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Mazda Millenia

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  • I did notice that the orange light goes on when I turn on the seat heaters. So I guess fuses can be ruled out. I am thinking it is most likely a connection that came apart under the seat. Anyone know what exactly to look for under there? Must be a dozen different wires hanging around.
  • heybrady: How did you manage to get down and look under the seat? I doubt if the seat heaters are very effective. It is a 20 amp fuse protecting the heater system. The voltage is 12 volts. The current draw by the heater coil(s) is less than 20 amperes or the fuse would blow almost every use. Let's assume the worst case, 19 amperes at 12 volts = 228 watts. That is not enough heat to warm anything! and it is likely less than 19 amps - more like 15 which is 180 watts. Just like my old Volvo with leather seats, totally useless. The only other car in our family that had heated seats was my wife's 1985 Audi 5000. The heat was more than adequate. I checked my 2000 MM S again yesterday without the heater switch off and the heat from under my tail was strictly body heat, same exactly as earlier that day with switch on.
    fairwood
  • Fairwood. I have used the seat heaters a couple of times, but it was last spring on the occasional cold day. I thought they worked pretty good. Nice and toasty within 5 minutes or so. I had to kneel on the ground and bend my neck like a giraffe to see under there. Dont know if there is any way I can fit my hands though. Will try it sometime today.
    Brady
  • AUGHHH!!! Outside temperature was about 50F and I drove about 4 miles to a friend's house, stayed about 45 minutes, started my 2000 MM S with 38,000 miles on the clock and it ran rough as h*ll, as though only 3 cylinders were firing and the motor was tumbling, shaking the car a bit. That settled down within 10 seconds or less and of course that bane of all Mazda owners - the Check Engine Light - flashed for a few seconds then stayed on steadily.
    Car ran normally, rpm's normal, really took off when gas pushed hard, etc. Drove 4 miles home, turned engine off, then re started and light came on again. Let it cool for 3 or 4 hours and went out and of course light came on again. I have always used premium gas, currently about 3/4 tank used with a bottle of injector cleaner put in at time of fill up. This was a preventative measure, not a necessary thing. I did this once before at around 34,000 miles.
    If I am to believe other posts here and on other Mazda help sites then it is the 02 sensor or sensors (there are 4 of them I believe), or several other mysterious computerized sensors.
    I have always turned my gas cap at least 4 turns on every car I have owned over the past 20 years or more and it is not the gas cap being loose. Yesterday I did top up the coolant reservoir with about 10 oz. of water and the system hissed when I opened the cap. The car had been sitting overnight so was cold. That would indicate that the gasket is in good condition and the system is well sealed to hold the positive pressure that long. If I am to believe many other posts here then the light should go off in a day or two. Then it will come on again, then off again, the....... well you get the idea. I do have extended warranty which covers most things including the timing belt. As I have stated in previous posts, this is the first car in years that I can't wait to get in and just go. It is also the first car I have owned in close to 50 years that scares the h*ll out of me for all the electronic sensors that seem to go belly up at the drop of a hat. Is the bar open yet?? fairwood
  • I am surprised that no one has been here since the 4th (now the 6th). Anyway, after 6 or 7 local trips last few days the light finally went out. Thinking back on it I believe what happened was this: Just as the motor was catching I might have let go of the key just a tad too soon (this has happened to us all at one time or another I am sure)and the engine tumbled a bit but did catch. This may have caused a slight misfire and the O2 sensors are very sensitive to such matters and after a number of starts with no further problems the computer clears itself. It may retain the code or may clear it out. No matter, it looks like I can breathe again and stop sitting on the edge of the seat. What is the procedure or whatever to join in tomorrow's open line at 9pm eastern time? Hello - anyone there? fairwood
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Thanks for asking, fairwood, I was going to post this anyway:

    The weekly Mazda chat returns as "Mazda Mania" tomorrow night at 9pm EDT/6 pm PDT!

    Click on this link at that time: /direct/view/.ef1b553

    (The link can also be accessed from the Town Hall Welcome page, BTW - just scroll down looking on the right for the chat icon. The Mazda Mazia Chat will have its own icon soon.)

    Hope to see everyone there!

    :-)
  • fwatsonfwatson Posts: 639
    As far as your ck engine light is concerned, it seems to be a bugaboo in all brands. It even came on intermittently in my Oldsmobile when the brake fluid was low. Go figure that one. And it seems that it usually has little significance except for pollution control.

    By the way, your inference the Mazda electronic sensors "seem to go belly up at the drop of a hat", isn't borne out by anything else I have seen. I believe they are just doing the job that our governments require. I read on the BMW and other sites of the same problems with ck engine lights.
  • I had the opportunity today to compare my Canadian Mazda Millenia owner's manual for 2000 with the American version. Some interesting little tidbits and differences, including the pollution control requirements in each country. Of special note here is that it states the Check Engine Light can be triggered by a blown fuse in the "cabin" as they call it. So you blow a fuse for the sunroof tilt or something that you might seldom if ever use and be plagued by the engine light being on but the car running in top notch condition. We have a number of after market auto parts outlets but none that I know of have the free code readouts like you have (Pep Boys etc). From what I have read here and on other sites the Mazda dealers charge up to $70 (U.S. dollars) just to take a code reading. Someone has to pay for all that computerized equipment, but all at once? fairwood
  • fwatsonfwatson Posts: 639
    Mazda uses OBDII which can be read out by any auto repair shop. The connector is required to be accessible on all of them, so I don't see why it would cost more to check a Mazda than Ford. My Chevy/Olds dealer charged me $55 to read out my '95 Olds 88. The part I remain confused on is whether all codes are stored now, or if the light has to be on when you go to the shop.
  • steevo2steevo2 Posts: 33
    97 Mill-S. 79K miles. Check engine light on. AutoZone checked the codes and got errors on 2 O2 sensors, MAF sensor and #6 cylinder misfire. I read comments by a Mazda mechanic on another forum that 80% of the O2 sensors that he replaced were not bad. Since I've been using the 87 octane for a few tank fulls I'm wondering if I might have just 'gunked up' something. Maybe a bottle of Techron and back to the premium gas will clear things up ... or is that just wishful thinking? I'm going to try it anyway and report back. Stay tuned...
  • sdasda Indian Land, SCPosts: 333
    My check engine light only came on once in my '98 2.5 V6. While having my oil change the tech convinced me to clean the fuel system. It was running perfectly, but I told him to do it. Left the shop and engine light was glowing. Drove it a couple of days and it reset and never came on again. Now in my Cadillac Catera, I couldn't keep the check engine light off. I can't tell you how many times it went to the dealer for this. I finally gave up, and while the light was off, sold the car at a tremendous loss. I think Check Engine lights are a real problem (and pain) across all makes and models.

    2010 Pilot EXL-RES, 2013 Accord EX

  • fwatsonfwatson Posts: 639
    87 octane won't "gunk up" anything. But the computer would change the timing to compensate for the octane. 87 octane is actually cleaner than higher numbers, because it lacks the additives that increase the octane rating. It has probably just triggered the O2 sensors.

    I would just go back to 91 or 93 octane and see what happens. Premium is REQUIRED on the supercharged engines. However there is a TSB concerning Premium causing carbon deposits on the valves in the non-supercharged engine. According to that TSB all P models should now be run on Regular 87.
  • steevo2steevo2 Posts: 33
    Thanks for the info fwatson. Assuming the sensors are actually OK, will the check engine light go out ... or will I have to reset it in some way. I plan to run a bottle of Techron through the next tank of 93 octane. We'll see what happens if anything.
  • fwatson is correct in that Mazda now advises to use regular (87 octane) in the P models. Stay with 91 or higher for the supercharged 2.3L engines.
    steevo2: yes the Check Engine Light should go out after 6 or 7 starts/stops. This seems to be the normal run of events after a "minor" problem has triggered the light. Minor in my case was a tumble when the engine started and perhaps a bit of extra unburned fuel entered the exhaust system. That seems to be enough to trigger the O2 sensor(s) and if the situation was temporary or a one-time event then the computer will reset itself eventually. In my recent case it took 6 or 7 starts over a period of 2 or 3 days to clear itself, (permanently I hope). I don't know for sure but I don't think 6 or 7 starts/stops over a period of several minutes will do the trick. I think the time element is part of the equation.
    Other Mazda sites also mention a similar time element etc. If the light stays on or worse, if it continues to blink or flash then you have a more serious problem and you should have a dealer check it out. First stop would be to AutoZone or some other outlet that will read the code(s) for free. Take it from there whether you see your dealer. As far as resetting the light on your own, it is possible to do so by removing the negative battery cable from the battery for one minute and reconnecting. This will lead to all programmed features being lost such as radio station presets, the clock(s) and I assume the keyless remote program settings. Not a good way to do it. fairwood
  • skspghskspgh Posts: 28
    Thanks all. I called the dealer and indicated that a TSB for my corroding chrome wheels was available. He checked up on it - called the local rep and got approval to change all 4 rims! Yes! My car will finally be back to working normally again.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Don't miss the newest addition to our live chat events here in Town Hall. Join us every Tuesday from 6-7pm PT/9-10pm ET for our Mazda Mania Chat!

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    /direct/view/.ef1b553

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  • fwatsonfwatson Posts: 639
    Quote: "Yes! My car will finally be back to working normally again. "

    Great, sometimes a little knowledge pays off when addressing service departments. Also when buying.
  • tomekktomekk Posts: 310
    Well, my MM S is in service today, got a loaner - Mazda 6. Fire it up - guess what... check engine light! 4K miles on that Mazda 6. Unbelievable.
  • The check engine light came on about 3 months ago on my '02 P - 25,585 miles. I immediately took it in to have it checked. I was told that there would be an $80 charge if it turned out that the gas cap wasn't turned tight enough. I told them I would take the car and return in a few days before I'd commit to a possible $80 charge for not having my gas cap on tight enough. They ended up waving the possible fee and an hour later told me it was the gas cap. I was relieved I put up a fuss. 2 days later the check engine light came on again, and it hasn't gone off since. I've been reading the boards and assumed it must be the O2 sensor and didn't do anything about it. I took the car in today and again was told I would be charged $80 if it was the gas cap. This time I didn't put up a fuss knowing that wasn't a possibility. Turns out it was a knock sensor and a leaking manifold intake gasket. All under warranty.

    I'd be interested in other's experience of issues with the car. At this rate I only have another 16 months before I expire my 50,000 warranty and would like to know what potential problems might arise. My car, like others, has wind noise from the door seal. It seems that this problem is prevelant and apparently there's no service bulliten relating to this other than on the '01 S. How do problems like this get recognized by Mazda and a TSB issued to correct the problem?
  • fwatsonfwatson Posts: 639
    Alldata 2002 MMP

    ---------------------------------------------

    S01898--APR 03--Body - Wind Noise Around Doors

    http://alldata.com/TSB/33/02333664.html

    ---------------------------------------------

    As for reliability of Millenia, it has been outstanding for all years. That does not mean it will never have a problem.

    ---------------------------------------------------

    Quote: "#2672 of 2675 check engine light by tomekk Oct 08, 2003 (9:35 pm)

    Well, my MM S is in service today, got a loaner - Mazda 6. Fire it up - guess what... check engine light! 4K miles on that Mazda 6. Unbelievable."

    ---------------------------------------------

    Maybe you should do as an independent mechanic once told me concerning Ck Engine Lights in general. He had black electrical tape over the one on his personal car, and suggested that cure for all of them. He was of course joking, but it shows how perturbed mechanics get with those lights constantly going on for no good reason.

    I posted to the Maintenance thread "Check Engine Light" and found that about all that gets posted there is questions about those lights on various cars. There were very few posts to answer the questions about them.
  • fwatsonfwatson Posts: 639
    I also posted to BAT Auto, which is professional mechanics answering questions, and all you can get there is to have the codes read out and see what is causing the light. Sometimes though, if you can give them the code they have suggestions.
  • fwatsonfwatson Posts: 639
    I had the code read at AutoZone. They got PO325-Knock Sensor.

    His suggestion was to go to a slightly higher octane gasoline or have the computer reprogramed. I have no ping or knock even under hard acceleration, so I am going to put a couple of feelers out to see what online mechanics suggest.
  • One of the best tips I picked up from purusing these boards over the past 15 months was the lifetime four wheel alignment deal that Firestone has. Regular price for this lifetime service is $149. Thought it was worth mentioning again for those people new to the boards. Money well spent if you plan on keeping your car for 100,000+ miles like I do with my vehicles.
  • steevo2steevo2 Posts: 33
    With so many discussions of error codes and having them read at AutoZone etc, this device caught my attention. Check it out at:

    http://www.davisnet.com/drive/products/carchip_products.asp

    You plug it into your diagnostic port and it logs the info for each trip. Then you can download info to your computer for viewing. Kind of interesting...
  • fwatsonfwatson Posts: 639
    I agree the idea sounds good, and maybe that reader is OK. But I have a Davis weather station and it is not very accurate. I would make sure that device could be returned for a refund before trying it.
  • kcm8419kcm8419 Posts: 121
    The seat warmer switch in my '02 S is in the back of the seat. You have to remove the back of the seat to find it, and it should be near the bottom on the side. The workshop manual says to check to make sure that the thermoswitch is working properly with a hair dryer and checking with an ohmmeter. You have to disconnect the warmer connection first. THIS IS FOR THE SEAT BACK WARMER.
    For the seat cushion warmer you have to disconnect connector and check for continuity between terminals A and B with an ohmmeter.

    FWATSON if I remember correctly you had the KL engine. The workshop manual says that it is a knock sensor 1 circuit malfunction. It says that "if the voltage at the PCM terminal 3S is below 1.25V or above 3.75V, the PCM determines that the knock sensor circuit has malfunction."
    The possible causes are as follows:
    1. Knock sensor malfunction.
    2. Connector or terminal malfunction.
    3. Open circuit between knock sensor terminal and PCM terminal 3S.
    4. Short to ground circuit between knock sensor terminal and PCM terminal 3S.
    5. Short to power circuit between knock sensor terminal and PCM terminal 3S.
    6. PCM malfunction.

    I hope this information helps you guys.
  • WOW!! Thanks kcm8419 (can we call you k?). That seat warmer data is of considerable value. I worked in electronics all my adult life and have no qualms about testing and interpreting the results. What does slow me down is pulling the back off the seat and replacing so it looks like it did before. Might be easier to just buy a pair of long johns - red of course. Leather is not the greatest thing to sit on first thing on a cold morning. Not too sure about that instruction to use a hair dryer to check the thermoswitch. When it is hot or warm out then the switch in the back of seat and/or the seat bottom would normally be open. Only when it gets below a factory preset temperature (35F for example) would the thermoswitch close. No heating would take place even then until the driver completed the circuit by pressing one or both dash switches. Blowing hot air would only make sure that the switch did NOT open. JC
  • kcm8419kcm8419 Posts: 121
    I have no problems with using "K". Let me back track a little. The manual says to use a "hot air blower", so take that for what ever it is worth. It also says that you should have continuity between terminal A and B if it is less then 34 degrees C or 94 degrees F. If it is above no continuity. When I first looked at these instructions I too wondered about pulling off the back of the seat.
    The instructions to pull off the seat back cover are as follows:
    1. "Pull the edges of the seat back cover to disengage the clips from the seat back frame." There appears to be a total of 4 clips, 2 on each side.
    2. "Pull up the seat back cover upward to disengage the clips from the seat back cover." There appears to be 3 clips at the top of the seat back cover.

    Every little bit helps. Good luck if you try this.
  • fwatsonfwatson Posts: 639
    Thanks for the information. The car will be under warranty for another 14 months, so if the light persists I will take it to the dealer and let them worry about it.

    Not only Mazda, but the manufacturers in general really need to get the "Check Engine" light under control. It is too vague a warning to be of much use to a consumer.
  • Thanks K for update. Will wait for colder weather before I give seat heater(s) a workout to confirm whether they work or not. And fwatson, I mentioned before that the Check Engine Light seemed to go on at the drop of a hat and you sort of berated me for that comment. Of course there is a reason for the light coming on and as you point out it is too vague to be of immediate value to most drivers. Take it to a dealer for a readout (often $70 or $80 to do so) or to AutoZone and get the numbers which are meaningless to 99% of drivers. The manual states that a blown fuse in the "cabin" can cause the light to go on. That is an overkill function of the light if you ask me. My recent case of the light coming on because of an engine tumble at startup likely caused raw fuel to contaminate one or more of the O2 sensors (a valid use of warning light). No further contamination over the next several days and 6 or 7 cold starts caused the computer to turn the light off. Drivers on other Mazda help sites have said the light has been on in their Millenias for over a year with no change in gas mileage, no change in acceleration, no noticeable difference in operation in general. "Go figger" as they say. fairwood
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