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BMW 5-Series Sedans

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  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    I would like to offer an observation on your post, which was well thought out. Most automobiles these days are extremely complex. Certainly much more complex than they were even a few years ago. It seems to me the more complex the auto the less likely it will be able to go the distance reliably, due to the number of computers, high temperature of the engine, complex emission systems and in general the number of interrelated subsystems. Can you point to any loaded modern day luxo-car, which after it starts turning 125,000 doesn't start to have major problems with vehicle subsystems? Most people don't keep their modern luxo-mobiles for the distance. While reliability of Lexus, Acura and Infinity (not to mention all other manufacturers) are great the first three years, what happens in the 8th year of ownership; to the auto climate control, to the power windows, to the electric seats, to the fancy radio with the cd, to the engine components, to the tranny, to the heated seats, sunroof or heated mirrors, to the body. Be it European, American or Japanese my guess is, with todays high revving, high tech cars it's not a matter of how much, it's a matter of when.

    PS My 1984 Toyota Celica went 12 years 85,000 miles and was never in the shop. That was the last car I could say that about. Of course the car by today's standard was far less complex. My 1990 Taurus Wagon went 6 years, the last two were expensive ones.

    One more thought it's not the distance that gets most cars, IMO, it's the age. A 4 year car driven 40,000 mi/yr will have in total less wear and tear than an 8 year car driven 20,000.
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    boxster... I used the BMW USA CPO locator and put in a rather large search radius. I ended up driving 590 miles one way to the dealer I worked the best deal out with. Did all my dealing, including the trade, by computer, fax, and telephone. You might consider widening your search area. Don't know how good you are at negotiating. I've bought a couple dozen new cars in the past 15 years. For myself and others. I love to buy cars. Find it fun and challenging. You, the buyer, are in the driver's seat. You control the sale. Negotiate hard. Play dealers off against each other. Do the dealers take you to be a serious buyer? Helps if they know you can and will buy a specific car they have today if you can agree on a price. Have they run a quick credit check on you? Or believe/know you can pay cash?
  • dl7265dl7265 Posts: 1,381
    I dont know but around here, your paying allmost new prices< and in case of ED> maybe more.

    Curtiss: I think you got the discount cause you plug the program even more than BMWNA ...;)

    DL
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    dl7265... I would love to see someone track all the time & paperwork and every single expense involved with going European Delivery. That includes all the time spent doing everything. And every single cost. If you have to buy a passport, any medical preparation, airfare, hotels, tolls/fees, meals, gifts, maps, tourist guides, etc. All the vacation-related costs. Down to the penny. By the time you add in all the time and expense, don't think you really end up saving anything. You get a car and a vacation, but you had to take a lot of time to do it and it delays when you can get your vehicle. So how much is that worth? Don't know, but don't think ED is something I'd want to do until I'm retired! Then I'd have the time and could work thru all the issues, big & small, and any hassles.

    Buying a used newish highly sophisticated BMW would scare me if it weren't under a decent warranty for some significant length of time/miles. Since I have yet to see a really good 3rd party extended warranty, I think the manufacturers' certified programs are the only way to go for true peace of mind.
  • snagielsnagiel Posts: 750
    I haven't gone through the process, which certainly seems to be more involved than traditional delivery through the dealership. But I don't understand your skepticism here. For a 540i6, the MSRP spread between regular delivery and ED is $3,775. Since ED cars do not come out of a dealer's inventory allotment, some may be willing to even further reduce their regular margins and cut a better deal. But regardless, if you want to get the best deal possible there's no question it's the way to go. You can--although I doubt many do--fly out to Munich (about $900 r/t from the East Coast), catch a cab to the delivery center (100DM=$45), sign the papers, and leave the car, take a cab back to the airport ($45), and fly back. All told, about $1000, while you're saving close to $4000.

    For most ED customers, though, I suspect they are interested in going to Europe anyway, so this offers them a great opportunity to do so (the car savings either pay for the trip or certainly subsidize it substantially), not to mention saving costs on rental cars while there.

    All those costs you list are costs people would face regardless on a trip; therefore, they can simply pick up the car and leave, if that's their only goal.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,421
    I'm hope to do ED partly for the savings, but also for the experience of exploring a continent which I have never been. I know this is the 5 series thread, but I plan on getting a 325Ci via ED in the fall. I'll be saving approximately $3500 off US MSRP (I believe you save over $5000 with the 5 series). I can get more options in the car than I would if I were taking US delivery. I'll also get to enjoy a vacation in Europe with my girlfriend (which we were planning on anyway). I'd rather drive my BMW around then take the EurRail & Tourbuses. For me, ED is more of a value thing.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    I guess it all depends on your perspective.

    Givens:
    Airfare: Round trip EWR to MUC; I am paying $447.00 per person, plus a mandatory $12.38 for FedEX to deliver our tickets (SAS does not do E-Ticket) to my home. As for shopping for said tickets, it took a whopping hour and a half to do the research on the Internet AND buy the tickets.
    Food: We gotta eat, regardless of whether we are at home or on vacation.
    Lodging: Based upon the airline pricing, it seems that you need to spend at least two nights to get the best fares, many folks over on the 3-Series board have stayed at a very comfortable hotel called the Hotel Uhland (sp?) in Munich, which has nice (read, not the Ritz) rooms for about $60 (USD) per night.
    Paperwork: The 530i that I am picking up in Munich in about 3 weeks required two more signatures than my 1999 328i that I leased here in New Jersey, all in all, the paperwork in no different. Oh, and I will most likely have to sign a few more times in Munich.
    Documentation: Hmmm, well, at least in our case, we both have passports already, so, for us at lease, that is a non-issue. To go to Germany, there are no Visas, Medical Checks, International Licenses, or any other documentation to deal with.

    Single person, short trip ED delivery (using my car as a basis for savings):
    Price saved off US MSRP: $5,300.00
    Price of Airfare: $453.19
    Round Trip Airport Limo from Home to EWR: $65.00
    Rail Fare from MUC to BMW ED Center: $12.00 (according to those who have done it)
    Taxi Fare from E.H. Harms to Hotel Uhland: $25.00 (Approx.)
    Two nights at Hotel Uhland: $120.00
    Rail Fare from Hotel Uhland to MUC: $10.00
    Lost Month of usage Lease payment: $558.00

    Total cost of ED related items: $1,243.19
    Total savings using a minimal ED trip: $4,056.81

    Two Person, 8 days on the ground ED delivery:
    Price saved off US MSRP: $5,300.00
    Price of Airfare: $906.38
    Round Trip Airport Limo from Home to EWR: $130.00
    Rail Fare from MUC to BMW ED Center: $24.00
    Lodging for 6 nights: $600.00 (Figured WAY on the high side, just in case ;-))
    Taxi Fare from E.H. Harms to Hotel Uhland: $25.00 (Approx.)
    Last night at Hotel Uhland: $60.00
    Rail Fare from Hotel Uhland to MUC: $20.00
    Lost Month of usage Lease payment: $558.00

    Total cost of ED related items: $2,523.30
    Total savings using a minimal ED trip: $2,776.62

    Assuming that the best deal I could have done on a domestic purchase would have been $1,500 off MSRP, the &#147;Lone Wolf&#148; approach would still save $2,556.81 by doing ED. In the case where two folks take a short vacation (just like my wife and I are going to do), we would still save at least $1,276.62. Oh, and we get a FREE vacation in Paris, in the spring no less. ;-)

    In reality, we would have taken a trip to Paris anyway, and we would have probably rented a car while we were there. With that in mind, the only differences in costs to me will turn out to be the net difference between the cost of the weekly rental car in Europe (figure $275) and the &#147;Lost Month Payment&#148; while my car is on water. So, the way I look at it, I am saving more like $5,000 (off MSRP) by doing ED and more like $3,500 (assuming a $1,500 discount off MSRP) in real world savings.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,421
    Driving your BMW on the roads it was meant to be driven on: Priceless.

    I know its corny, but I just had to say it!

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    the "free" use of Shippo's extraordinary research analysis which would take anyone else at least a few hours to complete and document half as well.

    As several frinds and associates have indicated to me, one of the most difficult aspects of ED is the wait and anticipation. But hey, they feel the same way about our annual golf outing. At least with ED, they end up with a great car and don't lose too many balls in the process.

    Consider this, you don't save anything by going ED on a Mercedes, and Porsche actually charges you extra to take delivery at the factory. BMW is one of the few options for making it a unique event for yourself and your family and still saving significant dollars in the process.
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    shipo... Please do track all the time and money spent on total ED. Every last penny spent getting there, while there, and getting back. Most people seriously underestimate every last item when they do household budgeting. They overlook items. When going overseas you have currency issues. What if the dollar declines in value vis-a-vis the Euro between now and then? Now costs you more dollars.

    Costs me a heck of a lot less to eat and live over 3 or 4 days in my rural midwest town than some bigger European cities. Bet their cost of living indices a lot higher. :)

    Just my opinion, but a good negotiator living in an area with multiple BMW dealers within reasonable distance and one willing to negotiate hard and wait to get a good deal, can do pretty well off MSRP. Add up all the time, effort, and costs for ED, and I don't think the difference ends up being that great, either in total dollars or as a percentage of all the money spent on the car.
  • chesdin4chesdin4 Posts: 22
    Riez, I have to say I agree w/ Snagiel.

    (Brief aside: aren't our names interesting... mine is our cat's name, plus the impact of 3 irretrievable passwords. But I digress...)

    ANYWAY... It's frankly hard to justify ED purely on economics. Think of it as a subsidy to a trip you were going to take anyway. We have good friends in Frankfurt, they'd just had a baby; we were headed there anyway. Our 530i was just icing on the cake...!
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    "Costs me a heck of a lot less to eat and live over 3 or 4 days in my rural midwest town than some bigger European cities. Bet their cost of living indices a lot higher. :)"

    You ought to try New York sometime. My wife and I just went out to dinner and a show a few weeks back and it cost us something like $500 for the evening!

    As I have been to Europe a number of times, and even worked in Stuttgart for Mercedes-Benz back in 1996, I have a fair idea of what prices currently are (confirmed by the internet). Will I wine and dine my wife in Paris? You bet. Would I have wined and dined my wife in New York that same week if we had not gone? Most probably. What is the difference in cost? Not much.

    Given that we are going to spend some time on the road, most likely driving up to Saxony after Paris, the costs up there are fairly low, I mean like, $100 will pay for the entire day, including meals and lodging.

    In the interest of science, I will in fact document every penny that goes out, and will attempt to classify them in such a way as to distinguish between necessary expenses and ones that are purely discretionary.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • snagielsnagiel Posts: 750
    Sorry, my user name isn't anywhere near as interesting: first initial, last name. What can I say, my creativity shines through only occasionally.

    Riez: I think you may be disproving your own argument. You claim that, after all airfare, hotels, meals, transportation, etc. costs are accounted for in ED, you don't end up saving much (or anything). But in this argument, you are acknowledging the buyer is getting a trip through Europe basically for free. Fine, so you're not saving much OVERALL, but you're getting a free trip out of the deal. And if you were planning on such a trip anyway--practically a sunk cost--then you certainly are saving money.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    In the spring of 1974, Herr Spriska (my Comparitive Political Systems Professor in High School) had a class with me (Dale Shipman) and a guy by the name of Ken Sharp. Given that Herr Spriska was a Marx Brothers fan, he dubbed us, "Shipo and Sharpo", I guess the name sort of stuck. I wonder if Ken still uses "Sharpo". ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • bs530bs530 Posts: 5
    I have wanted a 5 series for 4 years now, but the wife liked the Saab 9-3. So, after suffering for the past 3 years, I planned it so I would go over and and pick up the car at the factory 4-6 weeks before the end of our lease, hopefully getting the car in my garage just as my old one leaves. So, yes I feel that I got a Great deal(530sp,pp,cw,zenon,Step,pdc) but the excitment of going to the factory and getting it is off the scale. I plan on taking a tour of the factory the day before and being one of the first people in line for my car the next day. As I'm not taking my wife(my brother is going with me - Boring!)we are going to drive the car for the day and drop it off down the street and catch the next flight home. Costs? two nights lodging and meals. (My brother and my self both fly for the airlines so airfare is zero.) I would love to plan on my next ED pickup so that my wife and I spend a whole week there, but this depends on the look of the next body style.
    Shipo, keep those cards and letters coming. I'll be going over for a May 14th pickup and would love to hear your story.
  • vanaldervanalder Posts: 29
    Picked up a car there last June. Very pleased with the Jedermann Hotel VERY near the

    main train station in Munich (10 to 15 minutes walk along the sidewalk). If arriving in

    Munich by plane, simply take the train to the Hauptbahnhof (main train station) directly

    from the airport. Not big rooms, but spotless AND a super full breakfast (if you like to

    munch in the morning).


    http://www.hotel-jedermann.de/

  • bn_shopnbn_shopn Posts: 8
    Picked up my 530 last week and noticed that the drivers side light is "lower" than the passengers side. What I mean is that as you look from left to right (in the drivers seat) there is a 'step up' as you look at the headlamp top cutoffs. Sort of like this: ___/'''''''' This is where the right lamp meets the left. Is this right or is the drivers lamp just a bit too low?
  • john01john01 Posts: 246
    Driver side is aimed lower to reduce the glare to the oncoming drivers.
  • boxsterboxster Posts: 28
    I truely believe that BMW dealer CPOed cars are the best choice for used BMW shopping, and I always put those cars on the top of my watching list.
    but, to be honest, I feel pretty frustrated so far by my local BMW dealers. I can't get the price as you've mentioned. I expanded my range to the whole California, but you know what? either they don't have the car I'd like to buy, or they are just same corky on the price as my local's.
    so far the best offer I've got is $38000 for that 99 540ia, sports, 43500 miles, Xenon.

    Can I ask where you are at? are your local BMW dealers willing to ship? from the internet, I saw a lot of cheaper BMWs in Houston area, maybe because of Enron? anyway, in SF bay area, the BMW dealers just have their guts to be tough on price. people just keep buying.
  • bn_shopnbn_shopn Posts: 8
    I understand the aiming lower to reduce oncoming traffic blinding, but you would think that on a 45+K vehicle they would figure out how to make the light beams match up. I've asked the question on the roadfly msg board and not everybody has the same issue, only some. I guess I got the "really good" Xenon's!
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