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Toyota Camry 2006 and earlier

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  • Here is how Toyota will respond to the 03 Accord next year with the 04 Camry ( based on some reports )

    1) new 3.3 V6 bet. 225 & 240HP, 4 stays the same
    2) more audio options including MP3 player
    3) more standard features in both LE & XLE
    4) slight change to front & rear , perhaps like the Camry sold in some Asian countries, take a look at Toyota's Thailand website http://www.toyota.co.th/thai/showroom/camry/360_ext.asp exterior
    http://www.toyota.co.th/thai/showroom/camry/360_int.asp interior

    it looks like these designs are "tested" in those countries before coming here

    5) HID lights optional on XLE
    6) LED instruments ( opitron lighting like on most Lexus vehicles ) on the XLE

    the new engine is confirmed, everything else is questionable but a strong possibility.
  • I am willing to consider the 2003 Accord vs 2003 Camry, but the sticky point is that there is NOT even an option to choose side curtain airbag for all 2003 Accord except EX-V6 (standard equipment).

    It seems that Honda believes only "rich" people who can afford the most expensive deserve better protection. What a pitty.
  • I'm reading too many paint chip stories to feel comfortable about this car now.

    I drive anywhere from 45-60 miles each day, all city driving. If the paint is going to look bad that quickly, I'll avoid a new model.
  • I would think Toyota would save such drastic changes for 2005, but I guess not if the Accord eats into its sales.
  • Do these reports of changes to the '04 Camry (aside from the engine) come from a reputable source or are they just speculation and somebody's wish list?
  • 3.3 V6 engine - confirmed for 04 Camry

    More Audio options including MP3 & satellite radio - strong possibility based on the fact that the new Accord offers these options now ( speculation from industry source )

    minor changes to front/rear - based on Camrys available in Asia , normal response from Toyota to keep the Camry "fresh" / LED lighting also available now on Asian Camrys

    HID lights - pure speculation but Nissan already offers them on the Altima 3.5 ( for 1 year )

    Right now this "list" is partly a wish list created by industry sources & other people so Toyota may decide that there is no need to respond to the Accord ( with the exception of the new engine ), very unlikely as it may be

    God Bless the Victims & their families on this day of great sorrow & reflection from this native New Yorker who witnessed that horrible day in person.
  • fredvhfredvh Posts: 853
    Yes, September 11 was a horrible day for all of us who watched it on TV. It is something we will never forget. I can only imagine how horrible it must have been for you and others who were there. My sincere sympathy goes out to all the families and friends that lost loved ones. I pray that God will never let something this horrible ever happen again.
  • my2002 camry xle has a noise vibration in the passanger door area,has anyone have this problem and what is making that noise?
  • See Camry PROBLEMS section post number 989....I have the same problem and think I identified the problem...not sure what can be done.
  • venus537venus537 Posts: 1,443
    it's a pitty how the camry does in crash test results.
  • I am wondering how reliable/reproducible all the crash test results are.

    Anyone know if they have done tests to demonstrate that they can get the same result after crashing two identical vehciles?

    My concern is that since Camry and ES300 have very similar structure, is it possible that the poor result for Camry side impact is just one time deviation? Could it be a much better result if they crash test another one?

    Anyone in the science field knows that every experiement has its limitation and experiment results have a normal distribution profile, which means there will be outliers.

    Anyone can comment on this?
  • wmquanwmquan Posts: 1,817
    The Camry that NHTSA tested was not equipped with side airbags, while the ES300 had them. That alone can make some difference in the test. Though it is surprising that the difference is that much.

    Crash test results usually are reproducible, from what I understand. At worse you might see a one-star difference but that's debatable. E.g. the European offset frontal crash test results usually are quite similar in overall scores to the IIHS offset frontal crash test. I haven't sat down and compared the European (www.euroncap.com) side impact tests with the NHTSA's (and they have not tested a new-generation Camry yet, either).

    Eventually NHTSA will test a Camry with a side airbag, but we don't know when.
  • rutger3rutger3 Posts: 361
    I wish people would understand more about where cars are actually made before calling them 'foreign' cars. The Camry is built in the USA by US workers. It is sold by US Salespeople, serviced by US mechanics. Many of its parts come from US Manufacturers. A very small percentage of the price of a Camry ends up in Japan. Toyota employs thousands of Americans at it's factories,distribution centers,dealers, and US Corporate Headquarters. IMO, my Camry is an American car.
    Honda, like other Mfg's could care less about the safety of its buyer's, otherwise they would make side air bags standard across the line. It is absurd that a safety item is optional. Until they are forced to add these by the government or more people complain, they will not change. It is only from a sales viewpoint they decide not to add them as standard equipment. If they could remove front airbags, headrests, and crumple zones to lower the sticker price they would.
  • I missed soemthing...My 2002 Camry did not come standard with side air-bags nor did it come standard with anti-lock brakes...both saftey features. Are you saying the Honda does not even offer the side airbags?

    As for the American Camry...everything you say is true but an overlooked important fact is that it likely was DESIGNED over seas....where quality of components obviously demands a higher priority than American designs. Was it not Iococa once said something like 'Americans could care less if the door handle falls off...they want cheap cars'. I have no doubt we can construct anything here. We can design just as well as anywhere else too. Quite simply the American designs (IMO) are designed with a lower cost up front and higher maint. costs in the end. My guess is you likely spend the same amount on a 2002 Camry as you would a 2002 Taurus after 5 years. It's just that you pay more up front for your Camry and have less trips to the dealer for service. May be I'm wrong....
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Posts: 2,363
    ...as standard on all the EX cars for '03, and optional on LXs.

    Head [side curtain] bags are only available on the EX V6, but I would look for that to change in subsequent model years. There is the perception on the part of the corporate marketing types [just ask anyone at GM] that the American public is loath to pay extra for safety items on cars under $25k. You may disagree, and I do, but that perception is what drives these kinds of product decisions.

    I see no significant difference in the dedication of Honda and Toyota to safety issues. All '03 Accords are now ABS equipped, for example, while side curtain bags are more available on the Camry...tomato, tomahto...
  • One can at least chooce Camry with BOTH side AND curtain airbags.

    Except EX-V6, one do NOT even get the choice to pick a curtain airbag. (Yes, side bag is stanard, I believe).

    On Camry, side and curtain airbag together cost only about $430, that is about the same price as alloy wheels. IMHO, that will be mony well spend.
  • rutger3rutger3 Posts: 361
    I do find it ironic that on many cars an ash tray is standard,but not a side airbag. The comment on perception that most people hate to spend for safety items on cars under 25k has some validity,but most families desire these items and the Camry is a family car. I believe that a consumer who does not want an airbag would still purchase one with them especially if it is included in the sticker price; but the reverse may not be true thus costing the Mfg a sale. If the Camry base price were $250 more with the side bags they would probably sell just as many of them. Also, why would ABS be standard on many cars if people don't want to pay for them? I think a good example of a new safety item being added by the mfg without effecting the price was the inside trunk escape latch.
  • manamalmanamal Posts: 434
    what is up with the two star front seat side impact rating? I am about to buy a camry, but this is causing me to rethink....
  • ahossaahossa Posts: 152
    I read earlier in the year that Toyota and Honda are dead set on producing a camry and Accord under $20,000 so they have to leave out some things. I understand their pricing philosophy but I don't know why they don't offer a package as Nissan does on the Altima on the Base car.Nissan charges $799.00
  • manamalmanamal Posts: 434
    what is up with the two star front seat side impact rating? I am about to buy a camry, but this is causing me to rethink....
  • I am also considering Camry with the consideration for the 2 star side impact results.

    I am guessing/hoping that is just an experiment deviation. Since ES300 which is structually similar to Camry received very good results.

    I maybe wrong. But yes, I agree with you that it is concerning.

    Not sure if Toyota will come out to comment on the issue. Sometime ago, on this board, someone posted a conversation with Toyota customer service regarding the side impact results. Maybe you can search for it.
  • Hey everyone,

    I was also perturbed with the Camry 2 star rating, but the rating system is a little misleading. Since the rating systems provides on single rating for a range of TTI (thoracic trauma index) values, a car can be on the edge of a rating like the Camry. With an index of 92, this correlates to a side injury % of about 21%. If another vehicle were to garner a TTI of 89, it would have a 3 star rating instead of the Camry's 2 star rating. I'm not sure how the tests are performed and whether or not they average the results, but there can be some statistical deviation. Pretty confusing if you ask me. There is also another metric called the pelvis deceleration (measured in g's) that is recorded, but it does not seem to affect the ratings. For instance, the Altima recorded 114g's while the Camry recorded only 69g's. Does anyone know if there are details for the NCAP testing procedures?

    Well, this was just some of the research I performed regarding this matter. I am also thinking of purchasing a Camry, but I am going to ensure that I get the optional side airbags. Hope this helps.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,447
    Don't know if it is the case for the Camry, but sometimes very small things can make a difference in the crash tests. For example the car could be structurally very sound and the general occupant area could be protected, but there could be a hard piece of trim that hits the dummys head in just the wrong way that greatly changes the score. A smaller, larger, lighter, or heavier dummy may have acted very differently during the crash. This is why the Lexus with the air bags may do so much better. I really doubt it is a structural problem, since air bags alone will not make up for missing structure. In fact cars with the strongest structures (and thus the least crumpling) often have the highest stresses on the occupants, and this is where the air bags help.

    BMW was once criticized for making its cars too stiff in a crash, thus putting more stress on the occupants, but this is because they were designing for the offset crash which puts much more stress on a vehicle than the frontal crash, and requires a stiffer structrure.

    All crash tests are usefull, consider all of them together as well as real world crash test results to see if the car is indeed safe. I would not feel unsafe driving the Camry with the side airbags as it would probably score the same as the Lexus.
  • diploiddiploid Posts: 2,286
    "Honda, like other Mfg's could care less about the safety of its buyer's, otherwise they would make side air bags standard across the line. It is absurd that a safety item is optional."

    For your info, Honda has an engineering safety facility where they not only extensively test the safety of their cars, but also the safety of pedestrians who might end up on the hood of one of their cars in an unfortunate accident. They go as far as focusing on how you would land on the hood of an Accord should one ever run into you. I think that shows how much they do care.
  • Because the most important safety feature in an automobile is the DRIVER!
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    I hate to be the one to break the news to everyone, but you don't get hurt in an accident that doesn't happen.
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    I'm amazed at how many people say things like " I won't buy that car because of the 2 star crash test rating". That might give the impression that safety is important to people. Well where are they? I don't see any of them on the road. But I do see lots of people driving reclessly and dangerously. It's wose that ever.
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    It's like the desire for a 3rd row in a SUV. Everybody seems to want that now, but I've never seen anyone in a 3rd row and rarely ever see anyone in a 2nd row. Everybody wants 4 wheel drive but only 5 percent use it.
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    I think people want the car to be safer so they don't have to.
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    I ride a bicycle on the road over 10,000 miles a year ( that's much more than I drive my car ) with no airbags,ABS,crush zones,absolute no protection for my body (except a helmet with a "Third Eye Mirror" attached) and yet I feel very safe.
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    I feel safe because I ride smartly and safely, even though there are vehichles doing 80mph just 2 feet from my shoulder. I'm only the second person I've seen on a bike that has a mirror on the helmet. That mirror is the single most important safety feature when I'm riding because the helmet "MAY" protect (many people die who were wearing a helmet) me, but the mirror on my helmet will prevent accidents.(and it has for me many times).
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    If I don't have an accident, I can't get hurt.
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    I've been driving for 30 years now and not one of all these safety features would have made a difference in any accident I was involved in (not implying that they can't, but they haven't), but my relentless pursuit of safety on the road has saved my life many times.
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    Auto safety is more complicated that a 2star or 5star rating.
  • manamalmanamal Posts: 434
    Other camry crash test results:

    IIHS offset: Pest pick

    Japan (for a car called wisdom, which looks like a camry): 5 stars...

    I do not know what to make of this...

    (I am concerned, because 3 months ago I was hit broadside by a 4200 lb caddy...hit the pass. door in a SAAB 9-5).
  • 8u6hfd8u6hfd Posts: 1,391
    Toyota Windom is the Lexus ES300
  • rutger3rutger3 Posts: 361
    No matter how good a driver you are, there are situations which are totally out of your control,like those other reckless drivers. The correct statement should say that you can get hurt in an accident that was not supposed to happen. That is why they are called accidents.If someone runs a red light or crosses the yellow line you will be glad to have that safety eqipment. And how about if you have an emergency medical problem like a heart attack while driving and crash head on into a wall or another car? Riding a bike,how do you control the cars going 80 mph from hitting you? Do you have a magic bike? If you are the only one in control of your safety and you are a great rider,then why do you where a helmet? No, the crash tests are not the only criteria to use ,but they are a useful tool.
  • Crash tests can be very indicative of how a car might perform in a crash. I just hit a 99 Grand AM with my 2002 SI. I hit them on the passenger side fender and front door. I hit thim pretty much head on and then it spun them around the passenger side of my car so the most damage to my car was the passenger side of the engine and the passenger side fender of my car.

    The Grand AM does poorly in crash tests and you could see that. The front wheel almost came completely off, the roof was buckling, and it shattered the glass out of the rear passenger window and the front window.

    The 01+ Civics get 5 stars. The engine in my car was pushed back several inches to the point where it was touching the firewall, the passenger side fender was pushed back into the passenger side door, and alot of the electrical components in the engine were damaged but I walked out without a scratch and both doors still opened. They ended up taking the 2 occupants of the Grand Am to the hospital but I was able to walk out and go home.

    So is a crash test result the only factor to consider when buying a car? No but it is an indicator of how a car will perform. I personally wouldn't want my family in a car that only gets 2 stars in side impact protection. I could only imagine what would've happened to the 8 year old in the Grand Am I hit if she were sitting in the front seat on the side where I hit them or if I had hit them closer to the back seat.
  • Hi,
    I was surfing through this board because my mother drives an '01 Camry (from my user name you should be able to guess what my preference is...) Anyway I was intrigued by vmaturo's comments on crash tests. Safety equipment and crash test results should be important criteria when purchasing a new or used car. Before I purchased my car I thoroughly checked the iihs and nhtsa websites for data. Unfortunately over the summer I had the opportunity to see the reliability of the data for myself. I was involved in an offset, frontal crash with an SUV. And I have to agree that accidents are called accidents for a reason--no one plans them. Even the best drivers make mistakes, and it is feasable that you could be in an accident where the other driver is 100% at fault. Thankfully my Sable held up just as iihs indicated it would and I was not injured. EMS workers and firefighters on the scene were amazed at how well my car absorbed the impact and that I was not injured. I think if I had been driving a different vehicle I would be telling a different story. Thats why I was very concerned when I saw that the '02 Camry received only 2 stars in the side impact crash test. I find this odd since the 2001 model received four stars. Now looking @ the graphs on the nhtsa website it is clear that the Camry is right on the line between 2 and 3 stars. However I just find it strange that Toyota would redesign a model that winds up being less crashworthy than its predecesor. I am sure that Toyota conducted its own side impact tests before releasing the vehicle. Also, the Camry nhtsa used in the test was already equipped with the side air bags (I think someone who posted on here was confused about that). Personally I think the Camry is a great car and if money weren't such a large factor in my decision I probably would have purchased one. However, I hope that Toyota adresses this important issue because consumers should not have to settle for less when it comes to safety. Well thats my $.02--happy posting.
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