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Afraid Camry Owner - Toyota found to keep tight lid on potential safety

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  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    According to the reports I read the prior driver was able to bring the vehicle to a stop at the side of the road by hard braking, not pumping, but as soon as he let off the brake the ES took off again because the pedal was still trapped at WOT...by the RX400 All Weather mat.

    If I remember he then said that he was able to get his foot under the pedal and pop it away from the mat.... problem solved. He drove it back to the Lexus store normally where he reported the incident to the receptionist. Smoking gun so to speak. He also didn't think of shifting to Neutral iirc.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    In these threads the whole spectrum of society is voicing it's varied opinions. It's indicative of the widespread feelings from deep antipathy to fear to some questions/concerns to little or no concern based on prior experience. Not much new to see here.

    Everyone of these is valid.
  • The Obama Administration forced Toyota's hand to stop sales and production, in order to help GM ( Government Motors) and also give the UAW a chance to promote themselves to the non-union Toyota workforce.

    http://detnews.com/article/20100127/AUTO01/1270400/Fallout-grows-in-Toyota-sales- -halt

    Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood told Chicago radio station WGN that the government asked Toyota to stop selling the vehicles. LaHood said, "The reason Toyota decided to do the recall and to stop manufacturing was BECAUSE WE ASKED THEM TO." ( note: Toyota wasn't prepared to do it voluntarily)

    Also, just prior to the sales stoppage, the UAW President was slamming Toyota for it's closing of the Fremont California facility

    http://detnews.com/article/20100114/OPINION03/1140421

    Note from the article how quickly GM stepped in to take advantage of the situation, with its incentives to current Toyota owners. How were they able to come up with such incentives so quickly? ..The UAW will now exploit the situation and sell themselves to all those idle Toyota workers in the coming days/ weeks.
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    I was hoping someone could give me some information; the news doesn't really explain the problem in depth but what exactly is causing the problem, is it the floor mats or the pedal itself, or a combo of both? I originally thought with the recall at the end of last year that it was a problem with the mats but now it sounds like the pedal is the problem? any clarification would be greatly appreciated!!!
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    Toyota Sales Halt Deals Blow to Image, Earnings

    The problem with faulty gas pedals in Toyota cars and trucks is rare, experts say, and car owners are unlikely to experience any trouble. Toyota’s reputation is another matter.

    Crisis management experts say just how far Toyota’s image tumbles depends on how quickly it can fix the problems and how well it communicates with hundreds of thousands of loyal customers.

    They also say that Toyota’s growth has outpaced its management structure. The company, now the world’s largest automaker, didn’t have in place the mechanisms to identify and deal with the problems before they exploded into two giant recalls, factory shutdowns and instructions to dealers to stop selling eight models.

    Toyota Motor Corp. rode a reputation for reliability to become the world’s top car maker. For more than 30 years, Toyota won customers and market share from General Motors Co., Chrysler Group LLC and Ford Motor Co. by building high-quality cars such as the midsize Camry and compact Corolla.

    Americans, particularly baby boomers, frustrated with Detroit’s poor quality, fell in love with Toyotas because they rarely broke down. Last year, they bought more than 356,000 Camrys, making it the top-selling car in the U.S. The Corolla was second with almost 297,000 sales.

    In short, drivers trusted Toyota. Now that trust is in danger.

    Toyota said late Tuesday it would halt sales of some of its top-selling models, including Camry and Corolla, to fix gas pedals that could stick and cause unintended acceleration. Last week, Toyota issued a recall affecting 2.3 million vehicles.

    Crisis managers say the issues with the pedals likely surfaced early on at lower levels of the organization, but no one wanted to deliver bad news to the boss.

    “The story just kind of drags on. That’s just deadly for a reputation,”

    said Brenda Wrigley, chair of the public relations department at Syracuse University’s S.I. Newhouse School of Public Communications. “It just spirals into a big situation that’s probably going to have long-term financial impact for the company.”

    In March of 2007, Toyota started getting reports of gas pedals being slow to rise after being depressed for acceleration. Engineers fixed the problem in the Tundra pickup early in 2008.

    But troubles persisted in other models, eventually leading to last week’s recall and the plans to suspend sales and shut down of six factories while Toyota tries to fix the problems.

    The latest developments follow a recall of 4.2 million-vehicle in late

    2009 over concerns that floor mats could bend across gas pedals, causing sudden acceleration.

    The problems, Wrigley said, hit Toyota extra hard because it has touted quality for years to gain advantage over competitors.

    “Quality was their differentiator and now it’s their Achilles heel,” she said. :lemon:
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    That is just it...they had to stop production and 65% of their sales because they just don't know. For now, consumers would be best to hold of on purchasing a Toyota if they were previously considering one; there may be more underlining issues that have yet to surface.

    See the previous video.
  • maple2maple2 Posts: 177
    are you kidding me? you cant see why halting sale and production of vehicles with a tendency to accelerate out of control on their own, might be a good idea? You think they should just keep pumping these death traps out and selling them? Even though toyota cant (or wont) say what the problem is with any certainty.Seriously ,any one who would go out today and buy a new camry and accelerate to their death tomorow,deserves a darwin award :lemon:
  • "put it in neutral, and the engine went to 7300 RPM, then park - no change. I had to shut it off with the key to regain control. If this had happened on the highway, maybe I might not have been able to think of putting the car in neutral, when I was in the middle of a 65 MPH crowd of cars. "

    BINGO!!!

    What's happening in your brain? Did you have a lot of stress at work? Are there passengers in the car, is one of them your kid? How's traffic? Is it a relaxed drive or are you on the way to somewhere you would rather not be? I can see one motorist reacting with "What the %$#% is going on!!!", whereas another motorist reacts a lot calmer and simply says "Wow, this is a little odd" and then after being startled notices it's just a floor mat or, something electronic that Toyota really needs to fix.

    You should be in control of the vehicle at all times, this INCLUDES abnormalities within the vehicle itself which of course, are a lot more rare but they DO happen and will continue to happen. It started with Model T's and I DOUBT it will magically disappear someday.

    The most dangerous thing most Americans will do today is drive their vehicle and we treat it like we're just chewing gum....

    Now if we can just get aliens to suck these idiots out of their cars that text while driving, but I guess that's another forum.
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    (Bloomberg) -- Toyota Motor Corp.’s image as the highest-quality automaker may have been permanently tarnished after an accelerator-pedal defect halted sales of the models that account for more than half its U.S. deliveries.

    Toyota’s “reputation for long-term quality is finished,” Maryann Keller, senior adviser at Casesa Shapiro Group LLC in New York, said today in an interview. “People aren’t going to buy Toyotas, period. It doesn’t matter which model. What’s happened is sufficient to keep people out of the stores.”

    Losing that aura would undercut a decades-long campaign to promote its vehicles as safe and reliable, an effort that propelled Toyota to No. 2 in U.S. sales behind General Motors Co. and helped the Japanese company wrest the title of the world’s largest automaker from GM in 2008.

    Toyota’s American depositary receipts fell the most in more than a year, and GM added incentives to woo owners of the 2.3 million U.S. autos including the top-selling Camry and Corolla being recalled to fix a flaw blamed for sudden acceleration. Late today, Toyota extended the recall to Europe.

    U.S. sales of eight models are being suspended after last week’s recall, and five North American plants are being idled, Toyota said yesterday. That followed a 4.3 million-unit recall in 2009 for a related problem tied to floor mats.

    Those moves compounded concern that quality may have slipped after a decade of North American expansion. The company’s 1,460 U.S. Toyota and Lexus dealers and hundreds of North American suppliers are awaiting word that engineers have found a solution for the pedal defect.
  • berriberri Posts: 4,189
    I'm not convinced Toyota is finished. J&J wasn't finished after Tylenol, Ford wasn't finished after Explorer. It depends more on how Toyota handles it and whether their cars continue to be less reair prone as they age than many competitor's cars. I'd be a bit nervous if I had the push button start, but as long as you have a key in case shifting to N is a problem, you've got a couple of quick remedies should UA occur. When this is resolved and your vehicle has the brake overriding the accelerator software like VW/Audi you'll probably end up with a safer car than most of its competitors. Meanwhile, once the matter is resolved and they are selling cars again, you may get the chance to buy a decent vehicle at a greater than usual bargain price - kind of like buying value stocks during a market decline.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    For me to buy a Toyota Tacoma double cab...

    Maybe a GOOD purchase deal...

    And I certainly know how to DIY install a switch easily accessible to the driver to disable EFI.

    Maybe even a relay actuated by brake light voltage with contacts to open the ECU throttle plate servomotor connection and substitute a voltage to drive the throttle plate closed.

    Opportunities abound.
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    Indeed, I don't think Toyota is "Finished", but their Quality Image may very well be. I also see the resale of their vehicles continuing to drop. The winners here are Ford and Hyundai.
  • 210delray210delray Posts: 4,722
    Yes, nice to see a familiar "face" with a shout-out for Toyota. And you chose the right person to respond to!
  • 210delray210delray Posts: 4,722
    ...about the federal government "forcing" Toyota to stop production.

    The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) can force a recall, but only after concluding a formal defect investigation, which can take months or sometimes years. Even then, a manufacturer can challenge the order in federal court. GM won the latest such challenge, some 25+ years ago, over the prematurely locking rear brakes on the 1980 X-cars. The vast majority of recalls are "voluntary" on the part of the manufacturers, sometimes after investigations or prodding by NHTSA.

    I highly doubt NHTSA has the legal power to shut down production lines on a moment's notice. "Ask" the manufacturers to do so? Sure.
  • gtgtcobragtgtcobra Posts: 259
    The ONLY good thing about all this is that Toyota will start importing more Japanese built vehicles to the US now that U.S. production has stopped. I am hoping that U.S. production will stop FOR GOOD. We need 100% Japanese built Toyotas, NOT U.S. built ones. Bring back the 100% Japanese built Toyotas back to the U.S. and you will bring quality back. American built Toyotas are poorly built with cheap American materials and by dumb American workers.
  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,065
    highly doubt NHTSA has the legal power to shut down production lines on a moment's notice. "Ask" the manufacturers to do so? Sure.

    Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood told Chicago radio station WGN that the government asked Toyota to stop selling the vehicles.

    Strickland said in taking the action "Toyota was complying with the law."

    I guess you could surmise that manufacturing a known defective vehicle is against the law?
  • 210delray210delray Posts: 4,722
    I know what LaHood and Strickland said (and there could be a political motive for doing so). But I still don't think the government can order an immediate shutdown of auto production lines, admitted "defect" or not. Was Ford forced to stop making Pintos after the first few fire deaths occurred?

    The burden of proof is on the government, and there is a investigative procedure covering that, with the federal courts having the last word if the manufacturer wants to challenge it.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Those who want to distort issues for their own purposes tend to cherry pick quotes or data. LaHood is simply late to the game and trying to jump in as the top dog with a "Hey look at me, it's my Department of Transportation that did all this to the mighty Toyota. Ta Da!!! They wouldn't have acted except for us.Ta Da..Ta Da!!"

    However as a sidenote, at the end of the freep article here it states..

    The Japanese automaker has described its recall of 2.3 million vehicles as a voluntary move.

    David Strickland, the new chief of the National Highway Safety Administration, said Toyota had consulted with regulators before making its move Tuesday.

    "Toyota's decision was an aggressive one, and one that was the legally and morally correct thing to do," Strickland said.


    IOW LaHood's own subordinate is telling him to STFU.
  • lzclzc Posts: 483
    >>. . .is it the floor mats or the pedal itself, or a combo of both?

    Quite possibly, it is two entirely separate and unrelated problems. One, a human problem involving the misuse of floor mats; the other, a defective accelerator pedal assembly in which the return mechanism fails after 30,000 or so miles.

    This might explain why some incidents of unintended acceleration didn't look to be related to floor mats.

    Stay tuned, though. For some people speculation about other causes, despite an absence of evidence, is too much fun to let any explanation settle the matter.
  • eliaselias Posts: 1,913
    hey honda seller - yanking on the E-brake is a questionable idea. A pal of mine enjoys demonstrating on rental cars that a front-drive car can drive arbitrarily forward with the rear wheels locked up, no matter what speed one engages the e-brake. Works in reverse too, so I hear from my pal.

    Honda seller, if you ever actually try that at a significant speed - remember that it *locks* into position. Try it some day with no cars or obstacles anywhere nearby. One twitch on the steering wheel with the e-brake locked up and you will be driving backwards about 0.2 seconds later.

    But hey, great time for the stability control option. "Who knew" ?

    "Toyota - our stability control works in all conditions, keeping your car straight and solid, including the last seconds before it unintendedly accelerates your caveat-emptor [non-permissible content removed] off a cliff."
  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,065
    The burden of proof is on the government, and there is a investigative procedure covering that, with the federal courts having the last word if the manufacturer wants to challenge it.

    It says LaHood ASKED Toyota. Don't see anywhere that he ORDERED Toyota to do anything.

    Strickland stated that Toyota is complying with the law.

    I'm sure every move Toyota makes is consulted with their attorneys. If it wasn't in their benefit they wouldn't have stopped production and would've gone to federal court to state their case. I think they made a wise decision. Don't you?
  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,065
    "Toyota's decision was an aggressive one, and one that was the legally and morally correct thing to do," Strickland said.

    IOW LaHood's own subordinate is telling him to STFU.


    Is that how you interpret that statement? STFU you say? Give it a rest as the best decision you've made is to not post the last couple of days.
  • Everyone's assuming that it is the gas pedal that's the problem. What if it turns out to be a glitch in the computer system...or something else ?
  • Finished? No way. I'd buy a Toyota today if they'd sell me one.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    yes, you might even get it for 50% off MSRP...
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    The ONLY good thing about all this is that Toyota will start importing more Japanese built vehicles to the US now that U.S. production has stopped. I am hoping that U.S. production will stop FOR GOOD. We need 100% Japanese built Toyotas, NOT U.S. built ones. Bring back the 100% Japanese built Toyotas back to the U.S. and you will bring quality back. American built Toyotas are poorly built with cheap American materials and by dumb American workers.

    Oh, so now the problem is yet not again Toyota, but workers making them here in the US? Geeeez! Talk about grasping at straws. This all comes down to growth. Build them where ever you want, the problem is like many companies, once they grow, quality is often impacted.
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    "Toyota's decision was an aggressive one, and one that was the legally and morally correct thing to do," Strickland said.

    Give me a break! Talk about more and more silly statements of Toyota looking out for the customer? No way, Toyota was required by law to stop selling the related vehicles. Period!

    This just smells to much of a coverup. They deny it, then they are not sure, then they issue a recall, now they are not sure the problem. I would not buy a new Toyota right now even if they gave it to me. Toyota has ruined their so called Quality Image along with Customer Loyalty.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,693
    So, don't buy one!

    Why do you keep pouring gasoline on the fire?

    Toyota will get through this and the other car manufactures will learn from this!
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    Problem is I already own a 2009 Toyota Camry. :lemon:

    To make matters worse, noticed Toyota just added another 1.1M cars to floor mat recall (when will this madness stop?????).

    Toyota revealed yesterday evening that it's recalling a further 1.1 million cars to fix "pedal entrapment problems" caused by floor mats.

    This action is tied to Toyota's largest recall ever last year of 4.26 million cars for the same issue, but is different than the recall of 2.3 million cars for a sticking accelerator announced last week. The new models in question are:

    * 2008-2010 Highlander
    * 2009-2010 Corolla
    * 2009-2010 Venza
    * 2009-2010 Matrix
    * 2009-2010 Pontiac Vibe
  • millwood0millwood0 Posts: 451
    "Problem is I already own a 2009 Toyota Camry. "

    you can always get rid of it.
This discussion has been closed.