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Audi A6

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  • Best advice I can give you is to #1 call your agent and get a quote; #2 do a little bit of Internet surfing homework.

    There are so many variables in this -- but I do not think you will find the insurance differential "breathtakingly" expensive or inexpensive.

    See #1 and #2, best bet.
  • We were pleasantly surprised to find our insurance on 2006 A6 3.2 Quattro to be significantly less than our other 3 vehicles. Perhaps it has something to do with multiple cars and good driving record.

    However, before I bought the A6, I compared insurance on Infinity M35, BMW 530xi and Lexus GS. In general, Audi was lower due to its higher safety rating (IMHO) .
  • jp11jp11 Posts: 2
    i am considering buying a 2002 A6 3.0 (50k miles) from a private party. I would be grateful if any of you could list any problems that are associated with this model or the major reparis i would ahve tp probably incur. I am considering going for a non-CPO A6 as its going to cost me about 3500 less than a similiar CPO. Any thoughts on that?
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,111
    You must have gobs of money.

    Such a car is likely to be OK.

    If something breaks it will be breathtakiningly expensive to repair.

    Would you consider driving the car without insurance and effectively self-insuring?

    I love Audis -- but: the cost of a repair will not be cheap.

    I understand you want to save money and at 50K, it would seem the car ought to qualify for a CPO'ing from an Audi dealer. Are you suggesting that do to so would cost this particular car's price PLUS $3500 for this very car?
  • jp11jp11 Posts: 2
    well, i was thnking that a similiar 2002 a6 with CPO would be warrantied until 2008 and between now and 2008 if i am not likely to spend 3500 in repairs, i would save by opting for a non-CPO car. Am i making a mistake in think so? Please let know asap.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,111
    Beats me -- for $3,500 I might be tempted to chance it BUT ONLY after a full PAID (by you) inspection and all filters and fluids changed and things that can be lubed, lubed.

    My dealer said CPO'ing is $1,295. I'd probably spend that much, FWIW.

    What is it about this particular car that has motivated you to move so quickly? :confuse:

    BTW, I liked this year since the engine @ 3.0 was a good improvement over the 2.8 and the rotors were, apparently, made of stouter stuff than the 2000 - 2001 MY's.

    My 2001 A6 ate rotors, but they were all fixed for free.

    My 2003 allroad was fine in that respect.
  • rwolffrwolff Posts: 19
    I recently found a 2000 A6 4.2 with 106,000 miles in mint condition and which has been maintained in excellent condition inside and out. The price is 12500. Any comments on the reliabilty, etc and what to expect. The car seems to be a creampuff to me and has all the dealer maitainence records. Would love to hear any thoughts of whether the car is worth it. Thanks.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Are you handy with cars? Are you capable of doing your own maintenance and most repairs? If so then maybe this car would be a good deal.

    On the other hand, if you are going to rely on someone else to work on the car for you I would A) find a good independent German/Audi mechanic and B) I would set aside several thousand dollars for the inevitable maintenance that that car will need sooner or later.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • rwolffrwolff Posts: 19
    Thanks for the comments. I would have to rely on a mechanic who works on German cars for any maintenance, etc., which I know can be very costly. It's certainly a risk buying this car. The price is down to 12,000 which is still a bit more than I want to spend on it. Anybody else want to weigh in and give their opinions on whether or not they would go ahead with this 2000 A6 4.2 Sports package w/ 106K miles. Thanks.
  • I am trying to decide between the 2006 Audi 4.2L and the BMW 550i. I really like the way the 550i drives but I am really put-off by the interior build quality. I really like the A6 AWD (Chicago winters) and the refined sophisticated interior. So I sum up my decision between the utilitarian appointed driving excitement vs. the more refined less athletic. Opinions? Recommendations? Help!! :) Thanks in advance.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,111
    Would the A6 in question be an S-Line model?
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,938
    Huh? :confuse: What's wrong with the interior build quality of the 550i? I would definitely call the A6 interior clean and simple, but certainly not "sophisticated."

    The A6 4.2 was on the top of my list just over a year ago. But that was when I was still very much anti-BMW. Maybe, not so much "anti-BMW" as just indifferent to BMW. At the time, there were many other brands I would buy over a BMW (luxury and non-luxury brands). Now, not so much. At the current time, as much as I like the A6 4.2, I'd buy a 550i first; however for the money, I'd buy an A6 4.2 over a 545i. The 360HP of the 550i just simply can't be ignored or denied, though. ;)

    I've driven just about everything in the class: 550i, E500 (and E55), GS430, A6 4.2, and Acura RL. As you can tell, I'm a shameless sucker for a V8, so the RL had the odds severely stacked against it. Then when you add in the interior space deficit...

    But, I digress. You're inquiring about the A6 4.2 and the 550i. Both fine automobiles. Both can be (somewhat) stunning in the right color combinations. Both can be as bland as anything on the road in the wrong color combinations; silver on gray comes to mind. You need to objectively consider the real benefits of AWD over RWD. Does snow/ice occur in a sufficient enough intervals/amounts to justify AWD? How important is performance to you? I don't think I've ever read a piece of print that stated a non-premium performance (S/RS) Audi outperformed a comparable BMW. So AWD clearly has no advantage over RWD in the dry on typical roads.

    I'd go for the 550i, but I can't imagine you'd be disappointed with either one. JMHO
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,111
    I have no issue with the "build quality" of the BMW's interior. However, to my eye (and the eye of those who get paid to write this stuff), the Bimmer's interior is often called "stark."

    The Audi interior (quoting Car and Driver) "leaves the other's on the trailer."

    Audi may have its flaws -- about the only thing that Audi seems to be universally acclaimed for is having "the best interiors in the business."

    Despite all thie "compelling" evidence -- it still is subjective, largely. The MMI is easier to use than i-Drive, but these systems remind me a lot of Windows 2.0, better than the first iteration but still sometimes complicated for, uh, er, the sake of complication.

    Why push one button when you can push a button, turn a knob and depress the select knob? :confuse:

    Thank Hans and Franze for voice command is all I can say.

    But of course the comment "AWD clearly has no advantage over RWD in the dry on typical roads" is worth responding to -- especialy since we are in an Audi A6 forum.

    The following information (in the next posting) is NOT from Audi.

    Of course, Audi can be forgiven, one would assume, for "borrowing" heavily from the spirit of what is written below.

    Dozens of technical articles are also available that fundamentally suggest that from a control, performance and safety aspect, AWD will soon dominate (speaking of consumer acceptance as measured by demand) not just at the "race track" but on the street. If I am to believe my BMW dealer, the 5 series is already selling 60% RWD and 40% AWD (and the AWD is inventory limited.) Of course the 3 series is still about 85% RWD and 15% AWD, but theoretically that is ramping up too (X-drive 3's that is.)

    Obviously at least 80% of the Audis sold in this country are AWD and the Infiniti dealer (who also owns the Audi and Acura franchise, says that the M35X is the #1 seller and that the G35X continues to climb in popularity.)

    This may be a hangover effect of an SUV culture -- or, as discussed below, it may be because AWD "rules" the road.

    Hope you find this thought provoking if nothing else:

    Please go to the next posting. Thanks. :shades:
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,111
    Rear wheel drive cars

    This type of car used to dominate the market until the early 80s. Then came a switch to FWD and once again RWD seems to again prevail [in the US] -- but they do so for reasons that have nothing to do with sporty driving.

    In these cars the rear wheels are driven by the engine. This allows for a better mass distribution inducing less inertia and polar moment. Generally the engine is mounted in a longitudinal position further favoring mass distribution. Some of these cars, such as the Porsche 924, 944, 968 and the 1980's Alfa Romeo GTV and GTV6 had the gear box mounted on the rear axle to further improve mass distribution. Most BMWs and Mercedes-Benz cars are rear wheel drive cars, mainly for old times sake. Increasingly a significant minority of BMW's and Mercedes-Benz cars are all wheel drive cars. Many believe that in the not too distant future 2WD cars will be in the minority except in economy class automobiles.

    Rear wheel drive cars have a natural tendency to oversteer. When one of these cars enters a corner fast (with the gas pedal down) its rear wheels will lose traction (will have a tendency to spin) and the centrifugal force the car is subject to combined with the reduced friction coefficient to the rear wheels will lead their rear end off the curve. Releasing the gas pedal in these circumstances or, worse, braking will almost certainly lead the car off its ideal trajectory into oversteer. In fact what the driver has to do when a rear wheel drive car oversteers is in opposition to a "natural" driver's reaction.

    The driver has to countersteer, i.e., turn the steering wheel to the opposite side of the turn and goose the gas pedal in order to avoid sudden weight transfers to the front axle that would result in terminal oversteer. This road holding characteristic, although spectacular, is very far from being efficient.

    Oversteer

    You may note that rear wheel drive cars are much more fun to drive than front wheel drive cars are. Their oversteering character can be usually easily modulated by "goosing" the gas pedal. Rear wheel drive vehicles, especially the most powerful ones, tend to "surprise" inexperienced drivers.

    An extreme example of rear wheel drive car is the Porsche 911 series. In these cars not only is the power applied to the rear wheels but the engine is also mounted at the rear of the car in an overhang position (behind the rear wheels axle). The Porsche 911 series has been known as very difficult to drive at the limit since, when cornered, the polar moment induced by the overhanging engine will easily have the car spinning around its vertical axis.

    The progressive elimination of this breed of car is due to the higher manufacturing costs they induce. Additionally the oversteering they generate is sometimes excessive and can lead to a total loss of control of the vehicle that may lead to law suits against manufacturers.

    All wheel drive cars

    The road holding characteristics of these cars are a bit more complex [than FWD or RWD versions]. They usually display a combination of both oversteering and understeering road holding characteristics and are very far from being neutral. Usually full time 4 wheel drive [AWD] cars are based on a front or rear wheel drive version of the same model. This fact greatly influences their handling, i.e., cars that are based on rear wheel drive models will initially display a more oversteering type of handling whereas cars that are based on front wheel drive models will initially display an understeering type of handling. The above description is just a rule of thumb however and, depending on the engine output, weight and torque distribution, one or the other type of handling may prevail.

    Generally this type of vehicle changes its handling characteristics while in a corner. The car has a tendency to understeer when entering the corner and oversteer when exiting. The driver can modulate this characteristic by using the throttle and brake pedals in a way to induce a neutral type of handling. Like in the case of front wheel drive cars the driver has to "brake late" when entering the corner, to operate a weigh transfer, and push the gas pedal while inside the corner in order to allow a "torque transfer" to the rear wheels. If there is an impending loss of front traction (oversteer) or spin, it is detected by the center differential which will progressively lock and bias engine torque sending the excess torque to the rear wheels thus inducing oversteer.

    Most people have the wrong impression that 4WD is only useful on slippery roads and conditions. The best argument against this impression is to drive all three types of vehicle (front or rear wheel or all wheel drive) on a dry tortuous road. In the first tight corner try extracting the car at the limit of its tires' grip and see what happens. Wheel spin is simply unavoidable.

    A front wheel drive car will have its inside wheel spinning and will almost stall in the absence of a self locking differential.

    The only choice left to its driver is to lift off.

    A rear wheel drive car will also have its inside wheel spinning and will get into oversteer. In the absence of a self locking differential the driver, apart from counter-steering,  will have to ease on the gas pedal if he is to avoid exiting the road.

    A full time 4 wheel drive car [e.g., an Audi w/TorSen] can negotiate the same corner with the gas pedal almost floored.

    Although full time 4 wheel drive cars are not as much "fun" to drive as are rear wheel drive ones they are so much faster and efficient than the other types that unless one drives them he is unable to imagine the cornering speeds 4wd cars are able to reach safely.

    The major drawbacks of 4wd cars when compared with their 2wd counterparts are:

    Increased mechanical complexity affecting their price, weight and reliability;

    Higher mechanical losses (friction) due to the number of gears to drive (differentials, axles, driveshafts, ...);

    In turbocharged versions the famous "turbo lag" effect which forces the driver to anticipate the car's reactions;

    The, sometimes, sudden character of  the transition from understeer to oversteer mid-corner;

    As you might have guessed these cars are a lot more demanding when driven to the limit, but generally their limits are higher. A certain familiarization time is necessary for a novice before he can master and anticipate the car's reactions.

    We can only anticipate the progressive appearance of all wheel drive models from many manufacturer's' lineups (it began in earnest in the last 15 months.) The days when a car enthusiast can opt for this breed are just beginning.

    Of course, don't get me started on how Audi squandered its lead in this area, by benign neglect, no less!

    :surprise:
  • Yes - am looking at a fully loaded 2006 A6 including S line.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,111
    Then, all things considered, the Audi is the "optimum" or best choice --

    If you were looking for the "maximum" single purpose or several purposes car and that or those purposes was/were to be the quickest, fastest and most nimble on the track, etc, possibly/probably the BMW would be the better choice.

    You will be driving this, I gather, NOT on the closed course circuits where all cars are going in the same direction and your puprose is to win a race. Rather, you will be driving this on the "streets of our lives."

    Well, you know how I feel.

    The 4.2 plus the AWD plus the S-Line makes this a no brainer.

    Please note the tires that will come on this car will most likely be UHP summer tires. Were I you, unless you are willing to change your wheels/tires for winter, I would see if I could get UHP A/S tires as part of the deal before mile one is put on the UHP summer tires.

    Drive it like you live. :shades:
  • Thank you Markcininnati!
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,111
    You are welcome.

    Note and please note well, I am urging you to see if you can have the car fitted with Ultra High Performance All Season 18" tires on the SLine wheels.

    It is my belief they will try to put High Performance All Season 18" tires on the SLine wheels and tell you "same difference."

    Nah baby nah!

    Doh! :surprise:
  • legendmanlegendman Posts: 362
    "I would definitely call the A6 interior clean and simple, but certainly not "sophisticated."

    What interior would you consider more sophisticated?

    What about elegant or refined? Would you allow that?
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,111
    Granted, I am THE carrier of the flag that what we say here is 99% subjective, I will respond: there may be rivals in the $50,000 class, but nowhere have I seen anyone who actually does this stuff for a living proclaim any interior more sophisticated.

    Frankly, I can't remember any reviews that said the so and so interior as "as sophisticated" (as the A6's or many of the Audi products, generally speaking.)

    Often, even Audi's detractors will use the Audi interior as "the benchmark" when they are describing someone else's interiors.

    Although probably passe now, Audis interiors were often called when the phrases were NOT passe, "jewel like" or the controls were compared with the switches found on high-end ultra expensive audio equipment.

    Audi seats have been called "comfy chairs" and "perfect sport seats."

    Audi has received over the past 25 years a lot of left handed compliments and outright "close but no cigar" comments about its cars overall. Rarely, if ever, have Audi interiors received anything but the highest accolades.

    Like I said, Car and Driver simply says, "Audi interiors leave the other guys on the trailer."

    Now this should not be meant as a suggesting that BMW interiors are built poorly or use second rate materials.

    I think what I am quoting and what we are discussing is "design, style" and perhaps even "ergonomics."

    And elegant AND refined are often descriptive phrases used by those who receive income from writing about such things.

    Not that earning income from writing about cars alone is a sign of infallibility -- but most of us don't see that many different cars, I know I have probably seen about 6 or 7 up close and personal, for instance.

    So, while I may feel that Audis have been beaten up on for many years for often good reason, I do not see issues with their loyalty and expertise to AWD nor do I see any reason to proclaim their interior designers to be any less than at the top of their game and at the top of "the" game now.

    Tomorrow, is another day, however.

    We'll see what we'll see.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,938
    What interior would you consider more sophisticated?

    In the A6's price range? Hold on to your hats! I would say the new RL's interior is more sophisticated. Not BETTER, just more sophisticated, if diminutive.

    What about elegant or refined? Would you allow that?

    Absolutely! ;) That part is undeniable.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,938
    Nah baby nah!

    Mark, didn't you once say you are 54? It's very difficult imagining a 54 year old saying that! :P That is, if you're saying it in the manner that I'm thinking; with punctuation and emphasis, "Naah, baby, naaaaah!"
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,111
    Just call me Bill Cunningham of "The Nation's Station."

    And that's a full report.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,583
    I think it is at least worth pointing out here that the Audi is less quick (as opposed to slow) in acceleration compared to the BMW and some other $50K to $60K (-ish) sport sedans.

    The numbers published in the C+D comparison show the A6 4.2 with 0-60: 6.4 and the Quarter in 14.9 at 97 mph. The M45 Sport tested in the same comparison (for example) posted 5.5 and 14.2 at 100. The BMW in that test was the 530i (due to price) and not the 545. I have seen no 550i independent tests so far, but the C+D test shows 5.5 and 14.1 at 103, and R&T (not always directly comparable numbers, I know) tested the 545i and M45 Sport and posted 0-60 of 5.2 and 13.7 at 104 in the Quarter for the 545i.

    I mention these numbers not to suggest that (any set of) numbers fully define a sport sedan, but rather to point out that the differences here are likely sufficient to be felt by those addicted to acceleration. ( Guilty as charged, here. )

    And the 550i would almost certainly test even quicker.

    A half second or a second may not sound like much, but in the context of the 2 most often quoted ‘standards’ for acceleration ( 0-60 and Quarter Mile ) my ‘butt dyno’ can feel that level of difference in WOT acceleration. One may rarely run 0-60 mph flat out on public roads – and given the terminal velocities of these sedans, a blast of a Quarter Mile would be tempting fate. But I do find that these numbers are typically a good indicator of how a vehicle will feel (to me) and how it will perform in highway merge and back road passing situations.

    And again (always) I am certainly not suggesting that one not consider the A6 4.2 for this reason, just that in the pure (clear, dry road) acceleration department, others are more capable.

    - Ray
    Still missing the RS6 . .
  • bpaubpau Posts: 20
    I finally got the call the my order was in. Picked it on Saturday. All I can say is "I'm in Luv!" :P It was sitting in delivery as I pulled into the dealership. I almost ran into something as it caught my eye. The color was worth the wait. I live on the east cost about an hour from Atlantic City. Went down that night and it felt like I was gliding on the road. What a wonderful drive. I'm glad I didn't get the 4.2...I'm sure I would accumulate many speeding ticket's if I had. I was doing 80 and it felt like 55/60. :shades:

    Bpau
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,583
    Since there is not an S6 forum, I'll note here that there has been information released.
    Since I cannot post the source where I happened to see it (they have forums), I can only suggest a google search.
    (sigh)
    Looks v. fast - and v. expensive.
    - Ray
    Still lusting after that RS6 . . .
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Please post it. ;)

    The Membership Agreement has changed quite a bit. It now contains this paragraph:

    Including a link in a Posting to another Web site is permissible when appropriate in the context of answering a question posed by another Member, but not for the purpose of promoting other automotive communities or third-party services or products. The Hosts will remove any link they believe does not provide value to visitors.
  • dan339gdan339g Posts: 56
    "Good things come to those who wait"...best of luck with the new vehicle.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,938
    Please post it.

    The Membership Agreement has changed quite a bit. It now contains this paragraph:

    Including a link in a Posting to another Web site is permissible when appropriate in the context of answering a question posed by another Member, but not for the purpose of promoting other automotive communities or third-party services or products. The Hosts will remove any link they believe does not provide value to visitors.


    Sweet! We're free! I feel so liberated; as if shackles have been loosed from my wrists! ;) :D :shades: Really, I do.
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