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BMW 5-Series Sedans



  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Unless my thinking is off from too much coffee, rpms with a manual are not effected, by load of car, a/c on or off, windows open or closed etc. Your gas mileage would be. Since there is no slippage due to a torque converter there is always a direct formula between gear, speed and rpms.

    With a manual for example, in 3rd gear going 50, your engine should always register the same number of rpms.
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    kdshapiro... Is not my forte. Nor am I an engineer. So if I add 2,000 pounds of weight to the car, the engine won't have to rev higher to produce a desired speed in a chosen gear to offset the extra weight? Like Mario Andretti, I love to drive cars and leave the mechanical work and physics concepts to those more intelligent than I am! :)
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    On a car equipped with a manual transmission, the only reason why the RPMs would fluctuate due to load, would be if the clutch was slipping. If you add 2000 pounds of weight, you will have a more open throttle setting, allowing more air/fuel into the cylinder, causing more power, however, the RPMs would remain the same as if the car was going down hill with the wind fully aft.

    The same cannot be said for a car equipped with an automatic transmission, unless said transmission has a “Fully Locking” torque converter, which most higher end cars have these days (like all BMW automatic transmissions). Hence the fact that the 323iA driven (primarily) by Mr. Riezs’ wife indicates nearly the same RPMs as my formula would calculate, 3,550 (posted by Riez) and 3,508 (calculated by my formula).

    One of the “Givens” that I have programmed into my spreadsheet is the “Revs Per Mile” for each tire as posted on the web site. The tire that I am using for said “Given” is the Michelin Pilot Sport, which seems to be a tire which would generate one of the highest speeds at any given RPM of the tires of any given size. My rational for using that specific tire, is that I see it on most of the recent 5-Series cars that I have looked at (including my 530i SP). I am using this “Revs Per Mile” number because it takes into account the differences between tires of any given size, regardless of manufacturer, model, rolling resistance or compression. As a “For Instance”, consider the following chart of tires, all of which match the “Spec” for the rear tires that are currently mounted on the Riezmobile (540i 6-Speed), which is 255/40 ZR17:

    Dia. – Revs. – Tire
    24.9 – 833 – Yokohama AVS Sport
    25.0 – 825 – Kumho ECSTA Supra 712
    25.0 – 829 – Yokohama A520
    25.0 – 833 – Bridgestone Blizzak LM-22
    25.0 – 833 – Firestone Firehawk SZ50 EP
    25.0 – 834 – Sumitomo HTR Z
    25.0 – 839 – Dunlop SP Sport 9000
    25.1 – 823 – Sumitomo HTR Z II
    25.1 – 827 – Michelin Pilot Sport
    25.1 – 830 – Bridgestone Potenza S-03 Pole Position
    25.1 – 845 – Bridgestone Potenza RE020
    25.2 – 824 – Pirelli P6000
    25.2 – 826 – Yokohama AVS dB
    25.2 – 827 – Bridgestone Potenza RE730
    25.2 – 830 – Pirelli P7000 SUPERSPORT

    Interesting the differences, now, according to the math, ALL 255/40 R17 tires SHOULD have the following Diameter and Revs/Mile:

    25.0 – 806 – What the math shows

    Hmmm, something else is going on with our tires, most likely the “Compression” thing that Mschukar spoke of a few posts ago. It would seem that all tires are not made equal, even in size and the speed they yield.

    This brings me to another issue; I have heard repeatedly that “BMWs have a large speedometer error”. Interesting, I checked my 328i one time against the mile markers along the side of the highway one time, and I found virtually no error in either the Odometer or the Speedometer. Maybe the 3-Series does not have the same level of error, as does the 5-Series. Current anecdotal evidence would seem to support that, given that my 328i seems to agree with the road signs, and Mr. Riezs’ wifes’ 323i seems to agree with my calculations for a non-SP 325i (which has the same gearing as did the 323i), however, it would seem that Mr. Riezs’ 540i 6-Speed (with the Yokohama AVS dB tires) indicates 100 mph about 211 RPMs early.

    There, that should be enough fat to chew on for a while. ;-)

    Best Regards,
  • bluewater5bluewater5 Posts: 55
    Here is an article on speedometer error:

    BMWs are off by the most, reporting 73.18 when doing "true" 70 mph. European laws are more strict than US, requiring speedometers never to underreport speed, even with oversized tires. Their theory is that since people are more likely to put oversized tires on BMWs and Porsches, they have to have the most overhead.

    Beyond that, the article lists various reasons for speedometer error. Riez's tests compare speedometer and tachometer readings. The speedometer is definitely not a direct measurement. I am not sure what errors might impact the tachometer. There could just be numerous small errors that impact 2 indirect measurements that result in the disparity with Shipo's theorectical results.

    -Bob D.

  • gak48gak48 Posts: 2
    Does anyone know if a Z3 Hardtop has a workable rear window defogger? My wife got a hardtop installed at the dealership last fall and there supposedly is a switch on the console to turn the defogger on and off. However, when we removed the hardtop in the spring, I never found any wiring harness. Can't figure out how a defogger would operate without one. My wife said the rear window never seemed to clear up very well during the winter. Maybe the console control is just for decoration.

    Anybody have any info on this?
  • polo2928bpolo2928b Posts: 21
    I have a 528 2000 which I love but is lease so i have to turn it in in summer 2003, I would like to buy the new 5 series model but it will probably not be comming out in the States until beginning of 2004, does anyone know if I can order this model directly from Europe and where I could?
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    To the best of my knowledge, there is no way you can order a U.S. Spec E60 5-Series until it starts its U.S. production (which will probably be late 2003 or early 2004). That said, once again, to the best of my knowledge, BMW only has one method for ordering U.S. Spec cars from Europe, and that is via the military.

    My suggestion to you would be to extend the lease on your 528i for six months to a year, and then order your new E60 5er through normal channels.

    Best Regards,
  • john01john01 Posts: 246
    As shipo said, "via military" or the diplomat sales program.
  • bluewater5bluewater5 Posts: 55
    If you get the Speed channel (150 on Dish Network), check out Autoweek (today at 5:30pm EDT is one of multiple airings). It is supposed to have a preview of 2004 5-series.

    Polo2929b: I find it hard to believe that BMW would plan on not having any 5 series available in the US for many months. If E60 production starts July 2003, there _might_ be a few US spec models available by Sept. If you want one of the first, try your dealer in late spring to see when they might start taking orders. Even German-spec cars may not be available in your time frame, though.

    -Bob D.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Cool, given I too have a Dish system, I will tape the segment as I won't be here at the time.

    Thanks for the "Heads Up".

    Best Regards,
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    shipo... Interesting and informative post at #3502. I need to take some aspirin and Tums to digest it all! :)
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    shipo... Had wife's 323iA on cruise control at 100 mph, 84 deg F w/add. 100 pounds. 3,475 RPMs. Does that agree with your calculations?
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Sorry about #3502, sometimes, when I start thinking out loud (or on the keyboard, as may be the case), I get a little too verbose. ;-)

    According to my calculations, a 323iA with 205/65 VR16 tires should turn 3546 RPMs, and yesterday, you posted 3550, so, that is pretty close. Today's figure of 3475 is a little low, however, not outside the bounds of a standard margin of error.

    Best Regards,
  • bluewater5bluewater5 Posts: 55
    I watched it but did not see any mention of the new 5. Maybe it got moved to another show. I got the info from:

    which includes a list of BMW sightings on TV.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Well, in that case, I will just have to re-use the tape for something like "Joe Dirt" tonight at 9:15. NOT!

    Best Regards,
  • dl7265dl7265 Posts: 1,381
    Dale if all that thought is in the production of your mouse your gonna be one wealthy guy and im gonna bum some asprin from Riez.... :)

  • mcq7159mcq7159 Posts: 20
    I'm absolutely loving my new baby: 530 manual, premium, cold, xenons, Blue Water and Gray. Have more than 500 miles toward the magic 1,200 break-in; can't wait to really put her through her paces soon.

    Quick computer question: when you reset OBC for such data as MPG, MPH, etc., is the displayed information an average since the last reset? Or is it based on a shorter time or distance period? Seems like I remember that Saabs base their data on something like the most recent twenty minutes of driving. Has anyone else heard that?

    Thanks in advance!
  • topazbluetopazblue Posts: 4
    The good news is that my dealer called this past Friday to advise me that my 530 (sp, xenons, premium sound) was ready for pick-up. The bad news is that it came with an automatic, not the manual tranny I ordered 2 months ago. The screw-up was the dealer's doing and they accept responsiblity (apparently the salesman didn't realize that when you order a 530A, it comes with automatic even if that option is not specifically selected).

    Now I am faced with the following decision. I can accept the automatic today with no additional charge for the automatic transmission. This is very convenient because the lease on my current car (Saab 9-3) is up in two weeks. I drove the car on Saturday--the car was sweet and the automatic acceptable...I think. Alternatively, I can reorder the manual and take delivery in July. The dealer will deduct $500 from my original price, but this is equal or less than the cost to extend my current lease or rent a car until July.

    It's a real close call for me between the manual and automatic--I like driving manuals and the extra power they provide. On the other hand, where I live (S. Florida) is not conducive to real serious motoring. I would love to hear from others that similarly wrestled with the automatic/manual decision and opted for the automatic. Any second thoughts or regrets?
  • snagielsnagiel Posts: 750
    Hmm...that's a tough call. If I were you, I'd be fuming over the dealer's screw-up and their paltry $500 token offer.

    I'd demand that the dealer:
    1) Start calling other area dealers and find your combination either available now or very soon;
    2) Finance the extended lease on your Saab; or
    3) Provide you with a loaner car until the new one shows up.

    If necessary, speak with the owner/manager and/or BMWNA.

    If you're honestly indifferent about manual-versus-auto, then you might want to consider their offer (I've driven in Florida and know what you're talking about). But if you've had your mind and heart set on a slick-shifting manual, you'll probably end up kicking yourself if you give in now. Personally, I wouldn't see the point in buying/owning an automatic BMW. (No offense to auto owners out there, but it just seems contrary to the essence of the car and the brand, and the driving experience--while still sporty--is certainly less thrilling and compelling.)
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Ohhh, ouch! Given that I too am in the "Any day now" phase of taking (U.S.) delivery of my new 530i, I can understand how it might be difficult to make the decision to wait. That said, I have driven a fair few number of cars with a very nice automatic transmission (I used to work for MBUSA), and even then, given the (then) choice of taking home a nice new E320 or my Passat GLX 5-Speed, I would choose the Passat.

    Obviously, were I in your shoes, I would either wait, or do as Snagiel suggested, and press your dealer to find a trade that meets with your requirements. Who knows, maybe you will have to change your user ID to "Sapphire Black". ;-)

    Best Regards,
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