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Audi A6



  • johnejohne Posts: 17
    I usually prepay miles on my leases up to 18K annually, and then the overage above 18k when I go over. This increases the lease payment something like $.20/mile, or $50.00 per month.

    I think where you can do well with a lease is when they overestimate the residual. Then you essentially do not take the hit on the value at lease end; the leasing company does. However, if market value is more than the residual, then you can buy the car and keep or sell it.

    My 3 series, for example, on a 36-month lease, had a 58% of MSRP residual. I'm guessing that most American cars' residuals are less than 50% on a 36-month lease so the payments relative to the purchase price are higher.

    The relatively higher residuals (reflecting how they hold their value) on German cars (and particlarly BMW) keep the payments down versus American cars.

    Disadvantage of a lease is less flexibility and if you try to get out early the payoff is (almost?) always less than value because of little if any down payment and the initial hit on on value of new cars when they go off of the lot.

    Drove a 530i. Nice car. Can't handle the styling. BMW is a performance car, but "conservative"...this is too much of a departure for me. Actually considered getting a used 03' 530i instead of an 04' before ordering an 05' A6.

    Drove a G35. Too small but really fun to drive. FAST. Interior a bit cheesy. New M35 should be great if the G35 is any indication.

    I've heard similar complaints about quality of new MB's...the local sales guy for BMW/MB suggested a 530i because of that.

    I understand from one article that Audi is "targeting" BMW (high-performance, luxury) more than MB and hired a lead engineer from BMW to improve the handling (I'm sure that was an Audi press release!!). My sense is that the A6"s handling and ride is drastically improved. Firmer (but not too firm) is better in my the handling and ride of my 330i.
  • boomsamaboomsama Posts: 362
    Both videos were released months ago.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,476
    " usually prepay miles on my leases up to 18K annually, and then the overage above 18k when I go over. This increases the lease payment something like $.20/mile, or $50.00 per month."

    Hmmmm . . .
    Is pre-payment / paying per month less $$ per mile than paying overage at lease end?
    - Ray
    Considering leasing, when the time comes . . .
  • Since 1977 -- my first Audi lease -- probably about 12 of the 27 Audis we have had were "early outed" with assistance from Audi Financial (known as V-Crest -- or VW Financial or VW Credit for several years before Audi Financial became a sep entity). My wife early outed from a 2000 TT (24 month lease, and they wiped the slate clean after 7 months so she could get a 2001 TT 225HP with the suspension mods, ESP and the spoiler.) I early outed from my 1995 S6 for a 1997 A8 with assistance from Audi.

    My 2000 A6 4.2 (on a 27 month lease) was early outed for a 2001 A6 4.2 after 16 months.

    Finally, my 2001 A6 4.2 had a 30 month lease and Audi made the first payment for me.

    I missed out on the 12 months lease termination deal last year, but at that time I had had my 2003 allroad for less than 18 months on a 36 month lease, ditto my wife on her 2003 TT 225HP coupe.

    The deals may not move forward -- who knows what will happen. However, the economy will certainly effect these offerings in a predictable cyclical fashion (who knows, right now we may be at the beginning or end of a new round of incentives). Let's see where we are in October of this year.
  • I hope this remains true -- I have always purchased the 15,000/mile/year lease products. I have often run over the lease miles; they have "always" been forgiven when I trade the car in on yet another Audi product and keep the leasing transaction through Audi Financial.

    I assume there could be a day of reckoning -- I rarely go more than 18K miles annually and, thus far, based on my experience, there would be zero benefit to prepaying milage.

    This should not be taken in any way as an endorsement to or not to prepay miles. In response to the question, however, it would seem to be prudent to prepay ONLY if the prepay amount was less than the end of term amount.

    So if the contract says end of term amount is $.20 per mile, I would expect the prepay amount to be AT LEAST $.02 less ($.18) per mile or "why bother?"

    I don't know this for a fact, but what would it hurt if you tried to negotiate the cents per mile up front? The worst they could say is "no!" I mean, they certainly would not charge more than the lease contract amount just for asking for a discount.

    Just a thought.
  • jeqqjeqq Posts: 216
    If you don't mind me asking. Did audi always take you out early without penalties?
    In 2000 or '01, I tried to switch out of a '99 A6 2.8 into a 2.7 and they were talking big dollars due to depreciation. I only spoke with the dealer, and did not pursue it further. Maybe I should have spoken with audi financial?
  • I don't mind you asking at all.

    Here is the thing about the "early outs" -- dealer "contribution" may effect your results. So, the answer to your question is, I'm not entirely sure how to differentiate between the "contribution" made by Audi financial and my dealer.

    Here is one that I do know: the 2000 TT. We ordered a 2000 TT (from the date of our $250 deposit until we actually got the car 14 months lapsed.)

    The car that came in was a 2000 180HP quattro TT with, at the time, all options plus Metallic Black paint. We had been travelling extensively to Munich on pleasure and had been to Ingolstadt some 6 times alone and with the then named quattro club of America and we had seen the 225HP ESP equipped versions of the TT (and these versions had a different suspension calibration and a rear deck-lid spoiler -- and larger wheels and tires than the first TT we owned). Almost at the moment we acquired the 2000 TT we ordered a 2001 model.

    We leased the 2000 with a 24 month lease. About 7 months into the lease, the 2001 came in. We were, so said the dealer, in need of $1,000 to make up for some "minus equity."

    I went to the dealer principal and "asked" -- I did not play Hardball, I simply asked if we could get into the new TT without any up front money.

    The dealer said he would take an extra $1,000 off of the price we had agreed to previously and call it square. Our new lease term was 30 months (and we went 27 months with that). We had no sec dep to pay and walked out of our 2000 lease without any upside down penalty (but there could have been one).

    In this case, the demand for TT's was so high that he immediately had a buyer for the 2000 TT and although he probably could've sold our 2001 TT at MSRP, he made the decision to "knock off" $1,000 for a long-term repeat Audi buyer.

    We have purchased 27 Audis from the same dealership.

    So the answer is, that sometimes there have been "penalties" but that the dealer has generally made deals that wiped these out or was able to structure deals so that we could avail ourselves of every possible Loyalty Bonus from Audi Financial.

    For all I know, I have paid too much in terms of my lease payments -- but the point remains that my wife and I have been, in our minds and in our wallets, treated fairly, indeed often generously. We have been very "loyal" to Audi and they have returned the "favor" by showing often extreme accommodation with respect to lease term and early outing.

    I have even tried only to find that the dealer was able to have the same effect (i.e., outing me early) without keeping my name on the lease note.

    Lots of folks here and elsewhere dis cars (not just Audis) that do not have the reliability reputations of Acura and Lexus (to name two). I am, in part due to such "dis-ing," planning on expanding my population of cars under consideration to include the new 2005 Acura RL and perhaps even the new Lexus GS in addition to -- "just for fun" -- the Chrysler 300C AWD when it comes out in a couple of months. However, despite my more "open mind" insofar as considering these other marquis is concerned, Audi as a "vendor" and partner has done nothing but try to keep me loyal to them. I have seldom seen or heard of any car company that goes to the lengths that Audi goes to, to keep its customers happy.

    I may not end up, this time, with a new A4 or A6, but whoever earns my business, will certainly have to demonstrate "something" that convinces me to leave the "warm and fuzzy" feeling that Audi and its local dealership has provided since I leased my first Audi in 1977, a 1978 Audi 5000.

    Twenty-six Audis later, I can attest that while hardly perfect, the reliability issue often discussed with respect to Audi is mostly bark and very little bite.

    But who knows, perhaps Audi has sent me 27 "ringers" and I don't know what I'm talking about, since I've been protected from the reality of the highly unreliable Audi cars so many people go on about.

    But I don't think so.
  • ctorreyctorrey Posts: 64
    triumphbobk -

    How well did you do with the S60R relative to invoice? Along with A4/A6/S4, I am considering the Volvo as well. I heard you can get VERY good deals on these things.
  • Tonight, I visted the $6,000,000 mini-Ingolstadt grand opening and "show" of the new A6. Our long-term Audi dealer (first car purchased there in 1977) just built a stand-alone dealership and Audi showcased their new A6 (a 2005 4.2) to the select client list that this dealership has developed over the years.

    Our long term sales rep said that there is NO deal better than on a new 2004 SLine A6. He said that an A4 and the Sline A6 will price out the same and that literally EVERY other Audi product he can sell today will cost more. He went so far as to say it is hard to imagine a nearly $50K car being called a bargain, but that it what it amounts to.


    BTW the 2005 A6 which we could NOT drive, was very impressive. The sales rep commented that the A6 4.2 compared to the SWB A8 would be a tough sell for the A8, the new A6 was THAT impressive.

    Now, having said that, I would HOPE that there would be reasons that the SWB A8 (with the same V8 engine) would be worth extra bucks over a fully loaded A6 -- but if you took 5" off of the A8L it seems like you would be hard pressed to pay an extra $7 or $8 or more grand over the A6 with the V8.

    Not having driven them, I am not suggesting anything other than the superficial conclusions of course.
  • eduardoeduardo Posts: 2
    Are these the MSRP's? What would be a realistic offer to the dealers (if this is MSRP)? Would asking for invoice be too much for a new model?
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,476
    "BTW the 2005 A6 which we could NOT drive, was very impressive."

    Mark -

    If / when you have time, I would be interested in any other specific observations RE: the new A6.

    It looks like the same sort of event (IE: 1 US spec A6 - look, but don't drive) will be held at my local dealer - in about a month.

    And - have you driven a SWB A8?
    - Ray
    Eagerly awaiting viewings of several '05 models . . .
  • ctorrey -

    The dealer was very motivated to sell as they had it for almost a year. It had less than 5000 miles and I paid under 35k ($10k off MSRP). I was originally looking for an off-lease A6 w/~30k miles and test drove new and used A6s and even a 2001 S4 (very nice, but $28k), but at this price for a loaded S60R with low miles it was a no brainer. It's not your old man's Volvo - definately worth a test drive. Only downsides - back seat legroom and large turning radius (~21'). The new Rs are coming out soon so it's a good time to take one of these year old ones off their hands.
  • ksomanksoman Posts: 590
    I am getting a free handout... literally! Somebody in the family is selling their A6 (single owner, 95 or 96, 105K Quattro). When I asked just out of curiousity, they offered to give it to me free, only thing being, I've to drive it cross country or have it picked up. I know they were planning to sell it in the 6-8K range.

    Should I get it or pass?
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Would you enjoy the cross-country drive? For free, what do you have to lose! :-)

    And it's not that hard to get a car included on someone else's moving van if you don't want to make the drive. If you get it and at some point decide it was a mistake, you can sell it yourself or give it to a charity.
  • johnejohne Posts: 17
    Haven't tried to get out of a lease early, but my guess is the amount a lessee is "upside down" gets rolled into the new purchase price/lease payment somehow. The better the car holds value, the less "upside down" a lessee would be. Also, less likely to be so upside down towards the end of the lease term.

    On my current car, the prepaid miles are at $.20/mile and the miles (over allotted miles) cost $.25/mile at lease end...thus the answer to the inferred time value of money questions above. Also, BMW credit will pay you back for unused miles at lease end if you do prepay them. It still doesn't make sense to oversubscibe because then the lessor has your money for "free" for the lease term.

    I don't know what Audi's pricing is in prepaid versus lease-end miles but it wouldn't make sense (other than for budgeting purposes, perhaps) to prepay miles at the same rate/mile at which you would have to pay the overage later. If they're the same...then do a 10k mile lease and write a big check or roll into a payment on a new car at lease end.
  • ksomanksoman Posts: 590
    i do love cross country drives, done it many time and thoroughly enjoyed each one of them, whether rushed or not.... the question is, am i buying myself a white elephant that will kill me on maintenance.... i'm otherwise really looking to buy a brand new car, something like the upcoming RL...
  • hjcanterhjcanter Posts: 31
    You mention that the "leasor" has your money for "free" for the lease of the term. If you KNOW, and that is a key word, that you are going to go over your miles, you are better off to get them at $.20. You are saving 20% from the end cost or another way would be your cost would increase by 25%! Unless you are a great investor, you will not beat that return in the short run. We all must pay the piper some day!Just my observation.
  • Definitely pass. Just tell me where I can pick it up :)
  • I wish I could tell you how the new A6 4.2 quattro drove -- no one was allowed to drive it that night.

    The sales people did have some wheel time, and my long term sales rep said it was a Not too mini-A8, perhaps almost an A8 SWB.

    I cannot comment on anything pertaining to the driving dynamics.

    All that you have heard and read about the car looking different in person, is fundamentally true. The trout mouth effect is in 2D only, in the flesh, so to speak, the car looks well proportioned and the snout does not stick out, IMHO.

    Having said that, the interior is another Audi Jewel, the fit and finish overall are of course darn near perfect -- in fact I could find zero flaws in this Euro spec'd (but apparently fully loaded) A6 4.2. The sound system is much improved over the current gen, but I could not test the Sat Radio and the DVD navi was totally European, so I programmed it for Verona Italy, but since we were parked inside, I could not tell how the system responded except to say the MMI was easier than anything MicroSoft or Apple has ever dreamed of in terms of ease of use.

    I cannot comment on iDrive, so I am NOT saying anything that could be taken as a comparison. The mixture of knobs and software switches seemed virtually intuitive. So I will just leave the comments at that.

    The trunk opening appears smallish, but the thing certainly appears as if it could swallow a lot of luggage, golf bags and perhaps other odd sized stuff -- but it is not to be confused with any sport ute in this regard. The trunk space is, in a word, ample!

    The switchgear is all totally high zoot, soft and damped, the windows go up and down silently and swiftly. The dash appears easy to read and I didn't have to ask where any control was or what any switch or dial or gizmo was, it was so easy to figure out.

    The 18" wheels and 255 wide tires on 40 aspect ratio tires looked purposeful and the seats, sport seats in this model, were comfortable and supportive, some with wider bums may prefer the comfort seats -- I have never had any issue with either, the side bolsters are there for a purpose, but it is so seldom anymore that I get into a situation where I need to be held in place while I negotiate that last S turn around the track -- I275 has so few curves that is.

    This model did not have the air suspension but I suspect it did have the sport (slightly lower) suspension.

    I saw the official order guides for both engines -- and a sport package is on both. All packages or options are available on both cars, apparently the biggie is that the 3.2 cannot be had with a power steering column but the 4.2 will have it.

    Further, some options on the 3.2 are standard in the 4.2.

    The price will be "base" at $40 until January then it will go up by $3K. The Premium pack is exactly $3K so I posed the question, will ANY come without Premium pack, and the answer was ONLY if ordered without it by a specific customer.

    I posed the question and go no answer "well, then, is the $3K uplift in price implying that the car will come with the so called Premium Package" as standard in 2005 (January forward)?"

    The sales rep said that would not be an unreasonable approach, but that some people would be a little miffed if they "fell for 'false' price increase" after 3 months.

    Impressive, spacious, but, typical Audi -- understated. The car, although certainly a Premium Class Car appears to be more sporting than lux oriented, more for the driver -- this is probably what they intended, since their stated target is BMW not Mercedes.

    I don't yet know how this compares or will compare with a similar sit but not drive in a new Acura RL.

    I didn't put my name on the list -- I am certain that like every other HOTTIE, the price will soften within a few months after the arrival of the first cars.

    Too many times, I have "been the first on my block" to get the new Audi only to find those that followed 4 or 5 months later got more features and a better deal (late arrival features or delayed introduction functions and features especially in the first gen kind of thing).

    I can place my order in early '05 and probably get XACTLY what I want -- and, who knows, if inventory is what they say it will be (150 cars) I may be able to get what I want without ordering -- now that will be a first!

    Overall, with the qualifier "no test drive" I was impressed.

    Now let's see what the Acura has up its sleeve!

  • . . .btw, a fully loaded A6 3.2 can be configured with all options except sport seats and uprated leather for $51,550. Assuming a modest disount, I would venture that the car will be about $48,550 street price. This may or may not sway anyone to do anything if they are Audi lovers or bashers -- but the rumors, apparently of sky high prices are just that. So configured, and using LIST PRICE, this new A6 would be little more than a current model 2.7T S-Line and have, to my eye, more features or better features. Apples to apples the new A6 seems to be about the same bucks as the outgoing S-Line (at MSRP, not at the current deep discounts off MSRP).

    Haven't figured out the comparo with the 4.2, but I suspect this will hold true.

    Seems like the feared rapid rise in MSRP hasn't happened.

    This is a good thing, eh?
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