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Older Acura TLs

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  • tlswhiztlswhiz Posts: 19
    This question has been asked and answered EXTENSIVELY on www.acura-cl.com and other acura forums -- see "2002 Acura TL Type S" for my post on it.
  • I'm also in sunny SoCal (San Fernando Valley). I have owned several cars over the years and many of them white. I can say that cabin temp does stay cooler in a lighter color and the lighter color is also much easier to keep looking clean. That being said, our 2000 TL was a replacement for my wife's 90 white Maxima and she did not want another white car--so she ended up with Montery Blue. Pluses are that the color is not that common and (when clean) looks great--especially with gold logos and accents. Of course, like I warned her, the car heats up much more quickly than a ligher color and the dirt starts showing within hours after washing--requires daily wipe with the California duster.
  • Saturday was my test drive day, as I got to drive a 2002 TL Type S, a 2002 TL (non Type S), and a 2001 TL (in exactly this order). I found the Type S to be very similar to my CL Type S (IE no surprises--except that the back seats are really comfortable!). The regular 2002 TL was also pretty good and provided a bit softer ride. When I took the 2001 TL out of the parking lot, I immediately noticed that the amound of wind/road noise in the cabin was remarkably worse than the 2002. Actually the new TL's are quieter than my CL. For "kicks and giggles", I stopped by a Honda dealer later that day to get the details on their financing special. I took out an Accord EX-V6 and noticed that it, too, was much quieter than the TL.

    Consequently, I'm in a real quandry as to what to buy.
  • jbreez1jbreez1 Posts: 46
    HE GROUP,

    BEGAN MY SEARCH FOR A PER OWNED LUXURY WITH BTW 323/328. ALTHOUGH I LOVE THE LOOK, PRICES SEEMED HIGH AND I KNOW THEY CAN BE CRANKY. SO I CHECKED ON CARS IN THE SAME CLASS. LOOKED AT AURA AL, INFINITY 1S30, AUDIO A4, LEXUS ES300. AM I SEEING THINGS OR IS THE AL 3.2 AS GOOD A DEAL AS IT LOOKS? SEEMS LIKE YOU GET MORE FOR THE MONEY THAN ALL THE OTHERS, WITH THE PEACE OF MIND OF A RELIABLE AUTOMOBILE. MOST TESTS COMPLAIN YOU DON' GET THE PERFORMANCE LIKE A BMW (YOU ALSO DON'T GET A $30-35,000 PRICE TAG FOR A 2000. I'M LOOKING AT A 2000 BUT IF I VAN GET A 2001 FOR 26000, I'LL JUMP ON IT. IM IN ORLANDO, SO ANY INPUT FROM CENTRAL OR SOUTH FLORIDIANS IS WELCOME. ALSO LIKE INPUT FORM ANY OWNERS AS TO THEIR EXPERIENCE.

    THANX

    JBREEZ1
  • jbreez1jbreez1 Posts: 46
    SORRY, DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO WORK THE SPELL CHECK AND WHEN I HIT EDIT IT CHANGED ALL THE WORDS. BTW SHOULD BE BMW, AURA SHOULD BE ACURA, AUDIO SHOULD BE AUDI AND SO ON...

    THANX FOR THE PATIENCE, IM NEW HERE

    JBREEZ1
  • We forgive you for the spell check but please STOP SHOUTING. Anyway, you have discovered what we all found out--the TL is one of the best bang-for-the-buck bargains around. If you have never owned a BMW and if you can find a good deal, get one and get it out of your system. The BMW I owned (1986 325es) handled unbelievably and nothing else I have driven handles quite like a BMW. Of course you pay the price of entry and will continue to get soaked by maintenance costs.
  • mhammy84mhammy84 Posts: 167
    Havent been following too closely with Acuras lately after purchasing a 2K TL and 2K+1 CLS last year. Made a service appt at my local dealer for my CLS, and noticed the new 2002 sitting in the front. I checked the price, and it went way up...but its still worth it (TL-S with navi, 33,700). Now, the only thing i DONT understand is that my dealer had a dumpster-load of 2002's in the back, mostly TL-S's. Now, from my own experience last year, I couldnt even see a CLS when I bought mine, and had to wait a month for mine to show up. Dealer lots were barren...no CLs to be seen anywhere. My TL was about to be sold to someone else also, and I had to jump on the color i wanted since they only had about 3 of them total on the lot. Whats up with all the 2002's just sitting around? Is all the hype totally gone?
  • jbreez1jbreez1 Posts: 46
    Sorry for shouting. The fact that I can get a new TL for less than a '99 BMW will probably sway me. But most of all, the maintenance/reliability factor will probably be the most influential issue. Must admit though, BMW does great with fianancing. I was already approved for 5.9% on a used vehicle. Does Acura do some creative stuff with money? Anyone with experience in that area?
  • tiresiustiresius Posts: 1
    Hello all,

    Does anybody have any comment about the headroom in the 2002 as the 2001?
    It seems they took almost 2" headroom off the 2002. I verified this yesterday by visiting the dealer and sitting in both cars, as well as the Type S. My observations:
    The 2002 is definitely fighter for me, I'm about a 1/2" short of 6 feet. I had noticed when testing the 01 that I was pretty much right in the roof unless I leaned the seat back a little more than I usually do. In my '97 Altima I have about 2" between my head and the ceiling. In the 2002, my head is squarely in the ceiling unless I lean left into the sunroof opening or lean the seat way back. The Type I seemed to have a little more room. Someone mentioned that this may be because of the different seat. This appears to be true, I felt there was a little more room in the Type S. The 2002 brochure does not list a different headroom for the Type S.

    Here are the numbers from the 2001 & 2002 brochures:
    2001 exterior vehicle height: 56.1"
    2002 exterior vehicle height: 53.7"

    2001 front headroom: 39.9"
    2002 front headroom: 38.2"

    2001 rear headroom: 36.8
    2002 rear headroom: 36.5

    As you can see by Acura's numbers, they shortened the car by almost 3", almost 2" of this was lost as front headroom. It didn't look too high in '01 to me. WHAT WERE THEY THINKING!

    Anybody know or have any insights on this? I really want all the changes on the 2002, but this is really setting me back. More headroom would sure be a weird reason to spend the extra money on the Type S.

    One last question, the dealer I was at yesterday seemed to want to stay at msrp on the 2002. Has anybody gotten a sense from dealerships about how long they think they'll be able to get list on the 2002, on Type I's? This dealership has received 2 shipments of '02's this week but only had 2 on Type I's on the lot. They still had about five '01's. My impression is that once the '01's are gone and the '02 keep piling in, prices will come off MSRP. I can wait a few weeks.
  • When the TLs were redesigned in 1999, the supplies basically trickled to the various dealers while prospective buyers were lining up--hence not much discount from MSRP until this year's model (2001). It seems that supply has picked up while the initial interest has died down somewhat. I see no reason to rush to the dealer the first week the new models come out--what do you expect in terms of price? I'm sure if you are patient then negotiating can be done.
  • tgif888tgif888 Posts: 351
    Just purchase a TL Type S. Black color with everything except Navigator. No need to wait or put down $1000 deposit. Dealer was able to discount $500 from MSRP. This car is awesome and good. The power is there when you need it. The dealer had hide some of the 2002 from the lot. It had around 5 cars. And the delaer placed one in the show room. One in the lot. And it had quite a lot of the 2001. Dealer said it just want to sell the 2001.

    Dealer also told me the rim on the TL Type S model is different than the Type I L. The one on the TL is 1/4 inch less on the top part of the rim when you lay it down. It means less chance to hit the curb when you park too close. The reason for the change is the complain from the CL owner.
  • razteorazteo Posts: 38
    I was ready to purchase a 2001 3.2TL, when I discover the "secret" of this car. Long time I was wondering why such a good car, new design, powerful engine, lux. inside..., is only 28k
    Because is a Honda, using the most cheap transmission solution(FWD-same as a Civic or Corolla). You never going to see a Benz, or a serious car manufacter making FWD! I like the car, I like the 5 sp. Auto, but when I drove a 5 series BMW(witch is not much more $, but offering the same, at different quality), I got the point. RWD, inside is a soumptos lux, outside design...you see it, is not a Acura!
    TL design, in a year or two is going to look like "no name car". Look at any 89 BMW, an you will understeand.
    Just go and drive a "real" car, not a substitute, an you will fell the difference. I will deffenetly going to buy a BMW, and, belive me, every penny is worthed!
    But, 28K is great for a TL, today you have to pay the same for a Maxima!
    I'm sure, manny TL lovers will hate me, but I read to much extraordinar stuff here about a "too normal" car as TL is.
  • RWD is great for high end speed and handling maneuvers. It gives you no real world legal driving advantage and in fact causes you to have MUCH poorer traction in slick conditions as you are pushed rather than pulled round a corner and usually with less of the weight over the driving wheels. Yes a BMW is about 50 50 but a TL is 60-40 over the driving wheels with the better configuration of being pulled.

    If I lived in say AZ I'd probably agree RWD is great but in MN it's suicide.

    Now how to break it to the BMW fan ( hell they're nice cars no argument ) about the massively higher cost of maintenance and repair and the loss in reliability. Solved by leasing I guess.

    So yes if I leased and lived in the sunbelt I'd probably be right there with him. Since I only ever buy cars and live in the frozen north I'll go for FWD or even better, as I did, the quattro.
  • razteorazteo Posts: 38
    Corect, forgot to say: I am a South California resident.
    Is no dubt, FWD much better on slick road, snow and other stuff. Quattro better.
    Regard "massively higher cost of maintenance and repair and the loss in reliability" of a 5 series BMW, let me desagree with you. No offence, TL is good car, but can not compare it with BMW.
    On 5 series, the average money going out from owner pocket in 50.000miles(except gas and other possible problems, covered by manufact. warranty), is around $599.00, wicth is hard to beat, let's be honest. (Mercedes E class cost more than double, Jaguar almost four times more)
    And, compare with TL, let's not forget, is a real lux. sedan. And sporty! And good-looking. And roomy. And BMW! And not more expensive.
    A friend of mine had a stick-shift old BMW, and it past 230.000miles. It still runs perfect, is cozy still inside, fell fun to drive. And it has over 13 years!

    Reliability on 5 series BMW? Better is, may be, Mercedes,... and that's all. Tell me I'm wrong!
    Do you know how much it's selling a 97 528 auto, with 30.000miles here? $35.000. SELLING, not asking!! And, belive me, they are buyng.
    May be the sunny wether here, and the prices are higher, and in your area is lower, I don't know that. May be.

    I just want to talk and change impresions with you, guys, no offence for any TL fun.
  • razteorazteo Posts: 38
    One more think. If don't belive me, just read any specialists review regard BMW 5 series, from the last 7-8 years. Look what they say.
  • razteorazteo Posts: 38
    One more think. If don't belive me, just read any specialists review regard BMW 5 series, from the last 7-8 years. Look what they say. And they know better than me and you!
  • dcwong1dcwong1 Posts: 54
    I recently looked at a 2001 TL. For the money, it is a fantastic value. However, when compared to a BMW 3-series for handling, braking, steering, safety, and overall enjoyment, there is no comparison. The BMW is far superior, but also it costs more too. So you get what you pay for. I currently own a '99 323i and just love it. I test drove the TL and overall, it wasn't bad. However, the engine inline-6 is so much smoother than the V6. It seems like the torque curve on the 2.5L is almost linear while the TL's 3.2L V6 lacks the lowend punch.

    What turned me off on the TL was some of the sloppiness of the design. For example, the new TL should have head airbags and an option for rear side air bags - they talk about the safety cage, but heck, every modern car has a safety cage plus the two front airbags. When the TL came out in the '98 or '99, the car only came with two front airbags and a 4-speed auto. What it should have done to stand out among the crowd was to offer the side airbags and a 5-speed auto. There are numerous other things like the overall workmanship of the car. It's better than most cars but it seems like the Germans and Lexus make a better car.

    If you can't afford a BMW, Audi, or a MB, buy a VW Passat. It's a better value than the TL.
  • robnisrobnis Posts: 78
    You suggested one buys a Passat in lieu of a TL? VW must be scared of the car to offer such a meager warranty. If they really want to say they have a quality car, how about 4/50 warranty. Secondly, I test drove a Passat and found that it is underpowered. Now they real car is the TL-S. It will run circles around the Passat, give a much better BTB warranty, has a better resale value, and in the long run should be cheaper to maintain. At lease the 2001.5 Passat finally got a decent cup holder. How about 225 hp?
  • dcwong1dcwong1 Posts: 54
    The Passat actually has a better powertrain warranty than Acura. The Passat has a 10/100000 mile warranty while the TL is 4/50K. Basic warranty is the 2/24K. I'm sure you are right about the resale value of the TL - it is probably a bit higher. The 2000 VW has poor cupholders and the radio buttons are unusually small. You also probably know that besides the 1.8 Turbo offered as its standard engine, it also offers a 2.8 V6 lifted out of the A4/A6 but rated at 190hp. You might not know that the Passat just came out with a W8, not V8, engine in Europe (and should be arriving in the States next year) rated good for at least 275 hp. I think it's a 3.5L. So this is even more power than the Type S at 260hp.

    Run circles around the Passat? Probably not when the Passat has the option of 4-motion (4WD) and Acura TL does not.

    Do I own a VW Passat? No! I'm a proud owner of a '99 BMW 323i and I've driven the TL and I know that the Bimmer handles, steers, and brakes better than the TL. However, you can't beat the price / value of the TL. For $28-30K, the base TL is one hell of a car. I was a former Acura owner but was turned off by its lackluster designs, safety equipment, and general overall staleness. Past couple of years have been better and I look forward to seeing the V8 powered Legend or in the US, the RL.
  • svec7186svec7186 Posts: 56
    1)i know that the lexus es300 is the lux ver of the camry, the rx300 is the lus ver of the highlander. is the tl the lux ver of the accord?

    2) i was reading about the new jaguar xtype and found out that it will share some small % of parts with some ford car. what is other peoples experiance with jaguar cars since ford baught them?

    thanks
  • lfuronlfuron Posts: 3
    We have been looking for a new car for my wife for the last two weeks. Looked at Volvo S60 turbo
    (nice solid and fast but over $40K, BMW 325 (small back seat, low power, 330 well over $40K), Audi and Infinity I30 (both around $40K and neither had performance comparible to TL). BMW may have a very slight advantage in handling and braking but lack of power cancels it out. I have a 280HP supercharged 1995 5sp Maxima which my wife drives so we have a good feel for performance and the TL best fits her wishes. All of the above prices assume comparablly equiped cars to the TL with NAV for $33K.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Someone here can probably answer your first question. Let me give you a link that would be a good place to get an answer to your second question - Jaguar X-Type.

    Pat
    Host
    Sedans and Women's Auto Center Message Boards
  • robnisrobnis Posts: 78
    Nice hypothetical possibility, but this cannot drive the higher powered VW because it is NOT yet available. The only time the Passat can possibly keep up with the TL-s is in in poor weather, then it may be able to do do with the 4motion. Again, for my money it is a no brainer. Not it would be nice if the Passat 4motion had the power of a TL. With the power of a TL-S the 4motion would be special. I reiterate, if VW really wanted to stand behind their car, how about BTP warranty of 4/50. IMO it is "chincy" to offer only a lengthy power train warranty. Now the new A4 may combine the speed and traction (Quattro) some of us are looking for. I maintain the long term cost factor of the TL-S will be significantly cheaper than the Passat (factoring in maintenance and depreciation). My ideal car? All wheel drive (for bad weather), 4/50 BTB warranty, 250-260 hp for power, 16-26 MPG, all the amenities (leather, heated seats, 6 disk in dash cd player, etc, with an MSRP of $35K. Subaru VDC is close, only lacking the engine (212 hp is getting closer), and the TL-S of course lacks the awd capability. The MDX is nice but lacks gas mileage, is hard to get and lacks the feel of driving a car, and is a bit heavy.
  • hunter001hunter001 Posts: 851
    A longer powertrain warranty is a very good marketing exercise....basically the only thing in cars like Acura/Lexus etc that probably may outlast the rest of the car (assuming the car is serviced and taken care of), is the powertrain. Modern cars have a lot of expensive components (other than the powertrain components) that can fail and bleed the owner dry.....in the Passat's case, that warranty does not extend beyond 24000 miles or 2years whichever is earlier - this POS warranty is BELOW THE INDUSTRIAL AVERAGE.

    Also, the 10yr/100,000 mile powertrain warranty is only applicable to the ORIGINAL OWNER. Once the car is sold, the 10yr/100K powertrain warranty is no more applicable. Also, if you read the fine print, you will find that quite a few of the powertrain components that can fail, ARE NOT COVERED (exclusions from the warranty).

    My ideal car (given limited monetary resources) would be the TL-s fitted out with the VTM-4 AWD system adopted from the MDX, and having a limited-slip differential, in wagon form (with the Navigation system). An AWD TL-s Sportwagon, would definitely have a good market.....especially if priced at around 35K.

    Later...AH
  • Wow, how did you end up with a 280hp 1995 5sp Maxima? That must be one quick car!!!

    svec7186,

    Same platform, both built in Ohio. One has more power and more luxurious amenities. But YES they are basically the same. IMHO.
  • lfuronlfuron Posts: 3
    It has a Stillen (Steve Millen) Vortech supercharger. Motor Trend tested Millen's car with this setup and got 0-60 in 5.9 sec. I ran a dyno test at Millen's shop and got over 235HP at the front wheels. All HP ratings you see from manufactures are at the flywheel. You can add 15-20% to the wheel numbers to account for the drive train losses. I've been running this setup for over 20K miles and it does haul. No problem with any stock sedan so far - including BMW 3's. Not M series
  • wood190wood190 Posts: 4
    Of course the BMW 323i handles better than the TL, don't forget the 323 is a small compact car!
  • razteorazteo Posts: 38
    BMW 5 series vs. TL ia an UNFAIR comparision. Only at the price, but I'm not sure. I agree 100% with DCWONG1. (and he was refering to 3 series!)
    If you going to drive any 2001 5 series, you will feel what I'm sayng. Is no comparasion...

    Once again, TL is a great car, for the price, power, options.
  • phkckphkck Posts: 185
    I know the 2002 Type-S are on the lots, looks like the 2001 TL's are starting to stack up. I am hoping by the end of summer to get into a TL at invoice.
  • tgif888tgif888 Posts: 351
    In S. California. Dealer already sold the 01 at $500 over invoice. If you wait until summer, there may not be ant 01 left. Well, it depends on your location, too.
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