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Honda Accord vs Toyota Camry

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  • wenyuewenyue Posts: 558
    I just got this news:


    Toyota had a better year (2000) than was I thought.


    http://www.globaltoyota.com/globaltoyota/corp_info/pr/2001/0125.html


    The company grew by 9% to make 5.888 million cars last year (the original plan was to grow to 5.7 million last year). Now dominates 43.25% of Japan's market, up from 42% last year.


    Daihatsu was not in a great shape before being bought by Toyota. Now it seems like Toyota's capable management has turned them around. I personally think the stategic skill is Toyota's greatest asset. Maybe instead of spending money on costly rebates, GM should use that money to hire Toyota managment advisors. ;)

  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,225
    Or Toyota could use some of those billions laying around in cash to leverage a buyout of GM. I know some people that would start forming malitia groups to defend 'merican soil LOL!
  • "$5000 in interests (profit for the company) over 5 years"

    When I purchased my 2k Accord the Honda rep. resourced quite a few financial institutions for me and none of them was Honda. So I doubt the low APR really plays any major role here. I think it's supply and demand i.e. too many i4's and not enough buyers. The low APR is just used as an incentive to the buyer.
  • wenyuewenyue Posts: 558
    Hehehe, :) I don't think Toyota wants to buy GM. Ok, so Toyota has over $20 billion laying around in highly liquid funds, but there is a historical reason for that.


    In the beginning of in 1950's, Toyota was just a little nobody in the bombed out post war Japan. Sold a grand total of 250 cars (no joke) for the first post war car model, the SA. Nissan (Datsun) and Mitsubishi dominated what's left of the Japanese automobile marke. Toyota was near bankrupcy by 1952, was a major take over target (kind of like Honda in the early 1990's, but Toyota was in deeper).


    By some miracle, it survived. I think it was the Crown model sedan that saved the company. (Interestingly, "Camry", in Japanese means Crown). Anyway, after that close call, Toyota was determined never to be on the take over list again, and has ever since kept a large chunk of liquid fund read to fight out any possible take over.


    1 or 2 billion dollars for that is fine. But even with the purchase of Daihatsu, Hino Motor and a chunk of Yamaha, $800 million for production increase in 1999, the cash reserve kept on growing in size. Now at over $20 billion, I can joke that maybe Toyota doesn't know how to spend it. ;)


    What is exact plan Toyota has for that money, I don't really know. But I can see some possibility and the effects it has.


    (1) Initiative: By have enough money for a take over against any automaker means all of the competitors must divert resources to plan against a take over, and react to Toyota's moves.


    (2) Acqusition: Toyota rencently have made major efforts towards a hipper image. Toyota maybe wishing it had bought BMW earlier, and may do so next time it is offered. It maybe other companies, but that's all guessing.


    (3) New brand: recent news say that Toyota might establish a third brand. Centered around the Genesis group, it will comprise the new cars such as the Matrix, possibly RSC and the upcoming Supra successor (4000GT with 400 hp). Toyota has denied it, but I wouldn't put it past them.


    (4) Non-automotive expansion: Toyota group now comprise of 425 subsidaries. In part to prepare the future "digital cars", Toyota is backing Japan's 2nd largest telecom company. Being the largest investor, BusinessWeek say Toyota may put invest over $1 billion a year into it. Other expansion maybe into other market sectors, as recent alliance between Toyota and SONY. Online expansion, creating Japan's Yahoo/Amazon equivalent (called Gazoo). Who knows? I can't possibly track all the things Toyota has in Japan. Looking at the 425 subsidiaries and 130+ affiliates, it feels almost like Toyota is Japan. :)


    Anyone interested in Gazoo, feel free to go to http://gazoo.com/


    Have fun.

  • I know I am slightly off topic but would appreciate your thoughts on the last 2 cars on my short list. I have owned 2 Accords, both purchased new; a 1991 which I sold to buy a BMW, and a 1985 which I still own. I have narrowed the choice to a 2001 Accord LX(G) which in Canada is the 4 cylinder with power windows, locks, ABS and alloys OR a year 2000 Passat GLS, also 4 cylinder demo with 8000km (4800 miles). The Passat seems to have more features such as 4 wheel disk brakes, standard ABS,trip computer, traction control (not available on Honda). They are both 150 HP @ 5700 rpm. The Passat is a 1.8 liter engine, the Accord 2.3 liter, the torque on the Passat is 155 @ 1750-4600 rpm; the Accord is 152 @ 4900. The Passat is a 5 speed auto and the Honda a 4 speed automatic. The Accords brakes are front disk and rear drum. The Passat also has keyless entry, alarm system and side impact air bags. The ACcord LX does not have these features. The Passat's MSRP is approx $30,780 qnd would be discounted to $25,130 for an on the road cost after taxes of $28,900. The Honda on road cost is $28,200 (which is discounted about $2,000). The Honda pricing was not broken down for me. The issue is not the cost defferential. The Passat is discounted more heavily...about 18% off MSRP. The Honda is discounted somewhat, and more than any other dealer would offer. I recognize the dfference in the model year 2000 vs 2001 and the demo vs new. The VW dealer will add 6 months to the warranty and 10,000 km because it is a demo with 8000km. The net result is the demo will have an unreduced and slightly enhanced bumper to bumper warranty. Normally 2 years or 40,000km, in this case becomes 2 years and 2 months (since car on road from Nov. 00) and 50,000km (40 plus 10). The Passat power train warranty is 5 yr/80,000km vs Honda's 5yr/100,000km. Honda's comprehensive warranty is better at 3yr/60,000 km. Corrosion warranty is 12 yr unlimited mileage for Passat; 5 yr unlimited mileage for Honda. Passat has 2 year 40,000km Road side assistance; the HOnda does not. The Passat has a trip computer; the Honda does not.I drive about 15,000 km per year 30% city, 70% highway and plan to keep this car about 10 years if possible. The Passat looks and sounds good; my reservation comes from the short warranty which makes me feel that Volkswagen lacks confidence in their product. All comments welcomed!
  • It does sound like the VW dealer is really trying to give you a good deal. Have you had the car checked out by a third party to see if it's been in an accident etc. Past history of maintenance may be worthwhile and can be furnished if you ask the dealer to provide you with warranty repair history (should have VIN included) made to the vehicle.

    Personally I think that over the long run the Honda is going to hold up better than a VW, but If all looks well with the Passat and you prefer it over the Honda then go for it and enjoy.
  • soberssobers Posts: 496
    If I were you, I would do a THROUGH mechanical checkup on the Passat. Get its VIN and run a COMPLETE check on CarFax.com or related site. Passat though a good car has low comprehensive warranty & attracts more costly repairs and maintainance than Accord. I would also think of having an extended warranty.

    The most important point about 2000 Passat is that it should be considered 20-30% depreciated. Which makes me nervous. The same dealer would offer you what you paid minus 30% NEXT day of your purchase. So in this case I would like you to get it atleast 20-25% below INVOICE. I would also suggest that if you HAVE to get passat get the 2001 model year. The same engine now has 170HP and the same mileage. Everybody on this forum knows my 'bias' towards Honda but still I think 2001 Accord would be better buy than the 2000 Passat any day if you are not getting a HEAVY discount on the passat.

    In short I would suggest that STAY away from 2000 Passat which is a demo having some crude-miles on it and get the new 2001 Passat or Accord.

    Hope this helps.
    For Honda canada is a VERY SERIOUS market I saw a very large amount of Honda/Acuras in Canada than any other make in my short period there. They are doing many things right there I guess. Last 3 years I saw a handfull of RLs in USA. In 3 days in Toronta/Niagara I saw a bunch of RLs.... Don;t know why is so.
  • soberssobers Posts: 496
    My friend wanted to perform 75K mile service on his 93 Taurus. There was an old couple doing first oil change on their Toyota Camry LE. I had a small talk with her, she said it was their second toyota first one being 82 Sxxxx(?) which they dumped after 238K miles ! She hoped this Toyota would also run forever !! She also mentioned how she liked the quite ride the toyota gives!!
  • liufeiliufei Posts: 201
    30% depreciation on Passat?? Are you sure? I thought that car is one of the
    few car that the dealer usually has the advantage since the supply and demand
    are pretty even out (lots of demand for it).
    If I'm not mistaken, didn't VW has a 10yr factory warranty of some kind? Or is
    it that for their Audi brethren?
  • One significant difference between Low APR financing and Cash Rebates/Cash Back is that for the Low APR Financing, YOU HAVE TO QUALIFY through a credit check. It is not mandatory that you will get it, just because you bought the car.

    In other words, if you have a not-so-impressive credit history, you almost definitely WILL NOT QUALIFY for the Low APR financing. If you need the car, and your credit rating is not tops, you either walk or get financing at a higher/lower rate from a different source. In case of cash back/Cash rebates, regardless of your credit rating, YOU WILL DEFINITELY/MANDATORILY get the "Cash back"/"Rebate" from the manufacturer.

    Later...AH
  • wenyuewenyue Posts: 558
    Hey, thanks for the compliment. Honda is a very reliable brand itself.

    Sorry that I couldn't check the forumn yesterday and today (and throw in a few cents in your debate at the news and views confrence), got struck down by the flu.... Thanks. The day doesn't look so miserable now. :)
  • liufeiliufei Posts: 201
    hehe, take a good rest. You going down with a flu
    probably gives a moral victory to anyone who've been
    taking a friendly jab at Toyota and its product. :-)
  • soberssobers Posts: 496
    30% is a common figure if you went to dealer. Thats because dealer HAS to make profit on everything. So sombody debating 2000 Pasat and 2001 Accord I would adsvise him to go with 2001 Car or if he likes passat go with 2001 Pasat: 20 HP more wouldn't hurt !!

    VW has 2-24 compr and 10 year powertrain. Eventhough supply wasn't good for 99, it was ok for 2000 and 2000 swa some subsidized APR/Lease for end year Passat. 2001 supply will be even more
  • I don't believe the third brand thing has been denied, and in fact I think it is still being seriously considered. What was rejected is the concept of a third channel -- meaning a completely different sales and service network, like Lexus. Reasoning is that a third channel is expensive, would add many more layers of management, and would sever the connection of the third brand from Toyota, hurting both in the process. Of course, everyone (most everyone, anyway) knows that Lexus is owned and operated by Toyota, so I'm not sure that holds true -- but it would be far simpler to have a third brand with a dedicated showroom and shared service, say, than a whole new dealer network.
  • Looks like the dealer has already calculated depreciation. I compared a 2001 Passat GLS to the Accord LX and the Passat goes for close to $5,500 more.
  • Thanks for all your advice and counsel. I have made my decision and I have chosen the 2000 Passat. I took alot of your advice. I checked the car out carefully with a friend and there is no evidence that it was in an accident. I also asked directly and they said no. Also checked the service record, only oil changes over the 8000 km, no other warranty work done.I ran a check on the VIN and this verified the date the car was put in service, which coinciced with what the dealer had told me, and the fact that the car had not been registered to anyone else. I read the recommendation in the Lemonade book...and they advised an extended warranty. So I negotiated a reduced price for an additional 3 years warranty for a total of 5 years or 100,000 km. The insurer is a company called Autoshield, which the dealer said is good to deal with. No deductible if I bring the car to the selling dealer for extended warranty service, otherwise $50 per occurance (if I am out of town or in the USA). I hope I did not miss anything. I know the Honda would have been a good choice too but I was ready for a change. Hopefully it will turn out to be a good choice. One last thing...they want to sell me rustproofing and a teflon coating for the paint. I said no to the rustproofing. Does anyone have any experience with this teflon coating for the paint? I am a bit skeptical...$250 seems a little pricey (it also includes scotchguaring the interior) but I can do that myself for the cost of a couple of cans of Scotchguard! But the teflon? Anyway, thanks again to all for your valuable input. I will keep you posted.
  • this is my first time on this thread, but I just wanted to see what people were saying about the camry, which I own. I have a 2000 LeV6, but have never driven a Honda-unless you count the Acuras, but that's another discussion. I generally own european automobiles, but bought the camry as an extra car to just leave outside and use as a weekend workhorse for carrying junk and not worrying about getting dinged up in the mall etc. Anyhow, my opinion on the camry itself is this. It's truly like an appliance-ie a toaster or an oven. It requires no maintainence, but at the same time attracts no attention. It is truly just a functional automobile for those who do not enjoy driving, but need something to transport them from destination to destination. Whenever I start it, it starts. Whenever I need power, it gives me a relatively smooth onslaught. Whenever I touch the plastic, it feels like plastic. It does nothing whatsoever for my senses, as a leather interior would do on the smell, finely knotted interior carpeting would do on the legs, and fine grained wood would do on the eyes. That said, it works, but doesn't inspire any emotion in me. It's really just a very plain, very functional car. This leaves me torn, as I truly consider myself an automobile lover, and this car works perfectly in every sense of the word-which should make me love it, but somehow, its fundamental lack of idiosyncratic behavior ends up annoying me to no end. I don't know anything about the accord, so I can't really comment on it, but my question to all of you that read this thread is, does this total perfection affect your perception of your automobile? And that said, a more probing question. What do you consider an enthusiast? Someone who enjoys total perfection in an automobile or someone who seeks out the imperfections? I don't want to rub anyone the wrong way about this-I'm a Camry owner myself, and would not have bought it were it not for the "perfect" reputation it has. But, as I alluded to before, it peturbs me that it brings out no emotion in me, and I just want to know if any other owners feel this way.
  • 210delray210delray Posts: 4,722
    Skip the "teflon," it's just a gimmick. Just wash and wax your car as needed.
  • When I was 23, I bought a 1980 limited edition black , MOB. An emotional purchase if ever there was one. Three windshield wipers??..CO.. COOL makin akiny more ??? even better!!Love soon faded..I'mfaded.. I'mif it was when it stalled in the middle of the George Washington Bridge in the middle of a full gallop or when I flipped it (convertable convertiblear) on its side in the middle of February.Ahh love, emotioAshuickly turned to contempt...Give me a reliable, functional Asian over an emotional flakey European or aflakyn N e time..!American thIse days , I think an automobile bringing you attention is a BAD thing, at times possibly deadly..A future Camry owner...In keeping with the Carry.. I'm going to buy a foreign car for the first time in a while. Like the Acura TL's ...but I think Camry rides better than Accord or the TL...If I wanted to feel every bump in the road I would have kept the MGB...
  • maryg2maryg2 Posts: 33
    I drop in here once in awhile because I debated between the o1 Camry and the 01 Accord LX-6. I knew all the reasons to buy a Camry, but I could just not get excited about buying that car. I really tried, kept test driving it. At the time I had a 96 Accord LX. I finally went to look at the new Accord EX, and my heart skipped a little beat. The leather, sunroof, CD changer, dashboard, etc. all said this car would be luxurious and fun to drive. And I do love it. I know the Camry would be quieter and smoother, but I don't care!!!
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