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Audi A6

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  • Hi all of you Audi enthusiasts,
    This is my first on line message (I just joined Townhall a couple of days ago.
    I'm still shopping around for a 2001 A6 2.8 with tiptronic, premium pkg., Bose sound, ESP, rear side airbags, leather seating in Ming Blue (my wifes choice) with the Melange interior (my preference is the Silver with the black interior).
    Any how I'm in San Diego CA and the best deal I can get is about 2K over invoice. Can I do better? I have tried carsdirect.com and they are no better.
    I have been looking at other cars too but the A6 seems to be the best packaged automobile around. Are there any quirks or problems with this car? I plan to keep it a long time (my current steed is a '91 Mazda 929S with 84K and looks like new).
    Looking for some advice.
    Thanks and hope to report on how things go.
    Merwan Irani
  • mpuzachmpuzach Posts: 635
    The A6 is a fabulous automobile. I've had mine for 3 months now and still marvel at how good it feels to drive it. The 2.8 liter engine and 5-speed Tiptronic transmission are a wonderful power train; it provides more than adequate power and costs thousands less than the 2.7T. I assume you've taken a test drive; if not, it would be wise to do so before spending this kind of money.

    As for quirks or problems, I've had none in 3 months/4500 miles. Not everyone has been as fortunate, though. My recommendation is that you post your questions on the A6 forum at http://www.AudiWorld.com. There are MANY more A6 owners there, and they're great about sharing information.

    As for price, $2000 over invoice is probably at the high end of typical. $1200 - $1500 over is by no means unheard of, but it really depends on dealer supply and how hard you're willing to work at striking the deal. I paid just $592 over, but that was through CarOrder.com; they've since gone under.

    One other thing regarding options...you didn't mention quattro or moonroof. Are you considering either?
  • I just returned my '99 A6 to the manufacturer (as a lemon) and received a "settlement" check. I know many people that have A6's and love them, but also a few who have had many problems as I did. For a luxury car and the kind of money you will be paying I would opt for something with a better reliability record than the Audi. My problems ranged from minor but reoccurring electrical issues, to a constantly failing gas gauge, and to serious brake issues. Good luck!
  • I have a bunch of questions:

    1- What is the difference between the A4 and the S4?

    2- Can anybody tell me about experiences with Audi service the Boston area? I want weigh the service department heavily in location of where I make my purchase.

    3- How many people have noticed the quattro's inherent driveline windup wacking sound when accelerating after coasting/slowing? I commute for hours every week in stop and go highway traffic, and I don't want to hear annoying noises every time I gas it to move another 30 feet in traffic. I also have to deal with 4 speed bumps on a long hill to get to my house. Does anybody hear it after speed bumps? How bad is it?

    4- Does the A6 have ample ground clearance? My 1996 Honda Accord is able to make it uphill over the 4 speed bumps (even the huge bump with massive scrapes), but I don't want to buy a car that I can't bring home without ripping off the exhaust or front end plastic cowling.

    Thanks,
    Mike
  • 1. Big difference is engine! 2.7t vs 1.8 4 cylinder or 2.8 injected V6, std. quattro. Also suspension, price, etc. It's like asking what is the difference between a BMW 323 and an M3. Check Edmunds for details.

    2. No experience

    3. My A6Q is one yr. old with 11K miles and have had no noticeable driveline windup. My driving is mostly stop and go in Dallas. Our neighborhood has speed bumps and I take them at normal speed (I don't slow down!).

    4. I've only had the front scrape on steep driveways backing up and an occasional front concrete "stopper" with no damage so far.

    Hope this helps. My 2 cents worth is that the S4 (and A4) are very different cars from the A6. Make sure you drive both.

    Good luck
  • I leased my 2000 A6 2.8 at Hoen Audi in Carlsbad, CA. I talked to Terry Branco.....They gave me a great deal on the lease.....very easy transaction with no last minute pressure to buy lo-jack, under coating or anything. Give them a try....

    By the way, I love my 2.8 Tip Milange/Milange.... 4,000 trouble free miles...
  • Thanks for you input.

    Based off of your information on the S4 verses A4, cam I assume the S6 (not available in the US) performs better than the A6? It would explain the desire I've read about in these forums.

    I am only interested in a loaded A6 quattro 2.7t or Volvo S80T. The main reason is that there are very few cars I can fit in with my 6'5" long torso body. Even though I fit the Saab 9-5 doesn't do it for me with the horrible interior styling, noise ride, etc.

    I'm having a difficult time deciding between the 2.7T and S80T. I like this interior and exterior of the S80 much better, but I like the functionality of the quattro (I live in snowy NH with hills) and some nice touch features such as auto-dim outside mirrors and Xeon headlights. The major problems have mostly been resolved in both cars, so other than test drives I not sure how to pick between them. Maybe I'll flip a coin if the stock market continues to do well for me over the next week.

    Mike
  • Any reason not to buy a 2000 model, other than warranty bump? If you can find what you want, I would bet you could get it for $1,000 over invoice, maybe less.
  • As it happens, I have both of these in my garage. (2000 models of S80 T6 and the A6 2.7T(sport). I leased the Volvo last Christmas for my wife. At that time I hadn't driven the A6. I thought then that the S80 was the best car/value in its class. Fast, comfortable, safe and priced right. My wife absolutely loves the car. At one time, I even considered leasing another one for me. But then I drove the A6 2.7t and, for me, it was no contest after that.

    The driving experience in the A6 is, IMHO, superior to the S80. You feel the road better and feel more attached to it with quattro. The S80 feels almost "floaty" to me in comparison. There is also a significant amount of torque steer(due to lots of torque in the FWD) in the S80 that is absent in the A6. We have traction control in the S80, but it still feels less sure on the road than the A6. I never feel like I will fishtail in the Audi. We even have the 17 in. wheels in the S80, but the Sport package (PSK) of the A6 provides much better handling, even with the 16 in. wheels. Both cars are plenty fast, I'll say that.

    I'm a little surprised that you like the S80 interior better. I think the A6 is the most attractive interior I've ever seen, especially at this price level. The 2000 S80 looks a little cheap in comparison (though I hear Volvo went back to real wood trim in 2001). I have the sport seats in the A6 which I love. But I think the Volvo seats are more comfortable for long haul driving. Maybe the most comfortable I've ever had. On the other hand, Audi seat memory adjusts mirrors as well as seats and Volvo's just adjusts the seats. I like 3 year leases and Audi's covers ALL service and maintenance(even brakes!) for 4 years in 2001. Cost of ownership is sure to be less in Audi.

    Bottom line, can't go wrong with either car. I think both companies have created outstanding touring/sports sedans. You'll have to try both and decide which in your favorite. The good news is....my wife is happy and so am I ! Good luck!
  • Petrie3,

    I wish I could come to your house for test rides. I like and dislike both cars for various reasons. Some not so common than others. I wonder if most folks prefer the A6 interior. I don't like the many little 'chicklet' buttons (a good adjective somebody used a while back in one of these forums) in the control panel. It make it difficult to find the correct control which would cause me to look away from the road too often. The shifter also seems too close to the climate controls as well. Even leaning forward I still had a tough time determining what was behind that stick. One last thing that bugs me about the A6 interior is the excess of ash-trays (I guess Europeans like smoking more than Americans) and the lack of cupholders (not to mentions you the potential for accidentally insert your cup a bit harshly and spilling the contents all over the stereo/environmental controls. I shouldn't complain. I'm sure I'd get used to it. the A6 also has a few nice touches, like the folding side pockets, auto-dimming side mirrors, xeon lights, emergency kit, and hazard triangle.

    I plan on test driving both this weekend. I've already tried the S80 T6 at a dealer and in a friends car. My impression was summed as very comfortable, with logical layout of controls (I believe in functionality over elegance - another reason why I'm waying the quattro over the classier exterior of the S80), top notch navigation system, poor take off power, good passing power, floaty side to side suspension, hyper brakes, and excellent sound. I'll let you know my opions after the test drives if you folks care to hear them.

    Mike
  • Hi folks,
    Thanks for your advice and encouragements on my quest to buy an A6 2.8 Tiptronic but no Quattro.
    To djryan, I am shopping at Miramar Audi and they are not giving such a good deal. I will be going to Hoehne Motors in Carlsbad to see what kind of a deal they can give me.
    I might even end up in Hermosa Beach to see an Audi there. Has anyone seen the 2001 C-Series MB's? I here they are styled like the S-Series. I may see one this weekend. If I like it I may say bye bye to the A6.
    Thanks again folks. Will keep you posted.
    Merwan
  • mpuzachmpuzach Posts: 635
    I don't want to beat a dead horse here. Both are superb cars, for sure. I came very close to buying an S80 2.9 before finally getting my A6 2.8 Quattro. In addition to the items already mentioned, here are some areas in which I think the Audi beats the Volvo:

    1. Xenon headlights optional on A6, not available on S80. I have them and will NEVER go back to conventional halogens; xenons are excellent.

    2. F+R heated seats in A6; F only in S80.

    3. In 2000 at least, S80 had only 4-speed automatic vs. 5 speeds in A6; this may have changed for '01. In addition, Tiptronic available across A6 line; manual shifting not available on S80 2.9.

    4. A6 has more complete instrumentation than S80 (oil temperature and voltmeter).

    5. Front fog lights standard on all A6s; standard on S80 T6 but optional on S80 2.9 (dealer-installed).

    6. Only the A6 has "puddle lights"!

    7. Personally, I think the A6 interior is FAR more attractive than that of the S80, especially when illuminated at night.

    8. Then there's the matter of quattro...
  • I agree with everything that mpuzach said in his post. I gather you are only interested in the turbo models of each car.A couple of comments based on his post:

    1. Xenons...nothing better.
    2. I think Volvo offers heated rear seats now. Audi's have infinite adjustment, Volvo has just 2 settings.
    3. I like the Audi Tip better than the S80 touchshift option.
    4. Agree
    5. With the xenons on I barely even notice when the fogs are turned on.
    6. nice touch
    7. I really think the A6 interior is incredible. Especially at night. You should see it that way. I agree with you that the A/C controls are a little awkward, but you do get used to them. I don't find much reason to mess with the settings. While I prefer the knobs for A/C in the S80, the overall climate control system in the Audi seems more powerful. Actually, we think our Volvo A/C may not be operating correctly. We'll have the dealer look at it soon.
    8. Quattro. I just feel more secure and in control than in the Volvo. If snow and/or bad weather is a problem where you live...quattro!

    As to the cupholders....Volvo's are great and I like the place for water bottles in the doors. But just have the Audi dealer replace the coin tray with an additional cupholder and you are set. I worry about spills too, but it hasn't been any problem at all.
  • My 2.7T has over 10,000 miles and the car has been almost perfect, better than my previous Merc C280, and so has the dealer. As for the Volvo, read the Car & Driver $40K sedan test.(maybe Jan/Feb issue?) A6 First, 5 Series second and I can't remember after that but I think the Volvo was 6th? As "Car" magazine said, Audi has single handedly dragged interior car design back into vogue. I would also say the same about the exterior design.
  • I agree with everything that mpuzach said in his post. I gather you are only interested in the turbo models of each car.A couple of comments based on his post:

    1. Xenons...nothing better.
    2. I think Volvo offers heated rear seats now. Audi's have infinite adjustment, Volvo has just 2 settings.
    3. I like the Audi Tip better than the S80 touchshift option.
    4. Agree
    5. With the xenons on I barely even notice when the fogs are turned on.
    6. nice touch
    7. I really think the A6 interior is incredible. Especially at night. You should see it that way. I agree with you that the A/C controls are a little awkward, but you do get used to them. I don't find much reason to mess with the settings. While I prefer the knobs for A/C in the S80, the overall climate control system in the Audi seems more powerful. Actually, we think our Volvo A/C may not be operating correctly. We'll have the dealer look at it soon.
    8. Quattro. I just feel more secure and in control than in the Volvo. If snow and/or bad weather is a problem where you live...quattro!

    As to the cupholders....Volvo's are great and I like the place for water bottles in the doors. But just have the Audi dealer replace the coin tray with an additional cupholder and you are set. I worry about spills too, but it hasn't been any problem at all.
  • Well, I took the 2.7T for a ride. Even though most tests results are the same as the S80, I like the performance of the 2.7T more. The Volvo is rather lofty in comparison. The A6 gives me more of the sports car feel. I shouldn't have been so critical of little things like buttons, cupholders and my ergonomic preferences.

    I do have on major problem with the A6 that may sway my decision to the S80. I'm 6'5" and the A6 lacks leg room which force me to drive in a knee up position with my legs on either side of the steering wheel. The bad part is the obstruction of room by the center console. It pushes into the side of my calf. It isn't bad for short rides, but much stop and go traffic (my weekly commute) and it may be painful. Do any of you tall folks have this problem? I've was only in the car for 15 minutes when I noticed this issue. I've told the dealer that I would not be able to make up my mind unless I could test it for extended driving time or to/from work. He agreed to let me take the car overnight, but he doesn't have any more 2.7T with Tiptronics. I'll just have to wait a week or so.

    Does anybody know of a web site that reports on dealers service departments? I'd like to attempt making a deal based on service and price. I guess convenience should be a factor as well.

    Thanks,
    Mike
  • Glad you like the A6. Remember I said you can't go wrong. I agree with your assessment that it has more of a sports car/sedan feel. As to driving position, I am 6'4''; 220# and haven't noticed a problem with that. In fact, I felt that the S80 center console was a bit more "intrusive". My height is more in my legs too. But, everyone has an individual preference for driving position. I wonder....do this A6 have sports seats or regular? Try sitting in whichever of those you haven't been in yet, it might help. Other than that, just keep monkeying around with all the seat controls and see if you find a good place. I agree, if you feel that uncomfortable, it might bug you for as long as you own the car. On the other hand, you might get used to it and be just fine!
  • This may be a stupid question, but did you have the steering wheel telescoped out all the way so you could get your seat back far enough?
  • It is fortunate that you can take the car for an extended drive. I had a Lexus ES300 that was wonderful in every way, but I found that the seats have very little thigh support, and after 15-20 minutes I became very uncomfortable. I only kept it a year. You don't want to make the same mistake.

    DO try a new driving position - perhaps what works with your current car doesn't in the Audi, but a new position will?

    Good luck.
  • Thanks for your input. I've tried the A6 with the steering wheel fully extended and raised. I've also tried the non-sport and sport versions, but the only difference I've noticed was the suspension. I have a friend who complains about center console in his older Lincoln Mark VIII, but he got used to it. As you said, it's individual preference and that could change with time. I'm very anxious to try the car overnight. I hope it gets here this week. I'll let you know how it goes.

    Mike
  • I'm 6'2" and drive with the seat reclined quite a bit due to my back problems. This puts my head next to the pillar in most cars. The S80 pillar is so thick (it contains an air duct) and so close to my shoulder that it is hard to look around. The A6 pillar is farther away and slimmer.

    I thought there would be plenty of leg room in the A6, but since I sit reclined, my knees are up rather than straight (necessary for my arms to reach the controls). So I haven't tested how far the seats go back. In the knees up position, I never noticed the console being a problem. In driving my Honda Accord, I routinely use the console against my calf as a way to stay in position around turns. I don't recall how that felt on the A6... I vaguely remember thinking it wasn't as comfortable in that regard, but I'm not sure.

    I've put off my purchase for awhile due to finances. When I buy, I'm thinking of getting the sport package but swapping my seats with another buyer who has regular seats.... I'm too wide to be comfortable in the sport seats, unless they "break in" and the side bolsters soften with time. I doubt it. My wife feels the same way, liking the non-sport seats. It should be an easy trade to arrange, since most people like the sport seats.
  • I live in the San Francisco area and am seriously considering purchasing an A6 4.2. I have heard from an independent mechanic who owns his own garage that although Audi makes a great car, when it needs repair it often takes a long time (weeks) to obtain parts. Has anyone experienced this?

    I have noticed some A6's are quite scratched up on the real fender (especially the silver model). Is the material used for the paint of such poor quality that it is easy to scratch up the rear bumper. Is there a remedy to this?

    Any help would be appreciated.
  • I don't think the pain on the Audi is of poorer quality than any other comparable car. Mine has taken a beating with only one scratch so far. I have three dings in my car, one make with a clear sharp force, and no paint scratch there. I give the paint an A. I have the cashmere grey paint.

    Audi parts do indeed typically come in slow. Took me 6 weeks for a headlight (it turned out I didn't need), over 2 months for a windshield, and I've been waiting for a radio for over 3 months with no sign of it yet.

    I see the S80 offers rear heated seats this year. There is a catch though. It's actually on a different car. Volvo offers an executive S80 this year. It has full leather seating, rear heated seats, 2" more rear legroom and a DVD player that plays DVDs in the rear seat. Also has an option of a mobile fax machine. This is clearly for people who get chauffeured around, and thus sit in the back seat all the time. It also clearly will cost a mint. The option package alone (only available on a T-6 exec) costs $5400.
    If you want one of these, I'd get one quick, I think it will flounder in the US marketplace. Seriously, who in the US who gets chauffeured is going to buy an S80 over an S500? Look for the resale to stink to high heaven too.
  • rollierollie Posts: 337
    Regarding post #204:

    Bollinger, I think you are slighty off here on this one. While I certainly agree that not many individuals will buy S80s for limos, it is not the case that the S500 is all that common as a chauferred car either. Lincolns and Caddys still own this segment. (For the price, the $46k S80 Executive is still a relative bargain for a limo considering the content.)

    However, you need to understand, that livery car companies (most notably Boston Coach) love the S80. Boston Coach alone has thousands of these cars nationwide and I've been in more than my share of them (mostly 2.9s but the Executive will certainly be appearing in their fleets for at least a trial if not a long-term stay). Boston Coach (BC) originally signed a deal with Volvo a couple of years ago that expired earlier this year (?). As I understand it, Volvo guaranteed nice residuals on these cars (as they did for regular personal leases - 66% at 3 years as I recall) which helped seal the deal. Under the new ownership (Ford) BC lost their sweetheart subsidy from what I was told. They looked at everthing from Mercedes (they used to have the previous S-class in the fleet) and BMW to Saab, Lincoln, Cadillac, and Mercury from what I was told. In the end they concluded that for the money the S80 was still the best car for the job so now they lease Volvos at full boat presumably.

    Regarding Audi quality, I absolutely agree with you here. Audi is no more or less reliable overall than Mercedes, Volvo, etc. (I didn't include BMW because I really feel I've seen a lack of widespread common problems with their cars of late). Where companies like Lexus and BMW tend to stand apart from firms like Audi, Volvo, etc. is how they deal with unhappy customers. It seems that the former have much better reputations in the U.S. than the latter in making customers happy to an extent (none of them will readily take a car back but some are better than others in trying to rectify a problem in my experience.)

    Just my 2 centavos...

    Thanks.

    -rdo
  • I totally agree the segment isn't owned by the S500. I was going to mention that most US people who get chauffered have even larger cars than the S500, but I deleted it for brevity. I left the S500 in because I feel it is the car that US buyers of chauffered cars would buy if they wanted a European car and didn't want to spring for a Rolls or such.

    Look, I own a turbocharged car. But if I had a ton of money to sink into a huge car and get chauffered, I'd buy a car with a V8 instead. Yes, it's heavier. It could get worse MPG. But the car is already enormous, whats a few hundred more pounds? It's not like it would have handled well otherwise. Upside: higher reliability. Heck, give me the GM 5.3L V8. It's low part count will probably give it a very large reliability advantage over the S500 and S80 T6. Okay, it's a little peaky and low tech. But heck, what do I care? I'm not driving!
  • ravarava Posts: 1
    I am new to this forum - I am planning to buy a 2001 A6 2.7T & had a few questions:

    1. Does the Turbo in the 2.7T require a warm-up and a shut down wait. I read that the turbos are water cooled - Does that mean that I don't have to sitin the car for a minute or two before starting & after shutdown for the oil to warmup/cool down ?

    2. Have the TBB problems often mentioned in this forum been fixed for 2001 ?

    3. Does the Turbo have long-term reliabilty problems ? Did people have their turbos go bust on them on the A6 - If so, have these problems been addressed in the 2001 2.7T ? Are there enuf potential problems with a 2.7T to warrant checking out the 2.8 (can't afford the 4.2) ? I test drove
    the 2.7T and fell in love with it instantly - haven't driven the 2.8 yet.

    4. I live in New Hampshire and the closest dealer in Mass. quoted me a price of $1900 over invoice for a 2001 2.7T? Does that sound like a fair deal ?

    thanks for any responses.
  • 1. Search edmunds. This question is asked far too much. I'm sure you'd find it if you just look 60 messages back on this thread. Three clicks away.
    2. TBB problems are rare on A6's (compared to S4's), doubly rare on unchipped cars. The problem has been addressed by Audi, but the current fix only reduces the incidence from very low to extremely low. There are still those who have had problems with the new TBB. Once again, the vast majority of people with TBB problems (95%+) are chipped.
    3. Let's put it this way. I'm not concerned about problems. However, any turbocharged car is automatically no more reliable than an equivalent NA car, since it has more moving parts. Again, you'd do best to research this on Edmunds. what you get by asking is just opinions. Look at more responses (by searching) and you get a better picture.
    4. $1900 over invoice isn't bad. It's probably actually quite good unless you have a glut of them out there.
  • Over the past 2 weeks I've been reading every Audi forum in Edmunds, because I am also interestd in purchasing a 2.7T.

    I have not read any complaints about Turbo operation or longevity. Although, as bollinger said, there is more moving parts, so inherently Turbos are more prone to potential failure than normally aspirated engines. Turbos have come a long way since inception and I image they would be trouble free with intercoolers. A couple of posts alluded to old habits of letting the car idle for a minute or so after a hard drive, but somebody else stated the dealer didn't say it was necessary.

    I too live in NH and am interested in your experiences with the local dealers. I've been to A.E. Park in Lawrence, and Pass & Weisz in Burlington. I haven't begun to talk money, because I am waiting for a overnight test drive before I make my decision. What options were included in the $1900 over invoice quote, and which dealer? I don't want to fill this forum with specific question about our areas dealers. Can you send me mail at bukowski@mv.com or provide your email so we may share experiences. Thanks. Mike
  • I had 2 80's Audi 5000 Turbos. Both went over 130K miles with NO problems, including turbos.

    However, I drove slowly, with gentle accelleration for the first mile or 2, and let them idle and cool down for a minute or so when returning from a hard or freeway drive - just like i do with a regular engine, but more religiously. I also changed the oil often.

    Turbos face raw cylinder exhaust at incredible temperatures, and spin at up to 100,000 rpm or more! Only a fool would dump that on a cold turbo or prevent a hot one from cooling off a little.

    All Audis since my '87 have water cooled bearings, which eliminated many problems, but it is still a good idea to let them cool a little before turning off the key. Use the time to put on/off your seatbelt, get your stuff situated in the car, adjust the stereo, roll the windows up / down, put on the Club, etc.

    Most large diesel trucks are turbo'd and run hundreds of thousands of miles. Just take care of them, and you won't have any more problems than with a normally aspirated engine.
  • mpuzachmpuzach Posts: 635
    Regarding turbochargers, although I don't have them in my A6 (it's a 2.8), I DO have one in my Volvo (a '92 940 Turbo). I've owned the car since new and have changed the oil religiously, every 2500 miles (twice the recommended frequency). In addition, I ALWAYS let the engine idle down for a minute or so after spirited driving. I've been told repeatedly that these two procedures can dramatically increase the life of turbochargers, even those that have water intercoolers (such as that on the Volvo and those on the 2.7T).

    For the record, my 940 Turbo has 254,000 miles on it and the original turbo is still blowing strong. In fact, there have been no major (or even moderate) power train problems on this car whatsoever. My point is that turbos don't necessarily mean trouble, especially if they're properly taken care of.

    One other thing...other than more frequent oil changes (which benefit the entire engine, not just the turbos), turbos don't require any special maintenance. They really are a pretty cost-effective way to get a lot of extra performance.
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