the wheels won't "translate from one to the next."

    The dealer has been helpful across the board. As to the warranty -- there are many discussions over on audiworld -- my impression is that if something you do causes a failure -- you eat it. My fellow club member who supercharged his A4 has a radiator problem which caused overheating -- there was no provable relationship between the supercharger and the radiator -- Audi fixed it.

    The exhaust system, both because of its price and minimal effect on performance is something I would have to have some evidence (persuasive) about to seriously consider.

    I had not considered chipping to be something that I would "take out" of the car when I traded it in -- nor do I think it should be, even if it could be, hidden from the dealer.

    Indeed, as a final point, if you contact Joe Hoppen, he will direct you to the dealers he works with to install his aftermarket parts, if driving to Florida is not something you care to do.

    The car clubs seem to be teeming with folks who mod and who rely on Audi dealers for help. Like everything else, it appears that there are mod friendly and non mod friendly dealers.

    There are two BMW dealers here in Cincinnati, and one of them, also, appears to be "into" modification of his customers cars.

    Now, if I put flame decals on the car and turned it in that way, I assume I would be "dinged" big time. Wheelsand tires, a chip and possibly a valve or two, tinting the back windows (slightly), and keeping everything tasteful and "impossible" to detect unless you know what you're looking for. . .that's my motto.

    So the question remains -- anyone on this board had experience chipping his/her A6 2.7T?

    Thanks.
  • My selling dealer here in St. Paul,MN. must be one of those "non-chip" type dealers.

    The Audi service advisor stated that "any" modification to the engine would void the warranty. I don't believe this dealer does much custom work like markcincinnati mentioned about his local Audi dealer.
  • markcincinnati,

    I talked with a service tech at Carousel Audi here in Minneapolis and this guy happens to be a "chip" enthusiast on the side.

    Bob is looking for someone who might want to "chip" a 6-speed Allroad. He seems to know all about the issues and technical info concerning Audi and modifying the 2.7T.

    Bob could be e-mailed to "service@carouselautomobiles.com" Write for Bob in Audi service.
  • Even though Bob the service tech may want to do a chip upgrade on the side, he won't be the one to decide on any warranty claims made if some kind of an engine problem should develop. If he had that kind of authority, I might be interested because Carousel is where I take mine in for service (and the dealership to which I referred in the above post).
  • Bob never claimed that he decides warranty issues. In fact, he did state that adding a chip might void certain aspects of the warranty. Audi decides each issue on an individual basis.

    He is an individual who works in Audi service who happens to be an Audi enthusiast as a hobby.Bob would be a good source of info about Audi chipping, he put one in his own A4 and seemed to be happy with the results.
  • The folks on the Audiworld Forum (whom I do not know, of course) and the folks I have been to Germany with (as guests of Audi AG) in 1997, 1998, 1999, 2001 and 2002 are -- apparently -- pro modifications (and also pro keeping warranty coverage).

    Based only on this admittedly anecdotal information and personal experience, I would say that Audis -- probably because they are turbo charged (unlike BMW's and most Mercedes) -- attract owners who are pro modifications. Again based only on my own narrow experiences and conversations and readings on the various forums -- most dealers "appear" to encourage or at least condone such behavior.

    I am certain official Audi of America policy must be to at least "caution" dealers and owners of the possibilities of denied warranty claims -- especially if a direct, blatant cause and effect relationship can be gleaned. On the other hand, Audi (AG) seems to "celebrate" its owners passion for their cars -- indeed MTM and ABT are huge Audi tuning companies -- they work WITH Audi engineers. And quattro GMBH (?) is now THE high performance "division" -- of der mother company.

    Since I don't believe in common sense, I am at a loss of how to describe a "reasonable" (i.e., low risk) blanket definition of how to mod your Audi. I would say common sense modifications are very low warranty risks, if I believed in CS.

    The TT that had been modded to 350HP would not fit into that category IMO. In other words, so many things were modded to get from 225HP to 350HP that the warranty is probably at pretty high risk of NOT being honored.

    The TT or S4 or 2.7T with a relatively mild "stage 1" chip, however, probably -- I say probably -- will have no more warranty issues than a non chipped version.

    At least this has been my personal experience and the experience of many folks I have talked with and read their posts (on the web).
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,236
    by the way, that Mark has been able to achieve these on-site visits ("as guests of Audi AG")? Not that I think there's anything wrong with it. I'm just curious. Is it something that happens when you lease your 12th Audi (kind of a Baker's Dozen thing), or what?

    Clearly if I'd been wined & dined by the manufacturer of whatever car I owned (or rented), my opinion of it might be swayed.

    Or not.
  • First and foremost, it is important to become a member of the Audi Car Club of America (formerly known as the quattro club of America). Then you must sign up for the annual Audi driving school -- the event includes Munich, Ingolstadt and Seefeld (Austria).

    Audi co-sponsors the driving school -- in the form of a subsidy of the cost (of about 50%).

    The classes have to be enrolled in at least one year in advance, sometimes up to two years in advance, they are always near the end of January. You are responsible for your round trip airfare. Audi picks up your living, dining and driving costs and hosts you in the executive dining room at Audi AG for lunch with VP level execs. A factory guided tour and visits to the Audi museum, Audi boutique and Audi showcase are included in this three day program. The cost, is a peanut -- for it includes the driving school, three nites in a five star hotel and all your meals (including drinks) at a 5 star restaurant. Cost in US dollars is about $1200-1300 depending on exchange rate. It is a fantastic vacation.

    My wife and I have attended and driven in the school 4 times and have taken the plant tour 6 times and have attended and not driven with the club members once.

    We have -- one time -- been Audi's guests 100% paid for on a trip to Switzerland to attend the Women's down hill skiing events in St. Moritz. This trip included air fare, spending money and all meals including a black tie affair to thank 50 customers from all over the world for their business over the years. My wife and I have purchased over two dozen Audis -- at least two people seated at our table (also from the US) had owned 50 Audis each. Audi treats its loyal customers very well.

    The programs both paid and comp'd have, to my knowlege, no rival in the auto industry. One gentleman who was with his Audi driving wife quipped, "Mercedes just sells me the cars, they certainly don't treat me like this!" Another one said, I have purchased over 30 Fords and they won't even buy me a damn glass of beer."

    Audi, and this is ONLY MY OPINION, treats its customers better than any company I have ever dealt with -- and this is including any product or service, not just cars.

    The fact that they make among the best cars in the world is just icing on the cake from where I sit.

    One trip through the factory (which I made on my own without subsidy the first time) was enough to convice me of the quality of the cars -- and I say this to this day even though I have had my share of problems (mainly with the brake rotors). Nothing even comes close for the price (and that is an important qualifier -- "for the price.")

    There is no baker's dozen kind of thing -- I treat them like I want to be treated -- it works (for me, at least).

    And although Audi did treat me well, they did not wine and dine me and then I bought 25 cars -- I had had many Audi's for many years before I received such "fringe benefits." I kept on buying their cars, not because they wined and dined me, but because they treated me fairly and had what I considered and still consider the best bargain in the European car market. I owned one BMW a 1988 325ix which was a great car -- but it cost more to maintain it than it did in lease payments. BMW for me was my first car to have $100 oil changes -- and, my last. Audi picks up all the maintenance on my cars, since 1988 -- the same year as my last (and first) BMW. Beauty Money Wealth -- too rich for my blood and not much good on anything other than dry pavement (and remember my 325ix was all wheel drive).

    I think BMWs are great and greatly priced -- to repeat, Audi "for the money, nothing even comes close."

    Steve you seem so cynical or perhaps incredulous sometimes. I assure you that I am not affiliated with Audi in any way other than being a loyal customer. It might work for you too.

    Or not.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,236
    I wasn't born cynical.

    I got that way through experience.

    Either way, there's no doubt that Audi does a good thing here, and I'm sure others have enjoyed your description of how the system works.
  • mbnut1mbnut1 Posts: 403
    I agree with the statement that AUDI make the most car for the money. That is why an MBnut drives an AUDI.
  • This forum has explored the notion that VW is steadily moving the Audi line upmarket by introducing increasingly expensive models/options.

    Question is: What happens if Audi becomes par for price, content, image with MB, BMW, Jag? When/if this happens do "we" still buy Audis because they're Audis and no longer "excellent-cars-with-a-price-advantage" or does one more actively cross shop with BMW/MB the way one would with a Honda/Toyota?

    Anyway, just a thought.

    Nevertheless, Audi will have to make an excellent case in the form of the next generation A6 before I pay $45000 for a nicely optioned turbo 6-cylinder whereas VW offers an 8-cylinder Passat for $8000 less. I know the two cars are not an EXACT comparison, but for my purposes close enough.
  • Your profile says you're shopping for MB. I saw '03 E class drive past my apt the other day. It's a very elegant/classy design.
  • Question is: What happens if Audi becomes par for price, content, image with MB, BMW, Jag?

    If an Audi A6 costs the same as a BMW 5 series and has "generally" the same content, I would still go with the Audi because for me all wheel drive is a sufficient differentiator. MB's are still considerably more expensive, and for the time being don't enter into "my picture." Jags at the moment appear to have quality control issues, but if that issue is resolved, I would think that those who won't look at Asian or American cars might consider the Jag vs the Audi (if AWD is an issue). Audi, IMO, aims to make its products compete with its rivals: BMW (Europe) and perhaps Acura (Japan).

    With the relentless push up market up price -- well, it is not beyond the pale to believe that similar rises in price will not also occur across the BMW lineup -- thus making the Audi still a good (perhaps better) value.

    Good point about the VW -- but the W8, so says the car magazines will not continue in the next generation Passat (no room under the bonnet). Currently the W8, priced more like an Audi A4 3.0 than an A6 2.7T appears to be a bargain and a competitor for Audi's customers. Yet, read the review of the Passat in the latest Car and Driver and you may find that it is not quite enough "Audi like" for their tastes.

    Time will tell if the 2003 sport Passat W8 will further threaten the A6 2.7T -- my guess is, it will -- for many who are not THAT concerned with the IMAGE factor. Of course, VW's dealer network is notoriously spotty and some would say downright crappy. This last issue makes the Audi, for the time being, still attractive to me.

    I will of course be advising this erudite forum regarding the experiences my wife and I have with our new 2003 Audis: She a 225HP TT coupe and Me a 2.7T allroad.

    The future looks exciting.

    Have you seen the A6 TT?!? Yes, A6 and TT create a new offspring. . .the A6 TT coupe!
  • I have seen a picture of that car. Yes, it is quite stunning. Then again, when was the last time Audi brought out an ugly model? Much unlike BMW - witness the new Z4. Yikes. But that's different forum.
    Now that you mentioned it, Mark, I do recall VW saying the W8 would be short lived (should there be a hyphen, I'm never sure?). Of course, that's what they say now - maybe just to tease and titillate and gauge consumer/dealer reaction to pulling an ostensibly (I haven't driven one) capable and I daresay "affordable" car.
  • Is slated to be a 3.2L V6 -- W8 will not fit under der hood (Passat is changing from longitudinal engine placement to transverse, I believe -- and "there's the rub.") And, the Phaeton will offer the 4.2 and a W12 and the Toureg (VW SUV) also will offer the (Audi) 4.2. The 4.2 engine keeps popping up everywhere -- in normally aspirated and turbo form -- soon it will be offered as a direct injection model.

    The W12 will be in an Audi A8 and a Phaeton. A V10 diesel is also coming soon -- the W8 must've been a grand experiment. If it were me, I would have just put the 2.7T Audi engine in the current body style Passat and saved the development costs. I believe the 4.2 will not fit in a Passat, BTW.

    Didn't or doesn't Audi (VW?) have a 3.7L V8 (the first A8 I drove had one in it -- a 1997 FWD model imported for demonstration to the US market)?
  • timcartimcar Posts: 363
    I'd heard too that when there is a new Passat, it would have a transversely mounted engine. I also heard it will also no longer be based on the A4 platform. While VW has been making vastly improved cars, I have to wonder if the replacement Passat will be as appealing as the current version because of those two changes. My experience has been that longitudinal mounting improves handling and handling feel significantly, even with FWD.
  • mbnut1mbnut1 Posts: 403
    The impact on the engine orientation has been dicussed in forums in VWvortex. One notion was the transversely mounted nenge might actually handle better because the combination of FWD and Longitudial orientation requires the motor to be infront of the front wheels resultng in a very forward wieght bias. The real quesiton to me is whether they will retain the same front suspension setup which is responsible for virtually eliminating torquesteer.

    uscarguy

    I stopped by the dealer last night after dinner to show my son the new E. He began to beg me to buy the new CLK. It's front end looks way better in person than in the pictures. We both majorly drooled over the new SL.... anyway back to VW/Audis
  • Is it normal for the A/C fo make a grinding sound on the 1st fan setting? Dealer said it had to do with the high pressure freon system Audi uses. Is this a crap excuse or true. Haven't tried another dealer yet. 2 other cars on the lot made the same sound.
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