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Lexus LS 400/LS 430

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Comments

  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    There is some kind of a problem on that board in which discussions randomly archive themselves - and sometimes disappear altogether. Web Crossing is having a terrible time trying to solve it.

    The problem is confined to that board, though. So no worries here!

    Normally a discussion will auto-archive if no one has posted in it within 45 days. That seems highly unlikely here in the first place, but I have set this and many of the other popular discussions to "permanent" to keep them from archiving themselves.

    Happy holidays everyone!

    Pat
    Host
    Sedans Message Board
  • flint350flint350 Member Posts: 250
    Happy holidays to you! It's good to see we've behaved ourselves for quite a while and you haven't had to "spank" us or put coal in our stockings!

    Hope you guys have a safe and peaceful holiday.
  • jrdh23ajrdh23a Member Posts: 10
    I have finally given up on the Lexus phone and am having it removed next week. I bought a pro-fit bracket and a Motorola phone and will go with this. The dealership tried everything--3 different phones, new chips, new microphones, etc. but nothing helped. I called Lexus and told them to refund my money and it seems they are going along. I hope they are happy with Sprint and I hope they got a good signing bonus with Sprint for the exclusive contract because they are killing the goose that laid the golden egg. Love the car otherwise, but it will be my last one unless they get the phone straightened out.
  • ep99ep99 Member Posts: 2
    Hi,

    I have been dirving FWD and 4WD (RX300)since the 80s, and would never think about going back to RWD cars, I thought. Now I'm thinking about LS430, but the RWD really gives me doubts. Can any one help by describing your experience with LS400 or 430 in snow and icy weather? Especially how it compares to FWD and 4WD. Thanks a bundle.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Basically you will find that for wintertime driving north of the snowline that RWD is a much safer setup overall, over FWD. RWD does have its shortcomings, for accelerating FWD will act more like AWD.

    But.

    A RWD car allocates the lateral, steering stresses, to the front wheels, and longitudinal stresses to the rear, a nice even distribution of the overall need fro distributing the adhesion with the roadbed over the widest area available, ALL FOUR ROADBED CONTACT PATCHES.
  • rennyboschrennybosch Member Posts: 329
    It sounds to me like the only time RWD gives you an advantage if when you are accelerating while turning. The rest of the time you don't have both lateral and longitudinal stresses at the same time.

    Am I missing something?
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    First of all I'm talking about incidental or accidental loss of directional control, skiding, oversteering, under steering etc, not "boy racers" out intentionally breaking traction.

    Granted, you can unintentionally "push" a FWD further into the "unknown" on a slippery surface before it "breaks" vs a RWD.

    But now that the roadbed adhesion is (partially{?}) "broken", what do you do?

    If you have a clutch (most don't) then throw it in immediately. If you have a RWD then lifting the throttle will add engine braking, sorta like throwing an anchor out to the rear of the car. Slight engine braking and slight traction will help to "right" the direction of travel.

    If you have FWD can you quickly find that "sweet spot"? The throttle position that neither "drives" the front wheels nor "brakes" them.

    NO....? !! Oh, S$%&!

    Manuafacturer's of FWD vehicles have been trying to balance this equation ever since FWD became so prevalent in the marketplace.

    With their high torque, high HP, Northstar engine Cadilac absolutely had to do something to alleviate the loss of control problems created by undesired engine torque braking to the front wheels.

    So now they have an over-running clutch which allows the front wheels to over-run the engine RPM on throttle lift.

    My 2001 RX300 AWD, predominantly FWD, 70/30, automatically shifts the transmission into 4th gear on throttle lift.

    People with FWD & 4WD commonly get themselves into trouble by over-driving the vehicle, they forget that while "driving", it's okay to dedicate front tire traction patches to straight ahead traction. But once you push it a bit too far, or hit an unexpected bit of more slippery roadbed, you absolutely do not want driving traction or engine braking on the front wheels, you're likely going to soon need all of the available traction on the front wheels for recovery.

    I'va alway thought that the very best AWD would be one that decreases the engine "torque" coupling to the front wheels as they begin to "load up" with lateral stresses.

    In the absence of that the very best AWD is likely one with 30/70 front/rear torque bias.

    The only reason FWD even exists today is because it is so much more inexpensive to manufacture.

    Another ideal compromise configuration is the current AWD 911, rear engine, predominantly RWD, with additional engine torque allocated to the front if the rear wheels begin to slip.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Careful, careful - redacted profanity is no more acceptable than the real thing when it is obvious what has been masked and the term itself is unacceptable....

    Thanks.

    Pat
    Host
    Sedans Message Board
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    We have a separate discussion on this board titled FWD, RWD and AWD - I don't mean to say you cannot have this conversation right here, but some of you may be interested in reading what folks have said there, and may have some contributions. It is a subject that is of interest to lots of folks in the Town Hall.

    Pat
    Host
    Sedans Message Board
  • jeffmust2jeffmust2 Member Posts: 811
    "redacted" in a sentence.

    Now I'm set to go on Jeopardy.
  • anthonyp1anthonyp1 Member Posts: 27
    I was reading along, and just thinking how well wwest was describing the effects of tires and snow, when out of nowhere comes a message , maybe from heaven, scolding him for alleged profanity. Even in the old comic pages of the sunday paper there was that type of profanity. Now I have forgotten all the physics of wwest writing. Tony
  • fxashunfxashun Member Posts: 747
    If he had used %$#* it would have been different. From what I remember they only used symbols in the paper.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    fxashun is correct. I wasn't scolding, I was reminding folks what the Membership
    Agreement says - that's what I'm supposed to be doing here.

    Now let's move on, please.

    Pat
    Host
    Sedans Message Board
  • bcleepebcleepe Member Posts: 53
    I wasn't offended by the "redacted" but enjoyed the knowledge shared by wwest. Keep it coming, thanks!
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    My blonde neighbor lady (nice..) suggested I use white-out to redact my "foul" language but it seems to come up in a different place everytime I log on, my screen is getting really hard to read, now what do I do?

    To our very kind host:

    If you wish to completely redact that particular line in my post I for one will not be offended, I had my doubts about its appropreatness as I was typing it anyway.

    I can loan you my white-out, I have lots left.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    heh - yeah, white-out -- keep trying, maybe you'll eventually get it right! :-)

    Hosts cannot edit posts, only delete - the reality is that we are supposed to delete posts that don't fit with the MA, but I didn't want to come down that hard for that slight of a transgression.

    But gee whiz, I had no idea this would become the major topic of conversation for the next few days.

    So could we please just talk about something else so I don't have to regret my decision to remind rather than delete?

    Thanks, I sure would appreciate it.

    Happy New Year! :-)

    Pat
    Host
    Sedans Message Board
  • bcleepebcleepe Member Posts: 53
    Thanks Pat to keep us straight from time to time! This board keeps us interested not because of the "redact" but from the discussions with substance. Happy New Year!
  • anthonyp1anthonyp1 Member Posts: 27
    I wish you had really warned against dark colors. Mine is cherry(eggplant) and when clean is quite attractive, but after a rain, really spotty. You all might enjoy the radar control, I think it works off of a laser or something like that. It is the best new thing I have experienced in many many years. A subject befitting this board. Tony
  • bcleepebcleepe Member Posts: 53
    My wife insisted that we bought the package with the laser cruise control because she feels safer with it when I am driving. In any case, I love it. The only complaint is that it is not functioning when the wiper is on.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    I didn't really want the laser cruise control but here in the Seattle area it looks as if it would be useless anyway.

    Sorry anthony,

    I believe in equal opportunity for cars of all colors and nationalities.

    No, really, if I buy another LS it will be the Cherry color. It might look bad dirty, but it does look stunningly beautiful otherwise.

    What interior did you get? I'm holding out for the ivory.
  • anthonyp1anthonyp1 Member Posts: 27
    wwest= I guess I am in for a let down when it rains. At least I won`t be surprised, and think it failed. I got the black(analine) interior, and really like it. I was aprehensive, but it is not stark black, but a very dark color of gray(very dark) but nevertheless gray. It has a very soothing effect. The wood is burgandy color. I to wanted the light maple, but was glad things worked out the way they did. Again you(wwest) of all people, who really know your mechanics, would enjoy the radar control. I didn`t think anything about it when I was buying, but what a nice surprise when I used it in really heavy traffic. Just get in one of the slower lanes, usually about three over, and let it do it`s thing. Takes a lot of the guessing out of the more tedious parts of a trip. Tony
  • greasykid1greasykid1 Member Posts: 336
    Does anybody know if 17" wheels off an LS430 will fit on the GS430?
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    17" wheels off a 2000 GS300 fit my 92 LS just fine.
  • bcleepebcleepe Member Posts: 53
    I didn't mention that I like it too. It is much safer with it on. It slow down automatically when a car is cutting in too close in front or slowing down.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    I'm not really sure it would be usful for me.

    On the freeways I set the cruise control speed just a tad(!!??) above the legal limit, then I start playing this "game". I watch traffic, front, beside, behind, as closely as I can to prevent having to over-ride or disengage the cruise control.
  • lateralglateralg Member Posts: 929
    Me too.

    My game, when the road isn't clear of traffic, is to imagine a 3-4 second "rope" between me and the car ahead. I try to keep the rope from dragging on the pavement or becoming taut.

    Also, since my definition of a collision is when the distance between my car and another object becomes zero, I keep as much "air" around my car as is reasonable.

    I much prefer these games to zoning out on music or talk radio.
  • bcleepebcleepe Member Posts: 53
    I don't play games when I am driving but enjoy the relax environment that the laser cruise control provided with the high quality ML sound system.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Talk radio. Isn't that reserved for the religious right or the republican talk show hosts? I'm not sure the radio antenna has ever been extended on my 92 LS.

    I find I can play my "game" and listen to any good classical or boston pops CD at the same time.

    I find my time to Portland is a lot lower if I play my game and weave my way around the slower traffic rather than slowing down each and every time someone in front of me slows for some unknown reason or someone else cuts in front of me too close.
  • bcleepebcleepe Member Posts: 53
    The games don't have to stop even with the laser cruise control. It will give you extra protection while you can still playing games.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    I have failed my mind game if I'm not watching closely enough, or paying enough attention to surrounding traffic, that the laser would have to intervene.

    The whole idea is to drive in a way that allows me not to interfere with the cruise control. The Laser would be just another form of interferring.
  • bcleepebcleepe Member Posts: 53
    That is why it is an option to suit personal preference.
  • nofeernofeer Member Posts: 381
    Ihave some improvements to the ls
    redesign the cruise control--it should be always on and just a flick of thefinger, allow it to resume speed even after a stop--stop and go, and changing lights wears me out.

    AWD--it would then be perfect, have this as an option. my next car will be awd, or front drive with traction control, so i don't depend on others to get to work in the snow.
  • rennyboschrennybosch Member Posts: 329
    What model LS430 do you have? Mine is the Ultra-Lux (so I have the laser cruise control), and the cruise control does resume the previously set speed with just a flick of the finger even after a stop, so long as the engine isn't turned off.

    It seems really strange that Lexus would make a cruise control that doesn't do that -- although come to think of it, I believe I recall reading the User Manual and being surprised that they described it as you said. Could it be that they discovered that Americans would consider that as a bug, but they fixed it only in the Ultra-Lux?
  • lateralglateralg Member Posts: 929
    Willard,I agree completely that:

    "I have failed my mind game if I'm not watching closely enough, or paying enough attention to surrounding traffic, that the laser would have to intervene."

    I'm sure to catch heat for this, but I believe that two categories of people in the driver's seat are: "Drivers" and "Operators", and that they are transported in "Machines" and "Appliances". One person's machine is another's appliance.

    I also believe that they have equal rights to the road, and the manufacturers must strive to satisfy them both.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    I didn't mean to disparage laser cruise control at all, when I do get my next LS, if I ever do, it will likely include this option. But then I'll have to figure out a way to have an indication that the laser has intervened and I have lost the game.

    Machine vs appliance, which is which, between my 2001 AWD 911 w/PSM and my 2000 GS300 w/VSC, TRAC, etc?
  • lateralglateralg Member Posts: 929
    I believe it depends entirely on the how the owner/operator views the vehicle.

    I suspect that all of yours are machines.
  • trentpatrentpa Member Posts: 26
    I preface this post with the caveat that I indeed am an idiot when it comes to car maintenance, but here's my question. I took delivery of my 2001 LS430 in May 2001 and it had the 17" tires. It now has just over 12,000 miles on it. Last night, we got 6" of snow, and the roads this morning were generally OK, with a few bad spots. The car slipped a little on the residential roads, but nothing excessive. Should I be getting rid of my tires (with only 12,000 miles)? I seem to recall an earlier post saying that the life of the factory 17" tires was only 10,000 miles. Thanks for any advice.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Which will outlast the other? If you're in Atlanta this week your tires likely will, but if you're north of the (normal) snowline then toss the tires or get wintertime temps.

    Actually remaining tread depth should be the determining factor about your current tires and if you feel you might have to endure even more of the white stuff this winter a second set of tires, wintertime, with inexpensive wheels, would be a very good idea.
  • scottphillipscottphillip Member Posts: 249
    Debating on whether to trade my 2001 Audi A6 for a 2002 LS. I cannot decide between the NAV/LEV and an Ultra. Why don't the front seats massage too? Is the Lexus Link a service of Onstar?

    Thanks,
    Scott

    P.S. Available colors are white and platinum blue
  • trentpatrentpa Member Posts: 26
    I was in the same position, and opted for a NAV/LEV because couldn't justify the added cost of the Ultra, particularly since many of the benefits go to the back seat passengers. Last I heard, Lexus subcontracts the Lexus Link service with the same people that provide OnStar and it's a very similar, if not identical, service. Think the LS430 looks great in any color, but I'd vote for the blue because it's a new color for 2002.
  • stripedcatstripedcat Member Posts: 10
    In addition to the back seat conveniences, I like the powered sunshade for the rear window as well as the shades(manual) for the side windows. The UL has the rear ac unit , laser control and the Park Assist {I really like this feature). Also included is the Air suspension.

    If you do not like the back seat massagers etc., look into the CL {Custom Luxury Package} which is the Ultra minus the back seat convenience groups.
  • scottphillipscottphillip Member Posts: 249
    My favorite Ultra feature is the park assist. Are the dealerships stocking any Custom Luxury Package cars? I haven't seen any yet..

    Thanks for your input,
    Scott in FL
  • bcleepebcleepe Member Posts: 53
    I have the Customer Luxury package. The park assist is included together with laser cruise, ML sounds, rear window shade, rear seat heat, front seat AC and more. For $7K less than Ultra Luxury, it is even better than the NAG/LEV options.
  • acco20acco20 Member Posts: 211
    Bcleepe... If I read your post correctly it says you have the customer luxury package and it includes the Levinson sound system but NOT the nav.system. Is this correct? If so, do you have the nav. screen in the dash. Thanx... I am confused because every car I have seen with the Levinson sound has the nav. also. I await your reply..
  • bcleepebcleepe Member Posts: 53
    It is included and Lexus Link too.
  • acco20acco20 Member Posts: 211
    Bcleepe...Thank you for your response. Best of luck with your car. The LS430 is absolutely outstanding.
  • bcleepebcleepe Member Posts: 53
    You're welcome. We love it. For the price, it beats out BMW and MZB of comparable class, both in comfort and reliability. My brother and sisters own BMW and MZB are both considering LS430 for their next cars.
  • scottphillipscottphillip Member Posts: 249
    My Florida dealerships says that the Custom isn't available now. Perhaps they just want me to buy an Ultra, however, I've never seen a Custom on the lot.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    They're like the DVD update, arrival/avaibility keep getting moved further out.
  • agent0986agent0986 Member Posts: 64
    day after the 2/3 inch snow fall here in new york, took out the LS430 with the 17 inch summer tires...These tires were NOT meant for snow, and perform accordingly. The car was unable to make it up a trivial hill, and just rolled right back down, getting stuck at the bottom...also although the skid control does its best, the the car slips excessively even on straight pavement, creating a dangerous situation....i would strongly reccomend exchanging these during the winter for all season tires or leaving the car in the garage after a snow storm.

    also, should i be worried about road/rock salt damaging my car? this is not a lease car, and i plan on keeping it for a few years, and i do not want rust to develop after a few years. It is considerably covered with those elements right now, and plan no getting it washed as soon as the snow/ice melts completely..from now on, i plan on leaving it in the garage, before/after it snows.
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