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Audi A6

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  • My car had the same MSRP as yours, $45,175. The invoice on that car is $40,374.

    The invoice has nothing to do with the final lease price, other than that it provides you with a basis for negotiating a good sales price (which will be the base for your net cap cost). In my case, the negotiated sales price was in the mid 41ks.

    Net cap cost is the sales price (not the invoice) +/- any taxes or payments.

    I got a 48 month lease (12K miles per year) so that the lease would coincide with the warrantee. Your salesman is pushing 39 months because that is the current Audi deal. If, however, you extend it to 48 months you'll save about $40/month. Salesman (in spite of what they will tell you), know very little about leasing.

    Think of it this way. You know the lease equation. Now, think about what will make your payments go up or down. If your lease term increases, while your residual stays about the same, your monthly payment will also decrease. The reason? You're depreciating about the same amount, but over a longer period of time. This amount, to anticipate your next question, is much greater than the additional finance charges. The reason? You're only extending the lease by 9 months. The residual will not change much because the additional 9 months will not add much depreciation (regardless of whether you choose 39 or 48 months, you'll still terminate your lease in the same model year -- 2005). Can you really tell the difference between driving a car that is 3 years and 3 months old vs. an identical car that is 4 years old?

    The key is whether you'll be able to keep the car within the warantee mileage. If you're going to drive 15k per year, you'll fall outside of warantee -- in which case it's probably better to go with the shorter term. There's no way I would ever lease a car outside of the warantee.

    With respect to the differing residuals you've been given, consider that a car that's been driven 40k miles (12k per year for 39 months is probably going to depreciate less than a car that has been driven 50k miles (15k for 48 months). That's why the residual pct will be higher as the mileage increases. When I was going to lease my car for 10k per year, the residual was 50% of MSRP. When I extended it to 12K per year, the pct dropped to 49%.

    FYI: You're lucky that you're in Connecticut (not just because I grew up there). Like most states, you only pay tax on the depreciated amount. In Illinois, we pay tax on the full sales price of the car. In Cook county, they even tack on a .25% surcharge.
  • Thanks to Lime53 and Chicago27t1 re: lease info on the 2.7t. I stopped by the dealer this a.m. (only one in the Portland, OR metro area - I actually live in WA - but Portland dealer is closest).

    The car I saw did not have sports or nav packages and did not have the cd trunk changer. All other options were on the car. MSRP is $45,975. "Lease price" is 43,275 - whatever that means. I assume they are offering the car at $2,700 below MSRP, but not sure.

    A 12,000 mile per year for 39 month lease w/ $0 down is $567.70 per month. With $2,499 down, the monthly is $500.15. Money factor is the same as above .00139 with a residual of 55% ($24,826.50)

    I love this car (ming blue w/ tungsten grey interior) and this sounds like a reasonable deal, BUT I have never leased before (actually never financed before either). Since WA has sales tax (but only on the portion of the lease that you pay), it is highly desirable over purchasing the car. I don't really want to pay $3,500 + to the state for the privilege of buying a car.

    What is the best way to negotiate a better lease deal. I would be interested in 36 - 48 months @ 12,000 miles per year w/ as little down as possible. I would love additional advice from anyone and more info re: what others are hearing from dealers.

    Peace and GO Mariners
  • You've read it and heard it before -- do not put any money down on a lease, it is a false economy, especially with the deals like we're seeing on this board.
  • jkendalljkendall Posts: 30
    So, Mark, are you saying not to pay the tax, title, and license fees? It seems funny to finance
    a 'one time' fee and pay interest on it. I agree about the 'cap cost reduction'. That's instant
    money in the dealer's pocket.
    jk
  • The $43,275 or lease price is the same as the sales price of the car.

    The way you approach the dealer is to come in with your formula and the lease price.

    Tell him you'll give him 2% over invoice (43,275 * 1.02) for the lease. Show him how this effects your lease payment. Use the formula to calculate the payment. Calculate it for 39 months and 48 months (residual for 48 months will be 50% for 10k miles/year and 49% for 12K miles/year).

    Explain in a nice but somewhat condescending tone that you are going to show him how to calculate a lease payment with a pen and calculator. At this point he will realize that you are a very sophisticated buyer and will take you a bit more seriously. If he doesn't, ask to speak to the manager. It will also be helpful if they realize that they can sell a car on the spot if they meet your price. At this time of the year, you should be able to pick up a 2.7T for no more than 3% over invoice...regardless of what they tell you.
  • jkendalljkendall Posts: 30
    So, Mark, are you saying not to pay the tax, title, and license fees? It seems funny to finance
    a 'one time' fee and pay interest on it. I agree about the 'cap cost reduction'. That's instant
    money in the dealer's pocket.
    jk
  • I meant no CAP COST reduction and if possible no security deposit.
  • What are the deals that others have been able to negotiate on the 2.7t w/ the current Audi lease offers? Have dealers been willing to go below the Audi lease printout (listing all lease options) or have they been sticking with these #'s?? I am looking to lease ASAP, but would love some input from others.
  • I picked up my 4.2 on Friday (Silver/Tung,premium,17" wheels) and the one thing I noticed while putting on 500 miles (trip from MA to NH and back)was that the stock tires, while handling ok in the rain, were extremely noisy (Pirelli P6000). I spoke to the sales and service people and they all said that this is the price you pay for performance tires. Finally I spoke to an Audi tech that I have known for years, and he actually said that this tire/car combo was not great (he agreed on the noise). He actually suggested that I try more of an "all season" option such as the Yokohama AVS db that have been discussed here.
    They go on tomorrow...I'll let you know.
  • Oddly enough, I AM a pretty big Pirelli fan -- but not of those Pirellis -- and they are NOT very durable. The Yok AVS db's I am certain have a "lower" limit than the Pirellis -- but the 4.2 w/sport has such a great capacity even with these all season tires, I am certain you will be happy.

    Let me know what you think about the Yok's.

    I hope Audi (soon) lets us configure our cars the way we want them (including the tires) -- the computer/www would make this process easy, especially if instant gratification (buying without ordering that is) was not an issue.

    My dealer told me that a larger portion of Audi and Porsche customers (compared to US brands' customers) think nothing about a three to nine month lead time when buying a car. And, the BMW dealer said to this day there are BMW's that are virtually ONLY sold via order and with substantial (by American standards) lead times.

    I have never bought an Audi off the lot, oops one time, in over 20 years. The longest wait I had was for my wife's first TT -- about a year wait. The second TT took a little over 5 months, my 4.2 took a little less than 4 months. But I got what I wanted, not what was on the lot.

    It seems to me that the cost of "floorplanning" is so high that more and more dealers will keep less and less inventory especially if buying habits tend, over time, to drift away from instant gratification. My dealer has one S8 in stock -- and one with dealer tags on it, claims that S8 buyers are unlikely to come in a buy off the showroom floor unless there is a deal.
  • There are quiet maximum performance tires -- the Pirelli Rosa jumps to mind -- noise is NOT always the price one must pay for max perf. The Dunlop SP9000's were quiet, the Goodyear GS-D's -- I could go on.

    You were given the "lazy" or convenient answer. That is crap (lazy answers, that is) IMHO.
  • mknmkn Posts: 35
    What is the maintenance history/record of an A6 quattro (1998 and/1999) with >60k miles on it? Any info that you may have will be helpful. Typically, how long do these cars last without prohibitively expensive maintenance?

    Thanks
  • Q: Typically, how long do these cars last without prohibitively expensive maintenance? Big charges -- assuming nothing breaks -- i.e., big charges for maintenance and replacement parts starts at 60K miles and accelerates at 75K miles (and, things DO start to go wrong, too -- beyond worn out parts and maintenance). However, having said that -- an "overhaul" should not be needed (all things being in tip top shape and having been well maintained) until at least 150K miles. Many of these late model European cars have been leased and have had factory maintenance schedules kept pretty much in compliance (in part because the maintenance is free). But, Click and Clack the Tappet brothers claim that the service intervals are geared toward owner convenience not exactly what is best for the car's mechanicals for a long period of time.

    I have found myself changing the oil for example less frequently than I used to (although still more frequently than the manual says) because I never keep the car beyond warranty.

    I used to change oil and filter every 3,000 miles and use the best semi syn oil there was. Annually, I would change virtually ALL fluids in the car (even when it was my nickle). I realize the cars need such pampering less than they used to, but my guess is that the 10,000 mile oil change intervals of the new Audis won't bite anyone during the first 50,000 miles -- but more's the pity for the next owner.

    Anyway -- when you look at it from the perspective of keeping a car 150,000 miles with little or no major breakdown, frequent maintenance makes $ense. If my plan was to try to keep an Audi for 100 to 150,000 miles, I think I would only do so if I bought the car brand new.

    No car, for me, is worth the risk -- unless it is very low acquisition cost -- starting out at 60+K miles -- I would just assume that I would pay for the car and then pay for the car again in bringing it up to great condition.

    Seems "cheaper" to buy a new one and maintain it well and keep it until the wheels turn square (oh yes and buy it new with an extended warranty right away).

    The cost per year is probably lower starting with a new car than one that you don't know.

    At least that has been my experience.

    Mark
  • mknmkn Posts: 35
    What is the maintenance history/record of an A6 quattro (1998 and/1999) with >60k miles on it? Any info that you may have will be helpful. Typically, how long do these cars last without prohibitively expensive maintenance?

    Thanks
  • dwpcdwpc Posts: 159
    Its tough to gauge because until the current A4 & A6 models, Audi sold hardly any cars in the US, so there are few older cars to assess. I can't quote from Audi experience, but the drive train on most any modern car should go to 150K+ miles without major trouble. At some point before 100K, most need the timing belt replaced, which can be quite expensive. With a std. trans, clutch wear is an issue after 75K. In my experience, its more likely that "little" problems; air conditioning, power windows & seats, trim falling off in your lap, etc., will get to you long before the engine or driver train goes sour. Then you find out your "baby" is essentially worthless as a trade-in.
  • I am the proud new owner of a 2001 A6 2.7T in the Denver area. The car came with stock 16" Continentals and my dealer is vague on whether or not I need to upgrade to a better tire for winter. Here's the deal - I have the kind of job where, no questions asked, I have to be able to get to work despite the fact that we may have 5 inches of snow on the road.

    Markcincinnati, I know you are a fan of the Yoko AVS db's and recommended them recently to a writer in Chicago. I have to admit that I have no idea what winters in Chicago or Cincinnati are like as compared to Denver. Do you think this would be a good choice for me as well given my situation?

    I have also been considering dedicated winter tires and having them mounted on an extra set of alloy rims through tirerack.com. On tirerack.com there are a lot of 17" and 18" wheel choices for the A6, but I am nervous about the fact that my owner's manual repeatedly stresses the need for me to stick with the OE size of 215/55-16. Has anyone had experience changing the wheel size on their late model A6 and has everything turned out okay?
  • Relatively speaking winters in Cincinnati are moderate sometimes mild rarely harsh.

    I would go with dedicated winter tires based on your description of your situation (with separate wheels too).
  • I just replaced the oem Pirelli P6000 tire with Yokohama AVS dB tires. The difference in noise level is amazing, even the sales manager was astounded. Thanks to everyone here for their valuable knowledge.
  • Keep us posted as to your satisfaction with these tires -- by the way -- who paid for these tires on your one day old A6 4.2?

    And, while I'm being nosey -- how much did they cost -- I paid $144 each from tirerack.com.

    Mark
  • The dealer actually suggested that I try a local tire place that gave me $125 per tire credit for the Pirellis. This offset the fact that I paid $180 per tire for the new ones (mounted, balanced, etc. Including free flat repair and free rotation for life). The whole thing cost me slightly over $200. I spoke to the dealer and they are "giving" me a cd changer as compensation, so I think it worked out ok.
    By the ay, this car is unbelievable, and the quality of the interior is far superior (from a materials standpoint) to the 2001 MB S500 behemouth that I just sold.
    BTW2, the dealer was willing to install for free if I bought from tirerack, but would give me nothing for the old tires.
  • timcartimcar Posts: 363
    In your situation, the surest bet would be to get a good set of winter tires on your current rims. Many, many A6 owners have put all kinds of 17" & 18" wheels on their cars, and all combinations of tires. Audi sells them with 17" wheels. If you take a look at Tire Rack, the Yoko AVS dB's aren't rated best in snow among the Ultra All-seasons. An unusually effective tire in that class is the Dunlop SP5000, if you want to go that route. If you want to check out some of the wheel/tire combo's that A6er's are using, I'd suggest looking at the A6 board on AudiWorld. Having said all that, the A6 2.7T is a great car in snow, and the stock Conti's aren't that bad. They'd probably get you where you're going too.
  • A few weeks after I bought my 2000 A6, the front doom light has been working intermittently. I've taken it to the shop twice, and each time they didn't find a problem, and when I picked up the car, the light works. Then 2-3 days later, it's out again. Seems to work most often on hot days or in the sunlight. Seems to hardly work at night or in my garage. Anybody else seen this problem? Thanks for any help or advice.
  • bertram60bertram60 Posts: 113
    I have had great success with the Bridgestone Blizzacs (in my previous life I lived in the snowbelt). I would opt for either a pair of steel 16" wheels (there should be a VW fitment that would work) and the Blizzacs for the winter, or get a nice set of 17" or 18" and some summer tires, and have the Blizzacs mounted on factory alloys. I used them on a number of my VW's and NEVER had a problem, they were the BEST snow tire I ever used. BUT, dry road handling is not the best, as a matter of fact, the car becomes something completely different on dry roads due to the complex makeup of the rubber and tread design, but put them on snow or ice and a quattro car would be almost unstoppable.

    Tirerack is best place to go. Try extension 317, JD is very helpful and knowledgeable.
  • local dealer just received two 2.8q's and has offered to sell one to me for 37,300 (invoice plus 6%). i'd like to push for invoice plus 2%, but am given the impression by the dealer that 2.8q's are now extremely difficult to come by. is that anyone else's experience? if so, what do you think would be the lowest over invoice i should reasonably push? thanks in advance.
  • timcartimcar Posts: 363
    Haven't looked at 2.8Q invoice prices in awhile, so I'll take $37.3K as 6% over, but it sounds like less than that. I have never heard of any market where 2.8 Quattro's weren't the MOST common A6. So unless your market is very unusual, I find the salesman's statement hard to accept. Considering that the '01 model year is almost over, I would think that $1K over dealer invoice would be a fair offer and $1.5K would be generous.
  • The Blizzacs and separate winter/summer wheel tire combinations would be my choice, too.

    I would consider mounting the Blizzacs on the Audi A6 factory wheel and doing a PlusOne Summer tire/wheel -- you could even upsize the wheel to an Audi wheel (@ www.audiusa.com).
  • Saw on AudiWorld boards that 2% is usually offered and 3% is limit to go.

    The 3.0 models will be out soon and the dealers need to GET RID of the 2.8 models as soon as possible. Play hardball on this model, or give a little on the faster models.
  • jason64jason64 Posts: 50
    Hi Mark, the suspense is killing us; what happened to your rotor turning experience on the Hunter set-up?
  • It is about 5:30PM on Friday August 17th -- and my clean Audi was just delivered to my office a few minutes ago (it took them a day and a half to do the deed on the Hunter machine).

    The Service manager called me and said, "well, the vibration is gone, the brakes are smooth, but it will take about 150 to 200 miles for the noise to go away." He said he WAS pleased with the results as far as the shudder is concerned but said that the purring sound was possibly a bit louder -- he said drive it for the weekend and Monday, and call him on Tuesday and if I am in any way unhappy he will put new rotors on it.

    At this point, that is a full report.

    As the Service Manger said, sorry it took so long -- and I am saying to you, sorry this saga is taking so long to report. But, you are getting the information as quickly as I get it.

    And, BTW, the SVC MGR said that he did check with other's who had had the "treatment" and they said the noise will go away in a few days. Since I don't know what the noise is, yet -- I'll give a cautiously optimistic, "we'll see."

    Mark
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