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BMW 5-Series Sedans



  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    I just sent the following message to BMW in Woodcliff Lake, NJ, it should be interesting to see what they have to say. Hmmm, probably something like, "See yah!" :-/

    With only one year remaining on the lease for my 530i, I am starting the shopping process for my next car. I feel compelled to say that I am stunned and dismayed at the hideous look of the new E60 5-Series. How could BMW have taken what was arguably the nicest looking sedan in the world and redesigned it to be arguably the ugliest? What were the collective minds at the top of BMW thinking?

    While performance is one of my key criteria, the look and styling of a car is just as important, and as such, I have had to remove the new 5-Series from consideration.

    Best Regards,
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Good job. Now send it to Munich. If everyone who signed the petition wrote letters, we'd get places faster. I believe it is starting to sink in... they appear to have made a welcome improvement on the front end of the 7. I wonder if the delay of the M5 has to do with engine development or styling issues. We can't have a rocket ship that looks dorky. Even the AMGs LOOK like they mean business.
  • savorasavora Posts: 25
    I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I really do like the redesign, and its look is what attracted me to the car...

    By the way, I do find it odd that after what seems to be a negative review, that the car was still the editors most wanted car in its price range....

    Anyways, I saw that in the full test review, they looked at the new stereo system (Logic 7). does anyone know of any professional reviews, or have an opinion about the standard stereo that comes with the car.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    I just got a response from BMW-USA. I suspect it is a form letter, and that I'm probably the ten thousandth person to get it, but for those of you who are interested, here it is:

    Dear Mr. Shipo:

    Thank you for contacting BMW of North America, LLC regarding the design
    of the new BMW 5 Series. I am sorry to read that you dislike the new
    style of the 5 Series and that you will not consider the new 5 Series as
    your next vehicle. However, we very much appreciate hearing from our
    loyal owners and thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts
    with us. I have forwarded your comments to the appropriate department.
    Please keep in touch with us as your feedback is very important to us.

    If you have any further questions, please respond to this e-mail or
    contact the Customer Relations Department at 1-800-831-1117, Monday
    through Friday from 9:00 A.M. to 9:00 P.M., Eastern Standard Time.

    Karen Labatzky
    Customer Relations & Services
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    The thing that comes across to me in the Edmunds review is the cost vs product issue. I think it was a strategic error designing around the old engine. Competition is really getting hot out there with muscle.

    I saw a guy driving a G35 hard this morning. The car looks strong and able to hold its own with handling… has a nice gait on corners. Heck, maybe nothing beats the BMW drivetrain and handling… but at that price this car is going to give the 5 a big run for the money on both muscle and appearance points.

    As always there is perception and reality. Performance issues notwithstanding, seems the G35 will be riding the perception wave hard in the minds of lots of buyers. Not good for both the 3 and 5 series. Not good for BMW.
  • savorasavora Posts: 25
    I think its a valid competitor of the 3 series, but the 5 series... I don't think so. I see the E320, Lexus GS/LS, Acura TL, Infinity M, being the main competitors
  • sunilbsunilb Posts: 407
    That response from BMWNA reminds me of some lyrics from a Talking Heads song...

    "You talk a lot, but you're not saying anything"

    I mean, it's nice that they responded at all but it seemed rather weak.

    With regard to looks, the front of the new 5 is actually growing on me... though, I think it's probably cause I'm usually happier to see it rather than the rear-end of the car (which I can't stand; much less the slab-sides).

    It almost seems like the main mission of the 5's design was to make the 7 look good ;)
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    "It almost seems like the main mission of the 5's design was to make the 7 look good ;)"

    Ain't that the truth! I have been one of those folks who has never liked the E65, and you're right, the E60 makes the E65 look rather nice. :-/

    Best Regards,
  • tenet1tenet1 Posts: 354
    Did you expect anything else? Nothing they can say will make anyone that writes such a letter happy.

    BMWNA knows that there are many who dont like the new design (atleast not yet). So, to them they say, "However, we very much appreciate hearing from our loyal owners and thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts with us". What else should they write. "Sorry about that, let us fix it and get back to you with a new one right away". I don't think so.

    There is a world of cars out there to choose from, so I guess we are fortunate.

    I personally am beginning to like the new 5. Too bad it is so darn expensive now.
  • sunilbsunilb Posts: 407
    Oh, I don't expect them to indicate that they would fix it or anything. I just think that sometimes saying nothing is more valuable than trying to put words around saying nothing (know what I mean?).

    Or, if they cared (or wanted to pretend that they did) they could have asked what specifically he didn't like about the design and why. (customer insights like this are valuable, provided they have sufficient data points). Toyota listened a lot to consumers when they were prototyping the initial Lexus brand and models... and they aren't doing too badly.

    Perhaps, BMW did the requisite research when designing this... or perhaps they gave Bangle free reign on this. I don't know for sure, but I'm speculating that it's the latter.

    BMW may be alienating their base in order to appeal to a wider audience. Good idea? We'll find out after a full year's sales are in.
    Admittedly, the critics are always louder than those that are happy with the [r]evolution.

    Prices are definitely getting ugly for us. I can't believe the dollar has fallen as far as it has.
  • tenet1tenet1 Posts: 354
    I guess long term sales will tell the story of the E60. I for one and really starting to like this car. I hated the rear but really love it now, especially when following an e60 on the freeway. This car has presence and a very fresh look, and from what I have read so far on various message boards, this vehicle drives better than the e39. I think that the new design will grow on people as did the e46. Though I am not sure if I will ever like the whale shaped 7 series.

    Lets hope they dont raise the prices when the new engines are out.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    "I think that the new design will grow on people as did the e46."

    Hmmm, I've been participating on this board since before the E46 came out, and while I heard various gripes about how the E46 was bigger and slightly heavier than the E36, I don't think I ever heard folks decry its looks. In fact, from what I remember, most folks thought that the E46 was at least as attractive as the E36.

    The E60 and E65 are another matter entirely; true, there are a number of folks that find them attractive, however, my bet is that the E60 5-Series doesn't sell anywhere near as well over its life span as the E39 did. Time will tell. In the case of the E65, it seems to be at lease selling as well as its ancestor, however, from my perspective, that car wasn't all that exciting either. To me at least, BMW attempted to do what Dodge did with the pickup truck back in 1994, which was to replace a model that was rather milquetoast in appearance with one with a more revolutionary look. It worked for Dodge; I seriously doubt that it will work for BMW.

    Best Regards,
  • Sounds like you guys are expecting "design by committee." That might make for an entertaining show on HGTV, but it would be disaster for designing a sports sedan. No ... I much prefer the singular vision of one "mad scientist" (though, in truth, not even Bangle was flying solo on the E60 design -- there was a pretty well-qualified team working around him). I can't imagine driving a car that was designed based on the collective recommendations of a bunch of wanna-be sketchers. The fact that the E60 is causing such an uproar with BMW traditionalists upon its debut will, I suspect, be what we look back upon as the first sign that this car was destined for great things. It breaks the mold and I love it.

    Couldn't help but notice that the Edmunds reviewers appear to have been pandering to the crowd (in here) with their shots at the iDrive. I still don't get the criticism. I learned how to use it in the first 15 minutes. And this naive argument -- that it's too difficult to change radio stations and operate the air conditioning with the dial -- is a straw man. I programmed the preset stations for AM & FM and the automatic settings for the climate control ... and that's it. From then on I've used the steering wheel buttons to change stations and the dash controls to adjust temperature and other climate-related features. Those "star" and "diamond" buttons that leave the Edmunds reviewers perplexed? They're programmed to do whatever the hell you want them to do. I now know why these guys have jobs reviewing cars -- they can't figure out how to do anything else. The only reason I get into iDrive now is every couple weeks when I reset the tire pressure monitor after I put air in the tires.

    And this bit about the E60 not having any power? That doesn't hold water. It's got the same engine as the E39, but it's lighter and better-balanced. I never saw Edmunds complain about the E39's pick up. I've driven both and it's not even close: the E60 blows the E39 away.

    I have no idea what they're complaining about on the interior door pulls. They must have short arms. Plus, the ergonomics are better with the front positioned pulls. They leave a nice resting place for your left forearm; something that's unavailable with conventional interior pulls centered on the door -- because it breaks up what would otherwise be a continuous, linear space.

    My one complaint about the E60 is the electronics. They seem to be a little hinky. I'm guessing it's just the typical first-year kinks.

    Ultimately, I can tell you one thing for certain: not once when I've pulled up next to an Infiniti, Lexus, MB or E39 have I yet thought to myself "gee, wish I'd gotten that one instead."
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,395
    Maybe the CPO people at BMW got together with the BMWFS people and purposefully botched the design of the E60:) Think about it.

    Many leasing companies have been taking a bath as far as residual values go in the past few years. The E60 is designed and when BMWFS calls you to see if you want to buy out your lease, they won't negotiate. You say no and BMWFS says, "fine then enjoy an E60 if you want another BMW...HA HA HA <insert evil laugh here>.

    Now let's say you decline to buy out your lease. The CPO circut is now full of E39 5ers which are now considered "hot commodities" and fetching top dollar. CPO sales rise. CPO dealers make more money off the CPO cars.

    NOw I need to get some sleep:)-

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Hmmm, design by committee; nope, I have always preferred a single design genius executing the overall plan as opposed to a camel with three humps. ;-) Regarding iDrive, I haven't ever used it and as such, I've never bashed it, or for that matter, commented on it with anything other than a neutral "wait and see" attitude.

    Regarding the E60 "blowing away" the E39, well, we are going to have to disagree there I'm afraid. According to BMW, the weight difference is only 33 pounds, which works out to less than one percent (0.953% to be exact). Now, if you can tell me that a couple of bags of groceries are going to make enough of a difference for one car to blow away another, then I'm afraid we have different definitions of the phrase.

    Objectively speaking, BMW has the E60 530i 6-Speed rated at 6.6 seconds to 60, which is, if I'm not mistaken, the same rating as (or even a little slower than) what they gave the E39 530i 5-Speed. Once again, ain't no way the E60 is blowing anything away there.

    Regarding pulling up next to other cars, every time I see an E60 I have to restrain myself from patting myself on the back in congratulations for getting the E39 before they were gone forever (new ones that is). ;-)

    Best Regards,
  • I have 225/55 HR 16 on my E39 with SP. Can someone tell me what the recommended tire pressure is? Based on the manual it should be 33/41 (f/r) which seem to be high to me.

    Also, what is it for the standard summer 17" rims?
    Thanks is advance
  • twoof1twoof1 Posts: 308
    In regards to your comment:
    "I think (refering to the G35)its a valid competitor of the 3 series, but the 5 series... I don't think so."

    The facts may surprise you:
    __________________________5 Series_________G35
    Horsepower_______________225 @ 4,900rpm____260 @ 6,000rpm
    Torque (lb-ft)_____________214 @ 3,500rpm____260 @ 4,800rpm
    Weight(Auto)_____________3,483lbs._________3,336 lbs.
    Front Headroom___________37.70_____________40.10
    Rear Headroom____________37.90_____________37.90
    Front Legroom____________41.5______________43.60
    Rear Legroom_____________36.00_____________34.60
    Front Shoulder___________57.30_____________56.40
    Rear Shoulder____________57.20_____________55.50
    Passenger Volume (cu ft)__99.10_____________112.80
    Cargo Volume (cu ft)_____14.00_____________14.80

    So you can see that the G35 actually compares more favorably to the 5 series than the 3 series. (Data source MSN auto)
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,237
    going to crucify (sorry, it's topical) you on that rear legroom thing . . . to say nothing of (as if) the shoulder room situation.

    The reality is that most of the people who buy cars in this class (or cars which aspire to be) drive them alone 90+% of the time. These are not family cruisers.

    However, when it's necessary to take more than one business associate (or the wife & kids) somewhere, it's a good thing (sorry for yet another topical reference) if it's easy to do.

    I prowl every board that discusses any manual-transmission-having, excellent-handling, good-audio-system-possessing transportation device that I can buy when my current ride expires.

    This one is the benchmark, but the G35 wins the "if my car were totalled tomorrow, what would you buy with the settlement cheque" award.

    It's pleasant to have such choices.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "So you can see that the G35 actually compares more favorably to the 5 series than the 3 series. (Data source MSN auto)"

    Doesn't it all depend on your criteria. When you cross-shop you can:

    1. do it by price
    2. do it by segment
    3. do it by performance objective
    4. do it by interior volume.

    A one carat ruby also compares to a one carat diamond, but I'd rather have the diamond.
  • twoof1twoof1 Posts: 308
    the "Mine is bigger than yours" game. Nobody wins. I have been posting on this board since 1998, I don't troll.

    The intent of my post was to clarify the fact that contrary to a previous post, the G35 does in fact compare better to the 5 series than any other car in the BMW line up.

    You are absolutely right. I would also add value to the criteria list. I guess it just depends on what your perception of a diamond is.

    As cdnpinhead said "It's pleasant to have such choices."
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