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BMW 5-Series Sedans

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  • sdg380sdg380 Posts: 109
    NY, thanks for the details, in view of the documented performance gains, I'm not too surprised that mods included new, less restrictive exhaust, per my above comments on tuned bikes (sounds "throatier", right, not louder?--wink). If you find the dyno test, I'd be interested if you gave up some mid-range.

    Interesting mod with the clutch to improve throttle response.

    "allows me to stick the "DINAN" on the back of the car"

    That sticker should be good for a couple of tenths on your ET right there!

    Sounds like a neat ride, lots of performance without going hard-core M. What color? Something stealthy, or Arrest-Me-Red?
  • The new 5 series just got slammed in the latest IIHS side impact tests. This really surprised me.
    http://www.iihs.org/news/rss/pr081607.html
  • ny540i6ny540i6 Posts: 518
    Sdg,

    It is a nice sedate metallic black, usually dusty enough to be stealthy. lol

    The Dinan exhaust has a really nice sound to it, deeper, and yes throatier... I remember saying to the Dinan folks that the biggest problem they would have is that many people would not consider it loud enough! IMO it sounds best in low speed, low RPM situations, like a 2nd gear roll from a yield or stop sign. It only really barks when you stick your foot in it like when passing in 4th.

    The mods I've done to this car were all intended to enhance, rather than to drastically change/improve. I like the fact that it starts every time, that it has AC that works, that it idles quietly etc. I've stayed away from the suspension so far because i don't want to screw it up. Besides, to be blunt, the stock suspension is already way more capable than I am willing to find out.

    The next mods should have been the first - I plan slamming it about 3 inches, for that glued to the pavement look, and going to 12x20's on the rear, running 355/20/20s - And pigs will fly! LOLOL
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,848
    Disclaimer: I know both Steve Dinan and Jim Conforti and have tracked and competed in cars using their software(my Dinan chipped 1988 M6 won its Autocross class at Oktoberfest 1994) I have never had any reason to doubt the truthfulness of their claims regarding their chips or ECU reflashes.

    Is peak power boosted at the expense of mid-range?

    Usually not, based on the cars I've driven and their dyno results. Conforti began re-mapping the part-throttle curves when Dinan was still just modifying WOT parameters- or as Jim puts it:

    "Not only do we re-map part-throttle fuel and spark, we also re-map other areas of chips other tuners don't touch - such as acceleration enrichment, transition fueling (how the car responds to rapid change in pedal, and VANOS control as needed to optimize the vehicle for operation on premium fuel (91+ octane)."

    Note that the newer naturally aspirated Bimmers(mostly 2004+) leave little additional HP on the table.

    Are you saying that optimizing for one fuel grade is the source of the extra hp?

    Partially. Dinan and Conforti both assume that you will only use the highest grade of pump gas available and that you will keep the car properly tuned(correct spark plugs, clean air and fuel filters, etc.). Putting it another way, they remove a bit of the safety cushion that BMW built in to compensate for less than optimal maintenance and care.

    Actually, with knock sensors on modern engines, I thought they were capable of optimizing performance for fuel grade. Why aren't the original ECM maps designed to offer this performance if mileage doesn't suffer (or is improved)?

    See above. Also, the factory ignition map may provide for a maximum ignition advance of say, 25 degrees. The engine may actually be able to handle several degees more advance when running 91 AKI fuel. The re-map will increase the advance and rely on the detonation sensors in a worst case scenario. Why doesn't BMW build them this way from the factory? Beats me. On the M42 engines fitted with the DISA dual resonance intake system there is a hiccup at @4500 rpm when the DISA valve switches to the high rpm intake tracts. Conforti's chip eliminates the surge entirely, while adding 11 hp at 5500 rpm and 19 lb. ft of torque at only 2500 rpm. Dinan and Conforti also freely admit that some BMWs don't respond to chipping or re-mapping. Of course, in other cases there's even more power to be found by modifying the intake, exhaust, injector capacity, etc. A classic example is the Conforti Euro Intake kit for the 1995 M3. The combination of a CAI, a Euro HFM, and a dedicated chip yields 32 hp. In contrast, my Mazdaspeed3 will pick up 20+ hp by merely adding a MS CAI. Go figure.

    2009 328i / 2004 X3 2.5/ 1995 318ti Club Sport/ 1975 2002A/ 2007 Mazdaspeed 3/ 1999 Wrangler/ 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica

  • ny540i6ny540i6 Posts: 518
    Yeah, what HE said. LOL
  • prigglypriggly Posts: 642
    BMW may have a longstanding (and well-deserved) reputation for safety, but the results of the latest round of IIHS crash testing may cloud that perception a bit in the U.S., at least for safety-conscious shoppers. In a batch of six sedans recently tested, the 2008 BMW 5-Series sedan was rated 'Marginal' - the next-to-lowest possible score - in the agency's side-impact tests despite having standard head and torso side airbags.

    http://www.thecarconnection.com/Auto_News/Daily_Auto_News/Amanti_Safer_Than_5-Se- ries.S173.A13250.html?srccd=cn20070817

    It is inexcusable that a car of this caliber should receive only a marginal rating in side impact testing.

    Perhaps BMW should spend less time on foolishness like i-Drive and more time and effort on improving the structural rigidity and crashworthiness of their 5 series. Simply appalling.
  • bmw335xibmw335xi Posts: 11
    I think it is a disapointment to the BMW name!! :cry: I agree with you on the i-drive but the kia is no match to the Bimmer. Now when the new Hyundai comes out they may have a proublem. I would never buy a kia over a Bmw but as we know they will fix it to bmw quilty.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    You know..., I've been hearing where various BMWs have performed less than satisfactorily on many IIHS crashes for at least a decade, and yet, insurance company actuarial data suggests that BMWs are just about the safest cars one can drive these days. Geez, my brand new 2002 530i with an MSRP of nearly $49,000 was as inexpensive to insure as our (then) four year old Dodge Grand Caravan. I asked my agent why it was so inexpensive to insure and she said, "They're hard to steal and they're safe to be in when in an accident."

    So, why the disconnect? The best explanation that I've heard is that BMW engineers engineer their cars to be safe in many, many scenarios, tests be damned. Sometimes the IIHS tests coincide with their analysis of what is safe, and the car gets a good score on that test, some times the tests don't.

    I liken this situation in a weird way to the whole Hybrid debacle, Hybrids it seems were developed to exploit the flawed EPA mileage testing, and as such these cars were released to the market with obscenely exaggerated mileage numbers, numbers that the cars cannot hope to achieve in real world driving. Meanwhile, cars like the BMWs that I have driven have had absolutely no problem exceeding their EPA ratings, even at extra legal speeds.

    Long story short, I'll gladly take my chances in a BMW, even in a side impact collision.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,976
    In addition to what shipo said, you have to take the test results with a grain of salt. The E60 (current body style) BMW 5 series was completely redesigned for the 2004 model year. Every car in its class (E-Class, Volvo S80, Audi A6...) are pretty much brand new cars for '07 or '08.

    Read real life testimonials in BMW Magazine, Roundel Magazine (official magazine of the BMWCCA), and Posts & pictures on Bimmerfest. BMW isn't building flimsy cars!

    My wife's '07 X3 3.0si is a little cheaper to insure than her former 7 year old Mazda Protege.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Subaru Legacy 2.5i Premium

  • rjlaerorjlaero Posts: 659
    I think all these cars are still pretty safe with side airbags and such. But this will no doubt cause BMW some business with people on the fence of which car they want to buy a car via safety ratings. But I doubt this will hurt the loyal BMW-ists that much and keep them from buying a 5 series.
  • "In addition to what shipo said, you have to take the test results with a grain of salt. The E60 (current body style) BMW 5 series was completely redesigned for the 2004 model year. Every car in its class (E-Class, Volvo S80, Audi A6...) are pretty much brand new cars for '07 or '08."

    The one they tested was the new model.

    Shipo's point about there being some types of collisions where a car does better/worse is surely correct. It's just impossible to make objective comparisons among cars given the vagaries and anecdotal nature of real world collisions. Watch the video presentation on the IIHS site http://www.iihs.org/news/default.html (Aug 16 news release) and decide for yourself on whether the scenario that their engineers developed to simulate being T-boned in the drivers door relates to a situation one might possibly encounter.

    Unfortunately all cars are a bit flimsy when they get hit in this location. Just take a look at the penetration that happens for any of them with a 30 mph impact. It appears that the side airbag in the 5 didn't protect the driver as well as it did in the other cars. Seems like a problem that their excellent engineers could solve.
  • I wonder why they don't have at least one diesel engine for the 5 series to compete with the E320 Blutech. BMW could send the 535d. It has a 3.0 liter I6 with 272 hp and 414 lb ft of torque. 0-60 mph is 6.5 seconds yet it still gets about 40 mpg.
  • ny540i6ny540i6 Posts: 518
    The diesel is gonna happen. They are getting cleaner, power is up, torque is phenomenal, and fuel prices will soon make it a real choice.
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,848
    The diesel is gonna happen.

    BMW has already announced that they will offer a diesel powered vehicle in 2008. My sources tell me that the oil burner will initially be available in the X3 or X5. My first choice would be a 335d Touring with the M-Sport package.

    2009 328i / 2004 X3 2.5/ 1995 318ti Club Sport/ 1975 2002A/ 2007 Mazdaspeed 3/ 1999 Wrangler/ 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,976
    I understand the model they tested was a new 2008 5 series, but the body, chassis, and structure are identical to the '04.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Subaru Legacy 2.5i Premium

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,976
    The diesels are coming! BMW is waiting for their diesels to be 50 state emission legal. MBs Bluetec diesels are currently only emission legal in 45 states. The 5 states that the bluetecs aren't emission legal in are CA, NY, NJ, MA, & RI (I think). 4 of these states are HUGE markets for BMW, so they are wise to wait.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Subaru Legacy 2.5i Premium

  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Actually the CARB and CARB wannabe states now number nine (plus Canada) and are as follows CA, CT, MA, ME, NJ, NY, RI, VT and WA. Oddly enough I now live in New Hampshire, a state surrounded on all sides by CARB wannabes. :P

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • bdkinnhbdkinnh Posts: 292
    Not entirely. They made changes on the 2008 driver's door and armrest, which is actually what caused most of the damage to the dummy.

    Did anyone else notice that the tests were done with a small female dummy? Wonder what they would be like with a 5'10" 180 pound male.
  • zoelmanzoelman Posts: 15
    is there much difference between BMW dealers and the service they offer quality-wise? i just bought a cpo 2004 545i with extended warranty.

    is location the only factor or are there other things to look for when hooking up with a dealer for all service needs? i live in the los angeles area, with three BMW dealers within a reasonable distance, Pacific (Glendale), Beverly Hills, and one in Studio City/Universal City.

    thanks.
  • Zoelman how do you like the 5? I wondered if you could review it? All the 5's with sprt pkgs. in the forum have been 6 cyl. cars. How is the ride and handling and power? Did you drive the non spt? Do you know if you have driven the 3 sprt. and can you compare the 3 and the 5? Did the non sprt handle very well? Are you young? I am taking a poll of whether mostly young people want the sprts. Thanks
  • ~"Not entirely. They made changes on the 2008 driver's door and armrest, which is ~actually what caused most of the damage to the dummy.

    ~Did anyone else notice that the tests were done with a small female dummy? Wonder ~what they would be like with a 5'10" 180 pound male.

    Good point about the changes. My guess is that the larger occupant--having more inertia and being closer to the action--would fare worse.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,976
    I don't doubt you for a second shipo, but they do sell MB diesels in CT. Living in Westchester, I see them all the time.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Subaru Legacy 2.5i Premium

  • zoelmanzoelman Posts: 15
    Not sure i can review it, it would be a novice review as that is not my profession. i'll give it a shot!

    i do have the 545i with the sport package - and i have to say i love it. the ride, handling and balance is awesome, and the power is the icing on the cake that pushes it over the top. it feels very stable at all speeds and in all situations, i wish there was a track around i could really open it up in, alas...but just driving on the freeways and around town it has really performed. on freeways at speed, a slight tap and it jumps around or down the road quite handily - and you know there is more available if needed.

    i was actually looking for a 530i, as i wasn't angling for a v8 in a sedan, but came across this one (cpo, loaded and with low miles) and they gave me a great deal on it. and epa mileage estimates for the 530 and 545 were basically the same for the 2004 models. where's the downside? ok, depending on how heavy your foot is, the 545 has the potential to use more gas. but the fun factor and knowing that extra hp is there if needed (or wanted) is worth the small savings in mpg for me. and i did drive several 530i's in my search and they were fine and i am sure i would have enjoyed that car if i found one at the time.

    and i did drive a non-sport package 530i, it felt a little less responsive in some ways, but it was not a long drive so my comparison is limited.

    but to take a quote from a movie that opened up and delved into the intellectual aspirations of all of mankind and the human condition, "this one goes to eleven......"

    i am over 40, if that's of any help.

    no, i didn't drive a 3, as we already had a 3 that we traded in, because with two kids and my wife, i wanted something a bit bigger, etc. but not ready for the 7.

    best,
    zoelman
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,976

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Subaru Legacy 2.5i Premium

  • cmr530icmr530i Posts: 278
    FWIW, I go to Pacific and have always had a pleasurable experience. I bought my 530 from them in 2001 and enjoy the fact that I can get a loaner BMW car when I schedule a service. I think I am correct in saying that if you didn't purchase from them you can get a rental car from Enterprise on the premises. My car has always been well taken care of there, with all issues addressed, in a pleasant manner.
    Where did you buy your CPO? To me, being able to get a BMW loaner rather than just any rental is worth traveling for.
  • bdkinnhbdkinnh Posts: 292
    >"Completely Mangled E39 M5..."

    Would you happen to have a link that doesn't require me to purchase a subscription or provide an account number?
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,976
    And it comes up. I'll try again...sorry folks!

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Subaru Legacy 2.5i Premium

  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    In spite of the video I would take my "chances" any day in a BMW vs the Amanti and would put "my money where my mouth is" in a hearbeat.
  • topspin628topspin628 Posts: 373
    Did anyone cross shop these two Beemers? It's interesting to see that on the BMW web site you can do a side by side comparo and the interior volume in the 7 is only about 4 more inches. Leg room difference in the rear seems negligible too. I really like the style of the 7 and the last time I test drove the 2 back to back, it did give more of a big car lux feel. Are the horror stories over re I drive and electronic glitches?
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,848
    Did anyone cross shop these two Beemers?

    Please remember for future reference:
    Beemer= BMW Motorcycle
    Bimmer= BMW Automobile

    I really like the style of the 7 and the last time I test drove the 2 back to back, it did give more of a big car lux feel.

    IMO, you shouldn't buy a BMW for "a big car lux feel"; that's a Lexus specialty. I've spent a little seat time in the 7 Series, and it drives smaller than it actually is- but it's still a bit too much of a boat to suit me. If I was forced to drive a 7er, my only choice would be the B7, which is an honest driver's car. If I had to choose between a 550i and a 750i, I'd take a 550i with a manual and Sport Package over any permutation of the 7. Well, I still might take the B7.

    2009 328i / 2004 X3 2.5/ 1995 318ti Club Sport/ 1975 2002A/ 2007 Mazdaspeed 3/ 1999 Wrangler/ 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica

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