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BMW 5-Series Sedans

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Comments

  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,312
    Remember when the GM answer to EVERY suspension question was the "FE3"? - Add bigger roll bars, stiffen things a bit, and fatter tires - All you need to know about suspension dynamics LOLOL

    Don't forget the "F41". Just add the "Performance Exhaust" that sounds like a Chris Craft and you've got yourself a gen-you-whine "Sports Sedan"... :P

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • anon3anon3 Member Posts: 147
    I base my statement about "drama free" acceleration on having owned and driven both the turbo six and the 8 cylinder extensively. The two engines yield two different driving experiences. Your statement that, "it [the turbo six] certainly doesn't perform without a lot of fuss" isn't supported by the numbers. Most tests give the 8 cylinder a performance advantage over the turbo six ranging from 2/10 to 4/10 of a second 0 - 60, and that's comparing a 550i to a 535xi, which has the added mechanical overhead of xDrive all wheel drive. The biggest difference is in how the cars "feel".

    A short test drive comparison of the two won't give you full appreciation of the turbo six. As I said, the turbo six grows on you and it's easier to appreciate after driving it for a while. The engine and transmission are, I guess I would say, less intrusive (i.e. less "drama"). Personally, I think it's a little too smooth and quiet and you feel less involved in the driving experience. So I find myself frequently thinking "I know this car is nearly as fast as the 8 cyl by the numbers, but it just doesn't feel as satisfying or as fun." So I have to rationalize the turbo six.

    That having been said, the point is moot because you can't get a V-8 five series with xDrive if you have a requirement for all wheel drive. So the fact that the turbo six has a performance disadvantage of as little as two tenths of a second 0 - 60 with all wheel drive makes it a very reasonable choice.

    However, BMW's decision not to give us a sport suspension option with xDrive equipped five series is not reasonable. It shows how even BMW's marketing department can be just plain stupid and doesn't understand its customer base. Maybe there's a mechanical reason for this, but you can get an all wheel drive V-8 X5 with sport suspension, so why not in the five series????

    In the end, it doesn't matter because I only keep my daily driving cars for one year. I drive a 535xi because I wanted to try something different. My next vehicle will have the twin turbo V-8 or will have BMW hybrid technology.
  • anon3anon3 Member Posts: 147
    I was describing the 535xi without sport suspension when I wrote that paragraph. It is a competent sport sedan without sport suspension and wheels, but it's a little soft at the limits of handling/cornering if you're accustomed to driving other BMWs with sport suspension. It all depends on how and where you like to drive.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    ... It shows how even BMW's marketing department can be just plain stupid and doesn't understand its customer base. ...

    I think it shows that they are spot on. It's not as though AWD has been around (in large numbers) since the beginning of cars and every car sold in the snowbelt had it. Years ago, people had to make due with FWD/RWD or 4X4. I think how BMW is interpretting it is that if people are so gung-ho about AWD and absolutely must have it to survive inclement weather, they aren't too confident in their driving abilities or aren't truly into spirited/performance driving. And I agree with that interpretation. I think this reliance on AWD stems from a fear that the car might actually get sideways. Fear of the unexpected causes panic. Panic causes accidents in an otherwise recoverable situation, not the lack of AWD. I'm with the camp that says a set of snow tires will do a car fine. Though, I've never mounted anything more climate specific than a good set of A/S tires and have always been just fine; even driving through a blizzard in Vail, CO in January in a Chevy S10 with an open differential and no ballast in the back, and I think those were actually BFG touring tires.
  • bruceomegabruceomega Member Posts: 250
    Maybe there's a mechanical reason for this, but you can get an all wheel drive V-8 X5 with sport suspension, so why not in the five series????

    I'm wondering if the replacement for the current 5 series will offer AWD with the V-8, and a sport suspension option for the AWD cars, as they can design that in from the get-go.

    BMW seems to be evolving the performance aspects of their AWD system, or at least starting to lean in that direction. They now offer Dynamic Performance Control for the X-6, with hints that DPC could migrate to other AWD vehciles. And they now offer an aftermarket sport suspension for the 328Xi, with speculation they may offer one for the 335Xi.

    Bruce
  • anon3anon3 Member Posts: 147
    Your explanation uses the mass produced Japanese automaker marketing model where the manufacturer decides for you how you should equip your car and how you're likely to drive based on the demographic group that the manufacturer has decided you belong to. "We assume that people who buy AWD vehicles are poor drivers or casual drivers who aren't interested in performance driving, so we're not going to give them a sport suspension option." That's an over generalization and a bad assumption and it is a violation of BMW philosophy.

    BMW has always been driver centric and gives us the option to equip a car according to the individual's driving preferences. Most people buy AWD sedans for peace of mind knowing that AWD is there during the 1% of driving conditions when four wheels are better than two. But they buy a BMW for the way it handles and performs in the other 99% of driving.

    The market generally perceives AWD as a way to drive through snow. But BMW designed xDrive as a performance system to manage under/over steer and to enhance control, safety, and agility in all conditions. The issue is the BMW driving experience on dry pavement when a sport suspension is needed, not how it handles snow.
  • tx_buzzardtx_buzzard Member Posts: 130
    Several owners have told me their SA advised them on the newer cars if your valve stems are black you can use the metal valve stem caps, yet if they are grey then you have to use plastic caps. The reason being they have changed the tire pressure monitoring on cars with grey valve stems and the metal caps would cause faulty readings. Something to do with the pressure readings reflecting back off the caps. However I checked my valve stems and they are grey and I have the metal Roundel caps on them... with no issues. Go figure. :confuse:

    Anyone else heard of know of this issue?
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    ... But BMW designed xDrive as a performance system to manage under/over steer and to enhance control, safety, and agility in all conditions. ...

    hmph... I did not know that. Learn something new ever (yes, ever) day! Still not as good as its RWD brethren, though. ;)
  • jb_shinjb_shin Member Posts: 357
    Interestingly enough, I had rarely seen all wheel drive BMW (admittedly, they did not make many of those until the current gen models and e34 and e30 were not as plentiful by then, and I had one of the few e30 Tourings with AWD) during my 3 years in Germany or Mercedes 4 Matic/Audi Quattro/VW 4 Motion, for that matter. I don't think I remember seeing e46 AWD ever, in fact. The certainly get decent amount of snow and people just put the snow tires on as one would put gloves on in winter and drive away. This was more or less true in most of Western European countries, but especially in Germany.
  • topspin628topspin628 Member Posts: 373
    I live in the North East and went for the 550i sport over the 535 and 535xi. For me it was the feel of the 550 that won me over. With the combination of sport suspension and non run flats, I find the ride to be a perfect blend of sport and luxury. I ruled out the xi since I didn't want a bmw without the sport suspension, active roll stabilization (which has to be experienced to be believed) and the new sport auto trans that has engine breaking and super quick down shifts. Then it just became a choice of 6 or 8 cylinder (and of course the M aero package and non run flats) vs the better gas mileage of the 6. I am averaging about 22 mpg in mixed city and hwy and I don't drive too conservatively.
    I passed on the active steering as to me it felt a bit artificial and not what I am used to from BMW.
    I am very happy after 5K miles and consider it to be the best all around car I've owned to date (several BMWs MB's, Lexus, Infinitis etc have been in my past).
    Good luck.
  • asteinbergasteinberg Member Posts: 138
    I've had all wheel drives but reluctant to spend more on the car or even a little more on gas to get 535xi rather than 535i. Trying to reconcile good car performance with absurd I-drive, and substandard BMW service and problem dealer attitudes.
    I either pay inflated price at my local dealership or get it elsewhere.
    But BMW, unlike other brands, does NOT provide loaner for warranty service, but lets dealer decide, meaning dealrs don't provide loaner unless you bought it there.
    You're right about M35-- if I did that, I'd get the BMW.
    G35 -- main argument for it is that it has all the features and is very, very cost-effective. But it's sightly smaller than the others and not a much car.
    I'm really conflicted, because the last two years in my BMW I've had to deal with excess air conditioning that is noisy, stupid I-drive, substandard navigation, and burdensome changing of radio stations between satellite and AM. The latter corrected somewhat; the nav still archaic but with real traffic. 535i more powerful, but gas mileage down. I would have preferred a bit more powerful, and not quite the loss in mpg. G35 mileage is quite disappointing.
    Also, my lease turn in experience for BMW was very disappointing.
    Again, I feel I was treated poorly because I did not get the car at my local dealership where I imprudently turned it in.
    --
    If I go BMW again, does anyone reading this now any dealership in So Calif that would sell one at invoice, then lease it with net money factor, without markup?
    There is not enough value in the BMW without trying to get a deal, because the MSRP is too inflated.
    Also, my last one -- 530i -- was in the shop twice for 2 weeks+, for the same safety problem-- passenger air bag sensor.
    BMW sells too many cars and cannot adequately service them. The service writers are insensitive yuppies.
    Problem is I want a rear wheel drive car and don't see much in the way of alternatives.
    But the I-drive shows a culture of arrogance at BMW that extends to dealerships.
    I do want to praise the Internet folks at Pacific BMW in Glendale.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    At this point I'm thinking that you're so soured on BMW than regardless of the deal or the car, you'll be unhappy. As such, I'm thinking that you need to be looking in your local Infiniti or Lexus dealership for your next car.

    FWIW, I don't think there is a BMW dealer anywhere in North America that sells cars at invoice. Period, full stop, the end.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • carnaughtcarnaught Member Posts: 3,497
    He states "BMW sells too many cars and cannot adequately service them. The service writers are insensitive yuppies.
    Problem is I want a rear wheel drive car and don't see much in the way of alternatives."

    Man, you've sure been dealing with the wrong BMW dealer. Now on my third BMW, the service is comparable to my service experience with Lexus, having previously owned six of them. Maybe I've been lucky but I actually had my Lexi' in more frequently for problems.

    BTW, I'm getting 27.3 mpg in mixed city/highway driving which for the performance level I'm enjoying with my '08 535, is fantastic. In contrast, with my '06 M35, I achieved only 20-21 mpg at best. Yes, the Nav. ergonomics were better than iDrive, but iDrive is improving with each generation and I have no issue with it.

    I agree with Shipo that you should try a different make car (than a BMW) or at least find a good (BMW) dealer to enhance your experience.
  • asteinbergasteinberg Member Posts: 138
    Many thanks for your informative message. I'm intrigued by night vision and heads on display, but these requires special ordering,if i go with 535i. I'm very intrigued at your great mileage and that encourages me; it's not just a money thing, I just don't want to feel like when I run an errand, I'm using that much gas. My 530i had terrifid mileage.
    I friend had an M35 -- he found the turning radius unaccepttable. I think it's better now.
    I've never had a Lexus. I ahd good service in past years with Cadillac Eldorado, Audi turbo, Aud turboi, Infiniti (when they had the big Q45), Mercedes E, Audi A6, Lincoln V8LS. BMW was worst. Does anyone reading this reocmmend any particular BMW dealers for service?
    When I had a safety problem, I was turned away by Bob Smith because I didn't buy the car there. (In contrast, with any prior car, a safety issue was properly and understandably handled immediately.) I went to where I bought it (actually leased it) at Pacific in Glendale, and they were immediatley responsive.
    I don't know if I-drive on the 535 is that much different than the 530, but I do believe the 6 programmable buttons and the AM/Fm button can probably switch me between bands and between stations without the cumbrsome Idrive that made it so difficult to between say, CNN or Fox and the local Am stations.
    The NAV remains primitive.
    A frustration is that BMW provides loaners only if you go where you bought/leased the car.
    Anyway, I'm open to suggestions for anyone on So Calif BMW dealers -- where is good experience to buy/lease (I had positive experience with Pacific BMW in Glendale -- very straightforward, deadline-oriented, responsive, and quite knowledgeable). And where to service, if different?
    Open to multiple dealership suggestions.
    I just want to say that I have a friend with two BMWs and he has had service problems. Also, he had a higher 5 series (545 or 550?), that had several problems.
    My cousin has a mini -- and it was in the shop for a long time with brake problems they could not resolve.
    Of course, these can be exceptions.
    Everyone has good or bad stories with any brand.
    I'm keeon BMW driving performance and encouraged by your psot on mileage.
    Also, has anyone had experience with the run flat tires. I had three (3!) flats -- I live in the Santa Monica Mountains, with small rocks on the road after storms.
    These tires didn't seem that strong -- and BMW maintained they could not be repaired. They wanted $450-$460 for each tire. (I went to a tire place I used for years that charged $100 less.
  • carnaughtcarnaught Member Posts: 3,497

    Also, has anyone had experience with the run flat tires. I had three (3!) flats -- I live in the Santa Monica Mountains, with small rocks on the road after storms.


    Actually, I have experience with run-flats (RF's). I had them on my '03 Lexus SC430 and my last BMW,an '06 3 Series. I hated them on my Lexus and found them quite favorable on my BMW. (I did not get them on the '08 535 because I don't have the SP). They gave a harsh objectionable ride on the Lexus but a nice ride and descent handling on the BMW; both were Bridgestones. I live in an area with a lot of construction, hence many nails, bolts and debris on the roads. It is a flat tire haven. Once with the BMW a bolt was removed and the tire was repaired. This is perhaps a rarity because with the other two flats I had in two years the tires needed replacement. They were replaced at my BMW dealer where I read the paper, watched the large screen LCD tv and had a Starbuck's coffee and danish, at a cost of $250 each, and my car returned to me freshly washed and vacuumed. The advantage was that during each flat, I was able to drive on them to the dealer with no fuss, no muss, for service. When it came time to turn in my lease, with a total of 36,000 mi. on them, the two originals still had some life to them and I did not have to pay for new ones. In other words, they wore pretty well for a "performance' type car like a BMW. So, one way to look at it, is $500 in 36,000 mi. for tires is not bad by today's standards.

    I also dread the day when I have a flat on my current car without the RF tires.
  • asteinbergasteinberg Member Posts: 138
    My goal for a 2 yr lease was not to replace tires.
    I'm AMAZED yours were $250 each; ALL the BMW dealers I dealt with --wanted approx $450 each. My firends had the same prices.
    The tire place was $350 and that was cheap. Perhaps you had a different size or tire. I've quoted you an accurate amount.
    I like the concept of run-flats, but these tires seemed hazard prone.
    Also, BMW says you can't fix them. Tire place says you can, and without compromising safety or performance.
  • asteinbergasteinberg Member Posts: 138
    I'm actually considering 535i, because it resolved some key 530i problems (somewhat better NAV w/integrated live traffic; memory buttons for radio and AM-FM-satellite band-switching; voice recognition that actually works). Mileage worse than Lexus GS350 with more value, but lease terms not so great, and BMW has free maintenance (w/brakes!). Still prefer NAV and other user friendly items on Lexus, Infiniti and other alternatives I'm exploring.
    As long as I can avoid my local dealer, Bob Smith BMW, I may give BMW another chance!
    Questions--
    (1) Given the slowness of the auto market, how close to invoice does 530i go?
    (2) Does BMW offer financing deals, or just leasing deals?
    (3) Other than premium, sports, comfort access, navigation, sirius satellite radio, does anyone reading this recommend any options ...especially if they are perosonally familiar with them? If I go beyond the above, I must special order:
    (4) Are head-up display and night vision use mere toys or useful? (Seems odd that night vision visible only in NAV system.)
    (5) Is rear door side impact airbag safe, or a threat to kids?
    (6) power rear &manual side sunshades worth the money to keep the kids happy?
    (7) any other options truly worthwhile and worth the money?
    (8) Last time, I did 24 mo, cheaper per mo than 36. Now, 36 slightly higher. I still think 24 mo, to save buying 4 costly fun-flat tires.
    (8a) FINALLY -- does anyone know what the Money Factor will be for 535i for APRIL for 12000, 24mo, 36 mo, and, possibly for 15000. If I go BMW, I could buy/lease Mon/3-31 or wait until Tues/4-1, if MF different.
    (8b) IF I special order, due to other items, I'd use March MF or June MF, whichever is lower. My guess is June MF would be lower. Thoughts?
  • topspin628topspin628 Member Posts: 373
    I love the Head Up display. Once you get it you will barely need to look at the speedo area. Also, it really shines with the Nav as your next turn is also displayed.
    Logic 7 is worth it if you are a music person. Also, Ipod integration.
    Sport Auto trans is only around 500 bucks I believe and is excellent. It features engine breaking and very fast shifts. You can read all about it here and also on Bimmerfest.com.
    I also went for HD radio. I listen to satilite 90 percent or more but if you like FM or want to hear a ball game or talk radio on AM, the difference is night and day. Coverage is a bit spotty so it tends to "toggle" between regular and HD at times but I do enjoy it overall.
    I passed on the comfort access just because I couldn't justify the price for not hitting a button on my key. You still have to insert the key in the slot to turn on the car (unlike other systems where you just keep it in your pocket) so for me it wasn't worth it.
    Good luck.
  • asteinbergasteinberg Member Posts: 138
    Thanks for the advice.
    In my 530i, I had comfort access and would definitely get it again.
    A consideration is cost -- I have satellite radio in another car.
    I tend to listen mainly to CNN, Fox News, or talk radio, so I may pass on the IPOD and HD.
    I still wonder about the value of night vision, since it is in the navigation window, which I would not ordinarily be looking at, I'd be looking ahead driving. So, I'm not sure I understand the logic.
    If I do head-up and night vision, I have to wait a couple of months for a car, which means renting a car for 2 months, hopefully with the help of a BMW dealer.
  • carnaughtcarnaught Member Posts: 3,497
    I passed on the comfort access just because I couldn't justify the price for not hitting a button on my key. You still have to insert the key in the slot to turn on the car (unlike other systems where you just keep it in your pocket) so for me it wasn't worth it.
    Good luck.


    WRONG. Where did you get your information? You DO NOT need to insert the key into the ignition to start/drive the car. You CAN keep it in your pocket or somewhere on you. Otherwise, what would be its purpose? Comfort Access is a 'keyless go" and keyless entry option, which works well and is definitely worth it !

    (The only reason the slot is there is to utilize at a car wash or I guess for a dead battery in the key fob.)
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,312
    I still wonder about the value of night vision, since it is in the navigation window, which I would not ordinarily be looking at, I'd be looking ahead driving.

    The B7 I had for a couple of weeks had FLIR, and I found it to be more of a novelty than a useful tool- primarily for the reason you stated. In addition, the camera is also located below the bumper, which gives the view a somewhat odd perspective. That said, it was fun to annoy my wife by turning off the headlamps at 80 mph and driving by the FLIR... :P

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • chile96chile96 Member Posts: 330
    Does anybody happen to know if the current M5 wheels will fit on a 2008 535?

    Thanks for any info
  • jb_shinjb_shin Member Posts: 357
    I was given an e60 528 with PP and CWP as a loaner while my e39 is in for service. I had driven 545i with Steptronic briefly, but this was the first time I really had a chance to drive e60 for more than a few minutes. While I had not given it much thought in the past, the car was a pleasant surprise once I got in the driver's seat.

    My previous e39 was an 2002 530 5spd and the current one is an M5, and I have always imagined I would at least need a 535i to feel comfortable in terms of power. However, the 528, even with Steptronic and without the ever important Sports Pkg was quite a ride. It was very responsive and smooth in terms of gear change and engine response. The only downside was that the car is so well insulated that I could not hear it so much! Also, give me BMW Steptronic any day over MB's 7-speed which down shifts like it is half asleep. It certainly does not have the explosive power of the M5, but I did not feel underpowered at all when passing or taking off.

    Even without the sports pkg, it felt just as tight as my old 530 (ok, it has been a while since I have driven e39 with 6-cylinder, so I may be off here) and the run flats provided more supple ride than the M5, at least. I would really like to drive the one with the sports pkg, though.

    The standard stereo sounded better than the M5's with DSP. The iDrive could be better, but not as bad as it is usually described by magazines and alike. One surprise was that my Verizon Blackberry 8830 synchronized its phonebook to the car, which it will NOT do with my mother's 2008 C300. I have always heard than Verizon has stripped that functionality but it worked just fine in this car.

    I can barely stomach the exterior and even less so the interior, but I really enjoyed the drive. I think Shipo or someone mentioned recently that 528 might just be enough to keep him happy and I would have to agree.

    Now, the thing still stickers $49k and a change, which is a few hundred more than what my fully loaded (use WAY too liberally in ads), and I mean fully loaded as in ALL options checked 2002 530 stickered for. If I were a first-time BMW buyer or luxury car buyer paying that much, I probably would feel short-changed by mere 230 bhp when you can get more from just about any other brand for less than half the price. It is one of those things one just has to experience to understand, I suppose.
  • cabluecablue Member Posts: 48
    Just my 2 cents: I loved my rear shades, but I do live where it gets quite hot in the summer. As far as rear door air bags, I believe kids should be of a certain height for them to be safe. When my kids were really young, I did not order them. I would now. I'm personally steering clear of the BMW 5 series right now because I'm not happy with the safety ratings on this car. I have the 550 right now but am returning it in a couple of weeks. I won't get another 5 until their safety ratings get better. I believe it's the side impact that need improvement. Look at the web site under the Insurance Institute of Highway Safety for the ratings. It's too bad because I'm having a hard time deciding what to get next that's safe. I'm looking seriously at the Audi A6. Very safe. I don't believe it drives as nicely as the BMW, but safety comes first for me.
  • asteinbergasteinberg Member Posts: 138
    I ended up with the BMW535i -- saw only one safety rating problem of the group, and I'm assuming it's a fluke -- since the 535i is basically like the 530 that scored well.
    Safety is important to me.
    As for performance, I went with the BMW despite its dysfunctional I-system and obsolete NAV system. I use the latter sparingly.
    The car tranmission is good, it holds the road, etc.
    The value is still missing.
    I'm on a two year lease again.
    Hopefully, they will get their act together.
  • cabluecablue Member Posts: 48
    Well, congratulations. You'll love the car. I-drive is a tedious, although better on the new ones. IMO nothing drives better. Just watch those speeding tickets! BMW's make you drive fast -- it's hard to resist. The poor safety rating was for side impact, torso area. Just don't get in an accident and all will be well! I may end up with one as well. Still haven't decided. What options did you go for?
  • asteinbergasteinberg Member Posts: 138
    premium package, sport package, comrort access, navigation, satellite radio.
    and..heated seats, because they were on the vehicle and my wife wanted it.
    Also, with my MF due to multiple deposits, the additional cost for this $500 MSRP was only a few dollars.
    I continue to feel I'm paying a premium for performance, because so much is lacking that would have been standard, with the luxury package, on the Lexus GS350, for example, with a much lower MSRP. But the BMW subsidized lease makes the monthly competitive with the Lexus, though Lexus would still be a little cheaper due to discount off invoice.
    I already have 'low pressure' on tire -- will take back to dealer and make sure they are OK, because the cost of these run-flats is off the charts.
    The I-drive is somewhat better, but it's stupid and tedious.
    I have this archaic nav, which lacks so much, because I don't use NAV all that much anymore.
    Frankly, I really wanted some other features -- such a the head-up display and night vision. But I did not want to wait 8 weeks at this point.
    The head-up would be great to see the speed (and avoid risking a ticket).
    Whatever car I get in two years, I'll want those features. They seem like fun and are relevant.
    I'm hoping other brands will get close to the BMW driving experience, because it's hard to be loyal to BMW -- given some of the company policies, the very high MSRP, and the nickle-dime approach to options that are standard for comparable vehicles.
    Also, I'm bright, tech-savvy, quick-reacting; the I-drive and instruments are not logical, are counter-intuitive, and some buttons poorly placed.
    You take the bad with the good.
    I'm tired of all their surveys. They can pay me to consult.
    I had a Lincoln LS8 years back that handled very well but was discontinued.
    And the service was much more upbeat.
    BMW service departments are so crowded
    Still, I give the vehicle high marks for handling.
    But I'm glad to only have a 2 year lease, in the ope that alternatives appear from more consumer-friendly, customer-conscious brands.
    I think there are some really nice people at BMW dealerships, but sometimes the elitist culture overtakes them.
    Also, in this last dealership, shortly after I thought I had consummated the deal, I encouraged a friend to switch from going for a Lexus to BMW.
    But he was so turned off by the silly, nonsensical attempt to slip in what was an extra $436.32, that he said he would go to another dealership, or simply go back to a Lexus.
    I hope this dealership will redeem itself with serious, quality responsive service, so that I can have confidence recommending it to various friends who consider a BMW.
    What was really appalling is the fellow quickly saw that I was detail oriented and math inclined, yet he pursued the most absurd, silly kind of deception -- like taking an added option and dividing the MSRP by 24, and adding that to the monthly price, rather than adding the invoice amount to the agreed-upon capitalized amout, and recapitalizing, at my MF.
    I guess it's just a culture in the auto business, and a little worse at BMW.
    I ruled out Bob Smith, my local dealer, because it was worse, with this hassle; but I still thought I would give them a chance, given the proximity to where I live -- and the BMW policy of trying to steer you to the local dealership by denying you a loaner if you go elsewhere -- a really manipulative BMW practice.
    But the Bob Smith lease turn in was exploitative for me, and I didn't even let them pitch me on the 535i.
    My decision was to go for the Lexus GS350 or another car or, if a BMW, definitely elsewhere.
    It's only a car, and there's a lot more to life, but one does not want to dignify being treated shabbily. Even with all the sob stories on "how little we're making on this car" which defies logic -- given these plush dealerships and sales people who are making a fashion statement -- it still represents a major purchase or, for the lease, a major monthly expense item.
    Indeed, within a few months, my wife must replace her car.
    So, how BMW treats this service, will have a lot to do with considering a BMW.
    But it drives well for where I drive.
    If I had been happier with the 530 and knew in advance of some changes that made the 535 better (though still with bad NAV, etc.), I would have ordered in advance to have precisely what I want.
    If BMW gets in act together a couple of years from now with its 2010, and the pricing is realistic, I'll order in advance of the end of my lease.
    Given the residual, you can never afford to buy the BMW after the lease.
  • carnaughtcarnaught Member Posts: 3,497
    With your dislike of the iDrive, Nav. and your local BMW dealer's practices I'm very surprised you went with another BMW over Lexus.

    Anyways, congrats on the car.
  • asteinbergasteinberg Member Posts: 138
    I can understand your skepticism. I was conflicted on the decision.
    I rarely use the navigation system, so I accept its below-par, obsolete operation.
    The six memory buttons allow me to put some satellite and AM there, without the cumbersome IDrive to switch.
    The gear shift is entirely counter-intuitive -- forward to reverse, back to drive.
    I'm in this now for a 2 year relatively cost-effective lease.
    But I can't believe there won't be more competition in the performance field, and without BMWs cavalier attitude that includes disregard of no-brainer features available in automobiles that cost far less.
  • carnaughtcarnaught Member Posts: 3,497
    The six memory buttons allow me to put some satellite and AM there, without the cumbersome IDrive to switch.
    The gear shift is entirely counter-intuitive -- forward to reverse, back to drive.


    Actually, I don't mind the iDrive. The concept is great but it just needs to be continually improved. It is particularly great though with use of the Bluetooth phone, the way the phonebook completely downloads and updates on the iDrive screen.

    If you think about it, all A.T. gear shifts utilize the "back to drive" motion from park.
  • asteinbergasteinberg Member Posts: 138
    Look, I like the I-Drive results in less clutter on the dash.
    But it works unproductively.
    For example, when you press navigation, it should automatically default to the navigation system.
    It's a hassle to be able to look at a map while you're doing something else.
    The screen itself is too small.
    I could go on and on.
    It requires too many steps for simple functions.
    --
    I do agree with you that the Blue Tooth function works well.
    But the problem with BMW is a general user-unfriendliness, especially notable for the navigation system, which does little compared to competitive models, where you can enter a telephone number, or a store name, and then it supplies you with the address; or enter an address even if you do not know the city name, and other systems default to the closest addresses, in order of proximtym, such as 18 Elm Street, Elm City, 18 Elm Street, San Francisco, etc.
  • carnaughtcarnaught Member Posts: 3,497
    (bop on the head) Oh ! You could have had a Lexus. (LOL)
  • ny540i6ny540i6 Member Posts: 518
    This is so funny to me... I keep having this picture of most of us showing off all the cool features of our new cars to our friends.... and you sitting there saying " Here are all the reasons the new sled sucks."
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    In fairness, the BMW navigation system is hands down the worst I've ever used. It's counter-intuitive and borderline illogical when it comes to finding a destination. After you've spent 15 minutes trying to figure out what CATEGORY :mad: your desired destination is in, the guidance is nice. That is, until you get near your destination. :( In my last car, the nav would tell me my destination is X distance ahead on the left/right/straight ahead. This nav simply says "you have arrived" even though my ultimate destination is nowhere in site. I'll admit, though, that I do have a little chuckle every time she says, "You have arrived." Just the connotation of it... ;)

    And don't get me started on the ventilation system! Hot weather is fast approaching, and I'm feverishly trying to figure out how I'm going to get it to keep me cool this summer with the automatic settings.

    I'm not throwing out the baby with the bath water, though. I'm enjoying the car otherwise.

    '08 BMW 550i Sport w/ 6-speed manual.
  • bruceomegabruceomega Member Posts: 250
    Are you sure the 528 loaner had run flat tires?

    I just went to the BMW web site, and the standard tires on the 528 are 17 x 7.5 Star Spoke (Style 138) cast alloy wheels, 225/50R-17 all-season tires, with no mention of being runflats. I went through the Build Your Own process, without checking the sport package option, and I found no wheel / tire option available.

    I stayed with the standard wheel / tire package on my 535Xi to specifically avoid run flat tires. Perhaps the ride quality you mentioned was due in part to not having run flat tires.

    Bruce
  • jb_shinjb_shin Member Posts: 357
    You are right. I had assumed all E60 came with the run flats, as does E90 I had last time.

    The second day I had the car, I was able to do more driving and while I still love the engine, the brakes positively sucked! Hard to modulate and not progressive at all.
  • lovemyclklovemyclk Member Posts: 351
    This is why I place my $$'s into BMW options that enhance the driving experience so I can enjoy the baked-in driving characteristics unique to the brand. I will NEVER spend $1800-2000+ for any confounding option when a perfectly simple solution of a cell phone and $2 map will get it done. I appreciate the latest technologies and make my living with advanced software applications, but unless it makes my driving experience better, I won't consider it... but that's just me. Give me the magic suspension setup, worldclass powertrain and general engineering excellence technology can offer and hold the Active Steering! This way, I have little to complain about!

    I've gone 55 years without a nav system and have never missed one. Somehow, I have arrived at every single destination I set out to find after entering my car without relying on a small screen I could not recognize without my "cheaters" ;) When the value proposition becomes so compelling that I can't live without it, maybe it will be time to consider nav... just isn't there yet, imo.
  • carnaughtcarnaught Member Posts: 3,497
    And don't get me started on the ventilation system! Hot weather is fast approaching, and I'm feverishly trying to figure out how I'm going to get it to keep me cool this summer with the automatic settings.


    You must be extremely overweight or have a glandular problem (LOL). I live in the sunbelt and the a/c freezes me out in summer.

    Geez, why do some people buy/lease BMW's if their Nav. and drink holders are so bad?
  • carnaughtcarnaught Member Posts: 3,497
    I've gone 55 years without a nav system and have never missed one. Somehow, I have arrived at every single destination I set out to find after entering my car without relying on a small screen I could not recognize without my "cheaters" When the value proposition becomes so compelling that I can't live without it, maybe it will be

    I used to feel the same way. Now I am reluctant to be without one. Driving quite a lot if I am in parts of town I'm not familiar with or if there's an accident or detour, the nav. screen allows me a real time look at other route options. I like and appreciate that part of nav. more than utilizing it by putting in an address and driving to it.
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,368
    And don't get me started on the ventilation system! Hot weather is fast approaching, and I'm feverishly trying to figure out how I'm going to get it to keep me cool this summer with the automatic setting

    Check your owner's manual. The ACC in your car may not be completely Automatic. In my ACC equipped E39 you must turn a manual wheel control to direct the cold air from the AC to the outlets in the cabin. It's dumb but once you do that it works as well as any AC I've ever experienced.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • bdkinnhbdkinnh Member Posts: 292
    >"I've gone 55 years without a nav system and have never missed one."

    That's what a lot of people said about garage door openers and microwaves. :)

    I agree that the navigation system stinks, though. I really like the HUD, however, and plan to get it whenever available.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    You must be extremely overweight or have a glandular problem (LOL). ...

    I don't have either of those problems. I'm guessing you probably have the vents blowing directly in your face? I don't. I like for the air to circulate through the car and to be cooled by the ambient temperature from it. Yes, if I aim the vents to blow directly at me, thereby hogging cool air from everybody else, then it'd probably freeze me out, too.

    I have an ex that does that. She has all the vents blowing at her in the warm months (April through November, sometimes December and January) and the rest of the car is a heatbox. I used to not like riding in her car at all in the summer. :( If I'm in the car for an hour or more, I'm sure it'd be fine. But my daily commute is around 15 minutes. By the time I pull in the garage at home, the vents are still blowing high, and the interior is still not all that cool. Bear in mind that I got the car this past NOVEMBER (read, the cooler part of the year) and I already have complaints. I fear it'll be hellish come June/July/AUGUST! :sick: The Parked Car Ventilation is going to get some serious workouts this Spring/Summer.
  • carnaughtcarnaught Member Posts: 3,497
    I'm guessing you probably have the vents blowing directly in your face? I don't. I

    Nope, I just have no problems whatesoever with cooling of the car to the point that it freezes me out.
  • stephenabelsonstephenabelson Member Posts: 23
    Does anyone on here have a 95 525i? How many miles do you have on your car?

    Mine has 128,000. I just got it, and I hope to keep it for a couple hundred thousand more!
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,312
    Mine has 128,000. I just got it, and I hope to keep it for a couple hundred thousand more!

    I don't own one, but I have a friend who ran his 1989 535i past 300,000 miles. Just follow the maintenance schedule to the letter and you should have no problem reaching your mileage goal...

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • prigglypriggly Member Posts: 642
    Problem is I want a rear wheel drive car and don't see much in the way of alternatives.

    Have you considered the new Pontiac G8? GM is building some excellent cars these days and this is one of them.
  • chile96chile96 Member Posts: 330
    sorry to be redundant but does anyone know if they are going to be making changes to the 550 anytime soon. Placed a refundable order but just second guessing myself. Of course the salesman says not for another 4-5 yrs ;)

    Thanks for ANY guidance
    My Best
  • tomy3tomy3 Member Posts: 46
    I just test drove a 2008 528i over the weekend. The car handled very well and was very responsive. However, there seemed to be a lot of "wind noise" or a light whistling sound when I drove on the highway environment, speeds greater that 50 MPH. It was not a leaking door gasket or window, it appeared to be generated by the air moving over the top of the car above the windshield. Before the test drive I was convinced this was the car I wanted, now I'm not so sure. Has anyone else experienced this condition and is there a remedy?
  • jlbljlbl Member Posts: 1,333
    I drove a 2004 530d along four years. I never heard "irregular" wind noise in that car. What I heard was a very light whistling sound produced by the turbo just at 2000 rpm. 2004 and 2008 bodyworks of E90 5-Series are not so different from one another as to produce noticeable wind noises particular to each one, I believe. May be the whistling you hear is caused by some uneven/detached portion of the windshield rubber seal?

    That said, I loosely remember there was wind-noise commentaries (relative to the 5-Series?) posted in some trend here in Edmunds a couple of years ago. May be some other poster can be more precise than I am being.

    Regards,
    Jose
  • ny540i6ny540i6 Member Posts: 518
    Drive a different car - easiest way to determine if it is specific to the one you drove, or if this is something you hear in all of them.
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