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Afraid Camry Owner - Toyota found to keep tight lid on potential safety

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  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 17,738
    The pedal allegations is the first recall of 3.5 million cars:
    Many people who experienced unintended acceleration are like this couple and don't believe the pedal explanation. Take a look at that mat. it's well designed with a large open area where the heel of the shoe would normally rest on a plastic area on the car's own original mat.

    http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=8996722

    Second, the admission by Toyo that there may be a mechanical problem, only a mechanical problem, in the next round of recalls. They say it could be a polishing effect on the surfaces that rub being affected by moisture due to the heater? I can't see the physics they're alleging to be occuring there. When the heater is blowing warmer air, the relative humidity is down and any condensate on the pedal parts, which are inside the car, would be warming up.

    Third, note in the video in this ABC News report

    http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/runaway-toyotas-problem-persists-recall/story?id=9- 618735&page=1

    that the Toyo dealer replaced the interior drive-by-wire parts and the throttle body which are the parts on the engine, but all of these changes were exclusive of any other controlling parts such as the powertrain control-the computer or the cruise control computer.

    Notice that Mr. Haggerty was able to check the pedal and the floor mat area in the car. He was not in a high traffic area like the San Diego state patrolman. Mr. Haggerty says it was not intrusion by the mat under the pedal.

    The effect of the acceleration by at least one complaint I've read said it felt just like the cruise control taking over and accelerating the car.

    Appearances are that we're creeping up on Toyo slowly having to admit to a real problem which is in the electronics controlling the system. Some of the problems may be in a sensor having worn so much in cars that are relatively new that they may be sticky due to water on the contact surfaces? Where exactly does this water come from?

    As Judge Judy says if something doesn't sound logical then it's not.

    This message has been approved.

  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Both 'News' organizations are building circumstantial cases from reports but without any facts. Nothing more. They then leave it to the viewer/reader to make a judgment - or misjudgement such as above - based on these lack of facts and the prejudices of the viewer / reader.

    Toyota OTOH has presented a factual case to the NHTSA. Everything else is speculation by uninformed distant parties.
  • millwood0millwood0 Posts: 451
    "Here is the link to the letter from Toyota to the NHTSA laying out the scope ( TBD ) and potential cause of these complaints. "

    that's interesting.

    the cause, according to toyota, is essentially that the gas pedal can get stuck.

    what I never understood from the sensationalized news stories produced for the mass is what were the drivers doing when that happened? they kept talking about acceleration - which seems to be consistent with Toyota's story of stuck gas pedal.

    but how about the brakes? none of the stories mentioned anything about the drivers attempting to brake.

    it seems to me if your car is accelerating uncontrollably, a competent driver's first reaction should be to brake. No matter how powerful of an engine, it cannot possibly overcome a functional brake.

    so what were those drivers doing with regards to their brakes when the accidents took place?

    is this a case of incompetent drivers + dumb news media compounded by design flaws, like the Audi story?

    or there is something more to the Toyota admission?
  • "if your car is accelerating uncontrollably, a competent driver's first reaction should be to brake"

    While reaching for the shifter - manual or automatic - and shifting to NEUTRAL.

    My father taught me that back in the 1950s and nothing has changed. When I took driver's ed in the '60s they taught the same thing. Cars back then had mechanical linkages and would get really gunked up with leaking engine oil and road grime and the accelerator could easily stick.

    John
  • gooddeal2gooddeal2 Posts: 749
    I am not worried about it. Toyota build excellent quality vehicles. This gas pedal issue is NOT a big deal. You people are making a BIG deal out of nothing. There's no need to get your panties in a bunch over this. Drive your Camry and enjoy it. You only live once.

    ;)
  • "but how about the brakes?"

    From what I have read if the car is in full throttle mode and you are already going 50 or higher your brakes will heat up very quickly and wear very quickly and who knows how all the other safety devices help this situation get worse like the EBD system that has your back brakes do most of the stopping and how about the ABS that all cars have today that prevent your wheels from skidding but that means the brake can not lock the wheel up and this could be why they could not stall their engine and eventually melt their brakes. I would say that those people probably put the brake pedal through the floor board but did not think about disconnecting the engine from the transmission (neutral)
  • "This gas pedal issue is NOT a big deal"

    gtgtcobra:
    Come on are you for real? Toyota is recalling 3.5 million cars because of this problem so they think its a big deal and I am sure there are many families that have been affected by this that thinks its a big deal. Sometimes I think you are arguing the facts just for the fun of arguing?
  • millwood0millwood0 Posts: 451
    "From what I have read if the car is in full throttle mode and you are already going 50 or higher your brakes will heat up very quickly and wear very quickly and who knows how all the other safety devices help this situation get worse like the EBD system that has your back brakes do most of the stopping and how about the ABS that all cars have today that prevent your wheels from skidding but that means the brake can not lock the wheel up and this could be why they could not stall their engine and eventually melt their brakes. "

    if you were right we would have tons of accidents all over the highway around the country because those vehicles go much faster than 50mph and most of modern vehicles have esd/abs if you look at the engines most of them output 200 - 300 pound-ft torque at the flywheel and much less at the driving wheels and i have yet to hear problems of people slowing down at high speed or cars taking off with the brake floored so in the absence of additional information i will go with the assumption that the drivers are to blame for their own incompetency otherwise the story is very hard to comprehend and the absence of braking information in the news reporting looks suspicious but that's just me
  • greg128greg128 Posts: 330
    "toyota builds excellent quality vehicles"?

    Do some research on the internet not only about the
    runaway acceleration issue but also did you hear
    about:

    1. Sludge - still a big problem in used Toyotas

    2. Rusting frames on Tacomas and Tundras to
    the point where parts bolted to them including
    gas tanks are falling offf the vehicles while
    driven
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    hackattack5 - I agree completely.

    Worst of all this is the sticking accelerator pedals have resulted in 16 deaths and 243 injuries; who is there now for those families and the those that have lost their loved ones?

    Everytime I read this article I am just speechless:

    LA Times details Toyota history of concealing safety issues

    The following reader comments give a much broader scope to the issue than from just the few here on this forum:

    Comments

    And more comments: More Reader Comments
  • rick03rick03 Posts: 3
    You should not have to "slam" on brakes or "shift" to neutral to control your Camry. My wife and I wanted a safe car,(We are both in our 60's) We traded in a 98 Avalon(bought new), wonderful car. We wanted something smaller,bought a 2010 Camry, 4 cyl. Jan 12 2010. I asked if the recall issues were taken care of this 2010 Camry we were purchasing. "Oh Yes" the salesman said.Then last week I called about the new round of recalls.He said "I just found out" your Camry is on the recall list. A saleman would LIE to his Mother to sell a car.
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    rick03 - I am so sorry to hear experienced that with your Camry. Something tells me we are only on the surface of what is really going to come out before this entire Toyota is done. I just wish Toyota would had come forth months ago and addressed the problem. Have automakers not learned by now, the longer it is drawn out, the worst it is for their public image and consumers will no longer buy their vehicles. What started out as a complete denial that is was solely the driver causing the problem, went then to there "might" be a problem, to now an all out recall.

    My concern is What's Next????? :confuse:
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 17,738
    >sludge
    >rusting frames

    You missed the shift hesitation that seemed to run through the various models, lexus, Camry, etc., a couple years back. That was blamed on the drive-by-wire needs also at first and blamed on driver's lack of understanding how to drive... :P It seemed a major problem when people needed to make a switch from slowing down to rapid acceleration to merge such as a ramp with heavy traffic.

    http://www.topix.com/forum/autos/toyota-camry/T0N6BEDCKA0VVT2E5

    This message has been approved.

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 17,738
    >Something tells me we are only on the surface of what is really going to come out before this entire Toyota is done.

    That's exactly what I see happening. At first Toyota was so giddy about having blamed all the reports on mats catching that they issued their own statement that everything was all solved before the NHSTA did so. They got taken to the woodshed by NHSTA who said "Wait a minute, that's not what WE said."

    Then the San Diego accident where a state patrolman could not get the shifter into neutral, couldn't turn off the motor, and couldn't stop. And the black box was "too damaged to be useful" was the interpretation from the only company that only had one reader able to decode the data in the box--Toyota said it had no info!!!! Hmmmm.

    Then the excuse that it's the rheostat that's inside the car that determines the setting of the accelerator pedal. The surface contact wears out quickly (the Lexus was a 2009???) and can stick because of water due to condensation from the heater blowing hot air on it? Hmmmmm. Doesn't compute with my knowledge of physics. That doesn't pass the smell test. My son's going to ask his AP Physics teacher about the possibility of that happening.

    Toyota has been too eager to jump on this explanation, again.
    Note the ABC report has Toyota replacing both the throttle body unit with the motor varying the airflow based on electrical signals received from a computer which is interpreting the reading from the accelerator pedal unit inside the car. Mr. Haggerty, in the ABC report, didn't say anything about Toyota store replacing a computer.

    Of course there may be more than one failure causing problems in more than one car. At least Mr. Haggerty was able to shift in and out of neutral. His shifter may have a mechanical connection to the transmission; the Toyota Lexus of the San Diego state patrolman may have had a shift-by-wire setup which may have been unable to shift. Noone can suggest with a straight face that the state patrolman didn't try to shift into neutral.

    There's more to come in this saga. It's like the sludge where it slowly came around to admission after many people were blamed for cars sludging that were serviced per Toyota's then current requirements for mileage and oil type.

    This message has been approved.

  • my only concern is that no one in the media even knows how to identify a friggin Camry when it drives by... much less analyze what happened in these accidents... but they sure know how to stir up their readers so they'll keep tuning in... LOL

    Personally, I won't be getting rid of my Tacoma (Toyota #8 for me) and buying anything else... especially since there isn't really anything else comparable for me to buy... thanks to the American truck manufacturers that keep making trucks larger and larger so they won't even fit in American garages... oh that's right, GM, Ford and Dodge keep making profit on them (and nothing else apparently). And Toyota has money to fix the problem... unlike the others. I'm still amazed these "drive by wire" mechanisms used by EVERYONE now haven't caused more problems than they have. Even if my Toyota turned to absolute trash, it would still be worth more $$$ tomorrow than anything else.

    In the mean time, unlike most, apparently... if the accelerator sticks, I know how to shift to neutral and turn off the key :D
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    Was looking at Consumer Guide on the 2009/2010 Toyota Camry and found the following to be surprising:

    2009 Toyota Camry (4cyc):

    Pro - Ride, Build quality, Passenger room/comfort
    Con - Steering feel

    2010 Toyota Camry (4cyc):

    Pro - Passenger room/comfort and Ride
    Con - Build quality, Interior materials, Steering feel

    From what we are seeing with the recent recalls, Toyota quality is not what it use to be which would give me little reason to consider a 2010 Toyota.

    Best Buys include the Chevrolet Malibu, Ford Fusion, Honda Accord, Mazda 6, Mercury Milan, and Toyota Prius.

    Recommended picks are the Kia Rondo, Subaru Legacy, Subaru Outback, and Toyota Camry.

    Should be even more interesting if in 2011 the Toyota Camry is even on the Recommended list.
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    greg128 - maybe Toyota should rename the Tundra to the Rustundra? :lemon:
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    You are right, but no means is ANY manufacturer immune from these types of problems.

    The issue is Toyota claims to be better and different (superior) than ANY other manufacturer which makes this issue more disappointing than if it was from ANY other manufacturer.
  • gtgtcobragtgtcobra Posts: 259
    If all Toyota cars were built 100% in Japan, vehicles like the Camry, Avalon, Tundra, Tacoma, Corolla, Highlander, ect. would have better quality components and parts in them and there would be no gas pedal or sludge, rust or fit and finish issues.
    The suppliers here in the USA who make the gas pedal assembly and all the other parts for all the American built Toyotas build low quality parts.
    Get rid of the US suppliers and have these same parts manufactured ONLY in Japan together with the vehicle and you solve the quality issues and fit and finish and sludge problems.
    The ONLY cars which Toyota does NOT have on the recall list is the Prius, Yaris, the FJ and the Scion vehicles. All of these 4 vehicles are built 100% in Japan with 100% Japanese parts and they have excellent built quality and excellent fit and finish. Face it people. Any Toyota that is NOT built in Japan is going to have quality and fit and finish problems. Toyota should revert 100% of their auto production back to Japan. I doubt that this will ever happen though. There will always be problems with American built Toyota vehicles as long as they are still built here in the USA and Canada. The quality will not change for the better.
    Japan built is the best. American built is :lemon:
    Build ALL Toyotas 100% in Japan with 100% Japanese made parts and the problem is solved. :)
    It's easy as that.
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