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Afraid Camry Owner - Toyota found to keep tight lid on potential safety

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Comments

  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    Why in the world is Toyota sending new gas pedal systems to car factories rather than dealerships who want the parts to take care of millions of customers whose pedals may stick????????? :confuse: :confuse: :confuse:
  • wesleygwesleyg Posts: 164
    I have no cards in this affair as I have always purchased Detroit Iron, 37 new GM's since the first in 1965, and I received my license in 1959 and drove 50's cars for the first 3 or 4 cars.

    In all that personal driving, and in driving maybe a hundred police cars in 31 years of road patrol, I have had jammed accelerator pedals maybe 8 or 9 times. Most were broken or jammed carb linkages in 60's or 70's cars, one was a maybe 68 (cant recall exactly) Chevy Biscayne with a 427 pursuit engine that broke its motor mount and it took off.

    My point here is that although I have never driven a Japanese or foreign auto in my life, and I know nothing about electronics per se, if I were in that runaway Camry or whatever, I believe the thing would be shut down in 4 seconds at the outside, and the gear shift lever would be in nuetral in half a second.
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    Up to you to decide, but this pretty much sums it all up...not much more to say:

    It appears that Toyota has denied its sudden acceleration problem for more than 5 years. Toyota's recall for floor mat problems is not the end of the story and the company needs to do more to protect its customers and the motoring public.

    In March 2004, the Center For Auto Safety reported about sudden acceleration problems in 2002-03 Toyota Camrys and Solaras and the 2002-03 Lexus ES 300.

    According to AutoSafety.org, by the year 2000, there had been more than 22,600 reported complaints of sudden acceleration.

    More than five years ago, Toyota and NHTSA identified the electronic throttle as the most likely source of the sudden acceleration defect. However, Toyota continued -- and continues today -- to dismiss concerns about its throttle control system and has looked only at the floor mat issue.

    Four years later -- in June 2008 -- the Detroit Free Press and the Motor Authority reported that Toyota had dismissed additional customer complaints that the popular Toyota Tacoma pickup truck had been experiencing the same sudden acceleration issue as other Toyota and Lexus vehicles.

    In 2008 -- like in 2004 -- Toyota refused to take the sudden acceleration issue seriously. Instead of fixing the known problem in its vehicles, Toyota publicly accused its own customers of trying to cash in on Toyota's negative publicity.

    By October 2009, Toyota was forced to finally acknowledge sudden acceleration problems in the following vehicles:

    * 2007-2010 Toyota Camry
    * 2005-2010 Toyota Avalon
    * 2004-2009 Toyota Prius
    * 2005-2010 Toyota Tacoma
    * 2007-2010 Toyota Tundra
    * 2007-2010 Lexus ES350
    * 2006-2010 Lexus IS250
    * 2006-2010 Lexus IS 350

    In October 2009, Toyota Motor Corp. President Akio Toyoda, was forced to publicly apologize for the tragic death of an American family who were killed when their Toyota vehicle suddenly accelerated out of control. This tragedy was recorded by 911 as the passengers desperately tried to slow or stop their out of control Toyota vehicle.

    Despite more than 5 years of documented sudden acceleration problems in Toyota and Lexus vehicles and the tragic death of a family of four caught on tape, Toyota still has refused to accept any responsibility or acknowledge any defect.

    Toyota has ignored customer reports of the sudden acceleration problem for more than 5 years. Despite this growing safety concern, Toyota announced, November 6, 2009, a third-quarter profit of nearly $250 million. In the last 90 days -- while its cars were running out of control -- Toyota made a profit of nearly $3 miller per day. Toyota also increased its sales projection to more than 7 million vehicles for this year.

    Langdon & Emison is aware of more than 2100 reported instances of Toyota sudden acceleration. Instead of listening to its customers and fixing the extremely dangerous sudden acceleration problem -- a problem Toyota has known about for more than 5 years -- Toyota is raking in money and placing even more dangerous cars and trucks on American roads. Toyota needs to take these complaints seriously and fix the millions of dangerous vehicles on our streets and highways. :lemon:
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    "...want to argue..."

    No, not at all. Except maybe in this specific case wherein a mechaincal linkage would be more certain, reliable, in getting the transaxle into neutral.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    When you go WOT the A/C compressor clutch circuit is opened. That might/would result in a HUGE voltage spike, along with a fairly high level of EMI & RFI (Electro-Magnetic Interference & Radio Frequency Interference) due to inductive kickback.

    Might that sometimes cause a disruption of the engine/transaxle ECU's firmware instruction execution sequence...?

    The way I discovered my 12 volt battery in our 911/996 was not up to snuff was because I would get, randomly, various fault lights (mostly ABS...) on the dash after beginning a drive, actually getting underway. The engine always started and only in retrospect did I realize it had been cranking slower than normal.

    Does Toyota/etc use any sort of "snubber" network to snub out, eliminate, that voltage spike...??
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    Toyota is fast losing its reputation as company which promotes reliability and safety. With the Friday’s announcement, the total recall of cars now stands at 9.5 million, 4.1 million for gas pedal problem and 5.4 million for floor mat problems. The number of cars recalled is more than what the company has sold last year( 7.8 million vehicles were sold world-wide last year) which means the company’s expenditure will go up for carrying out the repairs.
  • Ford is the company that once did a cost benefit analysis and decided not to replace a low cost part on the Pinto preferring to pay liabilities on claims (we're talking death) because based on their analysis it was cheaper over all. Ford is the company that continued to put aluminum heads on cast iron engines in several models for several years when they knew head gaskets on these cars were failing early. I know because it happened on my 92 Sable. They finally decided to cover some models but not mine. They arrogantly told me that my head gasket failure was due to lack of maintenance!!

    I think Toyota has learned from other's mistakes and like the J&J Tylenol incident (a classic in managtement strategy) they are taking an aggressive approach. They should be commended for that
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    Regarding the situation with Ford you are referencing, how long ago did that occur?

    As for Toyota taking an aggressive approach, I assume that was suppose to be an indirect joke???? The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration forced them to stop selling the associated vehicles, they didn't have a choice.

    They have tried everything possible for the past years to coverup this issue and have been in denial for the past several months, by trying to keep blaming the customer. Now if that is "taking an aggressive approach" then go figure.

    The sad thing is even as of today, you go to the Toyota.com and it features bold, brightly coloured ads for its cars and trucks, like the Prius and the 4Runner. At the bottom of the home page was a small strip with a link to information on the recall.
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    Here is to the one that thinks "Toyota has learned from other's mistakes and like the J&J Tylenol incident (a classic in management strategy) they are taking an aggressive approach."

    Aggressive approach to defend its name at one cover up after the next, at the expense of the safety of the consumer ~ how sad. :sick:

    During a routine test on its Sienna minivan in April 2003, Toyota Motor Corp. engineers discovered that a plastic panel could come loose and cause the gas pedal to stick, potentially making the vehicle accelerate out of control.

    The automaker redesigned the part and by that June every 2004 model year Sienna off the assembly line came with the new panel. Toyota did not notify tens of thousands of people who had already bought vans with the old panel, however.

    It wasn't until U.S. safety officials opened an investigation last year that Toyota acknowledged in a letter to regulators that the part could come loose and "lead to unwanted or sudden acceleration."

    The automaker knew of a dangerous steering defect in vehicles including the 4Runner sport utility vehicle for years before issuing a recall in Japan in 2004. But it told regulators no recall was necessary in the U.S., despite having received dozens of complaints from drivers. Toyota said a subsequent investigation led it to order a U.S. recall in 2005.

    Toyota has paid cash settlements to people who say their vehicles have raced out of control, sometimes causing serious accidents, according to consumers and their attorneys. Other motorists who complained of acceleration problems with their vehicles have received buybacks under lemon laws.

    Although the sudden acceleration issue erupted publicly only in recent months, it has been festering for nearly a decade. A computerized search of NHTSA records by The Times has found Toyota issued eight previous recalls related to unintended acceleration since 2000, more than any other automaker.

    A former Toyota lawyer who handled safety litigation has sued the automaker, accusing it of engaging in a "calculated conspiracy to prevent the disclosure of damaging evidence" as part of a scheme to "prevent evidence of its vehicles' structural shortcomings from becoming known" to plaintiffs lawyers, courts, NHTSA and the public.

    In January, nearly six years after discovering the potential hazard, the automaker recalled 26,501 vans made with the old panel.

    n 1994, NHTSA slapped Toyota with a $250,000 fine, at the time the agency's second-largest, for providing misleading information about a fuel leak in Land Cruisers and waiting two years to undertake a recall to fix the problem. Toyota acknowledged that it failed to conduct a timely recall but denied withholding information from the agency.

    A decade later, Toyota recalled about 330,000 vehicles in Japan after a 2004 crash there -- caused by a broken steering linkage -- seriously injured five people. The vehicle in the accident, a Hilux Surf, was sold in the U.S. as the 4Runner. Other truck models sold here, including the Toyota 4x4 and T100 pickups, also used the same linkage, a steering relay rod.

    Despite that, the company told NHTSA in an October 2004 letter that it would not conduct a U.S. recall because it had not received information here indicating a problem with the part.

    Documents entered in four lawsuits filed in Los Angeles this year, however, show that Toyota had received numerous consumer complaints dating from 2000 and had replaced dozens of the parts under warranty. The documents also show that Japanese police, in an investigation of the defect, said that Toyota employees had known about the problem since 1992 and should have initiated a recall immediately.

    In September 2005, Toyota recalled nearly 1 million vehicles in the U.S. to replace the part, its second-largest campaign.
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    Toyota has gone above and beyond to save its own reputation at the cost of the consumer's safety. So you want to drive your current Toyota or buy a new one, you might want to research further all the Toyota Safety Coverups in recent year. It's your life, if you are willing to risk it.

    Some sudden acceleration events do not result in a collision, but leave Toyota owners unwilling to drive a dangerous and defective vehicle. Some Toyota owners have received "lemon-vehicle" buybacks, but many are left with little recourse.

    Some motorists who have confronted Toyota about safety issues say that Toyota has hidden information from them.

    Nearly every car produced today contains an event data recorder to store at least several seconds of vital information, including vehicle speed, engine speed, brake pedal application, accelerator pedal application, etc. However, Toyota's data recorders are "extremely difficult" for non-Toyota personnel to read.

    Toyota says it has only one device in the U.S. that can read the data. An operating manual for the device, a copy of which was reviewed by The Times, indicates that it takes two passwords to operate.

    So yes edmund2460, it sure does seem like Toyota has taken an "aggressive approach". I only wish it was for the consumer instead of their own reputation. :sick:
  • millwood0millwood0 Posts: 451
    "Some sudden acceleration events do not result in a collision, but leave Toyota owners unwilling to drive a dangerous and defective vehicle.

    Some Toyota owners have received "lemon-vehicle" buybacks, but many are left with little recourse.

    Some motorists who have confronted Toyota about safety issues say that Toyota has hidden information from them."

    you know, the above sounds very lawyerly, and wouldn't stand a chance in front of an intelligent person.

    But then, intelligence is in short supply in our society.
  • deminindeminin Posts: 214
    Toyota has been riding towards a Big Fall for some time. Their success has gone to their head, and they think they can do no wrong. That is all changing. Their recent troubles, and the inability to handle these issues in a timely fashion shows that Sales is all that really matters to them.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Toyota-Shows-How-Giants-usnews-3989832353.html?x=0- &.v=1

    This article points out the history and potential ramifications of this current set of problems Toyota has. It appears that they have known about this acceleration problem for some time, but have just been ignoring it. Now, they are in panic mode, and have no ready fix for the problem.

    I owned One Toyota...a new pickup back in the early '80's. It was an underpowered, rust bucket, Piece of S***! I quickly abandoned any desire to send my Auto Dollars to foreign countries, and have been quite pleased with my U.S. branded vehicles ever since.
  • carstrykecarstryke Posts: 168
    well least it is a excuse to get out of a speeding ticket
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,781
    Despite all the things you are posting and spewing out, I have yet to see anyone or any organization manage to duplicate a wot occurrence under test conditions on any Toyota. Nor have I seen anyone demonstrate any instance where it is impossible to shift into neutral at any speed.

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460

  • nj2pa2ncnj2pa2nc Posts: 813
    they are now sending the dealerships the new gas pedals (read in Yahoo news)
  • If this is in fact partly a computer issue, perhaps a race condition, it might not be possible to duplicate this problem reliably on a road test. It's happened to me 5 times,over a year and a half, with my foot on the brake; and it happened once when the mechanic was testing it. The mechanic tried for a week to duplicate it again and could not; he was annoyed. This was not a matter of the car mat or the gas pedal sticking.
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    His apology sounds alot like Mark McGwire and John Edwards’s- he’s sorry for getting caught, not for the actual act or is he trying to say “I am deeply sorry”…. ” for ignoring everyone’s complaints and for all those people who died”… “my bad..”

    Speaking for the first time since his company announced a massive recall involving millions of vehicles worldwide, Toyota CEO Akio Toyoda offered an apology to all current Toyota customers. Toyota’s accelerator pedal-related recall now spans 4.2 million vehicles.

    “I am deeply sorry,” Toyoda, the grandson of the automaker’s founder, told Japan’s NHK. Toyota’s massive recall sent shock waves through the industry late last week, followed by this week’s sales suspension. Toyota has halted sales and production of eight models.

    Toyoda wouldn’t elaborate on when a solution for the recall might be available to customers and dealers, but did reassure the company was “still investigating” a viable fix. When asked how the recall might affect Toyota’s reputation for quality, Toyoda responded: “I would like for the people to trust us.”

    Toyota has yet to officially address the public on the topic of the latest recall, but The Wall Street Journal reports the automaker will take out full-page newspaper ads in 25 cities next week to explain how they are handling the situation.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    "..duplicate a wot occurence.."

    And therein lies the problem. It is very likely that not even Toyota is able to reliably duplicate the problem, and once they do find a way, if ever, to reliably duplicate the fix will be milliseconds away.

    Speaking with having more than 40 years of trouble-shooting software bugs that only occur rarely and even worse only in rare conditions, sometimes extremely rare and narrowly specific conditions.

    There are times in which the flaw cannot be reliably duplicated, EVER, in which case you have the software team rewrite the application from scratch. We had one several years ago that involved have a software subroutine being cached in an X86 processor's on chip cache memory. If our code happened to get stored into the cache within a certain specific address sequence it would not execute properly.

    Odd, weird, things happen.
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    For those that still want to convince themself that Toyota took aggressive action for the sake of the consumer...Turns out, the decision to stop producing these vehicles wasn't made by Toyota alone. The Detroit News reports that Toyota is required by law to stop selling the vehicles since there is no fix available yet.

    Nevertheless, Toyota spokesman Mike Michels is reported saying that the company's decision to stop selling the recalled vehicles was voluntary, but that they also had a legal requirement to do so. How do you voluntary do something that you're obligated to do?

    Toyota was legally required to stop selling recalled models
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    Toyota was forced to provide to save their image:

    Toyota responds to L.A. Times article

    image
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