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General Motors Fans

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  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,204
    Heck, my wife and I have been holding the median age of Buick owners down. Imagine what it would be without us? Maybe they exclude us as statistical outliers?
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    LMAO!!!! ;)

    -Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    FEZO: Sounds like a homerun for Buick!!!! ;) Ford is just kicking some serious [non-permissible content removed]....GM needs to make a fullsize car to go against the Taurus. Maybe a RWD/AWD Impala with a 3.6 HF V6 w/ a optional Turbocharged version. GM needs to do the ecoboost thing with the 3.6 or 3.0 V6 IMHO

    dieselone: Yeah that Ram is a sweet ride. GM will have to go back to the drawing boards to one up that beast!!! ;)

    -Rocky
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,204
    Aren't they going to transform the G8 into a Caprice? If so, I hope there's going to be a civilian version.
  • I gotta admit the new Ford Fusion Hybrid is the first Detroit metal I have seriously looked at in years! 81.5 mpg driven by hypermilers on April 28, 2009. It's documented. What's not to admire here? Or there? Or in Detroit, eh?

    A big 'ole hearty close to the Canadian border EH to ya rockylee! So happy you're back here, man!

    Oh, just to avoid any possible confusion. I'm still living in SE Arizona. Just sending an EH shout-out to ya Northerners because of my being raised up living so close to Cananada. Washington state. Canadian misspelling was on purpose.

    Just joshin' ya Canucks. I mean...ummm...Canadians. Eh.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    You are pretty funny, iluv ;) .....I hope you and the family are all doing great. Glad to have a forum worth coming too. I'm just looking forward to GM's new products about to hit the shelf. It seems like ever new product launch the cars keep getting better. Hopefully one day in my lifetime "The Big 3" will really be the 3 largest automobile makers once again!!!! :shades:

    -Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    LOL....What do you mean by a civilian version, lemko???

    -Rocky
  • man, the new 9-5 Aero is one great looking sedan! I agree, don't 86 Saab, GM!

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,524
    Is Saab a profit center for GM? That's what it all needs to come down to analyzing. The car is nice, but is it similar to a VW CC?
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,204
    Well, I heard they were only going to transform the G8 into a Caprice just for the fleet market - i.e. police and taxi. I keep hearing all kinds of rumors about this car - the coolest that its styling will be inspired by the 1967 full-sized Chevrolet. If that's the case, I really want one!
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,398
    Well, Lutz said this recently:

    “If we can pull [the police car] off, then we want to take a look at reintroducing a civil version as a high-end Chevrolet,” Lutz said. “When you get down to it, the thrill of high performance dirivng is unmatched by anything that doesn’t have rear-wheel drive, bags of torque, and a nice transmission.”

    Take a look.

    Pontiac G-8 as a Chevy

    They'd be IDIOTS if they don't bring back the best Pontiac had to offer in decades. The good thing they are most likely going to make it a Chevy which makes PERFECT sense. We will see. Problem is, it takes sooooooooooooooo long to make good decisions at GM....still!!!

    Regards,
    OW
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    iluv & imidazol97,

    Would the new Saab 9-5 become a Buick??? How about the Buick Tiger??? :blush: :P

    I just wished GM, would invest in the R&D neccessary to save this brand. It could be a money maker if it was promoted right. Have our Swedish Detroit Pistons star Jonas Jerebko promote it along with other celebrities!!! :shades:

    lemko, this G8 theory on becoming a Caprice is most interesting. Are they going to stretch and widen the G8??? :confuse:

    -Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Thanks for the article OW!!!! WOW!!!! :surprise:

    -Rocky
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,524
    >How about the Buick Tiger???

    Bad choice of names. But you knew that before you posted it!!!

    How would the Saab fit between the Regal and LaCrosse?

    Remember, the new cars from GM have to be cars with what the workshop talking heads experts call the WOW factor. When people sit in them or see them, there has to be that feeling that this is great, that it's beyond expectations.
  • is a vehicle that would fit that "Wow!" criteria, indeed it would. I was the one, IIRC, that shared that little tidbit with all of you'all about the 2010 Saab 9-5 Aero become part of GM's Buick stable of finer motorcars. The guy who told me is sick to his stomach over Saab disintegrating.

    T'would really be a shame to see the new 9-5 get round-filed, IMO.

    Eh? ;)

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,524
    Let me expound a little on the "WOW" idea. The trend in some negative discussions is that GM can only succeed if they produce a vehicle that is so much better than certain competitors that the others just throw in the towel (I exaggerate).
    But as soon as GM produces a competitive vehicle, to wit the Malibu, the same folks start nit-picking each little item they can manager to glorify in the car they prefer and point out that the Malibu doesn't quite have enough pizazz; therefore the Malibu is worthless and not competitive.

    We brought in a motivational speaker long ago who used the WOW as a way of explaining how the person on the other end of the phone or the customer at a rental car location or anyone else can be impressed with the service or understanding of their needs or problem. A specific example was the speaker's having flown in to a busy airport to be greeted by National Rental with long lines. Then he remembered he had been sent an Emerald card for express service. He pulled it out, went to the stand alone vending machine, inserted card, chose his vehicle, and the keys spewed out of the spout. And he was on his way. His reaction was "WOW" that was great. The same WOW experience usually occurs with KOHL's such as returning gifts or other purchases, or calling a store to find an item the local store is out of in a size or color; the request is handled with a WOW.

    That's the same overall effect GM needs to have with its new vehicles. Not each item needs to be perfect or better than (insert preferred name of competitor living on higher-than-deserved past reputation), but overall the experience of test drive or test sitting should be WOW.

    Does the SAAB do that? I plopped myself into one a year or more ago. It was across from a ceramic flooring and tile store unique to the area but a bad, bad location from which to service the whole of Dayton. Too far from some areas of potential customers. I was impressed by the feel and the layout of the cockpit--except for the lack of front bench seats. I began thinking how that car could replace my 98 leSabre Limited. Not being a member of chronic car buyers anonymous I was able to not buy such a semi luxury car and saved the money.

    Will others react the same way as I?
    Does it fit with the laCrosse and the Regal cars being offered? Does it take sales from the other two instead of bringing in more sales? Does it fit with the Cadillac offerings or take sales from them? That's the problem I see for the SAAB continuing. I suspect it shouldn't.

    GM needs to be efficient and duplicitous in its offerings.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 22,138
    But as soon as GM produces a competitive vehicle, to wit the Malibu, the same folks start nit-picking each little item they can manager to glorify in the car they prefer and point out that the Malibu doesn't quite have enough pizazz; therefore the Malibu is worthless and not competitive.

    Well unfortunately there is some truth to that. In the Malibu's field, the heavy hitters are the Camry, Accord, and Altima. And by now, I wouldn't be surprised if the Fusion is outselling the Malibu. The Malibu is a good car, to be sure, but what is so compelling about it to get all those happy Camry, Accord, and Altima owners to jump ship the next time they make a purchase?

    Now I have a feeling that with Toyota's recent bad press about floormats and sticking gas pedals, that might sour a few people. And the Accord's latest redesign has taken some flak because it's gotten "too big" for some buyers. I'm not sure if the Altima has much controversy about it these days, although I think some people don't like its CVT, and I've heard that on some years of the 2.5, some bolts on the inside of the intake manifold can come loose, fall down into the engine, and create all sorts of surprises. So, these big sellers are mortal, after all.

    But, I'm sure the Malibu and Fusion aren't without their faults, although off the top of my head, I can't think of any particular trouble spots on the latest ones. But I'm sure someone can refresh my memory here. :P

    For the most part though, Camry, Altima, and Accord owners are happy with their cars, and keep coming back for more, so they must be doing something right. And while Ford and GM are making inroads again, they have a long way to go to recapture any remnant of their former glory. They are making a comeback though. Ford especially seems to have done quite well with the new Fusion.

    Let's say I was in the market for a new car. Say, something happened to my Park Ave and I needed another car. Nothing bad that would sour me on GM, like a tragic breakdown, but, say it got stolen or wrecked. So now, I'm in the market and want something a little smaller and a bit more economical, and I'm thinking midsized 4-cyl, like an Altima, Fusion, Accord, Malibu, or Camry. I should be an easier sell than someone who's been hooked on imports for years, and since I've had fairly good luck with GM and Chrysler, I shouldn't be biased against them. But still, what would be my motivation for buying a Malibu over those others?
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,524
    > what would be my motivation for buying a Malibu over those others?

    Go drive a new one. I had one as a rental for a day. 4-cyl, 4-speed, loved it. Nimble. Quick. The ride is probably like what you'd want from your Park Ave from what I've read of your assessment.

    I didn't get bounced around on every pebble and tar strip like an Accord. Brakes will last longer than 15,000 miles as on Accords. I didn't have trouble feeling the VCM cut in and out on the Accord. No shift lag as in the Camrys. No need to be alert for runaway electronics trying to kill me like Toyotas.

    Rentals are often stripped models and the basic trim, which I wouldn't be buying in the GM cars. So a rental isn't necessary the right test drive, but it lets you feel the car over a period of time.

    And it was built in Kansas City by a US car company which is trying.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,653
    I didn't get bounced around on every pebble and tar strip like an Accord. Brakes will last longer than 15,000 miles as on Accords.

    My dad has over 30k miles on his 09 Accord EX-L v6 and nothing has been needed but routine rotations,and oil changes and no he doesn't drive all highway. His commute to work is about 30 miles each way non highway mostly city driving. Plus he commutes to the north side of Chicago from Indiana once or twice a week. Meaning his foot is on the brakes as much as the gas. No brakes required every 15k miles. He averages 22-23mpg compared to the 20-21mpg his previous Ford Taurus averaged on the same commute, while having 70 less HP.

    I don't think there is anything wrong with the Malibu, but nothing compelling either. The fuel economy of the v6 doesn't match the competition, the interior IMO doesn't look and feel as nice as similarly trimmed Accord and the 3.6 IMO isn't as silky smooth as the 3.5 in the Accord and Honda's 5 speed trans doesn't hunt for gears like the 3.6/6speed. Maybe that has been fixed with the current models, but I've still read mags commenting on the lack of precision in GM and Fords 6 speed transmissions and I've witnessed it both the fwd transaxles and the 6 speeds used in the Denali/Escalade (but that was in 07 and 08 models) Ford had a similar problem in my 07 Expedition, but a software update has solved most of the poor shifting issues).

    I drove a Saturn Aura XR 3.6 for an extended test drive and I the trans often got confused on downshifts at speeds around 40-50mph, it seemed like it couldn't make a quick decision on whether to downshift 1 or 2 gears. Very annoying to me. The ride was firm, yet the handling felt to heavy. IMO, the Aura was impressive overall for a GM product but just so-so when looking at the competition. I would not buy the late Aura or current Malibu over an Accord, Altima or Fusion.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,398
    The Malibi and the Fusison are about 500 units apart in the 19K range in December '09.

    The Accord is 7K ahead of that and the Camry is almost double at 34K.

    Regardless of the one-off opinions here, it's the tale of the tape that spells if the product is great and the companies are thriving. The Malibu is good enough but not better as far as customers are concerned.

    May the best car win! Oh, right. They are. :shades:

    Regards,
    OW
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,525
    When it comes to what people buy, it's all about perception, which often lags reality, unfortunately. An example of that is a 40-year old guy I work with in our office, sharp guy. A professional. Not a car guy. Thinks GM's suck and Toyotas soar. When I mentioned to him about the gas pedal recall last month, he had no idea what I talked about and almost seemed offended I brought it up.

    I know styling is subjective, but I think the Malibu looks more upmarket, in the exterior styling, than the Fusion, Altima, Accord, or Camry. And I'm one of those neanderthals who still prefers to see a car built by a U.S. manufacturer, in a U.S. assembly plant, with U.S.-assembled engine and trans. I know I'll be made fun of for that, but I don't care. The Fusion is assembled in Mexico. I absolutely hate that about it, even though I hear it's a great car.

    Bill
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,398
    Toyota has caught GM disease. Now they are on the run. There is no excuse for the way they reacted to this serious defect. None.

    Today’s Nikkei [sub] says that the latest Toyota recall “is seen as a major dent in the side of the leading Japanese automaker’s reputation as a builder of reliable automobiles.”

    Financially, the recall “is not expected to have a major impact on Toyota’s earnings for the current year through March 31 because the company had more than 400 billion yen in reserves for dealing with recall costs at the end of the previous fiscal year.”

    However, the matter will most likely snowball: “The company is still investigating whether similar problems exist for models sold in other countries. But because the same accelerator pedal mechanism has been used in some European models, the recall may be expanded.”

    That’s the Nikkei in Tokyo. Not a bunch of posters on message boards. Note: Audi’s “unintended acceleration” set the brand back by nearly a decade in the USA, never mind that the NHTSA concluded that the majority of unintended acceleration cases were caused by driver error. A truly sticky accelerator can have more serious consequences, especially in the current environment, in which everybody fights for his own survival.


    It was GM, Ford and Chrysler's market to loose and they did. Now it's Toyota's turn.

    Regards,
    OW
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 22,138
    I know I'll be made fun of for that, but I don't care. The Fusion is assembled in Mexico. I absolutely hate that about it, even though I hear it's a great car.

    Actually, you're not alone. That hecho en Mexico feature is the one hangup I have with the Fusion. And it's not that I don't think the Mexicans can build a competent product. I'd just rather see it built here in the States. Although since my Intrepid was built in Canada, maybe that makes me a bit of a hypocrite?
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,398
    Well, when the UAW finally capitulate, perhaps most cars can be built here again. Not until then.

    Regards,
    OW
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,653
    I'd rather buy something made in the US, but I'm not going to buy something I don't like regardless of where it's made. GM builds plenty in Mexico too.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,525
    I'm aware of the HHR and Avalanche being built in Mexico. I think some (not all) full-size pickups may be, too. I am not aware of any passenger cars being built there.

    Bill
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,525
    Thanks, NAFTA.

    I never saw a single car built in Mexico for sale in the U.S. until after NAFTA passed. It was the kiss of death for my hometown's 80-year railroad car builder too. They moved to Mexico after NAFTA.

    Bill
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,653
    'm aware of the HHR and Avalanche being built in Mexico. I think some (not all) full-size pickups may be, too. I am not aware of any passenger cars being built there.

    I was referring to full-size trucks and SUVs. I don't know what percent are made there, but when I was shopping for SUVs in '08 almost every Yukon XL / Suburban I looked at were from Mexico. The Suburban I used to have was from Mexico.

    No, I'm not aware of any GM cars made there.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,653
    never saw a single car built in Mexico for sale in the U.S. until after NAFTA passed.

    I had an '89 Mercury Tracer that basically was a rebadged Mazda 323 that was made in Mexico.
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