BMW 5-Series Sedans

nyccarguy

congrats once again on your new 530i

colt007

The dealer was great also. No hidden fees or anything at the end. A few little marks on the car, maybe from the plastic they cover it with. Service came out & buffed them out. What a car! Wife drove to her Mom's in Queens & you couldn't wipe that grin off her face!

Colt.

multiplechoice

I had a question for you. Is there a specific number of days, after I take delivery that I have to wait before I can ship the vehicle back to the states? I would like to ship it the day after I take delivery?

Thanks

chrism123

I did not order the Sport Package for my 02 530ia. Perhaps I made a mistake but now I'm wondering if I should add aftermarket suspension components (springs, shocks & sway-bars). Does anybody have any experience in this area? If so, is the gain minimal vs. the $$$ spent or a good investment for performance. How much of the ‘driving’ experience am I missing?

When I was selecting the options for my car I asked the dealer about the Sport Pkg. He said that it wasn't necessary. For the stock suspension was good enough and that I wouldn't notice any difference unless I took it to the track. It was hard for me to argue his point, as they didn't have any sport models on the lot for me to evaluate. Also I checked two other dealers and found only 1 sport model. That particular one was sold and therefore I could not take it for a test drive.

Regards,
Chris

snagiel

You should've talked to us first!

Look, there's two answers here. One, I could tell you the dealer's partially correct. The standard suspension setup is excellent (already better than most sedans), and in fact may even be preferrable if you do a lot of highway cruising or drive very serenely (in which case I'd recommend a Lexus or Mercedes anyway).

The other answer, and I'm sorry if this brings on some buyer's remorse, is that the dealer lied to you because he wanted to clear his inventory. "You'll only feel the difference on the track" is complete nonsense...you can feel it anywhere. Auto journalists have unanimously praised the sport packages on BMWs--especially on the 5 series--as an amazingly well-balanced high-performance suspension setup, and I completely agree. It's what makes a BMW a BMW. It manages to give you more grip, control, and precision over the car (versus the standard setup) yet is only marginally more harsh. And it's not just the suspension; the sport package includes better seats and steering wheel, which truly round out the performance feel.

Some good news, though: There are a number of aftermarket suspension retailers, which can offer anywhere from similar to much higher performance calibration than the Sport Package setup. You should peruse the boards at bimmer.org for options and opinions.

colt007

snagiel says it best. I only tested a non sport 530i but knew I wanted the sport package. You can definitely get some great aftermarket upgrades for the 2300 sport package price.

Colt

zuba

I believe I am zeroing in on the ideal car for me, for the right price anyway! 2000 528 loaded with Sport Package and a manual. I am trying to convince myself I will continue to enjoy the manual in a year or so. The test drive was awesome! So my question is: where can I go on-line to get exact invoice pricing for this 2000 model. I would like to know the dealers invoice price for obvious reasons, as I believe their current price to be high. Shipo - thanks for the help!

nyccarguy

Is the car used (Certified Pre-Owned)?

shipo

You can take delivery, drive across town, and drop the car off 5 minutes after taking delivery, take a cab to the airport, and be gone the same day you arrived if that is your choice. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

nyccarguy

you probably won't be able to find invoice pricing on a 2000 528i. You can find out what its trade in value is here on Edmunds.

riez

zuba... Aren't you talkin' 'bout buyin' a used CPO 2000 528i? You're not talkin' about a new one that has sat unsold on the dealer's lot for two years? You can find out what the original MSRP and invoice off that was. But that has no relationship to what that used car cost the dealer when he got it back from the original buyer or leasee. Remember, dealers make more money off used cars than new cars. You can't special order a "new" used car. You have to take what you can find and you can rarely find the identical car in two local dealers' lots.

Check out various used car pricing guides. Focus on those in your area. But be willing to get the car some distance away if it is exactly what you want at the right price. Negotiate hard on used car prices and their financing. Everything is negotiable!

zuba

The car has 17,000 miles on it, is CPO, Sport Package, PP, manual, xenon, no cd-player, rear shade, moonroof, and the "special price" is $37,500. Silver w/leather and in great condition. The web side now has the car at $39,900 as the mistake was noticed on my test drive!! I would never pay 39K for the car!! They are selling for $1500-2000 above TMV!! Their response is that no-one buys a car from Edmunds and Edmunds does not sell vehicles. Typical response!! Since they quoted me 37,500, for me they will honor that price - NO KIDDING! May have had them on the ropes yesterday as it was months end - but I can wait a week or so!! 2000 manuals are very hard to come by, so they may have this car for awhile, unless the right buyer appears!!

pap5

I hope I can get some input from board members to help me decide if I have a problem with my car or my expectations. In full auto mode, acceleration in my '01 530iA with 7,000 miles seems rubbery, non-linear. This is true mainly at moderate throttle openings - the engine/slushbox combo seems to want a heavy foot, but that isn't always possible. It is also noticeable when getting back on the power after making a turn - nothing, then a sudden kick, almost like turning on a switch. It doesn't matter whether the trans is in econ or sport mode. Curiously, it doesn't happen in "manual" mode - acceleration seems more linear, like there's more of a mechanical connection to the rear wheels. Since tapping the lever fore and aft is nowhere near as satisfying as shifting a real stick, however, I'd just as soon leave the trans in full auto.

Yes, I know I could have avoided this if I had gotten the car with stick, and that was my preference. But that's where my wife finally drew the line. Since I persuaded her to my position on everything else about the car, including buying it in the first place, I didn't feel I could push further.

None of the other cars with auto we have owned recently have acted this way. I hate to say it, but it's diminishing my enjoyment of an otherwise magnificent auto. I need to know if a) I have a service issue for the dealer, b) this is the way they all are, so shut up and live with it, or c) I'm just getting too fussy in my old age.

musafir

musafir

Thanks for your response on power of attorney

g525

Zuba: There actually is such a thing as dealer's invoice price on a used car. Its the price they paid for the car from the previous owner, whether a private party trading it in or the bank it was leased through.

However, dealers will hardly ever, ever, let you see this price. As a former car salesman, I got to see all the used car invoices for "how much we were 'in' the car for" in order to calculate how much profit I could make selling it. (although some looked altered!)

Its funny b/c even for 2 used cars with the similar mileage, condition, year, etc.., the invoice car vary by 1-3 thousand, depending on how cheap we got it from the previous owner.

All that said, was for the record, b/c Edmunds used prices are probably the best you'll get.

zuba

I agree, the dealer is telling me the car came from a BMW exec, not sure what that means pertainng to what he paid for it! He also has changed the price, and moved it up over $2,000, but of course will offer it to me at the advertised price of $37,500. My concern is paying 2k over TMW for the car. Additionally, we now have 8 inches of snow on the ground, so no one will likely be buying a Sport package car today, let alone test driving one! He tells me he has $36,800 "in the car"!

shipo

If that dealership paid $36,800 for a 2000 528i, they are a bunch of fools, which I assure you, they are not. Hence, they are NOT into that car for $36,800, few things in life are certain, that my friend, may well be one of them.

Best Regards,
Shipo

chesdin2

Adding to what g525 says, above: A good way to check what a dealer SHOULD have paid for the car is to look at the "Black Book" value. That is the wholesale-price counterpart to the "Blue Book", which purports to have retail prices. Your bank or public library may have one. They come out monthly, I think. Make sure you get a RECENT one, since prices steadily depreciate, especially on newer cars.

I used to work in the industry also (CarMax) and Black Book is a better guide as to what the dealer would have to pay. Believe me, that's the book they pull out as a starting point when they appraise your trade.

Another thing you could do is to use any web site's trade-in value estimator (does Edmunds have one?). It gives a closer view to wholesale pricing. Now, the dealer will typically legitimately put at least a few hundred dollars into reconditioning/ detailing (not much more than that on a "young" used car since it would still be under warranty), so you have to add that to the wholesale cost. Then comes profit, you decide what's fair. $1000, maybe $1500? That result will get you to a "fair" price.

Of course, at the end of the day, he's going to charge what he thinks the market will bear!

riez

zuba... How far out have you expanded your search in regard to locating other CPO vehicles that meet your desires? Have you used BMW NA's web site's CPO locator? If not, you should. Then contact dealers and start negotiating. You can try to play them off each other. None of them wants to lose a serious potential buyer.

Only the dealer's business manager knows what that used cost them. But same person also knows it costs them every day it sits on their lot unsold. They have an incentive to move it. Don't want to lose sales. Winter can be a great time to negotiate on RWD sport sedans as demand is down. Just as supply and demand influences trade-in prices, so, too, does it impact used car selling prices. Dealer doesn't want that car sitting on his lot till May.

sanand5

I have noticed the same thing with my '01 530i Step. This is a noticeable difference from my '98 328i, however that car had a non-Step auto box. I have been assuming that the Steptronic transmission is the cause of the slower shifts and delays in acceleration.

Dinan makes a "performance transmission software" that may decrease shift times but I haven't been able to get any feedback on this board regarding how good it is.

habitat1

Don't take this the wrong way, but I hope you, or your friends and family, and others like you are in the market for used 5-series in the future (i.e. when I am on the "selling" side)!!

I had priced out a brand new 2002 530i 5-speed sport package, premium package, xenon and premium sound for just under $42k through European Delivery in November (i.e. $1,500 over ED invoice). I find it very curious as to why anyone who knows that such a deal is possible would be willing to pay $37k (or even $32k) for a 2 year old 528i. Isn't a brand new 530i ordered to your exact specs, with full maintenance and warranty plan and a noticably more powerful engine worth at least $5k to $10k more than a used 528i??

Enlighten me as to what I am missing here.

zuba

Actually you are correct! My two concerns are this: 1. I like the CPO because I drive 25-30,000 miles per yr so I want the car under warranty in two yrs, and 2. The ED program sounds good, and yes I need to learn more about it, but am not sure I am willing to travel to Germany myself for the deal. Any takers want to go for me? I guess I need to research not the savings with ED, but the actual steps to do it! For 42K - and brand new, I would strongly consider the ED!! Is there a website out there that details the ED program step by step!! Otherwise a guy from the midwest will be drving on the wrong side of the road in Munich, in the wrong neighborhood, and my three kids may never see me again!

chesdin2

I've posted here probably a half-dozen times on ED. You will thoroughly enjoy it. Plan a trip to Germany around it. I had never been out of this country until I was 35 (OK, except for Canada). Germany was the first place I visited.

It's a great place... and you will love having your 5 series on the autobahn! There are no speed limits; no cops. Just THINK about that combination for a moment!

(Actually, one time I was blasting along and came upon a patrol car... I couldn't help myself. I slowed down, crawled past him, got around a blind curve and floored it again...! He was probably thinking "Tourist".)

P.S. I'm a guy from the Midwest, also.

cmr530i

You might want to try this method to get the price you want on your new car without having to travel to Germany. Go to autobytel.com and plug in what you want. Compare the price they quote you with other dealer quotes you get over the phone. Then like riez said in post #2520, play them off each other until you get what you want. I did this with great success in SoCal where the market was tight with little wiggle room. Autobytel gave me a good quote(below Edmunds TMV) and then I used that figure as my starting point to work down. I found two other dealers that went lower than Autobytel and went with one of them. I paid $43K for my 530 with Premium/Sport pkg, Xenons, rear sunshades, in dash CD. That's about $1000 more than habitat1 did in post #2522 and I didn't have to travel anywhere. I figure I would have had to put out more $ just to make the trip.(not that I don't like traveling, but I just wanted my car and I can only vacation in the summer months due to work schedule.) Good luck with your search. Getting the best deal is challenging but very rewarding!

sanand5

I finally got some feedback regarding the Dinan automatic transmission software download. The guy who installed it has it on his website as a video clip. http://members.cox.net/dinan540i/

You can find the vids in his "Specs" section. He states he noted an immediate difference in shift times.

g525

I just can't see the point of used BMW's? Especially the current generation 528s. (no offense)

They still want you to pay close to new prices. And, they look, excuse me, dated. The front lights look terrible compared to the new angel eyes and xenons. The grilles, rear lights, and color-keyed side moldings have also been updated to the new century. Its a beautiful car.

I bought a new 525 manual with sport-premium package and xenons for $38,000.

Even with your mileage issue you can probably buy this car and not have to lease (which most people, incl. myself do with new Bimmers).

I've never driven a 528 but i hear its not the same rush as a 530, so I bet you would be just as happy with a 525 manual.

The 525 is less than a 10hp difference than the old 528. It still feels fast although it probably lacks some of the feel of the more torquier 528. (but, you'd have to decide). Once your in 2nd gear, you'll swear it can run with anything. The car is fast, feels substantial yet light, and comes with everything you'd get in a new 530/540 similarly equipped, but it'll save you some money.

And, I'm with you, I'd rather not have to go to Germany just to buy a car.

If your in Southern California, I recommend Long Beach BMW, no pressure, let you test drive as many cars as you want, and have a big inventory.

I went in looking at a new 325 and drove the 525 in manual and knew it was a car worth every penny that I couldn't pass it up. I looks evry bit as aggressive as the other models, has the same suspension, and looks identical inside and out, except for its own wheel design and those two numbers after the 5.

Don't believe the hype about it being underpowered, most people are unfamiliar with the newest 5-series.

Test Drive one and let me know what you think.

habitat1

Start by checking out www.eurobuyers.com. It is the only place I know of that you can get actual invoice prices for ED. They also have some information on how the program works. BMW also had a European Delivery description on their website, but it's been a while since I looked at it and don't have the url handy. I'm sure a Yahoo search of BMW European Delivery will produce some more info for you.

The big issue is not getting there, picking up the car and dropping it off. That can easily be done as a 1 day trip or a 2 week family vacation (I know somebody who drove the car about 6 miles, and then went on with the rest of his business trip). It does, however, need to be picked up by you (i.e. registered owner) per BMW regulations. I'd love to go for you, but now is not the best time to try forged ID's for international travel!

The biggest issue with European Delivery is that the car needs to be ordered and paid for or financed a couple of months in advance of pick up and then there is a 3-4 week lag time between when you drop it off in Europe and get it delivered back at your dealership here in the states. For those that can't plan ahead or need a car immediately, ED won't work. For those that can, it can save big bucks and be fun too. I used to work for Marriott and know a lot of execs that went the ED route without a hitch.

The key to saving the big bucks is to find a dealer willing to sell you the car for $1,500 +/- over ED invoice. The ED list price is about a $2,900 off US list. Not bad, but not great. The 530i I priced at $1,500 over ED invoice worked out to nearly $6,000 below US MSRP and $1,400 under US invoice. There is no way you could ever come close to that price from any US dealer on a new US delivered car.

Depending upon where in the midwest you are form, I would recommend my hometown dealership in northwest PA. They don't sell that many cars and are pleased to get another sale that doesn't reduce their allocation.

Good luck. Keep us posted.

christophers1

What a CAR!

But now I am worried about keeping it clean. Anyone have a way to keep the carpet clean perhaps a better floor mat for the 530. Also what kind of things do the do-it-yourselfers wash and wax with?

mcq7159

I'm about six weeks away from delivery of my ordered-to-spec 530 5-speed. Having lurked here for a couple of months, I think my price for premium package, cold weather and xenons of $42,900 is pretty good. Two other area dealers elected not to match the price.

Now my dealer has started teasing me with other optional add-ons, specifically "Protection Plus" and LoJack.

Is Protection Plus -- paint sealant, leather conditioner, upholstery protector -- a BMW product? Or something offered by every dealer for every car? [Yes, it's been a while since I've bought a new one!] I'm tempted if the $695 now will produce measurable benefits five, seven, even ten years down the road, especially since I won't and don't have time to hand wash my new baby every week. Or am I being taken for a ride?

Also, does LoJack work in very rural areas? We have spotty (at best) cell phone coverage where I live in northwestern Connecticut so I wonder (God forbid) if I had to ask the police to turn on the transmitter, would the radio signals reach this backcountry?

Any other surprise "gotchas" coming my way during delivery? My service advisor assures me -- and the sales contract stipulates -- only tax, title and registration.

Thanks for advice and ideas ...

shipo

What was it that Ron and Nancy used to say? Ah, yes, "Just say No!"

Best Regards,
Shipo

snagiel

There are aftermarket rubber floormats available for winter use, which don't stain like the carpeted factory ones do. But they're ugly to begin with, so it's your call. Look at http://www.bavarianautosport.com/ for some choices.

As for car cleaning care, check out http://www.carcareonline.com. Good selection of products and great advice about what's good and not so good, as well as easy articles about how to clean everything.

snagiel

I concur with Shipo. It's a complete waste of money, and in fact may actually undermine the standard protection.

As for LoJack, you should probably contact them with this question.

carnaught

....I concur with the other posts about the dealer add-ons being unnecessary. The protection packages are just outright bogus and I understand that LoJack may not work in some states.

riez

mcq7149... Shipo is right. Just say NO! Avoid dealer's spiffs. There is a huge profit margin built in for them. And most of the "protection packages" are a complete waste of money!

blueskies

Hello -- this is my first post to this group, though I've been reading your posts and appreciate all the good information.

I'm looking at a 525 automatic. I've never owned a BMW before. I was, of course, very impressed with the car's handling and steering response on my test drive. The 2.5 engine seems okay to me -- had plently of pep, even for expressway merging.

I've seen some posts about a high-pitched fan noise maybe being a problem. Pardon me if this has been answered, but do any current 2002 525 owners consider this a problem?

I've noticed that the total interior volume on this car is slightly less than some others I've been looking at (Maxima, 300M, Camry), but BMW seems to make good use of the space they have. In other words, passengers seem to have enough individual room, even though the overall cabin is not as big as some. Has this been something that you current owners have had second thoughts about?

Finally, my dealer has one in the Kalahari Beige exterior color, which I had not seen before. If you haven't seen it, it's a richer beige than most other cars and very appealing, at least to me. I was looking at the Oxford Green and/or Steel Blue, but may have changed my mind.

Thanks for any tips you current 525 owners can give me.

cmr530i

I have been hand washing my 530 with BMW car shampoo and then waxing with BMW car wax. The wax is a great smelling liquid that is smoothly applied with a soft cloth and easy to wipe off (which I appreciate since I have a shoulder problem). I have been buying these products at the service dept. of my local dealer.

mcq7159

To shipo, snagiel, carnaught and riez:

Thanks for the candid advice. I appreciate your experience and the chance to (soon be) part of this wonderful "community". Thanks but no thanks will be my gameplan.

To blueskies: take a look at Water Blue ... similar enough to Titanium Silver to be credible but different enough to be eye-catching in its own right.

Happy driving to all!

sjmurray2

Zuba, am I missing something? How did you pay just $38,000 for 525 with PP/Sport and zenons? Was this ED? If not, what dealer? I am trying to negotiate a good deal in Florida, but not too successful. Scott

zuba

Nope, the car I was referring to was and is (still for sale) a 2000 528, PP, SP, Xenon, Rear Shade, for 37,500! I believe thanks to the guys here that I am now shoping for a 2002 w/the same specs, possibly including a manual! My only concern is the 50K warranty, because I will most likely be out of warranty in two years. Maybe I'll keep the car and pay it off, or upgrade in two - three years, who knows!! Incidently, as you are in Fla, TomBushBMW at TomBushBMW.com has a 2001 530 PP (not a sport) with 13,000 miles on it, and CPO, for 39K!! Not sure where the dealer is in Fla, but they are there!!

dl7265

Just call your local Dept and see if they have the recivers. The company provies them to the Depts at no cost so a rual Dept may have just as much coverage and maybe a quicker response time as well.
Good luck

DL

john01

It has been little over 2 weeks since we picked up our 530i and we just came back from a 700 mile trip this weekend. Other than not being able to keep up with the traffic on the autobahn since it is still in break-in period, the car is great! (as you all know already)

I averaged about 60 mph, and as high as 100 mph and still got about 27 mpg. I was cruising around 80 to 85 most of the time, and the consumption is much better than I had expected. I also had a trunk full of American food-stuff from commissary.

Comfort seat is great and I did not have the usual lower back pain, butt falling asleep (I switched on the Active seat every hour so to make sure), and stiff shoulder problem. Granted, the seats are much better than my Integra, but it exceeded my expectation. I still wish I could have the lower thigh support on the sports seat, though.

The car is so quiet that it was refreshing to be able to listen to music and talk with my wife while cruising. This was all but impossible with the Integra, which turns at 4500 rpm at 80 mph. It is a great little car for city driving, but absolute pain on a high speed cruising. There is just enough growl from the engine on the 530 to remind you of its potential, and the car accelerates effortlessly in the 5th. The engine is so flexible, I am not sure if I can ever go back to a 4 cyl. engines. As for the stereo system, even with the DSP, the bass was still pretty weak. I do not want window rattling thumps, but just a bit more would have been nice.

The suspension system is unbelievable. I have to give credit to BMW engineers. For a sizable car, it is very tight, but smooth and soaks up the bumps very well. With the 16 inch snow tires with higher aspect ratio, it feels tiny bit softer now. If I had come from a car with a softer suspension I may have thought it to be a bit stiff, but for me, it is just about prefect.

One gripe is that the car came with Continental Contisports, which seems to be quite unpopular with many owners. I just put on a set of snows at the dealer for about $865 (without 16% tax). It comes with the alloys that come standard on 530 nonsport and Dunlop Winter Sport M2 (H-rated). If there is a practical way of shipping for those of you who are doing the ED, it is a great deal. Apparently, BMW sells them as packages and they come mounted and balanced. I priced a similar set (Borbet type H alloys) on www.tirerack.com for about $1200 without shipping. If you have relatives or friends in the military, perhaps they can help out and ship them for you via USPS.

Oh, if you have a child, sun shade is a must. My wife says that was the best $500 she ever spent. Ok, it can be less expensive, but sure beats fumbling with a suction cup that keeps on falling down, or trying to cover up with a jacket.

cb44

john01,

The stock settings on the DSP system are very flat as been noted here in the past. Be sure and go to the EQ settings section and ensure the freq's are set in a "U" shape (higher bass, middle lower and higher highs). This can also be changed by setting the standard bass/treble settings to meet your needs. Also, the reverb may be set too high on the stock setting so lower that as needed. You can save different settings for radio. CD, etc. With proper settings, the DSP system can sound more worth the hefty $1,200 investment.

john01

Thanks, I may need to tune it again. I had already played with it a bit, but I was still left wishing a bit.

bocata

I posted a few times just before I saw your post on Feb. 19 about your deal and referral to Park Ave. I tried the dealers in Central NJ but was nearly escorted out after asking for a sizeable discount off ED on Presidents Day. Your post and referral to Mike Weber was just what was needed, and I called the next day.

I ordered an ED 530 with 5-speed, PP, Xenon, rear airbags, and rear shade in blue water/black. $1500 over invoice, although there was a $200 advertising fee, which I thought was not required on ED. With the deal I was getting, I questioned it once and let it go.

I take delivery June 24 and am planning to take the wife and 2 kids to Munich, Vienna, and Paris and points in between.

I was on travel and rather busy so I couldn't post earlier. Thanks, again.

-Bob D.
(To others: see posts on Feb. 21/22 about the unknown referral.)

multiplechoice

To cmr5301,

If you can post the name of the dealership (and salesperson) that you got your price, I would like to get a price quote from them.

Thanks.

multiplechoice

To bocata,

Is there a reason for the long period till anticipated delivery of your ED530i?

Thanks

shipo

Congratulations on your new ride, it sounds like a gorgeous car. I have never seen the "Blue Water" paint, however, the picture on the BMW USA site looks good. Hmmm, you ordered a 5-Speed as well, could it be that there is a mini-renaissance going on right now with the manual tranny?

Best Regards,
Shipo

nyccarguy

If only there were a way for the manual transmission to become "trendy" so people would start to gobble them up the way they've taken to SUVs!

shipo

"If only there were a way for the manual transmission to become "trendy" so people would start to gobble them up the way they've taken to SUVs!"

That's easy, make them an "Extra Cost Option". I submit that the "Keep up with the Jonses" mentality here in the USofA would make the Manual Gearbox more popular. I mean, after all, folks couldn't say, "I have a fully loaded (insert your favorite car)", unless they opted for the Shift It Yourself feature. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo