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Audi A6

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  • timcartimcar Posts: 363
    For the link to VWVortex with the link to VW o A.
    The current Passat rides on a platform with a wheelbase of 106.4", track 59'6". A6 rides on one with a platform of 108.7" wheelbase and 60.6" track. So, it looks like the W8 will have a track a couple inches longer. With that W8 engine, it should be pretty potent, but since VW AG wants to differentiate the VW and Audi products based on sportiness, it probably won't be quite as sporty as some of the Audi sport package variants.
  • bertram60bertram60 Posts: 113
    SMWLS8

    I deal with Champion all the time, as a matter of fact I travel 40 minutes just to deal with them, and have never had anything bad to say. They have recently increased the frequency that they provide loaners (A4's via Enterprise) to me and have always been willing to drive me where I needed to be and/or have a shuttle system for local customers. I'm not getting S4's or A6's, but I have always been offered a car whenever I needed to leave the car overnight. Two years ago this was a different story and loaners were not something I saw much of, but that has all changed.

    BTW- Mercedes loaner program, while part of their service plan, is ultimately at the dealer's discretion. Some dealers loan like for like, others (like mine) have rental agencies within the dealership. I'm always stuck with smelly OldsmoBuicks. I like the people at my Audi dealer a lot more than my Mercedes dealer.

    VW vs. Audi:
    As a VW to Audi graduate, I do agree they are related, but I think there is more to an Audi. Some if it is measurable, in options, features and materials, but some is as everyone says, just in the way it feels. To ask for a definition is like asking why I like Chocolate Chip Ice Cream more than Cookies and Cream, and why I think Ben and Jerry's is better than ACME brand offered at 1/4 of the price. I think it is.

    Having said that, there are some features on the new Passat that I wish were on my Audi. Rotate the mirror control to the 6 o'clock position and the side mirrors fold in. VW used to have the best wiper delay system I've used. Flip the wipers on then off, then back on when you want them to swipe again and it remembered the time between on-off-on. I don't know if Audi ever had this (Mark?) and I don't know why VW stopped using it.

    If your trying to justify the new Passat, don't, just buy it, it's a great car offered at a reasonable price. The better question regarding price is why do you like it over, say a V6 Accord. Honda is arguably more reliable than the VW or Audi (yes, my wife had one so I can speak to it's lack of need for maintenance). While 4motion is a great feature, is it something you really need? Or what about a V6 Camry? Whatever reason you suggest the VW over any of these is the same reason we all say we like the A6 over the Passat. You can list the physical attributes/features side by side, but at the end of the day, some of them can't be put on a list with a dollar sign next to them.

    Call it snob appeal, foolishness, stupidity, marketing, whatever you want, sometimes (if we're lucky enough to have the means) it is just a question of what you like more, and what you are comparing it to (BMW, MB, etc) and therefore is a more reasonable choice. I personally love the fact that no one really knows what I'm driving sometimes, and love to hear peoples reaction to the car. I made this decision based on what I wanted, not what I needed, and much to my wife's dismay at the time, didn't really care to look for something more "reasonable". I didn't need a reason to buy it or to look for better deal, I had to have it. Now that's not saying I'm an idiot and just payed whatever they wanted, nor to say I didn't look around. The car (Oh I hate to use a cliche) spoke to me, as I said, I had to have it.

    You are doing a great job in researching and trying to determine what the appeal and differences are, but if you really have to look that hard, buy the VW, save your money, and have it for later when something else really turns you on.

    Good luck.
  • bjbird2bjbird2 Posts: 647
    I'm keeping my options open at this time and getting all the facts. Thanks to everyone on this post for the information and mostly un-biased opinions provided. I may just drive my Infinity
    J-30 (subjectivly, a great car) through the winter and check out the W8 in the spring. Then we can start this friendly jousting all over again. Whatever I get, I'm sure it will be in the VW/Audi family.
  • mmcbride1mmcbride1 Posts: 861
    You really can't go wrong with either one. Just pick the one you like the best.
  • mknmkn Posts: 35
    Talked to AoA and they said they would try to help. They are contacting the dealer to see if the 'Good Will' option can be pursued. The dealer is working on the car at this point and has given me a quote of around $650 plus tax that includes fixing the tie rods, putting in new mud guards, and giving me an extra master key. I believe the tie rod work is going to cost me around $450 plus tax. AoA called to say that they have left a message with the dealer and that they were waiting to hear from the dealer. I talked to the dealer prior to this and he mentioned that the car should be done in a couple of days. Will keep you posted. Am also getting a complete check up done. I have sort of given them a free hand to fix anything that might be wrong since I do not want to be bothered by trivial stuff every now and then. They would, of course, have to consult me before doing anything, though.

    Thanks for your input.... Will let you know what AoA offers.
  • mknmkn Posts: 35
    I contacted the seller of the car who is an auto dealer and told him about the problems with the tie rods and how the car would not pass state inspection and look at what he says:
    "Every day you take the car to a different mechanic and every day you have a
    new problem? That car does not need tie rods or rotors. Maybe a set of pads? If you want to get taken advantage of by an a
    Audi dealer that is your problem not ours".

    Interesting, isn't it? They seem not to accept anything that anyone says for obvious reasons...
  • The A6 you bought was from an Auto dealer, not an Audi dealer? Or, are you saying the Audi dealer procured the car for their inventory, then sold it to you? I suspect as I am trying to piece this together that you bought an Audi, with less than the # of miles used in the factory warranty, but with more than the time elapsed on the then current warranty. And, the dealer that sold the car to YOU, not to some other entity is NOT an Audi dealer -- so there would be no "certified used Audi" program to fall back on.

    Well, mkn, with "hat in hand" and a "mea culpa" on my lips, I would still pursue some "good will" or at least partial assistance from AoA. But, frankly, I now tend to doubt that you will get much relief. And, boy does it pain me to make this prediction.

    I obviously don't know the facts, I also don't know the "opportunity cost" of this transaction and the total amount of money you have spent so far and will, very soon, have to spend (I think you said around $600).

    This much hassle would be OK with me if I acquired the car for a substantial "under book" price (perhaps 15% - 20% under). Then, I could "mentally" and financially say, "so what if I have to put a couple thousand dollars in an other wise fine car, since I got it for much less money than 'retail book price'."

    Conversely, the worry factor, value of my time (and I'm not suggesting my time is worth more or less than yours) and other financial factors and concerns about reliability would make me wonder if a lease on a brand new A4 (2002 model) wouldn't have actually cost less? Perhaps even the lease on a new 2001 A6 would -- for the peace of mind, warranty, maintenance, road side assistance, etc, been immaterially different.

    I would offer that buying from a dealer, generally speaking, may cost more -- on paper -- but actually cost less when all these factors are added together.

    I am "frightened" for you, because you never know what is lurking that could detain you or be a safety concern. I again encourage you to have the entire car checked from "head to toe," and replace or repair ANYTHING that could be a safety issue for sure and a comfort or drivability issue almost for sure.
  • mknmkn Posts: 35
    No, not an Audi dealer. I am waiting to hear from the Audi dealer after he does a thorough check-up. Called AoA and they said that they are still waiting to hear from the dealer. Why do you think that the "good will" option may not work? Thanks again for your time...
  • bertram60bertram60 Posts: 113
    for what it's worth, as I bought my Audi used (Audi Assured) and have had a number of "issues" recently, I have repeatedly seen the words "our sell" on my paper work. I have assumed that this helps my dealer recoup costs associated with work and services (loaners) that they have provided for me and my car.

    I agree with Mark, in that there may be less reluctance as some of the dealers "goodwill" must normally be based on the fact that the dealer that services the car was able to make some profit in the sale and or resale of the car, and that in order for the car to be Audi Assured it would have been thoroughly inspected prior to the dealer deciding to sell it off their lot. If the car was a lease turn-in, the dealer is under no obligation to re-sell the car, AoA (assuming that's the lessor) is responsible for the car at lease end.

    In speaking with my dealer, they rarely buy a car at the lease end unless it's highly sought after, or in such remarkable shape that they know it will be easy to warranty and sell.
  • bertram60bertram60 Posts: 113
    I can't remeber where I originally saw it, so forgive me if it was here, but there are a couple of cool functions that aren't in the owners manual of the 2000 Bose Concert stereo system. If you hold the station 5 pre-set button and turn the power on, you'll see 55555555 displayed. This is a 4 channel graphic equalizer the first four number are front speakers, lows to highs and the next four are rear speakers, lows to highs. You can adjust these with the volume knob and Pscan moves you to the next band. Makes a difference if you listen closely.
  • mknmkn Posts: 35
    Just to let you all know that the area rep of AoA stepped in and good willed all parts. I had to pay for the labor and some sundry charges which came to $540. Am wondering what the amount would have been if I had to pay for all the parts as well. Will let you know what the bill was for when I get to see it tonight. Thanks to all who helped, esp. markcincinnati...
  • timcartimcar Posts: 363
    If Randy will forgive me, seeing his post on the graphic equalizer for the stereo reminded me that someone kindly created a web page on the topic. For any who are interested:


    http://e-audi.tripod.com/eaudinewsarticles/synfhead1.htm

  • bertram60bertram60 Posts: 113
    That's the same posting I saw. I went through my glove box and found that I had printed that off of Audiworld.

    It's much easier to understand with the pictures and description together. I've tried it and adjusted my stereo to where I like it.

    When I had my A4 loaner, I adjusted that stereo too. I really noticed a difference in that car.

    Randy
  • mknmkn Posts: 35
    AoA "good willed" the parts and I just had to pay for the labor. I had the entire car checked out and fixed all that needed to be fixed. In fact, there wasn't much to fix. Everything else turned out OK. Thanks again to markcincinnati and others who provided valuable advice....
  • I noticed the hidden features post on the 2000 radio systems, does anyone know of any hidden features on a '98 bose system. The subwoofer is terribly boomy and I want to find a way to turn it down. I have the bass all the way to -5 already and that doesn't really help.

    thanks.

    BTW, I have recently purchased the Yokohama AVS db tires and love them. They are very quite and whoever said it was right, I hear other car's road noise more than my own.
  • MKN,

    Please please please tell me that you bought your car used. And if so, was it from the Audi dealer?

    I'm now hopeful (but still cautious) that I will get some relief for the multiple and expensive problems that I have recently run into.

    Can you give any advice on how dealing with the AoA person was handled?

    Thanks!
    Mike
  • stevehhstevehh Posts: 6
    bjbird2.

    When I first read your comments, I was rather ticked off, but after thinking about them for a while, I am much more sympathetic. You are looking for a new car, and you don't want to make a mistake. What you would like is a "completely objective" set of criteria, i. e. a set of clear and convincing numbers or "facts" that prove that one car is best. Unfortunately, there is no such set of numbers.

    If all you look at is internal dimensions, then you might be happy with an old used school bus. If all you want is speed, then you should get a very small, light, two seat sports car. And similarly for other numbers.

    The problem is, you cannot sum up a car by its numbers. Even reviews by experts are, at least to a certain extent, opinions by people who,even if they are completely honest and competent, may not have exactly the same outlook on cars as you do.

    On the other hand, this is true of most important things. Can you really justify your choice of spouse, friends, etc. by numbers. Can you imagine rating people as you meet them and choosing to be friends with only those with an 83 or better?

    Just pick a car that YOU really like, and don't worry whether or not there might be a better choice out there. Enjoy the one you pick!

    Good luck,
    Steve
  • mknmkn Posts: 35
    No. They did not ask but I presume they knew when they took info from me and compared it to what they had on their data base. I wrote to AoA initially and they advised me to call their Client Relations. The lady that I spoke to was very helpful and she gave me a ref number after recording my complaint. They then apparently called the dealer. Yesterday morning, someone from AoA actually came over to the dealer's place, inspected the damage, drove the car around (I was told) and authorized the parts to be good willed. The dealer then called and gave me an update. I feel that the dealer and AoA coordinated their activities very well and the dealer took the effort to get the message across for us. No, I had not bought the car from this dealer. It was bought from a used car dealer. I went ahead and had the whole car checked out and there were very few repairs/replacements that needed to be done. The dealer service was excellent. They detailed my car and returned it with a full tank of gas. Thanks again for all the suggestions I received on this board. Hope your dealer supports you and you get help from AoA too. I got the impression that they listened and paid heed to your concerns and wanted to make the going smooth for you. I am pleased with their response, mighty pleased.... They have bought my loyalty with the exemplary service rendered. Hope this helps...
  • bertram60bertram60 Posts: 113
    I know this is off A6 topic, but as you had an A8 and I remember you upgraded the suspension, what did you do about tires? In my ongoing battle with the shudders, the dealer said they thought some of the problem was tire wear (originals w/39k on them were almost due for replacement). After looking around (frankly I've been debating buying a set of 18" S wheels or re finishing my 18" Speedlines) I got frustrated and went to the Tirerack and bought another set of Goodyear LS as I didn't want to spend a fortune on rubber if I was going to replace wheels. Low and behold the new tires made some differences, nice and quiet (for now), but handling got worse! Today I really looked at the new tires. I had been concerned as stock LS's were 225/55/17 and new LS's were P225/55/17, but as I looked further, I was sent a set of 95 T-rated tires when originals were 97 H-rated. I have called the Tirerack, as this is what I ordered and was sent the wrong ones. I am waiting fro a call back and was wondering what you (if you did) put on your A8 and whether the handling was improved. Unfortunately, Yokohama does not make the AVS db in my size, otherwise I would have just gotten them (you're right, you all are Yokohama sales reps and should get paid!).

    TIA,
    Randy
  • MKN, I have been holding my breath for you. I was afraid that once they [?] found out the car was not acquired by you through an Audi Dealer that they [AoA] might be less than supportive. What they did (and apparently what the dealer did) should be the norm ( barring fraudulent circumstances, which this obviously did not contain ). Audi Customer Relations has, I hope, "done right by you" and assuming you continue to enjoy your Audi, you will probably be a candidate next time for another one.

    I do urge you to consider, if used, getting an Audi Certified Pre-owned vehicle in the future, and if new, to patronize the dealer of whom you spoke so highly.

    Whew. Good luck with your Audi, welcome to the fold.

    Mark
  • mknmkn Posts: 35
    Yes, I am relieved too. But I am glad the car is completely checked out and has been certified to be in very good condition. I am planning on getting a warranty on the vehicle through warrantybynet soon. Thanks again for your help and advice, without which this would not have been possible in the first place.
  • I now have put over 500 miles on my "Hunter Turned" front rotors. My 200 mile round trip trek between Cincinnati and Columbus ended last night around 11:00PM. The brake "purr" -- or pulsing or shuddering is definitely muted. But also definitely there.

    Now, the purring/shuddering is only present when the brake is pressed at higher speeds, and there is a new found resistance to the symptoms when it is raining (it used to be really bad at practically any speed when the rotors got wet -- as in a typical Cincinnati downpour here in the humidity capitol of Ohio).

    So, partially successful is my verdict, "mostly muted" at speeds that I would consider "around town" speeds. And, somewhat muted at speeds that are freeway speeds. The number of Ohio State Patrol cars out yesterday prohibited me from speeds in excess of 75MPH so god knows what it would be like at higher cruising speeds.

    Well, I am driving to Pittsburgh (250+ miles one way) over the long weekend, and maybe there will be a caravan of 80 -85mph cars that I can tag along with and inevitably I will have to apply my brakes when some left lane bandit causes problems -- I suspect it will be full tilt boogie Shuddering.

    I am calling my very helpful dealer service manager today -- and unless he tells me to immediately bring the car in for a new set of rotors, my guess is that this will be a next week function.
  • mknmkn Posts: 35
    Yes, I am relieved too. But I am glad the car is completely checked out and has been certified to be in very good condition. I am planning on getting a warranty on the vehicle through warrantybynet soon. Thanks again for your help and advice, without which this would not have been possible in the first place.
  • bertram60bertram60 Posts: 113
    instead of "Tab" (actually did it again trying to post this....duhhh) Odd though, I immediately went to edit and re-posted. I don't show the blank entry on my screen. I'll know by your response if the full message was posted.
  • nedzelnedzel Posts: 787
    It is my understanding that the Passat W8 indeed is simply a 2001 New Passat with the bigger motor and more options. To back that up, I've extracted some dimensions from the web. For the Passat W8, you can get the dimensions from here:


    http://www.volkswagen.at/passat/passatw8lim/masse_1.htm


    For both the 2001 Passat and the 2001 New Passat, you can get the dimensions from Edmunds. You can also get the 2001/2002 New Passat dimensions from vw.com


    Here's what I've found. Dimensions are in inches. Length W8: 185.3, New 2001 185.2, Old 2001 184.1.


    Width W8 68.8, New 2001 68.7, Old 2001 65.8.


    Height W8 57.6, New 2001 57.6, 57.6


    Wheelbase W8 106.5, New 2001 106.4, Old 2001 106.4.


    Track width W8 59.5, New 2001 59.6


    I suspect that the slight differences shown between the W8 and New 2001 Passat are due to rounding errors, since I had to convert the W8 data from mm to inches.


    So, I'll assert again what I said before. The changes between the old 2001 Passat and the new 2001 Passat are what the manufacturers call a "freshening." Yes, the sheet metal changed. Yes, the body was strengthened. They added a bunch of chrome and changed the rear lights. But the basic structure undernearth did not change, as evidenced by the same height, wheelbase, and track width between new and old. It is the basic understructure which governs height, wheelbase, and track width. Overall length can be changed by minor modifications to the endcaps.


    The Passat W8 is simply an options package on the 2001 New Passat. It is not a different car.


    Note that VW is working on a model code-named D1, to be introduced in Europe next year, IIRC. The D1 will be larger than the Passat, will also use the W8, and will be up-market from the Passat W8. Perhaps your figures are actually for the D1?


    I suspect there may be more overlap between the VW D1 and Audi A6, than between the Passat W8 and the Audi A6. Time will tell.


    In Europe, Piech is trying to position VW as a competitor to Mercedes and Audi as a competitor to BMW. It will be interesting to see how that plays out here in the States.


    Jared

  • My A8 had 225 x 55 x 17 Goodyear GSD tires (lasted about 20K miles). I put a new suspension on my A8 and at dealer's suggestion put Goodyear LS H rated 225 x 55 x 17's on the car. I hated them, the car felt as if it had been turned into a belly dancer. Get these !@#$ tires off!! My LS's didn't last two weeks (and not because they wore out either!).

    At that time the best tire I could get was a Pirelli PZero Asymmetrico (spelling?) size 245 x 50 x 17. Big positive difference, a little bit of noise but tolerable. The Pirelli PZero Rosa would be my choice today as they are meant to be both Maximum Performance and quieter. But, I would also "listen" to what the TireRack salesperson had to say.

    I would use the TireRack rating system, too.

    Another thought:

    Now, I don't know if there is a Dunlop SP 9000 in 245 x 50 x 17 or not, but this tire too would be a strong contender for me. The Pirelli P6000 --never again, the P7000 ditto (my friend put them on his new Passat and it sounded like 4 snow tires, talk about disappointment!)

    Now, if you want to NOT "plus 0" your tires, you would of course stick with 225 x 55 x 17, the 245 x 50 x 17 does not upset the computer, speedometer or odometer, it is very very close to the same circumference. Personally I like the improvement of the plus zero tire. And IMO it looks better too. An A8 deserves a bigger footprint.

    Let us know what you're thinking about.

    And yes, I keep reading these posts about Yoko AVS db's and I feel that I should get compensated or at least thanked since I have raved about them so much (and by the way, I continue to be impressed by the Yoko AVS db's in handling, ride and lack of road noise.)

    That's a wrap.

    Mark
  • bertram60bertram60 Posts: 113
    I had a set of SP9000's and P7000's on my 18" wheels and while they were both great at first, the noise after 12k miles or so was louder that my truck tires. One reason I haven't changed to 18's on this car is that I enjoyed how quiet it was and was willing to give up some performance for a nice ride. These T-rated LS's are horrid!, I wish I had my cupped and worn H-rated LS's back!

    Tirerack had recommended a plus0 of the SP5000's but they're $226 each, and as I said, I hadn't committed to keeping the 17's on the car (LS's were only $102ea). We'll see what the Tirerack says about this mix-up. It's just a pain in the --- as now I'm sure I'll have to haul both sets around, get them changed out, and ship the others back. I may just have them ship them to the dealer and when the car goes in next week (for another set of front rotors!) have them put them on and ship them from there.

    Thanks for your help. Still don't know what to do.
  • I agree about the Pirelli P7000's, but I had a set of SP9000's (they only lasted 19k miles) and I can't say that they were particularly loud -- did you mean you had P7000's on all four wheels for a time and SP9000's for a time or that you had 2 7000's and 2 9000's?

    I just checked tirerack -- no Rosa's in 245 x 50 x 17, but you are correct the Dulop Sport 5000's did receive a high rating from users and it is in this size.

    The 9000's are not even in this size, so although I do not recall a noise issue with them, it is moot.
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