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BMW 5-Series Sedans

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Comments

  • srfastsrfast Posts: 138
    E39/E46 in MY03 cars. You need to purchase the part and install it. Here is a link with more info: http://www.circlebmw.com/cgi-bin/acc/acc.cgi?db=acc&uid=&- Series=E39&Code=105&Partnumber=&view_records=Search

    Hope this helps...JL
  • Many thanks for the link to adapter kit. Perfect!
    -Billbrox
  • ewoqewoq Posts: 37
    FWIW, a generic comment, followed by many links to explanations (from simple to technical) for torque and horsepower.

    From Smart Motorist:
    Performance - Performance has become an important safety feature for modern drivers. A responsive gas pedal allows you another option (brake or accelerate) when an accident unfolds before you. Good performance allows you to pass slow-moving vehicles on country roads, and to merge into fast-moving feeder lanes on expressways. Fast thinking and a responsive throttle can help you to avoid an accident that a slower vehicle couldn't.

    When evaluating a vehicle, take a close look at the engine size (expressed in liters), the number of cylinders (4, 6, or 8), and the engine's power output (expressed in horsepower). By comparing the horsepower of two different vehicles with the same drive train and overall weight, you can determine which vehicle is faster, or has the better performance. A lighter car will be faster than a heavier one if the horsepower is the same. An engine's strength (expressed as torque) is determined by two factors, the number of cylinders and its horsepower. A six-cylinder engine with 140 horsepower will have more torque than a four-cylinder engine with the same horsepower rating.

    Double overhead cam (DOHC)-equipped engines offer many advantages over single overhead cam (SOHC) engines. Because DOHC engines have twice as many intake and exhaust valves as a SOHC motor, they run cooler and more smoothly, quietly, and efficiently. To ensure against costly DOHC engine repairs, make sure you change your engine's timing belt every 60,000 miles.

    Performance-minded shoppers may be looking for turbocharged or supercharged vehicles. These have performance-enhancing devices that re-utilize the engine's exhaust flow (turbocharger) or excess torque (supercharger) to increase the horsepower.

    http://www.nissanperformancemag.com/november98/torque.shtml

    http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/techcenter/articles/43844/articl- - e.html

    http://www.automotivehelper.com/topic109796.htm

    http://www.off-road.com/hummer/tech/power.html

    http://homepage.mac.com/dgiessel/engine/hpvstq.html

    http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/868/

    http://dynoperformance.com/article_details.php?ID=3

    http://www.dynacam.com/Product/Torque_vs__Horsepower/torque_vs__h- - orsepower.html

    http://www.revsearch.com/dynamometer/torque_vs_horsepower.html

    http://vettenet.org/torquehp.html

    http://www.allpar.com/eek/hp-vs-torque.html
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    I find the next-to-last link in ewoqs post to be fairly well-written and comprehensive. The difference can be confusing especially since "horsepower" is a misnomer. Thanks to ewoq for compiling the links.
  • Thanks ewog. That was very helpful and just what I was looking for.
  • manybmwsmanybmws Posts: 347
    Had it installed in my MY03 530. About $130 installed. Works great.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Edmunds Full Test of the 2004 530i is up - you can access via the Helpful Links box on the left side of the page. Check it out!
  • muddogmuddog Posts: 26
    Realizing how individualized buying decisions are, and having read many posts that discuss the Sport Package issue, I'm going to solicit some advice. I'm heading toward leaving my 2000 MB E430 behind, and getting a 545i, automatic. The main remaining issue is the Sport Package. I like the active steering, but believe that other things -- like the wheel size and low profile tires -- will not be suited to my needs.

    I like to drive a nice car, with performance features, but I spend 99% of my time on city streets or highways, don't fancy a "sports car" type feel, but don't want (yet) the refrigerator effect of Lexus 430. I am inclined to NOT do the Sports Package (after initially believing I wanted it), because it does not seem to fit my driving needs very well -- would "perform," but would be "rougher" over city streets, etc. (like my wife's FX35 -- it is fun, but very bouncy).

    Would appreciate any thoughts about whether I am overlooking or misanalyzing something. While it's not the $3300, I don't think I'd be getting my money's worth, when some of the non-Sport Package things seem to fit better for me.

    Thanks, anyone.

    Muddog
  • ny540i6ny540i6 Posts: 518
    I would suggest... NOT getting SP. The base is at a pretty high level of performance, and you seem to be pretty clear as to your desires/needs.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    I suggest that you take a test drive over some bad roads in both SP and non/SP trim. Find a road that is unacceptably harsh in the FX35, and then drove both BMWs over the same road. One of the cool things about BMWs (including their SP equipped cars), is the amount of suspension travel/compliance for less than perfect roads. I have the SP on my 530i, and other than the very occasional severe frost heave, my car soaks up road imperfections with relative aplomb.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • sdg380sdg380 Posts: 109
    Mud, I got shouted down on this topic recently, but I stand by my recommendation that you can live without the SP, and still have a plenty firm and well-controlled ride.

    For the record, I've got an '02 530, had a '91 525 before that, and my wife had an '92 325, all without SP, and all handled great (and rode firmly).

    Now here in the Midwest, our roads are winter-ravaged, so the firmer SP ride, from stiffer suspension and low profile tires, just detracts from ride comfort, in my opinion (and invites dented rims). But the standard BMW suspension is not exactly a luxo-barge, and I think is a very good compromise between sport and luxury.

    If you plan to do any driving in inclemate conditions, there is little argument that the SP tires are completely unsuitable, thus mandating complete extra set of tires/wheels, and bi-annual swaps as long as you own the car. Just too inconvenient for me, but others didn't seem to mind.

    Aside from extra cost (which I don't think does much to enhance resale), and mixed reviews on Active Steering (which you'll get whether you like it or not with the SP), I don't think you could get a heated steering wheel with the SP (at least in '02), and that heated wheel is money well-spent around here. And while Active Roll Stabilization may be a worthwhile feature, I don't think it's essential, and it's not a stand-alone option (but at least it can be defeated, unlike Active Steering.) Also, I'm ignoring reliability/maintenance issues, but after all the Active Steering is brand new techology.

    My post number #8418 talked about this, many disagreed, but some agreed--and I couldn't help but wonder if some who espoused the SP were in warmer/drier climes, so the wheel swap and harsher ride were not such issues.

    I dare say you may hear from Riez, but I don't think he's had to deal with bi-annual wheel swaps or chewed-up roads--but we'll see (no gas intended Riez!)
  • muddogmuddog Posts: 26
    First, thanks to Shipo, ny540i6 and sdg380 for your replies. Appreciate that.

    Probably a dumb question -- can you get the Sport Package without the larger wheels/low profile tires, and get the active steering but reduce the "sporty roughness"? [I realize that the "real" drivers out there think that's a dumb idea anyway, but I like smoother.]

    I'm in San Antonio, so the winter wheel/tire swap is not an issue; but, like most cities, the roads are ALWAYS behind where they should be, maintenance-wise, so the extra cushion that comes from the smaller, higher profile just seems to fit me better (and I swear the rims on my MB are out of round because of potholes, etc.). But I will try both on 530's (can't really test drive the few 545s that come through, although I did drive one that a guy didn't pick up -- awesome), to see the difference.

    Anyone else who has thoughts, I welcome all perspectives. And appreciate folks' taking the time.

    Muddog
  • joatmonjoatmon Posts: 315
    I'll weigh in on this topic.

    First, if you read all eight billion and some odd posts, you'll find several lamentations on the missing sport pack. You'll also see that most of these cases are folks whose budget didn't allow them to "check all the boxes". Later, they said something like, "I would give up the 3.0 w/o SP for a 2.5 w/ SP" and such. I don't recall any posters that had the wherewithall to do it up front, chose not to, and then regretted it.

    Second, the BMW 5 is a great drive without the sport pack. If you drive a 5 with sport pack and say, "Wow, I HAVE to have this", then by all means order it. But, if that's not your reaction, then you can and should live without it.

    Third, get the car YOU want. No need playin' the mines better/bigger/faster/redder/meaner/badder than yours game. Get what you want, then forget about it.

    Enjoy the ride,

    Happy Jack
  • sdg380sdg380 Posts: 109
    ...clearly, in the South you avoid the whole wheel swap issue, but in answer to your question, the SP is just that, a package, and I think the only thing you could change would be the wheels/tires (hard to say at what cost.) Active Steering is always "on", but I think Active Roll Stabilization can be turned "off', but don't know if that reduces "sporty roughness", as you say--may just deactivate the variable nature of the susupension to a "default" firm effect.

    Now personally, I'd go where I think you might be headed, a 545 w/o SP, just a few select options to keep the MSRP as far south of $60k as possible--but that's the "value" shopper in me!
  • jbf5jbf5 Posts: 32
    Does anyone know whether the auxiliary audio input adapter requires dealer install, or can you install it yourself? (See Srfst's post #8474 above).

    Thanks.

    J
  • ksomanksoman Posts: 590
    ooooo, considering how most edmunds reviews of BMW cars are like BMW was created by god, this one really is a slap in the face. I still like the 5 overall if i overlook parts of the tail.

    ksso
  • srfastsrfast Posts: 138
    The kit comes with very detailed install documentation and should take 90 minutes max. If you are not comfortable doing it yourself, purchase the adapter and have a local auto audio shop do it. Their labor rate is much lower than any BMW service dept.

    Hope this helps....JL
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    I think that the Edmunds review of the E60 530i is quite fair given all of the controversy the new car has generated. The one thing that struck me was the slow acceleration numbers that they posted, 7.2 seconds to 60? What's up with that? I thought the new car was supposed to be slightly lighter than the old one, and as such, should be faster.

    The posting of the new article reminded me that I had taken issue with some of the factoids from the previous article titled, "BMW 5 Series - The Best Car in the World?" According to my E-Mail to the powers that be at Edmunds dated 22-Jan-2004, the original version of the article said, "Then in 1968 BMW introduced the large "E21" (its designation inside BMW) sedan powered by a new range of inline six-cylinder engines and sold as the 2500 when equipped with a 2.5-liter version of the six and the 2800 with a 2.8-liter displacement."

    In my E-Mail I wrote, "It is my understanding that the E21 BMW model designation was assigned to the 3-Series range of cars between 1975 and 1983. As for the old 2500 and 2800/Bavaria (referenced in the article), I thought that they were designated E3."

    On 26-Jan-2004 I received the following reply:
    "Dale,
    You've got a sharp eye. Indeed the "E21" designation was for the 3 Series, not the 5 Series. We will make the correction.

    Thanks.

    John DiPietro
    Road Test Editor
    Edmunds.com"


    Sure enough, upon checking the article I see that they have substantially re-written the paragraph regarding the 5-Series ancestors. Unfortunately I don't think it reads as well as the original layout (minus the incorrect factoids of course). I guess that's why they get the big bucks. ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • cericceric Posts: 1,093
    quote:
    "Because DOHC engines have twice as many intake and exhaust valves as a SOHC motor, they run cooler and more smoothly, quietly, and efficiently."

    That may be a typo from you, I suppose. DOHC has very little to do with number of valves comparing to SOHC. DOHC has twin cams to control valves, one for intake valves, the other for exhaust valves. SOHC use a single cam to control all valves. Due to separate control of valves, DOHC engines are able to obtain better performance by tuning valve timing more optimally than SOHC counterparts. For example, many I-4 engines have 16V no matter that are SOHC or DOHC. However, it is likely to have less valves on SOHC engines than on DOHC, which makes sense from cost point of view.

    I hope no one got confused from reading #8476. Just FYI.
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    muddog. Test drive one with and without the Sport Package. That is the only way you'll know.

    Believe joatmon is absolutely right. Can't remember anyone bemoaning having the Sport Pkg but have read a lot of posts from buyers who regret not having it. And posts from 2nd or 3rd BMW buyers who didn't have the Sport Pkg on their first car but do have it on their subsequent car(s).

    At least for the E38, E39, and E46 the Sport Pkg is a must! Only time will tell about the E60 and E65, but if history repeats, the buyer who loves to drive will get the Sport Pkg.

    I live in the snowy/icy midwest and loved my 540i6! No problems with ride or wheels.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    I just sent the following message to BMW in Woodcliff Lake, NJ, it should be interesting to see what they have to say. Hmmm, probably something like, "See yah!" :-/

    With only one year remaining on the lease for my 530i, I am starting the shopping process for my next car. I feel compelled to say that I am stunned and dismayed at the hideous look of the new E60 5-Series. How could BMW have taken what was arguably the nicest looking sedan in the world and redesigned it to be arguably the ugliest? What were the collective minds at the top of BMW thinking?

    While performance is one of my key criteria, the look and styling of a car is just as important, and as such, I have had to remove the new 5-Series from consideration.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Good job. Now send it to Munich. If everyone who signed the petition wrote letters, we'd get places faster. I believe it is starting to sink in... they appear to have made a welcome improvement on the front end of the 7. I wonder if the delay of the M5 has to do with engine development or styling issues. We can't have a rocket ship that looks dorky. Even the AMGs LOOK like they mean business.
  • savorasavora Posts: 25
    I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I really do like the redesign, and its look is what attracted me to the car...

    By the way, I do find it odd that after what seems to be a negative review, that the car was still the editors most wanted car in its price range....

    Anyways, I saw that in the full test review, they looked at the new stereo system (Logic 7). does anyone know of any professional reviews, or have an opinion about the standard stereo that comes with the car.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    I just got a response from BMW-USA. I suspect it is a form letter, and that I'm probably the ten thousandth person to get it, but for those of you who are interested, here it is:

    Dear Mr. Shipo:

    Thank you for contacting BMW of North America, LLC regarding the design
    of the new BMW 5 Series. I am sorry to read that you dislike the new
    style of the 5 Series and that you will not consider the new 5 Series as
    your next vehicle. However, we very much appreciate hearing from our
    loyal owners and thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts
    with us. I have forwarded your comments to the appropriate department.
    Please keep in touch with us as your feedback is very important to us.

    If you have any further questions, please respond to this e-mail or
    contact the Customer Relations Department at 1-800-831-1117, Monday
    through Friday from 9:00 A.M. to 9:00 P.M., Eastern Standard Time.

    Sincerely,
    Karen Labatzky
    Customer Relations & Services
    Representative
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    The thing that comes across to me in the Edmunds review is the cost vs product issue. I think it was a strategic error designing around the old engine. Competition is really getting hot out there with muscle.

    I saw a guy driving a G35 hard this morning. The car looks strong and able to hold its own with handling… has a nice gait on corners. Heck, maybe nothing beats the BMW drivetrain and handling… but at that price this car is going to give the 5 a big run for the money on both muscle and appearance points.

    As always there is perception and reality. Performance issues notwithstanding, seems the G35 will be riding the perception wave hard in the minds of lots of buyers. Not good for both the 3 and 5 series. Not good for BMW.
  • savorasavora Posts: 25
    I think its a valid competitor of the 3 series, but the 5 series... I don't think so. I see the E320, Lexus GS/LS, Acura TL, Infinity M, being the main competitors
  • sunilbsunilb Posts: 407
    That response from BMWNA reminds me of some lyrics from a Talking Heads song...

    "You talk a lot, but you're not saying anything"

    I mean, it's nice that they responded at all but it seemed rather weak.

    With regard to looks, the front of the new 5 is actually growing on me... though, I think it's probably cause I'm usually happier to see it rather than the rear-end of the car (which I can't stand; much less the slab-sides).

    It almost seems like the main mission of the 5's design was to make the 7 look good ;)
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    "It almost seems like the main mission of the 5's design was to make the 7 look good ;)"

    Ain't that the truth! I have been one of those folks who has never liked the E65, and you're right, the E60 makes the E65 look rather nice. :-/

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • tenet1tenet1 Posts: 354
    Did you expect anything else? Nothing they can say will make anyone that writes such a letter happy.

    BMWNA knows that there are many who dont like the new design (atleast not yet). So, to them they say, "However, we very much appreciate hearing from our loyal owners and thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts with us". What else should they write. "Sorry about that, let us fix it and get back to you with a new one right away". I don't think so.

    There is a world of cars out there to choose from, so I guess we are fortunate.

    I personally am beginning to like the new 5. Too bad it is so darn expensive now.
  • sunilbsunilb Posts: 407
    Oh, I don't expect them to indicate that they would fix it or anything. I just think that sometimes saying nothing is more valuable than trying to put words around saying nothing (know what I mean?).

    Or, if they cared (or wanted to pretend that they did) they could have asked what specifically he didn't like about the design and why. (customer insights like this are valuable, provided they have sufficient data points). Toyota listened a lot to consumers when they were prototyping the initial Lexus brand and models... and they aren't doing too badly.

    Perhaps, BMW did the requisite research when designing this... or perhaps they gave Bangle free reign on this. I don't know for sure, but I'm speculating that it's the latter.

    BMW may be alienating their base in order to appeal to a wider audience. Good idea? We'll find out after a full year's sales are in.
    Admittedly, the critics are always louder than those that are happy with the [r]evolution.

    Prices are definitely getting ugly for us. I can't believe the dollar has fallen as far as it has.
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