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BMW 5-Series Sedans

194959799100414

Comments

  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    It sounds like a clean car, given that there is still a considerable amount of life left in the factory warranty, I might be inclined to jump on this car, it sounds like a very nice deal.

    As for checking its history, it sounds like you have already found out all there is to discover.

    Good Luck.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,663
    I don't want to start a new vs. used car debate, but is there any reason you're going to plunk down $47,000 on a used car? I mean granted, it is a good buy (and you're smart to buy after that first year initial depreciation hit) and the car isn't a CPO car, but is still covered under BMW factory warranty up until 4 years/50,000 miles & includes free maintenance up to 3 years/36,000 miles. But for your hard earned money, wouldn't you rather have a brand new, fully loaded 530iA? I'm just curious.

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  • boxsterboxster Posts: 28
    sometime I'm asking the question to myself, too. :)
    first of all, I like 540, and it's almost the only car I'd like to buy for BMW.
    secondly, for a brand new 540ia w/ sports, the total cost is at least $10K more.
    also, I like that color, which is not offered on brand new anymore.

    Here is my story, at the beginnng, I planed to buy a used 540ia under $30K. but after shopping for a while, I found I can only end up w/ a 97-98 model w/ at least 60k miles, no warrant no CPO. then I moved up a bit, and I really liked the sports packge on 99 model, the M wheel and steptronic. so the price is going up to $40K if the mileage in under 40k and if CPOed.
    finally I found this car, almost new condition, loaded w/ everything except nav, and I really like the color. it's rare.
    I know it sounds stupid to pay $50K for a used car, but I just can't help it.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,663
    Just curious, what color? And it is your money, so do whatever the $#&% you want with it! Enjoy the car. Sounds like a good deal to me!

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  • boxsterboxster Posts: 28
    Thank you.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,663
    On a 540 huh? Sounds alright to me. Electric Red is the color I plan on getting my 325Ci in when I'm in the market for a new car this fall!

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  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Not to pick up where nyccarguy left off, but a new 540iA w/sport package can be had for roughly $50k, including the $1,300 gas guzzler tax if you go ED. That assumes you can get roughly $1,500 over ED invoice, which is what I was quoted last fall on a 2002 530i.

    Just wanted to add this "for the record" but the choice is clearly yours and I know ED is not for everybody.
  • snagielsnagiel Posts: 750
    It sounds like a fair deal, but I'm suspicious as to why it's not CPO'd. CPO is a good sales tool for dealers, and if such a new car wasn't CPO'd it MAY be because it was in a serious accident and is therefore ineligible for the program. Look into it. CarFax may be able to help.
  • bocatabocata Posts: 9
    I am booking hotels for a 16-night European trip, starting with 3 nights in Munich. Any recommendations on a hotel? A reasonably priced 3* would do. I get my 530 in late June, the start of the summer high season, so I want start working on this.

    BTW, there is a surprisingly high ratio of "signal to noise" (good info to dribble) on this board. Maybe I can contribute more after delivery.

    -Bob D.
  • chesdin4chesdin4 Posts: 22
    Bocata, I can't recall the name of the hotel we stayed at, but that's OK because it was only so-so. However, I would strongly advise you to stay somewhere within an easy walk to the "pedestrian zone" that's roughly in the center of the city.

    I don't know if you'll have picked up your car yet, but there is so much to do and you won't miss the car. It's kind of a "ball and chain" as in any big city. (We stayed in Munich at the end of our trip and had already dropped the car off.)

    BTW, you can work directly with the Munich location of EF Harms to drop your car off on a weekend if that suits you.

    Have fun!
  • boxsterboxster Posts: 28
    That's really tempting.
    Here is the invoice price I got from KBB:
    2002 BMW 540 iA
    invoice: 46750.00
    Destination Charge (I can skip that by ED, right?) 645.00
    Gas Guzzler • 540i 1300.00
    ZSP Sport Pkg. • 540i w/Auto Trans., 2550.00

    car + gas +ZSP, that would be around 50500 already, plus the $1500 over inovice according to you've said, so I can get it around $52000 before tax by ED?
    what extra do I have to pay for the ED? any imports fee or sth? I still have to pay local tax, don't I? :)
    also, I have to arrange the trip or they help me. last year I went there for a 2 weeks trip, which was great. But I'm sure what kind of trip I should have for ED.

    Thanks
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    boxster... Are you talking about buying it from a BMW dealer or not? If a BMW, then why isn't it CPO? You should ask them about making it CPO. I would only buy CPO from a BMW dealer. And I would be leery about buying any used BMW non-CPO if I planned to keep it for a long time and put a lot of miles on it. Some problems don't show up until after 4 years or 50,000 miles (e.g., some BMW automatics have a propensity to fail in the 80,000-120,000 mile range).

    On 12/1/01 my wife bought her '00 323iA from a BMW dealer. Initially they didn't mention CPO issue nor do I think they were going to. It was only after I specifically brought it up and said she'd only buy a used BMW from a BMW dealer that was CPO did the issue come up. They they agreed to make it CPO. I had them write it into the contract. Car had 18,000 miles on it. I clearly remember the salesperson and later the finance person (the real closer) ask why was that important. Told 'em I wanted the car under warranty for the additional 2 years and 50,000 miles of CPO coverage that was in addition to the original 4 year/50,000 mile bumper-to-bumper warranty. No CPO, no deal! They worked the deal.
  • boxsterboxster Posts: 28
    this 2001 540 is not from BMW dealers. it's from another dealer which sells a lot of import cars.
    They can't CPO the car. I checked the dealership, they are quite big one. I also checked the car carfax report, it's clean.
    actually I think I can only get this price for this car in non-BMW dealers w/o CPO, otherwise this car could cost same as new one.(trust me, I know the price of CPOed BMW in my area, they are quite expensive, and the BMW dealers are arrogant).
    It;s not CPOed, and still has 3 years on warranty. I don;t know how long I will keep it, maybe I will sell it then.
    CPO or not, BMW dealer or not, this is the most intriguing problem for me buying this car.
    sigh, nothing can be perfect :)
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    boxster... You won't know the real price of a CPO BMW unless you slog it out in some dealers' salesrooms! When I went looking for my CPO 540i6 I found about 8 within 600 mile radius. I contacted multiple dealers. I made them all offers. The dealer I ended up buying mine from dropped almost $1,000 off the BMW USA CPO locate website price in response to my first offer. Then we got down to brass tacks and my trade in. What do you have to lose, some time? Negotiate hard. Now is a soft market for used RWD luxury-performance cars!!!

    Are you paying cash? Financing thru the dealer? If you go BMW CPO, you can finance thru BMW FS. Buy or lease. Right now BMW FS offering 3.9 percent. Can you get that from your bank or credit union? Or thru the dealer?
  • bocatabocata Posts: 9
    From page 2 at http://www.eurobuyers.com/pricing/pricing20025.pdf you have:


    $43,330 540iA (ED Invoice)

    $02,550 ZSP

    $01,300 gas guzzler

    $00,xxx luxury tax (not sure how to get this)

    $00,645 destination (yes, it's required)

    $00,200 advertising (depends on area)

    $01,500 dealer markup (or whatever you negotiate)


    Total and add local taxes. Shipping, insurance in Europe, etc. are included.


    -Bob D.

  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    For 2002, the Luxury Tax is calculated as follows:

    (NegotiatedPrice - 38000) * .03

    In the case of the above car, it would be: $306.75 (assuming I keyed in the numbers correctly) ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • boxsterboxster Posts: 28
    wow, their invoice is really low.
  • boxsterboxster Posts: 28
    Hi, riez.

    I tried. I have been sitting in BMW sales office twice. one in Santa Clara, one in Berkerley.
    They don't give up much. they asked $43000 for a 99 540iA sports w/ 28K miles, and they just sticked on it. I can't believe that. Another one in Berkerley as I mentioned, $38000 for a 99 540iA sports w/ 43K.. I offered $37000, but they didn't accept it. both are CPOed
    sigh...
    I will pay cash, but that 3.9% for 48 months offer is really attractive.
  • boxsterboxster Posts: 28
    I'm not citizen yet, and I have to apply schengen visa.
    I applied last time I went there, not a big deal, but still a hassle.
    also, I'm kind of person who don't like to mix car purchase with a vacation trip. I feel like I have to think about the car pretty much while I can't fully enjoy the vacation. plus my family are a little concerned about flying over there under the current situation :0
    anyway, we'll consider ED, too. I'll try to bargin more for the red 540i in the mean time.
    driving a brand new bimmer on autobann is fun. last time I tried 200+ kmph in a Saab 9-5 there, but I still got my [non-permissible content removed] kicked by numerous Audi(IMO, they are the most aggressive cars on Autobann, over BMW and Porsche)
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,281
    1) Leases -- It's interesting that those who rent (lease) cars care about a rebate if they don't drive the contracted miles. It's a business deal, much like a medical savings plan in today's IRS world. If you guess wrong, you lose. Another option: you could actually buy the car.

    2) Reliability -- This is a huge one for me. I've learned to really enjoy European cars (especially Audi . . . sorry), but I haven't found anyone who will praise European reliability. What many do is denegrate vehicles that actually demonstrate reliability by referring to them as "appliances." Here's my put: reliability falls into three categories: a) Infant Mortality -- anything that packs up in the first year. In this price range, you'd like to think there won't be anything here -- I'm stunned by the number of owners of cars in this class who are pleased that their vehicle has managed to get through the first 8500 (or 1200, or 835) miles -- they seem to feel that a month without a visit to the dealer is a blessing. b) Warranty Range -- the folks who rent (lease) their cars survive here, and even those who buy are still pretty happy here (hey, the manufacturer pays). Help me understand how one values the time it takes to get the car to the dealer and put up with all that then ensues. Being one of the unwashed, I'm extremely intolerant of this. I just want my car to work -- the fact that the manufacturer pays is interesting, but doesn't help with the loaner and lost time. c) Exceeds Customer Expectations -- Here's where what I consider true reliability comes into being. If the car you bought (or rented) takes you to the dealer less often, costs you less over the long term, or just pleases you beyond what you thought it would, you're going to fall into this category. These are the Toyota or Datsun weenies who brag about a vehicle that's still running after 200K (or 400K) miles. I recognize that I'm one in 12,313 (always use prime numbers) visitors to this board who even understands (let alone appreciates) this concept. When my 1993 240Z ran happily to 225K miles (this was well before Toyota & Honda taught the unwashed masses to expect this), I was ready to write a testimonial (didn't, because I was lazy then, as now). The bar is higher these days (or maybe not, for cars "in this class"), but what if someone posted in praise of a RWD sports sedan with 250+ hp and a standard transmission that ran to 200K miles with only shock/tire/filer/oil-type of replacements? Think it'd compete? Maybe we'll get a chance to find out.

    3) Consumer Reports -- I bought a Lincoln LS partly because CS (isin't that an apropos acronym?) rated it highly. Moments (well, months, actually) later, they considered the LS unworthy (based on reliability. . .go figure). This stuff seems to happen regularly. I bought a Chrysler product in 1995 based on a similar CS recommendation. Anyone buying a $25 - 60K car based on CR recommendations is, to put it kindly, a naive individual. Buying trash bags based on CR data is possibly a good idea. Otherwise. . . Yeah, I'm a moron for listening to CS twice in a row. Please don't follow my example. . .even once.

    4) Colours -- The BMW "Electric Red" rocks. I've jabbed the Lincoln board to no end regarding the metalflake (easier to hide defects) colours. I may end up having my LS repainted with the BMW (or similar solid) colour. On another board, someone was asking what orange-peel was. Ignorance is bliss

    I mean no offense. Those on this board are aware (or should be) that the BMW is the standard. Others tilt at your windmill. Many of us choose to spend less. Bear with us.

    Your car rules.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    I would like to offer an observation on your post, which was well thought out. Most automobiles these days are extremely complex. Certainly much more complex than they were even a few years ago. It seems to me the more complex the auto the less likely it will be able to go the distance reliably, due to the number of computers, high temperature of the engine, complex emission systems and in general the number of interrelated subsystems. Can you point to any loaded modern day luxo-car, which after it starts turning 125,000 doesn't start to have major problems with vehicle subsystems? Most people don't keep their modern luxo-mobiles for the distance. While reliability of Lexus, Acura and Infinity (not to mention all other manufacturers) are great the first three years, what happens in the 8th year of ownership; to the auto climate control, to the power windows, to the electric seats, to the fancy radio with the cd, to the engine components, to the tranny, to the heated seats, sunroof or heated mirrors, to the body. Be it European, American or Japanese my guess is, with todays high revving, high tech cars it's not a matter of how much, it's a matter of when.

    PS My 1984 Toyota Celica went 12 years 85,000 miles and was never in the shop. That was the last car I could say that about. Of course the car by today's standard was far less complex. My 1990 Taurus Wagon went 6 years, the last two were expensive ones.

    One more thought it's not the distance that gets most cars, IMO, it's the age. A 4 year car driven 40,000 mi/yr will have in total less wear and tear than an 8 year car driven 20,000.
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    boxster... I used the BMW USA CPO locator and put in a rather large search radius. I ended up driving 590 miles one way to the dealer I worked the best deal out with. Did all my dealing, including the trade, by computer, fax, and telephone. You might consider widening your search area. Don't know how good you are at negotiating. I've bought a couple dozen new cars in the past 15 years. For myself and others. I love to buy cars. Find it fun and challenging. You, the buyer, are in the driver's seat. You control the sale. Negotiate hard. Play dealers off against each other. Do the dealers take you to be a serious buyer? Helps if they know you can and will buy a specific car they have today if you can agree on a price. Have they run a quick credit check on you? Or believe/know you can pay cash?
  • dl7265dl7265 Posts: 1,381
    I dont know but around here, your paying allmost new prices< and in case of ED> maybe more.

    Curtiss: I think you got the discount cause you plug the program even more than BMWNA ...;)

    DL
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    dl7265... I would love to see someone track all the time & paperwork and every single expense involved with going European Delivery. That includes all the time spent doing everything. And every single cost. If you have to buy a passport, any medical preparation, airfare, hotels, tolls/fees, meals, gifts, maps, tourist guides, etc. All the vacation-related costs. Down to the penny. By the time you add in all the time and expense, don't think you really end up saving anything. You get a car and a vacation, but you had to take a lot of time to do it and it delays when you can get your vehicle. So how much is that worth? Don't know, but don't think ED is something I'd want to do until I'm retired! Then I'd have the time and could work thru all the issues, big & small, and any hassles.

    Buying a used newish highly sophisticated BMW would scare me if it weren't under a decent warranty for some significant length of time/miles. Since I have yet to see a really good 3rd party extended warranty, I think the manufacturers' certified programs are the only way to go for true peace of mind.
  • snagielsnagiel Posts: 750
    I haven't gone through the process, which certainly seems to be more involved than traditional delivery through the dealership. But I don't understand your skepticism here. For a 540i6, the MSRP spread between regular delivery and ED is $3,775. Since ED cars do not come out of a dealer's inventory allotment, some may be willing to even further reduce their regular margins and cut a better deal. But regardless, if you want to get the best deal possible there's no question it's the way to go. You can--although I doubt many do--fly out to Munich (about $900 r/t from the East Coast), catch a cab to the delivery center (100DM=$45), sign the papers, and leave the car, take a cab back to the airport ($45), and fly back. All told, about $1000, while you're saving close to $4000.

    For most ED customers, though, I suspect they are interested in going to Europe anyway, so this offers them a great opportunity to do so (the car savings either pay for the trip or certainly subsidize it substantially), not to mention saving costs on rental cars while there.

    All those costs you list are costs people would face regardless on a trip; therefore, they can simply pick up the car and leave, if that's their only goal.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,663
    I'm hope to do ED partly for the savings, but also for the experience of exploring a continent which I have never been. I know this is the 5 series thread, but I plan on getting a 325Ci via ED in the fall. I'll be saving approximately $3500 off US MSRP (I believe you save over $5000 with the 5 series). I can get more options in the car than I would if I were taking US delivery. I'll also get to enjoy a vacation in Europe with my girlfriend (which we were planning on anyway). I'd rather drive my BMW around then take the EurRail & Tourbuses. For me, ED is more of a value thing.

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  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    I guess it all depends on your perspective.

    Givens:
    Airfare: Round trip EWR to MUC; I am paying $447.00 per person, plus a mandatory $12.38 for FedEX to deliver our tickets (SAS does not do E-Ticket) to my home. As for shopping for said tickets, it took a whopping hour and a half to do the research on the Internet AND buy the tickets.
    Food: We gotta eat, regardless of whether we are at home or on vacation.
    Lodging: Based upon the airline pricing, it seems that you need to spend at least two nights to get the best fares, many folks over on the 3-Series board have stayed at a very comfortable hotel called the Hotel Uhland (sp?) in Munich, which has nice (read, not the Ritz) rooms for about $60 (USD) per night.
    Paperwork: The 530i that I am picking up in Munich in about 3 weeks required two more signatures than my 1999 328i that I leased here in New Jersey, all in all, the paperwork in no different. Oh, and I will most likely have to sign a few more times in Munich.
    Documentation: Hmmm, well, at least in our case, we both have passports already, so, for us at lease, that is a non-issue. To go to Germany, there are no Visas, Medical Checks, International Licenses, or any other documentation to deal with.

    Single person, short trip ED delivery (using my car as a basis for savings):
    Price saved off US MSRP: $5,300.00
    Price of Airfare: $453.19
    Round Trip Airport Limo from Home to EWR: $65.00
    Rail Fare from MUC to BMW ED Center: $12.00 (according to those who have done it)
    Taxi Fare from E.H. Harms to Hotel Uhland: $25.00 (Approx.)
    Two nights at Hotel Uhland: $120.00
    Rail Fare from Hotel Uhland to MUC: $10.00
    Lost Month of usage Lease payment: $558.00

    Total cost of ED related items: $1,243.19
    Total savings using a minimal ED trip: $4,056.81

    Two Person, 8 days on the ground ED delivery:
    Price saved off US MSRP: $5,300.00
    Price of Airfare: $906.38
    Round Trip Airport Limo from Home to EWR: $130.00
    Rail Fare from MUC to BMW ED Center: $24.00
    Lodging for 6 nights: $600.00 (Figured WAY on the high side, just in case ;-))
    Taxi Fare from E.H. Harms to Hotel Uhland: $25.00 (Approx.)
    Last night at Hotel Uhland: $60.00
    Rail Fare from Hotel Uhland to MUC: $20.00
    Lost Month of usage Lease payment: $558.00

    Total cost of ED related items: $2,523.30
    Total savings using a minimal ED trip: $2,776.62

    Assuming that the best deal I could have done on a domestic purchase would have been $1,500 off MSRP, the &#147;Lone Wolf&#148; approach would still save $2,556.81 by doing ED. In the case where two folks take a short vacation (just like my wife and I are going to do), we would still save at least $1,276.62. Oh, and we get a FREE vacation in Paris, in the spring no less. ;-)

    In reality, we would have taken a trip to Paris anyway, and we would have probably rented a car while we were there. With that in mind, the only differences in costs to me will turn out to be the net difference between the cost of the weekly rental car in Europe (figure $275) and the &#147;Lost Month Payment&#148; while my car is on water. So, the way I look at it, I am saving more like $5,000 (off MSRP) by doing ED and more like $3,500 (assuming a $1,500 discount off MSRP) in real world savings.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,663
    Driving your BMW on the roads it was meant to be driven on: Priceless.

    I know its corny, but I just had to say it!

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  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    the "free" use of Shippo's extraordinary research analysis which would take anyone else at least a few hours to complete and document half as well.

    As several frinds and associates have indicated to me, one of the most difficult aspects of ED is the wait and anticipation. But hey, they feel the same way about our annual golf outing. At least with ED, they end up with a great car and don't lose too many balls in the process.

    Consider this, you don't save anything by going ED on a Mercedes, and Porsche actually charges you extra to take delivery at the factory. BMW is one of the few options for making it a unique event for yourself and your family and still saving significant dollars in the process.
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    shipo... Please do track all the time and money spent on total ED. Every last penny spent getting there, while there, and getting back. Most people seriously underestimate every last item when they do household budgeting. They overlook items. When going overseas you have currency issues. What if the dollar declines in value vis-a-vis the Euro between now and then? Now costs you more dollars.

    Costs me a heck of a lot less to eat and live over 3 or 4 days in my rural midwest town than some bigger European cities. Bet their cost of living indices a lot higher. :)

    Just my opinion, but a good negotiator living in an area with multiple BMW dealers within reasonable distance and one willing to negotiate hard and wait to get a good deal, can do pretty well off MSRP. Add up all the time, effort, and costs for ED, and I don't think the difference ends up being that great, either in total dollars or as a percentage of all the money spent on the car.
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