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Audi A6

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  • timcartimcar Posts: 363
    I have an '01 2.7T with about 18K. I've only had to have an auxiliary cooling fan replaced. It seems that MOST A6's are on a par with MB & BMW for maintenance. The '02's should be the most statistically reliable of current generation A6's. All three car makes cost A LOT of money to maintain out of warranty, if you want to use dealer service, and plan on keeping the car much past it's initial warranty. I, like many others, suggest a good long-term warranty if you want to hold on to it.
  • ebrodskyebrodsky Posts: 7
    Mark,

    What do you mean by "bi"-xenons?

    Eric
  • noshonosho Posts: 119
    ebrodsky,
    not speaking from experience, but apparently the xenon Audis have xenon for the low beam and halogen for the high beam. Bi-xenon means both low and high beam lamps are xenon (or they're combined in one).
  • robo65robo65 Posts: 2
    I am looking at buying the A6 3.0 Front Trak. I know it's the "low end" ride, the finance terms are very good.

    Is the rear suspension an indepedent rear suspension? In the brouchure it says that it is a "torsional rigid beam axle", that leads me to believe it is not independent.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,076
    I agree, bi-xenons are generally one light source based (HID) but unlike "normal" xenon cars, bi-xenon cars will be both high and low beam HID. More and more cars will be coming with xenon low beams as the new models roll out -- Audi, BMW, Mercedes, VW and others will (of course) keep raising the bar, so to speak.

    Bi-xenons are just one more step up.
  • mbnut1mbnut1 Posts: 403
    The A6, older A4 and Passat frontrack's do not have the fully independent rear suspension that the quattros have. Which results in the frontracks not having as good ride qualities as the quattros. The ride quality improvement alone was reason enough for me to prefer a quattro A4. By the way this is not true of the new A4 which has the same rear fully independent rear suspension for both the frontrack and quattro cars.
  • timcartimcar Posts: 363
    If you're buying the A6, you may make up in resale quite a bit of the extra money for the quattro. Don't know what your budget is, but the folks on the left coast are talking about $0 down 39 month 15K leases under $500 for the 2.7T! Wow!
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,536
    My Parents are going to pick up their Ming Blue/Black leather A6 3.0Q this Saturday! They ordered the car and agreed on a price that was ok, but nothing special on a 3 year 15K mile lease. When the dealer called and said the car was in, my Dad called a few other dealers in the area that he hadn't called before and 2 of them gave him a lease price that was $80 a month cheaper (They cited lower costs of the car + new lease rates for their cheaper pricing). He called the dealer back who has his car in stock now and asked if he could don anything with the price. First the dealer flat out refused and said my Dad was getting the best price. My dad told the guy to check with his manager and see what he could do. The dealer met my Dad's price. $550/month 36 months/15K per year with all taxes included $0 down payment.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • ebrodskyebrodsky Posts: 7
    Any talk of tri-xenons? Low beams, high beams AND fog lights? Does everyone notice the sudden "drop off" of illumination in the xenons? Does anyone recommend having the angle of illumination adjusted?

    Also, is there any chance that the 2003 or 2003.5 model will be substantially redesigned? The lease on my 2000 A6 2.7T 6M will be up in 2003, and I was hoping for something "new". I'll probably be leasing another A6 in August 2003.
  • timcartimcar Posts: 363
    Sorry, no tri-xenon's with fog lights are being discussed.

    Xenon's (And halogens) have a stair-step pattern so as not to blind on-coming drivers. If they're too low, they can be adjusted upward.

    It's unlikely the 2003 model year A6 will be the next major redesign. Possibly late calendar year '03 as an '04 model, or maybe even the next year.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,076
    Read the latest CAR magazine (on newsstands now) for a fairly complete discussion of the Audi product lines coming in 03, 04 and 05 as I recall.

    The A4 would appear to be "fixed" for a few cycles now with the 2002 model. The A6 will evolve somewhat, as it did in 2002 and in calendar 03 the 04 S4 will become available as will a "possible replacement" for the allroad (based on the VW show SUV -- The Magellan). The RS6, with pictures avail on audiworld.com shows the subtle design changes of the upcoming model. Who knows how the A6 family will evolve with its next generation (predicted for 04, in 03). What I have seen is a more A6 4.2 look for the "standard" A6's. I.E., the Audi family is going to look more hunkered down and agressive.

    Read the CAR article, look at the pics and see if you agree.
  • cncarlsoncncarlson Posts: 26
    I turned in my '99 1.8T Quattro 5M this weekend for a '02 A6 3.0 FrontTrack. Got an unbelieveable deal with Audi Family Cash (loyalty program and the 1.1 MF for leases on the '02 A6). So far have been very pleased, the CVT transmission is amazing!! you never feel it shift it just accelerates like a rocket! And if you want to shift it has a 6-speed tiptronic option.
    I was not going to come back to the Audi Family because of problems with my A4 (nothing that kept the car from driving, but nitpicky stuff). But based on research I did it seems my orginal A4 was a lemon, (sat on dealer lot too long, trade show car, or something to that affect). But what sealed the deal was the great service I have received from Jim Ellis here in Atlanta (Lee the service manager is great) and the salesperson Stacey Ellis, just made it easy. Especially after having gone to Infiniti to see the new G35 and being told they will not go below MSRP no matter what, well good luck with that!

    BTW, The standard radio is fantastic!
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,536
    Talk about 2 totally different animals. I thought for sure from some of your previous posts that you weren't going to get another Audi at all. You're going from an A4 1.8TQ stick to an A6 3.0 Multironic? What made you give up the manual (You could've gotten yourself into an A4 3.0 6 speed)? What made you give up Quattro? Congrats on your new ride!

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • cncarlsoncncarlson Posts: 26
    I needed the space of the A6 (growing family), so there went the manual (the 2.7T 6-speed was more than I wanted to spend). Also I wanted to get a car that my wife would occasionally like to drive, she can drive a stick, she is just "over it" at this point. The Quattro is a blast, but living in Atlanta, I really don't need it for inclement weather, and with the size of the A6, I don't drive it quite like I drove the A4 ;-)! This is the first time in 15+ years I have not had a manual at my disposal, not sure how that is going to play out! Will probably buy a cheap Miata for fun and shifting!

    With the CVT transmission, you don't miss the manual as much because the shifting is so smooth and the power is immediately available. And at the end of the day, not other car with that amount of interior room and features, could touch the price.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,076
    Anyone have any information whatsoever on the engine lineup for 2003. Will it remain 3.0, 2.7T and 4.2? Will there be any change in power or transmission combination permutations? Will CVT be available with quattro?

    I spoke with my dealer last nite and he says he thinks the "middle" A6 will go to 275HP. Any info on this "speculation." He said he thinks this is so the dealers will quit losing sales to Passats. He told me that he has lost a couple of A4 deals to Passats -- but the reason was that the Passat has power seats and the A4 1.8T does not. (NB: how crazy is this? Why wouldn't you sell any option anyone was willing to pay for -- the 1.8T can be had with power seats elsewhere -- and leather and parktronic and sat nav etc etc).

    He thinks a 275HP W8 will hurt his A6 sales if the 2.7T (the middle car) can't have equal HP bragging rights (or better).

    What's new pussycat?
  • lettialettia Posts: 1
    I have a question I am thinking a purchasing a 1998 Audi A6 what are some of the things that I should be warned about? I know they are pretty costly to repair. Is this really a good car to invest in? The car I am looking @ is sold for $18,000 with 43,000 miles on it. Blue ext. with tan int. Or should I just get a VW Passat GLX? I would like to honest opinions!
    Thanks
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,076
    If I were spending my nearly $20K on a car, and my choice was a used A6 and a new Passat GLX, I would probably go for the Passat. Even though I am an avid (or a rabid) quattro advocate, I also would like to have some money in my pocket -- I am concerned that the 1998 A6 (running naked -- that is without a warranty) would suck you dry financially.

    But, on the other hand, it might be possible to get a new A6 3.0 on one of those super duper lease deals that are going on right now. I heard you can get one for 36 - 39 months for between $525 and $575 a month with no cap cost reduction. Hmmmm $18,000 would carry you for 33 months at $550/month -- and you would have full warranty and full maintenance and a 220 HP tiptronic transmission'd 2002 A6 -- then your last three payments would be an additional out of pocket of $1650. Just about the value of maintenance (routine) for 36 months.

    Just a thought.
  • timcartimcar Posts: 363
    Excerpt of news article with RS6 related info. See link for entire article.


    "In addition to unveiling a working MMI for journalists to sample, Mr. Hunt confirmed that approximately 850 US-spec versions of the RS6 sedan will arrive in the US in the Spring of 2003. Pricing has yet to be set for the bi-turbo, 4.2-liter V8 RS6, but we do know that it will put out 450 horsepower at 6,500 rpm, generate 415 lb.-ft. of torque from 1,950 to 5,600 rpm, cover the 0-60 mph test in 4.9 seconds and will be governed to 155 mph.


    The RS6 will incorporate Dynamic Ride Control (DRC), an active suspension using shock absorbers that are diagonally connected hydraulically to dampen the vehicle along both longitudinal and tranverse axes. According to Audi, DRC will virtually eliminate body roll and pitch as we know it. ESP 5.7, 8-piston Brembo calipers, quattro IV, a five-speed Tiptronic transmission with paddle shift and 9-spoke 8.5" x 18" RS wheels, front and rear sport seats (with the RS6 logo embossed in the headrest), Xenon lights and a Bose Symphony II sound system round out the package."


    http://www.quattroclubusa.org/news/2002/misc/032602.shtml

  • max27tmax27t Posts: 35
    "According to Audi ... 8-piston Brembo calipers ... round out the package."

    Mark, would this be enough to get you to go for an RS6 (even though no manual transmission)? Are your efforts to improve your current brakes now over? One or two more trials/evaluations and your lease will expire. Is it fair to say they are tolerable, but leave room for improvement?

    I am supposed to have my 2002 2.7T delivered this coming week. Any reports of brake shudder etc. continuing with the 2002s?
  • timcartimcar Posts: 363
    The '02 2.7T brakes are of a different design than those in 2000 & '01 cars. The 3.0 got upgraded brakes for '01, and the 2.7T shares them. I think prior 2.7T's and 4.2's used a 2-pot, one-sided caliper designated the HP2, and it is these calipers that are associated with the rotor warping problem. Haven't heard of any problems with '02 2.7T's. Please let us know if you notice any.
  • max27tmax27t Posts: 35
    timcar and Mark,

    I want to thank both of you for keeping this site going. I enjoy reading AW when I have time, but sometimes it is like trying to get a sip of water from a fire hose. Maybe I need to reduce the number of hobby and business interest sites I visit daily/weekly. I know you (timcar) post on the AW site and I appreciate you cross-posting important information here. I might easily miss it depending when I skim the AW site. Both of you are very helpful and generous with your time. I read quite a few of the old posts here in preparation for the A6. Other than adding snow tires I don't expect add any mods, but maybe time (and miles) will change my mind. Thanks for helping this lurker.
  • The RS6 sounds like a fantastic car. And, the lack of a manual transmission, frankly, would bother me somewhat. Now that I know that the 6spd auto won't be in it this time around, I am somewhat disappointed. But, my dealer says my concerns about the 2001 tiptronic have been mitigated somewhat to a lot (depending on how much one liked or disliked it to begin with) with the 2002 new tip software (which has drive mode, sport mode and manu matic mode). I should say that I long for a manual transmission Audi (and frankly I was hoping for either a Sedan S6 or S4) -- I should also tell you that my 2001 A6 4.2 is a great car to drive (in spite of the auto transmission). I turned 50 last year and maybe it is the MLC or my wife's TT or my friend's A4's with manuals -- or some combination of the above -- but I really wanted to shift my next car.

    The suspension and engine and and and of the RS6 are (on paper) seductive, I can only imagine that in real life they will be more so.

    Will there be a "normal" S6 available? And, what about the S4 -- will it have a manual transmission offering?

    Our current plans call for my wife to order (in May or June) a 2003 TT -- hopefully it will have the uprated power (245 - 265HP) available. Of course it will have a manual shift.

    I have been in contact with my dealer about the 2003 allroad -- the problem is the dealer cannot get an answer to the engine transmission questions that I have been posing. The last 6spd manual transmission allroad that can be ordered with certainty is a 2002 and the order can be placed up until the end of April. My dealer claims that a 2003 would have a higher residual and probably a lower lease payment -- so why not wait? That is what I want to do -- wait and order a 2003 allroad.

    Then we will, hopefully, order a 2004 S4 and the garage will be full of Audi's.

    But, the RS6 nevertheless is tempting.

    On the brake issue -- the brakes (after the recent replacement of the rears) are OK from a shudder standpoint, but that is not to say they don't shudder any more, it is just much less.

    We have had a 2002 A6 quattro 3.0 overnight two or three times and I have driven it and I can assure you the brakes on this 2002 at least are very good -- I am envious of them, in fact.

    But I am now at about 12 or 13 months left on the 30 month lease -- and I will probably have a new car perhaps by Nov, Dec this year. The brakes work fine -- that is not and has not ever been my issue. The problems that I and others had with the brakes on the 2000 and 2001 models have apparently been remedied with the 2002 models.

    The RS6 is tempting. . . we'll see.
  • noshonosho Posts: 119
    My 2000 A6 2.7T manual just return from it's 40K service on Friday. I mentioned here in February that I experienced the "brake shudder" for the first time. Forgot to mention it to the service folks though. Thing is, they checked the brakes themselves and replaced pads and all four rotors for "technician noticed brake pulsation." All under warranty. It rained last night and no "rust grind" this morning, which is a good sign as far as I'm concerned.

    I don't know if anyone else has been having similar behavior, but parking at work or at night in the rain would result in rusted rotors 8 hours later. The first application of the brakes would "grind" as the rust wears off. Then no noticeable sounds. Occasionally, a pad would rust to a rotor and make a breaking sound on first roll.

    Maybe these new rotors and pads will fix this behavior. Too soon to tell, but if this mornings experience is any indication, there'll be no more rusting rotor behavior. I'll keep you updated on this.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,076
    I am no shill for Audi and I will not apologize for them. But I have received e-mails (and I am not at all unhappy that I received them) from members of this forum asking for my response to the Consumer Reports (and other) findings pertaining to Audi reliability.

    My responses used to be to the effect, "I discount their findings, they are better at washing machines than cars, etc." Then I realized that at least some portion of their report is based on the feedback they receive from owners -- and I presume subscribers.

    Then I took a short trip with one of my co workers in his Acura (the big one, I'm sorry I don't keep up with their names). His car has over 80,000 miles on it -- and he loves it for one reason -- it is reliable.

    I get into the car and we pull out of the parking lot and clunk the transmission shifts so hard I get mini-whip lash. I comment, wow that's rough. He replies, it has always done that and the other ones that I have driven do the same thing.

    The doors fit poorly. Everything that I would call fit and finish is pretty much OK. The performance is sluggish and I ask him to push it. I did not drive it. It seems like it does not drive easily. The brakes seem warped (and I am qualified to judge I think -- see my upteem posts for the past year on this subject). The stereo is OK.

    Every little "drivability" factor about this car would "drive" me nuts -- "it's OK, it is reliable" he repeats. "After my Saab, I was so happy to have a car that COULD pass the dealership."

    I have heard these words from Toyota owners. One of the people in a President's roundtable that i belong to has an Avalon. He talks about the reliability. I ride in the car and I feel completely isolated from the road (again, I did not drive the car). The interior is what I would call a "hose me out" interior, in that it is obviously meant to be easy to keep clean and hide dirt (it has that Hyatt Hotel lobby look with that carpet that can hide any stain known to man or animal. The dashboard looks as though a garden hose would be the perfect cleaning utensil.

    Boy is this thing quiet at speed though -- but handling, my LazyBoy leather sofa handles only slighly worse. "But it is reliable" he reminds me for the umpteenth time.

    If I keystroked three more examples I suspect it would not sway any opionions any further, but there are at least three more examples that I personally am aware of that all sound the same. My "Honda," or "Lexus," or "Infiniti" or whatever is reliable. When I press for performance, drivability or safety or even fun comments -- I generally get non sequitors.

    I would not enjoy my friend's Acura -- I can think of no practically attainable pleasure I could receive from this car other than its ability to not need service. And, FOR ME, this is not what I am looking for -- at the expense of performance, safety and fun. Don't get me started on fit and finish. The Acura has nothing on Audi and the Lexus (fit and finish) is just as good. Toyota, Honda, Mazda, etc. whatever happened to that legendary Camry fit and finish. It is good, based on the examples in our company parking lot and from my President's roundtable member's examples -- but my A6 is to rip off a car magazine phrase "jewel like."

    Perhaps, just perhaps SOME (certainly not all) of those who praise reliability as the holy grail do so at the expense of the things that SOME (certainly not all) of us who drive Audis (and BMWs and Mercedes and Volvos and Jaguars and Porsches and and and who knows what else) would not accept.

    If someone gave me the Acura with that funky shifting transmission but told me "it never needs service" -- well, I think I would tell them to keep it.

    I do want Audis to be more reliable than they are at this moment in time. Yet, having Audis (and a couple of VW's and one BMW) since 1978, I can tell you they are getting better with each model year. Perhaps the Acuras (or whatever the current reliability champ is) are also getting better, I presume they are too.

    And, as I have noted, I have not owned one of these perfectly reliabile cars -- but I have driven as rentals, test drives, friends cars, etc., many of them. I have not been impressed enough to buy one.

    Please do not take this as bashing of any car or make. Please do take this as a critique of the CR report. It is probably correct from a certain point of view. But those of us who enjoy and have a passion for driving these fine machines are also correct from a certain point of view.
  • mbnut1mbnut1 Posts: 403
    I've experienced the same rotor rust phenomenon on my A4.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Very interesting post (#2485). Good reading.

    M
  • mariobgoodemariobgoode Posts: 114
    Definitely great feedback, Mark. About post 2478, she should be able to get a better deal than that. That was the deal I got back in December, and they are more negotiable now as the end of production for the model year 2002 is approaching. For that money, I got lots of extras with my 2.7T 6M, such as the sports package, cold weather, luxury, convenience, xenon, premium, etc. They should be dealing at prices below $525 by this time. Look around for other dealers if they will not come down from the price you want. It may be worth the savings. Cheers! Mario
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,536
    My parents took delivery of their A6 3.0 (Ming Blue/Black) on Saturday. Did you know (I'm sure you do) that the standard wheels on the 3.0 are now the 5 spoke 16" wheels that come standard on the 2.7T? The car is absolutely beautiful! The Ming Blue Paint is so deep. The fit and finish of the body panels are amazing. I love the interior. I haven't driven the car yet (I know, I know, but after we picked up the car, we had company over and we went to the auto show early yesterday AM). I'll let you know when I drive it!

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • gearmangearman Posts: 30
    That was an interesting and thoughful post. Your observations regarding the sometimes bizarre views of Consumer Reports were quite mild as compared to some of theothers that I've read. They're pretty good with toaster tests and statistics, but providing similar quality information regarding cars seems to still be beyond their ken.

    When asked to recommend cars to others, I've found that those seeking a 'reliable' transportation appliance are usually delighted with the newer products from Toyota and Honda. The jury still way out on how Renault's imposition of their engineering standards will affect the reliability of future Nissan products.

    Point being, the successful creation of products designed to appeal to the broadest possible group with a targeted market segment seems to produce bland products that offend few but excite none. Toyota has excelled at creating and selling masses 'low common denominator' cars at many price points.

    Toyota would never dare to market something like the TT or the A6, with their very strong 1939 Speer-inspired design themes. "Kudos to VW" for having the (retro)vision and the marketing courage to bring these well-executed products to market in spite of their politically-incorrect styling connotations. I'll take my TT with the baseball mitt seats, please.

    VW, on the other hand, while suffering from a bad case of GM-like brand confusion between SEAT, Skoda, VW, etc,, has done a wonderful job of creating a distinct audi product personality (so far at least, depending upon where their upcoming 8/ 12 cylinder VW cars impinge upon the audi market).

    And to your point of fit/finish, VW's audi interiors clearly set the standard for contemporary medium priced sedans. The current A8 interior is everybit as nicely down as an S-class interior from a couple of generations ago. The switch gear, roller-cam door positioners, and material quality are all evidence of careful thought and attention to detail by desigers who know cars, rather than toyota-like 'transportation appliances'.

    And compared to the wacky 58 Buick inspired new 7 series interior (with metal trim thrown around everywhere and a column shifter that my grandparents would have loved), the A8 is truly well done.

    Like you, I've found the interiors that Honda installs in their Acura line to be nicely assembled but plagued with inexpensive materials, flexing interior door panels, rattling sun roofs, and other signs of cost cutting, Not nice to see in a $45k RL.

    Further evidence of VW's high standards for Audi interiors: Ford has been leaking comments that upcoming Lincoln interiors will meet Audi standards, and supposedly Bob Lutz has authorized a redo of the 2003 CTS and 2005 STS interiors to bring them up to Audi standards. Time will tell if those efforts will succeed; talk is cheap.

    In the meantime, VW's reliability challenge has the corrosive effect of encouraging Audi buyers to rent rather than purchase, and to limit ownership tenors to that of the mechanical warranty. Perhaps its the preponderance of dry roads where I live that exacerbate the problem, but the quattro system seems to be extraordinarily expensive to maintain at higher (post warranty) mileage levels, unlike the awd systems on Subaru, Ford (X-type excepted), and GM products. At least based on anecdotal comments from friends and co-workers.

    Amongst the various makes of cars I've recommended to others, the enthusiasm of the Audi drivers is consisently very high. They'll complain to me about the post warranty repair costs and depreciation rates ("I shoulda leased another one before 60k miles is a common refrain"), but in the same breath praise the road behavior on ski trips.

    And having seen a RX300 do three slow motion barrel rolls last week onto the hood of an Accord while merely making a right turn at an intersection amongst a stream of other cars making the same manuver, I'm leary of the fake SUV tall station wagon type vehicles. The Allroad seems to be a very appropriate solution, particularly if one doesn't need even more ground clearance for dealing with the shopping mall speed bumps where most RX300s and ML320s seem to congregate.

    I've spent a lot of seat time during the last couple of years in various audi products scooting around France, Germany, and Switzerland, and the high speed highway poise and all weather capability make audi's my favorite for European driving when the temperature is near or below freezing.

    Keep up the good posts!
  • Perhaps Audi can work on improving reliability which would satisfy the Consumer Reports crowd while still providing a quality driving experience. I assume all Audi afficionados would support this. There is no reason that refinement and reliability should be mutually exclusive. Granted, no car will ever be perfect, but a very good A6 can be improved. I hope that Audi, as a company, recognizes this. As nice as my dealer treats me, I find even routine maintenance to be an inconvenience. I think we should all continue to praise the good, acknowledge the bad, and hope for continued improvements.
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