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Honda Accord vs Toyota Camry

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  • number17number17 Posts: 69
    and that is a rumor I see no truth in. Why would Nissan make the Altima a similar size as the Maxima? Nissan already has the Sentra to compete against the econoboxes (Civic, Corolla, Protege, Golf... ), though it is a bit on the small side. It has the Maxima to compare against V6 Accord and Camry's, though the Maxima is a bit on the large side (bigger than Accord, Camry, Passat ... ). Thus the Altima to fill the gap between compact and full-size to compare against the 4cyc mid-sizes and upscale compacts. I see no reason why Nissan wants to make the Altima even bigger / equip it with a V6 engine to directly compete aginst its own car.

    I mean, if we are going to compare cars based on unfounded rumors, then I'd start comparing Accord V6 - 6spMT with sports suspension, sports package that includes 17" low profile rims, and a lower price than current MSRP.

    #17
  • amazonamazon Posts: 293
    I do not agree that the prelude would be a better car than the accord to compare to the GTI. The GTI is a lot roomier than the prelude. Probably pretty close to the accord coupe. Again, the handling characteristics and the transmission choices tell me that Honda accord (US version) is not a very sporty car.

    In truth, I don't think that the development costs for a v6 man. combo would be that high. Honda has manual transmissions overseas that can take 200+ hp. Maybe not the torque of a V6, but Honda's competence in manual transmissions should make it a breeze.

    It would be sad if a glorified slushbox (automanual) would kill the manual.
  • amazonamazon Posts: 293
    That would be the coolest car:
    "Accord V6 - 6spMT with sports suspension, sports package that includes 17" low profile rims, and a lower price than current MSRP."
  • amazonamazon Posts: 293
    You don't think that the Maxima is sporty due to its rear suspension, and I don't think the Accord is sporty due to its transmission. Different views both are right! :)
  • number17number17 Posts: 69
    "It would be sad if a glorified slushbox(automanual) would kill the manual."

    I agree completely. Semi-automatics are gimmicks. They are not the real thing. But that's the way Honda sees the NA market, and you cannot wrong them, if you look at the % of MT Maxima / Camry / 626 sold ..... sigh =(

    "I do not agree that the prelude would be a better
    car than the accord to compare to the GTI. The GTI is a lot roomier than the prelude. Probably
    pretty close to the accord coupe. "

    Not true. In terms of roominess, the GTI fits in between the Prelude and the Accord. The Accord is quite a lot roomier than the Golf / GTI, especially if you consider the rear legroom. The reason why GTI compares to a Prelude is both are compact coupes.

    Or put it this way - which is the most appropriate VW to compare to the Prelude?? I can't name a better match than the GTI - similar price range, similar size, same class (compact), and both cars go for the same market (sporty enthusiasts willing to dish out $25k).

    I mean, too bad the Corrado has been canned =(

    #17

    amazon - I agree. Sportiness - each can have their own definition. Just don't send the mob's after me = )
  • i work at a honda-nissan dealership and i can promise you that is not a rumor but a true fact.
    the altima is going straight up against the camry and the accord v6's and 4cyl's. the maxima is going to go up against the avalon, 3series bmw, etc. it is in the works.
  • my guess, it will be discountued in the next two years because of the fact people are going with the accord ex-vl coupe instead. @ same price and you do get ALOT more as far as options.
  • amazonamazon Posts: 293
    I won't. Just don't bring Ferrari into the discussion, Mkay?
  • number17number17 Posts: 69
    "the maxima is goingto go up against the avalon, 3series bmw, etc. it is in the works."

    Again, I'll believe it when I see it.

    First of all, Avalon is NOT in the same class as the 3series ... Avalon is in the same class of Crown Victoria, Impela .... full size sedans with heavy emphasis on comfort and safety. Boats. Tanks. Whatever you call them. 3-series on the other hand are sports compact sedans. They are in the same class as A4, IS300, argeuably S40 (half-hearted effort from Mistsubishi/Volvo) ....

    So, lets first make up you mind if you want the MAxima to go bigger and roomier, or smaller and sportier in your rumor, cos it can't be both. = )

    2nd of all, the Maxima underwent a major model revision in 2000 model, and you're saying a complete re-design is already in the works to move it away from its current class just 2 yrs into its new model?! What is the reason?? It can't be the increasing sale can it? = )

    I mean, there are rumors, and there are EDUCATED rumors.

    But let's focus on cars that are available, or verified news of near-future cars.

    #17
  • i guess i didnt realize that you sold or worked at a nissan dealership with all this knowledge you have. why cant the maxima get a redesigned body in 3 years. it took the pathfinder only 1.5 years to get one (one in 1999.5 and the other in 2001) and its not a rumor about the altima (straight from my gm, have you talked to one lately), so i would appreciate if you didnt make me out to look like i have no idea what i am talking about. oh, and why dont you go to a nissan lot and look at thier product guide on a maxima and look at page 6 and tell me that the maxima isnt in the same class as the avalon.
    maxima strenghts over the avalon:
    -more front head and leg room
    -more horses and torque
    -larger trunk
    -more standard features (gle)
    -larger, wider wheels
    -superior handling
    ****page 9 in the product guide if you still think its a rumor****
  • number17number17 Posts: 69
    I didn't want to point out the obvious, so I suggested keeping the discussion to cars available today, and verified news. But since you've asked ...

    You don't have to work at a particular dealreship, or for a particular company, or even talk to the GM to realize some crystal clear business strategies. I mean, last time I showed a Toyota sales how to open the trunk from the inside of a Celica .... I guess I didn't talk to the GM neither and still knew more than the sales. Anyways - why isn't Maxima in the same class as an Avalon - I can give you the 3 big reasons:

    1/ Different classes. Mid- vs Full size. Maxima is a big mid-sized sedan, but still a mid-sized only. Avalon is a full size. In case you forgot, Toyota has a mid-sized called Camry that is in the same class as the Maxima.

    2/ Completely different market focus - in case you've missed all the Maxima commercials, it features a car sliding across the watery surface, and emphasizes on the car's sportiness, bragging rights, 222hp, 5sp MT .... it is going for the sporty sedan market. Its targeted customers belong to the working family men with preference on sportiness.

    Avalon, OTOH, is marketed as a refined, luxury, safe, comfortable BOAT! Its predominant customers are retired folks looking for a safe, reliable car that they'll never take beyond 100.

    Hint- you see car mags comparing Maxima to Accord and Camry and Passat only, never the Avalon ...

    3/ Do I still need a #3? oh well, what the hell. Price. Maxima's MSRP range from Cdm$30k - $35k. Avalon's MSRP starts from Cdn$37k and goes well into $40k. They are in completely different price brackets.

    I hope that is clear as to why Maxima and Avalon belong to different classes ..... if you feel that I made you look like you have no idea what you're talking about, my apologies .... but I think you're the one who actually did that, but comparing 3-series with the Avalon .... I only responded to what you said.

    btw, Nissan didn't change the class of the Pathfinder in 2001 model.... I wouldn't even call it a complete model-revision. The 2001 is still very much based on the old Pathfinder platform. To get the Maxima from a mid-sized to a full size platform, you are talking about a new platform from scratch.....

    #17
  • but the fact is that most of my maxima customers so shop the avalon. and you may want to check your pricing on the maxima also because a loaded gle wont even top 30,000, which makes it a more attracted vehicle than the avalon. of course it still competes with the camry and the accord but the avalon is also thrown in there. and not a model revision for the pathfinder, are you crazy, new lines, new options, new engine, may i say more. i dont mean to get into a heated dispute on this topic because i deal in this everyday, you just jot down posts based on your beliefs, not information that i come across on a day-to-day basis.
  • number17number17 Posts: 69
    "because a loaded glewont even top 30,000"

    If you've even read my post, I said Maxima's range from *CDN*$30-35k. There's more than 1 currency in this world.

    "and not a model revision for the pathfinder, are you crazy, new lines, new options, new engine, may i say more"

    Before you start verbally attacking others, maybe you should at least take the time to read their posts.

    And new options and new engines defines a '*complete* model revision' (Again, read my post)?! A few more options, even engine options, would define a 'minor model revision', as a '*COMPLETE* model revision' includes revised body shape, revised interior, and most of the times strengthened chassis, suspension improvement ....

    Geez I can't believe I am explaining what a 'COMPLETE model revision' is to a car salesman .... but then maybe I shouldn't be surprised = )

    All the points I've listed are FACTS, not BELIEFS. If anyone is basing the discussion on unfounded information, that is the one who started the rumor of "Maxima moving to the bigger Avalon AND smaller 3-series class", and "Altima is going up-class". The fact you've repeated failed to respond to any of my major points raised is a pretty good indication who is basing the discussion on facts, who is just full of crap.

    I am not trying to get into a heated discussion, but either start to base your discussion on some substantial facts, or be ready to relax and not be so thin-skinned about it when others point out the flaws in your information presented.


    #17
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Wenyue:
    Taurus and aggressive driving. I could never do that. Good luck. FYI, the new Taurus is softer riding than it used to be!

    Adg44:
    So, 2002 Altima will compete with 2000/2001 Accord and Camry. Is this what you want to say? Remember, 2002 is a redesign year for Camry (five year cycle), and Accord will get some minor tweaks and facelift for 2001 (fourth year of current design) and redesign in 2003 (five year cycle).

    "the Maxima's multi-link rear beam suspension is an excellent design" Compared to what?

    Now you come to a point of comparing GTI and Accord/Camry. Do you really want to start that debate? Or should it belong to a different topic altogether?

    BTW, since you started on Nissan rumors, Altima goes mid-size (comparable to Accord, Camry, Passat), Maxima goes full size (comparable to Toyota Avalon, Buick LeSabre, Chrysler LH cars), what happens to I30? Also full size? Basically, I30 and Maxima are identical cars with minimal cosmetic changes, and I doubt that would change in 2002.

    1salesman1:
    I wouldn't say that they could not completely redo Maxima (and obviously, I30) in couple of years. Rapid redesigns seem to be the reason for Nissan's $37B in debt in just a few years. If Nissan really followed the same, I'd call the current design to be another short-sighted decision from them.

    I also remember and have quoted this incident before. Back in October '97, I was looking for a family sedan, and with the homework done, I was at a Nissan dealership to test drive Maxima ($5K cash back rebate was available). A sales person was sent to me. He asked me which other cars did I test drive. I mentioned Camry, Passat, Accord (all four bangers), and that I was here to check out the Maxima. He pulled out a sheet of paper and started reading,
    - '98 Altima has more power than Accord and Camry.
    - '98 Altima has better acceleration than Accord and Camry.
    - '98 Altima has more room than Accord.

    That was enough. I interrupted him, and asked for the printed comparisons. The small letters mentioned '98 Altima versus '97 Accord and Camry. Great idea, isn't it? I got up, and was glad to have a better sales person at another Nissan dealership.

    So it is not always what one is told.
  • amazonamazon Posts: 293
    Let's cool off a little, shall we?
  • wenyuewenyue Posts: 558
    robertsmx:

    haven't driven the 2000 Taurus yet. Don't really know what to expect, just looking at specs, on paper it looks pretty impressive. Hope it lives up to my expectation when I get to D.C.

    folks on the Maxima subject:

    Well, again you are get into the territory of personal perspective. Nissan Altima is bigger than a typical compact like Civic/Corolla, but smaller than a typical midsize Camry/Accord. So is the glass half full or half empty?

    Nissan Maxima, it's bigger than Camry/Accord, but smaller than the Avalon. In fact, it's almost exactly half way between these two catagory interm of size. Once again, is the cup half full or half empty?

    I think the EPA's offical stance is that Maxima is a midsize, they have to make the cut off somewhere. Probably because the Maxima carrys 5 people like the Camry/Accord, rather than 6 people in the Avalon.

    So what to think? Don't you just hate it when someone ask you a question that has no one right answer like that? ;)
  • ecarmackecarmack Posts: 161
    I own a 96 Camry and a 99 Accord and just wanted to chime in with this.

    After a year of ownership the Accord has a couple of serious door dings. I know they are a part of life, but it stinks to have such a large investment looking bad so quickly.

    The 4 yr old Camry has dings, but they are not as severe as the Accord's. When I tap on the metal on both cars, the Accord's is obviously thinner. I have also noticed other Accords on the road with some horrendous dents/dings. The Camrys don't seem to be as bad.

    I like both cars but I just wish Honda would use thicker sheet metal. Just something else to consider on top of their different personalities.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    ecarmack:
    I could never make out what causes dings. I could never make out why Accord and BMW 5/7 series seem to have more dings than their lesser cars (Civic and 3-series).

    I've had four so far, fixed for $20 each, and over three years, the dings have occured inconsistently, first in about six months, two within two days, and the last was about a year ago. None since then. Not one in my Prelude, about 8 months.
  • ecarmackecarmack Posts: 161
    I know kids in parking lots are a big culprit. I would hope the majority of adults out there are considerate enough to control their doors, but kids seem to just fling them open and are oblivious to what they hit. My young kids know not to open the doors. We will take care of it.

    Anyway, a couple of other observations to stay on topic. The interior materials on the Accord also seems to be cheaper than the Camry's. Both of my cars are 4cyl, but I enjoy the Accord with its extra power, better handling and 5 spd. It is actually half way fun to haul the kids in. My wife prefers the softer Camry. My kids probably do too. When they first rode in the Accord, my 3yr old said "This car is bumpy!"

    The Accord has 25k miles and the Camry has 80k. I also had a 93 Altima w/75k. I have not had one problem with any of them and would not hesitate in buying another Honda/Toyota/Nissan.
  • alingaling Posts: 598
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the Golfs/Jettas all built in Mexico and not Germany?
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