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Mazda Millenia

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Comments

  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Having just removed another message, let me ask that you not "explain" your behavior. Let's move on and talk about the subject.

    If any further explaining or arguing needs to be done, it needs to done off-line.

    Pat
    Sedans Host
  • fwatsonfwatson Posts: 639
    It is really a very simple matter. If you want or need the extra HP of the S. And are willing to pay for it, both initially and in scheduled maintenance as well as more expensive fuel. By all means buy the S, if you have narrowed your choice down to a Millenia.

    If you do not need the performance advantage of the 2.3L Miller Cycle Supercharged engine, save a bundle now and later by buying a P. The other additional standard equipment on the S is of no value to anyone using the car for general transportation. In addition the larger wheels, thus skinnier rubber, make for a harsher ride

    If you are that performance minded though, there are other cars just as reliable as the MMS for the same price (MSRP) that will run rings around it. If an additional 40 HP is worth $3000, then it should be no problem to pay perhaps another $2000 and have 255 HP. :)

    Simple.

    Frank

    Edit:

    Quote:"#1759 of 1774 Cabin air filter by phild_mason Jun 12, 2002 (06:14 am)
    Has anyone replaced their cabin air filter? How hard is it? Do you have to pull the dash apart?"

    I am not even sure if the MM has a cabin filter. I have been wondering about this too, so I will do some checking and see what I can find out. Also, someone else here might have an answer for us.
  • zfun4ne1zfun4ne1 Posts: 5
    I think I can speak as an authority on this. I had a '99 Base (P) for 2 1/2 years and now have a 2001 S for the last 6+ months.

    The S is the superior car (could you really say if the S and the P were the same price that you would get the P?). The S has 40 more HP and comes standard with traction control, bigger wheels and a better sound system.

    However, the S costs more. So it really comes down to what is the price point that the S is worth the money over the P. To me, it's something in the $2000 - $2500 range but since money and budgets are a personal matter it's really up to the individual.

    This argument is something like who is the better home run hitter - Barry Bonds or Sammy Sosa?

    You can also check my post #1679 on May 11.
  • silvercrownsilvercrown Posts: 237
    I have been following this board for the past couple of months, every since I discovered that the Millenia may be within striking distance pricewise, due to heavy discounting by Mazda. I have read these last few posts with some surprise at the intensity of some of the comments and finally felt like adding some input.

    I think that fwatson's post #1774 sums it up best. How much HP is really enough? Especially these days, as even "family" cars are getting close to the 300 mark. Not too long ago, 170hp would have been plenty. It seems the more we have, the more we want and our expectations grow very quickly.

    I currently drive a 2000 Toyota Camry LE V6. It's nice car and the V6 is very smooth and powerful in my book. 194 hp is plenty for me, I don't even think I get to really use the full power potential for most of my "normal" driving. If I really tried to, I'd probably get a speeding ticket. I did choose the V6 over the 4 cyl because I did want the additional power and it was worth it to me for the price at that time. I also chose it because my previous car was a V6 with 200 HP, so I wanted to stick with the same amount of power to which I was accustomed. I now wonder if I would have even noticed the difference between the Camry 4 and 6 and if I could have saved some $$$$ and still have been content with my car's performance. I guess I'll never truly know about that ...

    I admit that I was a bit surprised that the Millenia P was a V6 and only had 170hp, but it's a smaller engine than the one in my Camry, which is a 3.0, so it sort of makes sense. This may make the Millenia more fuel efficient, but I don't know about that. I think I get pretty decent gas mileage for a V6 car in my Camry. Would I really notice 20 fewer "horses" in my normal driving? Maybe not so much that I feel like I'm in a horse and buggy instead of a modern automobile. Would 40 extra HP be worth the price differential? For me, probably not. For my basic needs and expectations (not to mention budget), I'd probably be satisfied with the base Millenia at this time. But that's just my opinion, others may value the extra power that much more. And that's okay.

    What always gets me when I read these boards and other editorial and consumer reviews is how often cars are criticized so harshly. Family cars are criticized for not being sporty. Reliable family cars are knocked for being "boring". There are so many labels and unfair expectations when it comes to evaluating vehicles.

    Different types of cars have different purposes. They are what they are. It's unwise to expect a family car to drive, look and behave like a Corvette or a Porsche. If you want that level of sportiness, then you should look to that type of vehicle and not to the mainstream family class of vehicles. Sometimes I think people look at a basically good vehicle and find reasons to downrate it. That's sad but I guess we can just take various opinions for what they're worth and form our own. It's great that we have the freedom to voice them.

    I have admired the Millenia for a long time. I think it is a great combination of a luxury and sport. It has beautiful sharp styling that is elegant with a bit of a sporty edge. It's a nice combination and a great looking car. And it seems to be very reliable. That rates it pretty high in my book. One vehicle cannot be all things to all people, but the Millenia has most of the attributes I would want in my next car.

    I was really disappointed to learn that this is the last year for the MM. The upcoming Mazda 6 sounds very promising, but it seems like a replacement just for the 626 and not for the Millenia as well. I understand the philosophy behind the new name, but I prefer actual names for cars instead of numbers and letters. Millenia is a great name for a car, it's a shame to lose it. I'm still curious to see the new 6 when it arrives, though.

    I received a test drive offer via email from Mazda. I plan to visit the dealership within the next week so I can see for myself how the Millenia operates. I may compare the S and the P, or I may just drive the P. I may even take the Protege for a spin while I'm there. It may be a bit too small for my tastes (I'm used to a midsize car and I like the smooth ride quality of my Camry), but I think it's a real sharp looking small car. As small cars go, it's quite striking and it has some great features.

    I have no idea when I may trade for a new car, it depends on quite a few factors. I'm in no hurry. Either way, the Millenia is still on my radar screen and I think it is a very impressive car, in both the P and the S versions.

    Sorry to go off on a rant here. LOL

    Just my 2 cents. :-)
  • milleniaman1milleniaman1 Posts: 110
    I still say the S is worth the extra money....I traded my 99 P for an 01 S in October. I never felt like the P had enough power. I have really enjoyed having the extra 40 horses. I have also enjoyed the Bose, which I didn't have before.
  • fwatsonfwatson Posts: 639
    You make a very evenhanded contribution. Thanks for being open minded.

    I have nothing major to add. I am just answering the matter you posed about fuel milage. The smaller V6 does not get appreciably different milage than the 3.0 in the Camry. My averages are 20 city, 27-28 highway with an overall average of just over 22. Very typical milage for a 3300 to 3400 pound car. That is almost exactly the range shown on the window sticker. The P and S get almost identical mileage if driven the same.

    Edit: I just read the above post after making mine. Regarding the Bose. It is a fine sound system. However, the standard sound system in my 2001 P is also excellent. I was offered the Bose at a huge discount, and turned it down.
  • nvedraninvedrani Posts: 58
    I think that milleniaman or other previous OWNERS of BOTH vehicles is 'really" one of the only people who can comment on the P vs S accurately. How can someone say this is better, or that is better, when they haven't thoroughly driven each for an extended period. Granted I have driven both (my mother was looking at the 2002 P Fully Loaded) and it was a great car (for her)...It just simply didn't pull onto or accelerate like my 2000 S does. That said, milleniaman has driven both vehicles FOR AN EXTENDED period, not just a 1/2 hour test drive.
    Overall though, I agree with silvercrown, it is a personnal opinion to be left up to the individual buying the car, BUT anyone interested should at least drive BOTH to see for themselves.
  • maltbmaltb Posts: 3,572
    When my dad was looking for a car I suggested he try the Millenia. He knew it came in both forms and said he wanted nothing to do with a supercharged car as it just meant more could go wrong. Money has never been an issue, but he's such a practical person that he only got rid of his diesel Jetta after mom wrecked it with 275k miles.

    Anyway, I took him for drive in a P and he said, this is great, I'll take it. I suggested that he drive the S first so he did. After about 2 blocks, he said forget the P, this is the one he wants. I tried to remind him of his comment about things going wrong but he was already hooked by the smooth power.

    So at 65, dad loves his S and mom has another Jetta.
  • tomekktomekk Posts: 310
    Silvercrown,

    I agree with you 100%.

    I used to have 172HP Passat GLX - I test drove Millenia P and thought that's great. That'll do! But then, just out of curiosity, I drove the S... and got hooked on the power rush and sc whine. Because it was only 2K more at the time I decided to go for the S - I paid $26K even, it stickered at 32.5 - I'm sure you can get better deal now.

    Another factor was that I thought S handled better and stayed completely flat in curves. Now I know (thanks to this forum) that there is a reason for it - it has rear antiroll bar.

    So, that's my $0.02 . . . and to each his own! Let's be tolerant of different opinions, I'm sure Frank W wouldn't have paid 2K more for an S, and I respect that.

    Tomek
  • joe2617joe2617 Posts: 88
    Nobody has mentioned the fact that gas mileage is almost exactly the same in both models. That was Mazda's original marketing strategy 40 more hp with low gas mileage.
  • tomekktomekk Posts: 310
    Right on the money, Joe - last weekend I drove 440 miles in my S (80% highway @ ~70mph) that used 15.5 gallons -> works out to 28.4 mpg. That with 3 people in the car and quite a few New Hampshire hills on the way.
    In city traffic I get 21-22 consistently (was 20-21 in winter).
    Tomek
  • fwatsonfwatson Posts: 639
    Quote:"Nobody has mentioned the fact that gas mileage is almost exactly the same in both models."

    Quote post 1778 fwatson1:"The P and S get almost identical mileage if driven the same."
  • vp123vp123 Posts: 4
    I own a 2000 "S". I am generally happy with my car, but I have been experiencing problems with the original dunlop 215/50/17 tires. I have approx. 13,000 miles of driving on these tires (I run snow tires mounted on steel wheels from Nov. to Apr.). Last summer, I noticed a bubble on the sidewall of one of my tires. I went to a dunlop tire dealer, and he told me it was an "impact break" in the sidewall, and the tire would have to be replaced. I have never hit a curb, but it may have been from a pothole. The tire was not covered under a road hazard warranty, so I had to pay out of my pocket. To my dismay, the same thing happened to another tire this week. One of my buddies drives the identical car as mine, and he has also had this problem with 3 of his tires. I was wondering if anyone else has had this problem? I have also noticed that there is not a lot of tread left, so I have decided to replace all 4 tires. I will go to an "H" rated tire, instead of "V", and hopefully that will extend the life of the tire.
  • fwatsonfwatson Posts: 639
    Obviously a tire problem has to be settled with the tire manufacturer. I once had General tires on a Dodge van. Three out of four threw their tread on the highway. My only out was to replace the tires at my expense, then never again buy a General tire. I did just that.

    I have a long way to go on my Michelin XM4V's (less than 6000 miles so far), but have also thought of going to an H tire when they are due for replacement. There really is no reason for a V rating on this type car as far as I can see, and the H would most likely be smoother and quieter than the V. I would do some research on tires before buying though. It's something you are stuck with for a couple of years anyway. That can be a long time with lousy tires.
  • juliziojulizio Posts: 18
    I also have a 2000 MM ME. The original tires, mainly the front, wore out after 20,000 miles. I went for my normal rotation and the guy told me he couldn't do it because they were worn so bad. He showed me and sure enough, the belt was actually coming thru the side wall. When I took it to a tire place to have new tires put on, they told me it was because of low air pressure. Not sure if I really beleive them, never saw what the pressure was.

    I went ahead and changed all four tires then. I went up a size to 235/45/17. They fit on the stock rims without a problem and the are the exact same circumference as the original Dunlops, 820 revs per mile. I got the Kumho's from Just Tires. Nice looking tire with an aggressive tread pattern. The installed price including road hazard, was $496.00. They're W rated. I'm not sure if an installer will install H rated tires on a car that requires Z rated.
  • fwatsonfwatson Posts: 639
    Quote:"They're W rated. I'm not sure if an installer will install H rated tires on a car that requires Z rated."

    No car "requires" Z rated tires. Any properly sized tire can be installed on your car at your request. If they are the right size, it is your choice as to what to install on your own car.
  • jmadamsjmadams Posts: 3
    I also have a 2000 S model but haven't had any problems with the tires. I have always made sure they contain the proper air pressure. At 20K miles I had them rotated. Now at 40K, they're in great shape and will rotate them again at 50K. I estimate they'll last until about 60K. - John
  • nvedraninvedrani Posts: 58
    21,000 miles on my 2000 S ME and no wear at all....car is for sale though, silver Millenium Edition - $19,500 - all options - garaged. Just switched my pre-order from the RX-8 to the G35 Sports Coupe due out in November - absolutely stunning with 282HP and finally a 6 speed manual. Good luck with everyone's Millenias, I know I'll miss mine!!
  • greg114greg114 Posts: 5
    Loose gas cap caused the check engine light to come on this morning in my '99 Millenia. The light won't go out after properly tightening the cap. I'm I stuck to going to the dealer and paying to have it scanned, and reset?

    Thanks, Greg
  • fwatsonfwatson Posts: 639
    I think from what I have read that you should wait a few days and see if it resets after a few start cycles. If someone else has better information on this, hopefully they will post it. All I am saying is don't jump the gun because it isn't hurting anything, and may resolve itself.
  • lyons4lyons4 Posts: 21
    Greg,
    I had a 1995 L MM and when washed the engine bck in February the engine light came on.I left the car running for a good while to dry it out,but the light still was on.I'd turn off the engine & turn it bck on and the light was still on.
    What I did was unplug my battery cable & waited
    for a few minutes & plugged it bck up.The light was out & never came bck on again.I'm not sure what happened here.It might have reset something when I did that.
    Someone else can on the board can answer this.
    That's my experience.I hope it helps.
  • phillykidphillykid Posts: 1
    Hi all,

    I'm considering buying a '97 Millenia S with 56,000 miles from a private seller. The research I've done indicates this is a pretty solid investment but I still have some hesitations. Can anyone comment about this car's reliability, especially in light of the fact that it will be discontinued? I'm also worried about high maintenance costs down the road, especially with the Miller Cycle engine, which seems to be not as common as other engine-types.

    I appreciate the advice!!

    Mugz
  • steevo2steevo2 Posts: 33
    To Mugz, I'd just like to offer some comments.

    I purchased my '97 Millenia S off-lease with 39,000 miles on it. It now has about 64k miles and I still love it. Problems I've had: interior lighting got intermittent, turned out to be a sticky door switch ... took it out and cleaned it and that fixed that. Engine runs great ... lots of acceleration power at highway speeds. You'll have to get used to the auto-shift points when the engine is cold. The engine will tach to 3500+ before shifting out of second which drives me nuts. The solution, just press the Hold button on the shifter when you want it to shift, when it does, release the Hold button. After aboutd 4 - 5 minutes, it will shift normally.

    I love the Bose stereo. I'm in the audio business and this one sounds great ... not all hyped up in the low end like most these days.

    Current problem: Lazy tilt-away steering wheel. The motor in it seems to be very sluggish and sometimes doesn't work at all.

    Overall, it has been a great car and I plan to keep it for several more years. Good luck.

    Steve
  • matrix80matrix80 Posts: 1
    Ok well i just bought a 1996 MM and it doesnt have a manual. The problem is i dont know how to shut the AC off :) Thats kind of sad but i would like to drive with the windows down and stuff and i dont need the AC on all the time. I have the L model. If someone can help me i would be very appreciative.

    Also should i put premium gas in it or does it really matter? What kind of Oil is best for it? Thanks in advance
  • mudpuddlemudpuddle Posts: 26
    After many loyal years with General Motors, I bought a new 2002 Mazda Millenia P Special Edition today. My GM cars have always been good running, dependable vehicles (Pontiac, Chevy, GMC truck), but the deal I got on this Millenia was just too good to be true. I passed on the super charged Miller 2.3 Special Edition. The 2.5 6 cyl seemed to have enough power for my needs. I tested both, but "settled" for the 2.5 with 170 hp. I could feel a difference with the 2.3 SC engine, but not enough of difference to make me spend the extra 2 grand. The sticker on my purchase was $31520 and I paid $23500 + $149 documentaion fee + tax + title fee. Basically, $8020 off sticker !!! I tried to work the dealer (in Tennessee) a little lower, but this seemed to be the best he could do. I know that this is the last year for the Millenia, so now is the time to make a deal if you're in the market for one. I opted for the special edition package because I liked the 17" titanium finish wheels and ivory leather interior. Black wasn't my first choice in exterior colors, but since the special edition models only come in black, that's what I got. In addition to the standard features that come with the special edition, I also got the moonroof deflector, auto dimming mirror with compass, cargo net, in dash 6 disc cd changer, 4 seasons package, and Bose sound system with 9 speakers. I'm not buying into the extended warranties. I'm hoping that Mazda reliability will at least be as good as the GMs I've dealt with.
  • fwatsonfwatson Posts: 639
    I've had my '01 P through a lot of mudpuddles, and a few driving rains in it's first 6300 miles. Totally water tight, and rock steady in those conditions.

    The SE is beautiful, but I don't envy keeping that shiny black paint looking good.

    A couple of notes to help you get off to a good start. You have already stated your acceptance of the 170 HP, and I too find it plenty. The other thing is that the transmission shifts much differently than those GM cars. GM has the smoothness down pat, but expect some shifting in the Millenia when you are not expecting it. At least until you become accustomed to it. This is completely normal from my experience, and from many posts and tests I have read. It is apparently harmless, as Millenia does enjoy a huge reliability advantage over those GM's you have had. And if you park the MM next to a GM and compare fit, finish and overall quality, it is no contest in favor of the MM.

    My other car is a '95 Olds 88. It has been always garaged, and had excellent care. But has had MANY problems. Comparing it's assembly to my MM startles me at times.

    Enjoy your new SE. You got a great car, at an excellent price (compared to CamCords etc)and the MM is in a class above those.
  • mudpuddlemudpuddle Posts: 26
    I looked at everything before I bought the Millenia...Accord EX, XG350 (Hyundai), Impala, Grand Prix GTP/GT, Altima 3.5SE, Diamante, etc. I didn't even look at the Camry. Toyota dealers in my area are very hard to deal with. There's an attitude associated with selling Toyotas, and I've never been comfortable dealing with them. The Accord has the HP, but the Millenia has standard equipment not even available as options on the Accord. The XG350 was considered, but the nearest dealer is 30 miles away. I'm not sure Hyundai has achieved long term quality levels yet either. The Altima still has the cheap looking interior .... especially the interior door panels ....terrible. Nissan puts emphasis on HP and very little on comfort. Anyway, I read through the Millenia manual last night and I was surprised to see that premium gas is "preferred" in even the 2.5. It mentioned that regular is Ok, but to obtain max power, use premium. This is something I'll be experimenting with. I plan on changing my own oil in the Millenia after I get the first complimentary change from the dealer. I found the oil filter last night when I slid under the car. It looks like it will be a fairly easy task. I'll probably use Mobil 1 10w30 in summer and 5w30 in winter. I was glad to see that 5w20, which is used in other models , isn't the preferred weight for the Millenia. I noticed that the Millenia 2.5 6 cyl has 2 belts, not one serpentine belt, for the alt, ps, water pump, etc. The only thing that puzzles me about the Mazda 2.5 6 cyl is the lack of a timing chain. Does anyone know why they use a belt(which should be changed at 60K miles)? This is the first 6 cyl that I've owned that has a timing belt. I know that a lot of 4 cyls have the belts. That's my only complaint so far.
  • Many foreign cars use timing belts even on V6's. I have had Accords, Legends and currently have an Acura RL with V6's and timing belts. Over the years Honda has extended the change duration from 60k to 90k to 105k. I think the Millenia P is also up in that category. The S requires it at 60k.
  • fwatsonfwatson Posts: 639
    phild_mason is correct in saying the timing belt on the P does not require replacement until 105000 miles. That is in the maintenance section of your owners manual, and in the Gates belt replacement guide on their web site. The reason for a belt instead of chain is it is quiet. No mechanical noise from it.

    I have run 87 octane in my P since new, except for one tank of 89 and one of 93 (original dealer fill). I see absolutely no difference in either performance or fuel milage. I think you will get the same results.

    I bought an adjustable oil filter removing tool from Discount Auto Parts that has a 3/8 inch square hole for a ratchet. That along with an 8 inch extension makes filter removal downright easy. It also fits the slightly larger filter on my Oldsmobile. Sorry, I threw the package away, and don't see a name on the tool. It is black, has a lightweight spring across the inside, and on the back says "Made in USA--Caution Wear Gloves". I also installed a Fram SureDrain valve in place of the oil drain plug. You will be amazed at how easy these two tools make an oil change. I use a high quality floor jack under the left front wishbone to raise the car enough to comfortably reach the filter and drain valve.

    My experience with the Toyota dealers was that they are arrogant. They simply couldn't believe I had the nerve to try to pay less than MSRP for their product. Toyota also has a nasty habit of making you buy $3000 worth of unwanted add-on's to get a 30 dollar option you want. No thanks.
  • I know I read posts among these 1800 messages, but because there is no "Search" feature I have to bring this up again:

    I purchased an '02 P model yesterday (color: two-toned pearl white/sand) and I love it! However, there is a problem with glare of the rear "dash" (for lack of a better word to call it) in the rear window, which is kind of aggravating. Does anyone recall the solution to the problem from the previous posts? Or, is there a solution? Any suggestions?
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