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2010 Ford Fusion vs. Honda Accord and Toyota Camry

24

Comments

  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    You do realize that there is no throttle linkage - it's all electronic now.
  • acdiiacdii Posts: 753
    And, since it is all PCM controlled, an firmware update can add throttle disconnect in a panic brake. I read somewhere the Fusion already has this, but cant find it. I can't find it in the OM.
  • rcummelinrcummelin Posts: 176
    Sure, I know that, but do ya think that those folks killed/maimed/injured by run-away Toyotas cared whether the linkage was mechanical or electronic?

    Hmmm, maybe not so much....
  • acdiiacdii Posts: 753
    At the bottom of this page is a Toyota ad with the Camry. ROFLMAO
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    That has nothing to do with calling it by the correct name. And there is a lot of evidence that says this is also a computer problem, not just a gas pedal problem.
  • rcummelinrcummelin Posts: 176
    Are you implying that the term "throttle linkage" is incorrect? Surely you know that somewhere between the driver's right foot and the fuel injection system there MUST be some sort of mechanical interface (a.k.a. a linkage) that converts analog pedal movement to digital computer signals? I will agree however that this is likely a computer problem - see below.

    BTW- I received a new copy of Car & Driver today and it has an article titled "Runaway Toyotas", covering primarily Toyota's earlier fiasco with floormats, and how to control your car when it becomes a runaway. However, they are claiming that while many other manufacturers have added some software that programs the throttle to close when the brakes are applied, Toyotas do NOT have this throttle cutoff software, but are adding it posthaste (duh!).

    Kind of like closing the barn door after the horses are gone. I'm going to be interested in what solution Toyota actually develops to solve this problem.
  • rcummelinrcummelin Posts: 176
    NBC News just reported that Toyota's problem is with the actual gas pedal assembly, made for Toyota by CTS Corp. Apparently some pedals exhibit a "slow return" symptom which may be the root cause. They have actually found eight (yes, 8) pedals that exhibit the problem.

    Stay tuned.....
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,451
    that is another of the problems.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    Technically you are correct, there is a linkage there but it's electronic. Throttle linkage typically refers to the throttle cable, but I guess now it will mean something different.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    There appears to be 3 problems - floor mats, sticky gas pedal and an electronic problem. A sticky gas pedal would not cause a vehicle to begin accelerating after the gas pedal had been released and returned to idle while braking, and that has been reported numerous times.
  • acdiiacdii Posts: 753
    Yes, it can. Mechanically the pedal returns, but the resistor unit, the part sending the signal to the PCM for throttle application may stick, telling the PCM to accelerate. In the days of mechanical linkage, I have seen cables bind, causing the throttle to stay open. The difference between the two, is the cable bound one can be pulled back to unstick the throttle, the electronic one cant. With the DBW throttle, applying brake should disengage the throttle, but that has to be programmed in.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    You misunderstood what I said. The throttle had already been released without sticking and while the brakes were being applied, the car began to accelerate again without any accelerator pedal input. This scenario has been reported several times and cannot be blamed on a sticky gas pedal. A faulty sensor - yes, but that's not what Toyota is claiming is the problem with the gas pedal assemblys AFAIK.
  • acdiiacdii Posts: 753
    If what you say is correct, and if the mat was on top of the pedal, then what could possibly have happened is the force applied to the gas pedal is causing it to stick. when you press on with your foot, it is pretty much straight on, but the mat would press it down, and sideways at the same time. If the mat is not on the pedal, then who the hell knows. :confuse:
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    No mats - they had already been removed. So again - the floor mats and pedal assembly explain 2 of the 3 reported problems, but not the 3rd one. Consensus is there is an electronic problem, either with a sensor, controller or software and that is the one that Toyota (so far) has not acknowledged.
  • Hackattack- Since you started this thread a while ago, I bet you are relieved that you did not buy the Camry.

    My father-in-law bought an 2010 Camry LE 3 weeks ago, after also test driving the Accord and Fusion.....In light of the recent gas pedal issues, he's now upset he didn't go with Ford ( his 2nd choice).

    Appears the world of Toyota is crumbling further..more bad news for Toyota this evening:

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/02/business/main6167391.shtml?tag=stack

    I'm usually partial to Japanese brands, but am very happy to see Ford doing so well lately WITHOUT the help of our tax dollars.
  • wayne21wayne21 Posts: 198
    I'm also glad to see Ford doing well. However, don't be misled on Ford not taking tax dollars. They actually took theirs firts - three years ago. They were actually worse off than GM. But I think Ford now has the opportunity to turn around with the Toyota problems creating new customers for Ford. I was actually waiting for the new sonata, but think I'm going to pass this time around as there are too many new things in this sonata that haven't yet been proven - GDI (germans had their share of problems with this and idk if hyundai will get it right the first time); new transmission (who knows how that will work out); and a new suspension system. I think I'm going to give serious consideration to a 6 cyl mustang as it is going to be about the same price as the sonata SE with the tradeoff being that you get 3/5 mpg less on the mustang, but 100 hp and 100 ft lb torque more than the sonata 4 cylinder.
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    Seriously...first floor mat issues, then pedals, now electronics...gosh, what's next!
  • "Hackattack- Since you started this thread a while ago, I bet you are relieved that you did not buy the Camry"

    Yes I am really happy with the Fusion. The Accord because of problems that Honda would not address was never an option.(I was trading in an 08 Accord) I have been purchasing Japanese for the 16 years and I do have a 08 Tacoma that has been great but this Fusion is really nice and quiet and tight. The only reason I even looked at the Fusion over the Camry was because of this website. It was all over after the test drive. I think Ford has a long way to go on the models that they are not focusing on but I am really impressed with the Fusion, Taraus and F150. The resale price is still a concern for me and I don't think Ford has learned the rental car sale problem yet so I will just let my wife drive it till the resale doesn't matter so much. With Toyota's issue's who know what the resale value of Camry's will be?
  • acdiiacdii Posts: 753
    Well now Steve Wozniak of Apple fame is claiming his Prius runs away sometimes when he uses the cruise control. The NTSB and Japan are now questioning Toyota over the brakes on the Prius disengaging on rough roads. The TCH I had did the same thing, though it sounds like the Prius has it more severe, enough to have caused crashes.

    I am so glad I got rid of the Toyotas when I did.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    However, don't be misled on Ford not taking tax dollars. They actually took theirs firts - three years ago.

    Care to explain this? Ford secured private loans, not Government loans.
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