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Audi A6

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  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    And I'm thinking that would not be legal and therefore a violation of the Membership Agreement, so let's not go there, okay?
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,938
    Uh-oh!! I've been flipping those things out like hotcakes! :sick:

    j/k :blush:
  • if you short trip your Audi to death, especially in the cold weather, the 5 to 7,000 mile change will work out well.

    Yes, Marley, I completely agree with your logic.

    Here in Los Angeles, just about everything is either short trip and stop and go. Consequently that kind of use is very hard on oil, especially with the unburned fuel contamination, etc. Moreover, if one drives mainly in the city, it could take more than a year or more to put on 10,000 miles. Consequently the number of MONTHS that oil (and paper media oil filter) has been in service should also be factored in.

    I've used 5,000+ mile intervals on my Acura since I owned it, using synthetic oil, and have had no problems ever, nor burned a drop of oil. (I did dump the break-in oil at 1,000 miles) At 132,000 miles, she's still going strong. I like Mobil 1, and intend to use it in my new A6, unless I can find a shop that will use Amsoil synthetic oil 5W40. (Amsoil was a pioneer in synthetic oil development)

    A word of caution to others who plan on relying on 10,000 mile oil change intervals. Not all synthetic oils are of the same quality nor are all of the synthetic oils really synthetic.

    There are really only two (2) name brand manufacturers in the USA who are making and selling true, synthetic based, FULL synthetic oil: Mobil 1 and Amsoil. All others, including Valvoline, Penzoil, and even Castrol use a petroleum base stock (distilled from organic crude oil).

    Oils based in crude oil are subject to contamination and degradation at a greater rate than true synthetics; nor are they as clean. While these latter three oils are certainly an improvement over traditional mineral based oils, they do not afford the same benefits as do the better, true synthetics.

    As to Audi's free maintenance program, as far as I am concerned, it is there largely as a sales and marketing tool; not as a proactive program of properly scheduled automobile maintenance. Even the service manager of a very large Audi dealership told me -- when I asked him what he would do with HIS car -- that if he were planning on keeping the car beyond three years, he would definitely change the oil at 5,000 mile intervals.
  • My dealer actually just "grandfathered" us in and had a disc sent to us -- the disc was labled "replacement disc for one that would not load."

    The disc was an Audi disc, in an Audi box from Navteq -- I assume this means the dealer has some discretion in terms of helping a customer.

    Now, having said this, I would assume you would go to the dealer from which you bought this car used or not shouldn't make any difference.

    The $250, as I recall gets you 10 CD's for that model year -- when all you need is "1" ostensibly to replace a defective disc, the MOST it should cost would be the UPS shipping charge.

    No one would be copying anything and unless you know YOU personally damaged the disc, it would seem it is just defective.

    Now, if you did damage the disc, well the dealer may feel it is within his "right" to charge you. But my dealer did help me using the latitude they all seem to have.

    Worst case, you already know the maximum cost.

    Alternatives: ebay? other used source?

    Just a thought.
  • Yeah, I agree with Mark.

    Try AudiWorld as many 2003'ers may have updated their nav discs and have the old ones still around...

    OTOH, as its been nearly 3 years, a lot has changed, so you may wish to fork out the money for the latest updates from Navteq...and by the way, its $129 to buy the most current single CD direct from Navteq...
  • Did you wish to come out of lease early or they just want to grab you before you shopped around?

    Looks like a good good deal and the black is a pretty color!

    Thanks for response and enjoy that car!
  • With my experience with Audi/VW, (rounding out 6 years) I have never heard of a transmission being repaired, only replaced. Other than the CVTs in 2002, Audis traditionally have rock solid trannys (which btw, was a software issue if i am not mistaken) Do not fret and enjoy your A6.
  • Has anyone heard of improvements made in the 2006 Audi MMI?

    I was told by an Audi factory rep that several substantive changes were made in the software of the '06 model A6s, making the MMI easier and simpler to navigate. I subsequently checked with my service adviser at my local Audi dealership and they informed me that they had not heard of any changes in the 2006 MMI compared to the 2005.

    Anyone know anything about this, one way or another?
  • I just wish it would default to the "Favorites" on the radio after you start the car. It just drives me nuts to push 3 different buttons just to switch stations evertyime I get in the car. :cry:

    I can live with everything else for the most part.
  • No, I haven't heard of any changes in the MMI and I try to keep pretty up to date on the A6...

    It really doesn't need to be "simpler to navigate" as it is very intuitive already. Just the few bugs as mentioned by newaudilover...
  • It really doesn't need to be "simpler to navigate" as it is very intuitive already

    That's certainly one opinion -- one among many -- some of which would take issue with the notion that the Audi MMI is simple or intuitive. As far as I am concerned, it is neither.

    The radio presets are indeed one example of illogical, counter-intuitive design. Even 1960s era cars with AM radios allowed you a ONE button push to get your favorite radio stations. Not so on the ultra-modern, $50,000 Audi A6. That's hardly progress.
  • At start up my favorites display in the headsup display. Easy to use -
  • some of which would take issue with the notion that the Audi MMI is simple or intuitive. As far as I am concerned, it is neither.

    And yours is another single opinion. To each his/her own.

    These MMI/I-Drive computer interfaces are here to stay IMO as cars get more and more complex, we have to either put up with so many buttons and switches that our cars rival a 747 cockpit or we use a computer interface with levels of menu. The only other option is to keep the cars simple. I personally like the ability to alter options myself rather than having to go to the dealership...

    This Audi factory rep that said changes were coming...what exactly did he/she say would be changed?
  • These MMI/I-Drive computer interfaces are here to stay IMO as cars get more and more complex, we have to either put up with so many buttons and switches that our cars rival a 747 cockpit or we use a computer interface with levels of menu.

    The only other option is to keep the cars simple


    I would submit that a better option would be to use better design. The Acura RL, while far from perfect, is, in my opinion, significantly better at integrating all the various functions of the car. I think that the Infiniti M35/45 also has its attributes.

    Here's another idea: Audi hires some good Japanese designers to handle this particular element of the car.

    As to the MMI and the Audi factory rep, as my intial post explains, the factory rep told me that the 2006 model year had had updates and improvements to the MMI. She said it in the past tense, meaning that it had already been implemented.

    As I mentioned earlier, I checked with the service department at my Audi dealer and they stated that they had not heard anything about such an improvement or update. I guess that the next place to check is with someone in new car sales.
  • I noted ONE minor, but annoying, MMI issue about 6 weeks ago -- the surround sound preference doesn't stick. Further there is nothing that I can yet figure out that causes the surround pref to revert to "normal" -- sometimes it is weeks, sometimes hours between reverting from surround rear to normal, it never goes the other way, however.

    My dealer certified MMI guy tells me there is a PTF that will be distributed in "the normal course." This PTF does NOT rise to the level of a "program" (in English what we users would call a "recall.")

    The PTF will be applied in the normal course during service intervals commencing in January.

    Apparently there are several issues that are addressed, most of them "subtle." Kind of like the Microsoft service packs for WORD -- I rarely notice the difference when they are applied, but since there are several thousand software issues in MicroSoft Office and Windows XP alone, one could imagine that the MMI software is in constant development and assuming the software is capable of a so called TIMI(technology independent machine interface) as I am led to believe, there certainly could be a plethora of new functionality that even my 6 month old A6 could be programmed to unleash.

    I, for one, would like the radio/CD to come on from a cold start at a maximum sound level, rather than the sound level at which I was last listening. My 2003 allroad had a "max on" volume control, you'd think this would be a cinch for MMI. Also, how about a favorite station when my fob was detected in the car as the fob used to start the car (this would, therefore work with either keyless or keyed ignition.)

    Now, I am uncertain how or why the radio or CD seems to require so many button pushes -- perhaps I am missing something, but the MMI is very easy to use. Although, as I have noted before, if you have this car without Voice Control, well you'd better trade it in right away, since using the MMI (with 82 switches and buttons etc avail from the driver's seat) without voice control is an invitation to at least a fender bender and at most an early grave.

    If you are new to this thread and are considering an A6 with either the Premium or the Technology package (2005, 2006 models respectively), you should demand voice control -- and make it a deal breaker.

    The list price of voice is $350.

    Don't even think this car with the MMI, CD, NAV, Sat Radio, Bluetooth and or built in phone is safe to use while driving without voice command. It isn't -- at least not at any speed other than that which can be attained at idle.

    Oh, sorry.

    Yes there is a KNOWN MMI upgrade coming soon, I got carried away.

    Radio: "Radio"

    Play The Vault: "Changing to 'The Vault'"

    Navigation: "Navigation"

    Navigate to Home: "Would you like to navigate to the indicated destination?"

    Yes: "Your route is being calculated."

    Phone: "Telephone"

    Dial Number: "The number please"

    513-1212 "Five one three one two one two, please continue"

    Dial: "The number is being dialed."

    Etc etc

    Hands and eyes free commands of the Radio, CD, Navigation, Satellite and Telephone and with the Audi accessory built in phone cradle in the arm rest, the car's antenna becomes the phone's antenna and the the car's battery becomes the phone's power source. Drop outs are reduced and never ever low battery indicator is on.

    MMI and its ilk -- bring on MORE GADGETS, "I love 'em" "I'll have yours!" [sic] Monty Python.
  • My dealer certified MMI guy tells me there is a PTF that will be distributed in "the normal course." This PTF does NOT rise to the level of a "program" (in English what we users would call a "recall.")

    The PTF will be applied in the normal course during service intervals commencing in January.


    Mark:

    PTF means? Problem to fix? Is it coming out as a Technical Service Bulletin (TSB)? If so, anyway to find out the number?

    I take it that your MMI guy was not more specific on what the MMI update would expressly do?

    Thanks!

    Ps. I agree with Mark about needing Voice Control on the A6. Mine came without, and as a consequence, a lot of time must be spent looking at the MMI screen or controls, and not on the road, where we should be looking.
  • PTF is a generic term. Some companies use the term SP for Service Pack. For years, decades really, the term used by IBM (and others) was Program Temporary Fix. The reason it was temporary was simply because there were fixes released on an almost daily basis -- these fixes would often become part of the NEXT release, but in and of themselves did not merit the title of NEW (permanent) release.

    Most software companies use numbers and letters to designate "patches" to problems.

    V2 R3 (version 2 release 3) or R5 V2 (release 5 version 2).

    Some companies aren't proud and they say PTF level or SP2 -- Windows XP, for instance is the major version of the operating system but it has "updates, critical updates, service packs and eventually Microsoft will come out with Windows 2006 or Longhorn or whatever. In the old days it was just Windows 2.0, 3.0, 3.1, 3.11 -- then '98, 2000 and so on.

    MMI is "windows" for you Audi, but it is a TIMI so I am led to believe which means the software can be substantially updated without updating the actual hardware in your car. The hardware is capable of many many functions that are totally software controlled, that is.

    We'll see.

    I am certain MMI's software is undergoing development all the time. When there is an upgrade, PTF or all new, assuming the upgrade or PTF is not correcting something that is considered of CRITICAL importance, your car would be upgraded during a normal 10,000 mile interval.

    Program (recalls) are expensive and if not actually making a material change (like my DPS setting, for instance) there would be little reason to recall the car.

    There is, however, a new version (PTF) of MMI commin' -- probably there will be a new RELEASE too sometime in 2006, but that last item is pure speculation on my part.

    Now, ask me what time it is -- and I will tell you how to build a watch, sorry, occupational hazard.

    :shades:
  • When a new MMI version (not PTF) is released, I sure hope they will update the older cars as well (2005, specifically), and not make it something unique to the incoming model year cars...
  • When a new MMI version (not PTF) is released, I sure hope they will update the older cars as well (2005, specifically), and not make it something unique to the incoming model year cars...

    My concern exactly!

    I would make the argument to Audi (if they're listening) that it is in their best interest to fix (or update) the MMI so that as few customers as possible will be complaining aloud to their friends, family and other would be buyers about their frustration with that aspect of their car.

    Case in point: my Dad who is in his 70s, who is in the market for a mid-size luxury car. I know that the A6 would be the perfect car for him -- and I would recommend it to him, except for the MMI, which he could never "get" (understand). That's a lost sale, due entirely to the MMI.
    Simplify it, make it more intuitive, and Audi will remove one very real customer objection, or caveat, and pull in even more customers who might be on the fence.
  • My dealer MMI expert says that with respect to the 2006's, the MMI for it and the 2005 will always be "available" to be kept in synch.

    There may be a time when the MMI hardware won't support some functions or devices that the then current MMI software could support, but I doubt that is your concern.

    So, for the sake of argument, assume there will be several updates in the life of this MMI (through the 2007 model year perhaps?)

    What are the concerns or issues that you are having with the system. Like it or not, MMI has received, generally, positive reviews (unlike iDrive).

    Also, other than the statistic, I don't know what being 70 has to do with the enjoyment of the car. MMI, if it had some serious bugs, well that would be an issue.

    If anyone has ever used a computer or perhaps moved from DOS to Windows or MAC/Apple, etc, would certainly find these systems primitive, but my god how would you even attempt to control a car that even with MMI has 82 buttons, dials, switches, knobs and levers. And, my assumption is the features these buttons, etc control are in part what makes this an LPS car.

    So, answering carefully, knowing that I will be 55 on my next birthday, exactly what is it about the MMI (or being 70) that would make him "not get it?"

    I guess it is possible there are folks who don't use touch tone phones, ATM's, U-scan check outs at the grocery store, FAX machines, voice mail, email, credit card check outs, airline self check ins and automated post offices -- but I would suspect the number and the percentage is dwindling daily.

    Besides, with voice control (unless the person has no ability to speak -- which would be a problem), the MMI's most common functions are completely voice activated.

    The A/C isn't but that can literally be ONE rotary knob to raise and lower the temp.

    The radio can be completely controlled from the steering wheel buttons if you don't have voice (but getting this car without voice would be an act of intentional frustration, I'd wager.)

    Anyway, what is wrong (other than the inability to retain the DSP settings) with the MMI?
  • Has anyone taken their 2001 (or so) Audi past 100,000 miles? I'd be interested in hearing how that's working out. Especially from an original owner.
  • jeqqjeqq Posts: 216
    I usually don't disagree with Mark:), but I have voice and only find it useful to dial numbers that are not in my contact list or to cancel a route guidance. A major problem with voice is if other passengers in the car are talking the Audi lady gets confused. A very necessary function for voice would be to verbally input nav commands like city and street numbers. Otherwise I am never distracted using the buttons and knobs. Audi did a pretty good job with the control panel layout.

    So far three issues with my car. The door locks make weird noises when locking; once on a cold start-up my engine idled real strange, like the timing was off; and the latch that opens the arm rest is falling off.

    The good news. At 12,000 miles my car has developed amazingly better acceleration. I think the audi engineers programed the car to open up and rev higher after 12,000 miles are on the odometer.
  • Look on eBay for the DVD disks, I found an Acura one there a year or two ago for my wife's car.
  • They knew I was already shopping tons (drove every car I think). But primarily I just wanted a new car. And I love the new A6 (except my Treo Bluetooth, but that is another message)
  • I have a new 2006 A6 with all the gadgets. I have also had a Palm Treo 650 for about a year (Cingular). It 'sort of' works with the A6. There has been tons of press about Audi and Treo being made for each other. I have put in all the Treo patches. What happens is that the first time I call out from the car (from directory) it gets confused. The call often connects, but then I can't disconnect, then car says "phone may not be properly connected". BUT, if I then wait about 5 minutes, the phone reconnects on its own and then seems to work fine until I turn the car off. I have been experimenting, and it is possible that if my first call is initiated from the phone, then the car works better.

    Anyone else have this phone (Palm Treo 650 on Cingular) and a new 2006 A6?

    Doug

    PS - otherwise the car is great, but I only have 500 miles on it so far (Spends all its time at the airport parking lot). Even though it is very early, the mileage seems a bit less than my 2002 A6 2.7T. I consistently got 18mpg on that car, this one so far closer to 15.5

    D :P
  • Yea, I have had the voice get confused when other people are in the car, but then again, I have gotten confused myself when in a car and have had other people in the car distract me. I'd say "6 of one, half dozen. . . ."

    The radio -- since I do listen to AM, FM and Sirius -- would be a major pain in the butt without voice, well OK, maybe not a major pain, but a significant MINOR pain without voice.

    I want the voice to respond to city, street, number and intersection; I want the temp control to respond to auto, def, temp, etc, too.

    I would like even the seat heater for the driver to be voice commanded, etc.

    Why not add the rear window defrost too?

    And, while I am on a wish, how-a-bout start engine for pity's sake?

    Overall, despite the issues when others are in the car, voice remains even in its present state a safety feature.

    Of course, that, as usual, is just my opinion.
  • jeqqjeqq Posts: 216
    I like the idea of the rear window defroster command. When I first got the car I used to turn on the front one by mistake.
  • So, answering carefully, knowing that I will be 55 on my next birthday, exactly what is it about the MMI (or being 70) that would make him "not get it?"

    I guess it is possible there are folks who don't use touch tone phones, ATM's, U-scan check outs at the grocery store, FAX machines, voice mail, email, credit card check outs, airline self check ins and automated post offices -- but I would suspect the number and the percentage is dwindling daily.


    My Dad, who is nearly 80, does use things like ATMs and touchtone phones, but in point of fact, calls on me and his grandchildren to manage such things as programming a computer, and hooking up a combined fax machine, modem and telephone set-up. He eschews CDs and surround sound systems. Not all people embrace technology or follow the logic inherent in its operation. I know lots of people who are technology adverse and some of them are my age, early 50s. But I don't think your comparisons of ATMs to the Audi MMI is an apples to apples example. Moreover, given your IT/computer technology profession, your perspective has to be informed, and clouded, by your years of training and professional experience. You are hardly the 'average' user.

    People who have been driving cars since the 1930s are used to much simpler controls, like a radio dial that you can turn, and a fan speed button or knob mounted on the dash. Since iDrive came into existence, MMI is what, the second such system to be introduced to the automobile driving world. It will take time for people to orient and get used to it. My teenage nieces, raised with computers since childhood, might take it to it quite quickly. Well maybe. Meanwhile, there are lots of people who don't think that MMI or iDrive is swell. Here is just a sampling:

    ----------------

    Consumer Reports had these observations about the 2005 A6 MMI system:

    "ODD KNOB": The A6's MMI driver-interaction system controls audio, navigation, and various car settings such as daytime running lights. But using it is frustrating and distracting ... The gauges are spread far apart and the controls are complicated".

    "The Multi-Media Interface (MMI) driver-interaction system, which controls audio, navigation, and other settings, adds steps to what should be simple tasks. The climate system works well, but some adjustments may require a study of the manual".

    Consumer Reports added, when highlighting the 'highs' and 'lows' of the A6: LOWS: Low-speed ride; complex, nonintuitive controls; no in-dash CD slot.

    -----------------

    On the other hand, Automobile magazine noted:

    " The materials are first class, color and trim are an object lesson in good taste, the seats are comfortable and supportive, and the Multi Media Interface (MMI) system is easier to use than iDrive by BMW or Comand by Mercedes-Benz. Even so, you still have to take your eyes away from the road to activate one of the eight main menus, and MMI is still the conduit for simple tasks such as adjusting the temperature of the seat heaters or storing a radio station.

    ----------------

    Automotive.com reported:

    "Audi's Multi Media Interface, which features a large knob and some buttons on the center console, controls many of the interior functions. This eliminates a lot of switches, making for a clean-looking dash ... Mastering the MMI takes time and requires reading the owner's manual. We sometimes found it a distraction, though less so than BMW's iDrive system."

    -----------------

    Then, came C/NET, who observed of the new A6:

    "The bad: No traffic information with navigation system; Multi-Media Interface requires dedication to fully exploit"

    ------------------------

    Well, on the other hand, Edmunds said this:

    “The A6 now uses Audi's Multi Media Interface (MMI) system to control the car's various functions from one central push-and-turn knob, andlike the A8 we still find it more trouble than it's worth.”

    -----------------

    But perhaps Autoweek summed it up best:

    "Also, like its big brother, the flagship A8, the A6 comes with Audi’s Multi-Media Interface to control audio, navigation and climate control duties. While MMI is more complicated than a conventional setup, like many of the car’s owners we found it easier to use than BMW’s infamous iDrive. But one tester noted his frustration with MMI: “ These single knob/screen systems drive me nuts. Yes, MMI is simpler to use than iDrive, but that doesn’t make it good. It just makes it slightly less awful.”

    I like that last review the best!
    ;-)

    Ps. Sure, you'll find some tolerable reviews of the MMI out there, but the above quoted reviews help make my point, which is, MMI is still not where it needs to be; and to many, present company included, it's still a pain in the posterior. Indeed, as far as I am concerned, it is the only negative in what is otherwise a superlative automobile.
  • Oops, I almost forgot this one by Road and Track magazine. I want to be fair! So, here's what they said of the 2005 A6's MMI:

    "And don't get us started on the all-singing, all-dancing MMI...too late! To change the radio to a station that's not a preset, it can take as many as four separate button-pushes and knob-fiddles. This is progress (?), when a single, simian twist of a dedicated tuning knob could accomplish the same thing? To borrow a line from Charlie Brown when Lucy foils his place kick, "Aaaaargh!!"
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,306
    Now THAT (along with #5976) was a comprehensive response. In my business, we make reference to "in God we trust, all others bring data." In lieu of data, references of this sort are the next best thing.

    I dearly love my Garmin GPS, but I'm still (3 years on) learning additional features it possesses. I refuse to fool with cell phones, among other modern "conveniences," because I've watched others try to learn to most basic of commands, many of which are brand- and/or model-specific.

    I'm not a total Luddite (back when VCR's required hand-setting, my clocks were all on time), but I'm close. I prefer my near-luxury vehicles with a manual transmission, a good sound system, and not much else. The trick is finding one.
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