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Toyota Halts Sales of Popular Models - Accelerator Stuck Problem Recall

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Comments

  • popsavalonpopsavalon Posts: 230
    Tinkerbelle07, you speak the truth. Cars are machines and if you properly maintain them, fix little things before they become big things, etc., they will usually serve you fairly well. I have owned a lot of different vehicles in my 50+ years of driving, and I can honestly say that I have never owned a total lemon (some were close). I post on this forum because I got tired of American vehicles in the early 1990s, and bought a Toyota Camry. It quickly proved to be the best vehicle I have ever owned. The 2007 Avalon that I drive now is a great ride, lots of room, honest 30MPG, peppy enough for me. I, too, get real tired of folks who have never owned a Toyota product jumping on the trash bandwagon. There are very few automakers out there right who are not having some quality issues. Maybe too much technology too fast?????
  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,065
    Maybe too much technology too fast?????

    I think it has more to do with greed than anything else. Ordering your suppliers to lower their price by 30%? What kind of idiot would do that? How that bean counter ever got into such a position at Toyota is unbelievable. Hopefully not ever again.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,713
    edited July 2010
    Why don't you go out and drive the Avalon and experience it. I would buy a new Avalon without any hesitation. Look at Ford, GMC and Chrysler record on recalls and they have been numerous.

    ...right. I have way too much automotive design integrity to even get near a Toyota product ta buy. Way, way too much. Toyota's are appliances, strictly. The Celica, xA, tC, perhaps even the more mundane Yaris, the under-development FA-86 Coupe, those Toyota products have some design fungus-sh-wayy to them, and merit some more discussion...so go ahead and put another Foghat album on and let it enable you to think by virtue of their unrivalled boogie-blues prowess.

    You see, the minute a Toyota Prius, Frankie Avalon, Clamry or Adam Caa-roollllll-aaa start looking like tasty purchase morsels to me, the entire state of Arizona might as well morph right back in ta Mexico again. I...mean for the first time. And live in peace with the drug-gunnists there.

    I see no future in dull appliance rigs like Toyota's...have some design fungus-schway. Dig in ta that big backyard hamburger and turn up Uncle Ted playing 'Stranglehold' and get yer minds thinking design and integrity. Toyota, Honda and here's another one...Sue-barr-uuu...yukk!

    They send their youngins down ta the basement with their etch-a-sketchs and demand that they come up with another bland or ugly vehicle. Are they rewarding their little brats with free new Subaru's when they turn 16 for coming up with some of these ugly rigs? Have you purused a modern Subaru lately? Sheesh! Come on! Get some glasses and get some serious body design-flow integrity flowing smoothly. Like a GP jump shot over Michael Jordan.

    Mitsubishi has it down well and Peter Schreyer (former Audi Design Chief now working for Kia Motors) has it down well. Study their cars and get back ta class and we'll chat ourselves up silly about it.

    Heck, even VW is on the up body design wise. If they could just build rigs that don't turn in to electrical jell-O and cost owner/operators hundreds and thousands of dollars in electrical repair bills I might take a longer look at those German-built vehicles.

    Design study-up though before coming back ta class or you'll just be talking out yer...ummm....pie holes in glorious unison.

    image

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • triplej51triplej51 Posts: 48
    I think it has more to do with greed than anything else. Ordering your suppliers to lower their price by 30%? What kind of idiot would do that? How that bean counter ever got into such a position at Toyota is unbelievable. Hopefully not ever again.

    I know the article to which you're referring but whatever you read you misunderstood what was printed. You might want to reread it for more detailed context and deeper understanding. It says nothing about demaning that suppliers lower prices by 30% ( that may only be your interpretation ). It also says nothing about the US nor N America.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,095
    Actually the ES350 is a re-badge of the Camry. The Avalon is bigger and a lot roomier than either the Camry or ES350. Of course the Genesis tops all 3 in just about every category. Plus has the best safety score. No history of UA either. How can you go wrong.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,936
    Toyota said it was replacing the valve spring in the recalled vehicles, produced between July 2005 and August 2008 — Lexus models GS350, GS450h, GS460, IS350, LS460, LS600h, LS600hL and Crown models.

    Read more: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2001567,00.html#ixzz0sr6gYjjr

    this problem went unnoticed for over 3 years?
  • cannon3cannon3 Posts: 296
    Another black eye for Toyota. Sure hope this stops or Toyota may be in trouble in the coming years. :blush:
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    Unnoticed...NO,....IGNORED...!

    Probably only rose to the surface due to all the other adverse publicity.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,095
    Maybe enough people got left by the side of the road with a dead Lexus, to get their attention. I don't put the problem in quite the same light as unsolved UA issues. Still when you buy a $45k + vehicle you expect the engine to keep running. Am I to understand this is an instant failure? No warning that the engine is near death?
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,713
    edited July 2010
    I know this observation to be true...that Toyota leads the world in SUA incidents. Of all SUA incidents reported, Toyota vehicles are the culprit about 75% of the time. And though the "experts" are pardoning away Toyota mechanical systems for these accidental "burst of energy" incidents, they have still happened.

    The pedal re-shape and floor mat redo's and all are having an impact in reducing repeat SUA incidents. But it's those blasted other ones where pedal and mat have been absolved of blame that get to me a bit.

    What's causing those other SUA incidents? ECU bugs of some flavor...the off duty CHP Officer and his family had a horrible surprise one day on the freeway in San Diego that will never be forgotten. I know all carmakers make miskakes and have recalls and such.

    Mitsubishi has had a problem with covering up a defect in one of their model's engines around ten years ago...and they made the horrible sales mistake of offering great 0-0-0 deals to mostly young men with bad credit. It came back to bite them cleanly in the hindquarters, too. But Mitsubishi is not having SUA incidents and they're not having things go on that they're running from or refusing to fix. For being so cash-rich why is Toyota being so greedy in refusing to come clean with fixes of faults and recalls and hitches in their glitches, pops?

    Do you feel good being one of their customers? And you're telling me you feel safe, too?

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • berriberri Posts: 4,254
    I always thought Mitsu were referred to as "blue smokers"? I've only had one twice as a rental and didn't find them too memorable. However, I respect any person's individual choice and preferences.

    I don't have an Avalon, but I do own a Camry. My only complaint has been the seat bottoms are too short on long trips. Haven't experienced all these other supposed problems. If Toyota was that bad, I'd expect their sales would be tumbling. They may have not gained as big of a percentage as some others (Toyota sales did not go down either), but their base the percentage is calculated on is often larger negating a straight sales increase percentage comparison (e.g. they sell a lot more Camry's than Malibu or Fusion). I do think many vehicles are getting closer to each other in quality though and wouldn't pay any significant premium any more for a Toyota or Honda.

    As for SUA, you need to look at the base number probabilities of occurrence. The differences in rate aren't all that critical to me when the likelihood of experiencing it in any modern vehicle is out on the edge of the bell curve. You need to understand the base, and the concept of outliers, before you draw a firm conclusion on "differences" when using statistics. When probabilities are out on the edge of the curve, you can be dealing with noise more than a significant issue. Yes, the results of SUA can be scary or harmful, especially if you don't have time to react, but so is any accident and you are probably more likely to be T-boned or in a head on collision than experiencing SUA these days.
  • ClairesClaires Chicago areaPosts: 979
    edited July 2010
    Hi, folks,

    A number of posts have been removed because we seem to have veered off into 80's-90s music, Avalon emissions, miscellaneous road trips, nice Canadians and other stuff that doesn't have anything to do with the topic, which is "Toyota Halts Sales of Popular Models - Accelerator Stuck Problem Recall".

    ClaireS, Host
    Automotive News & Views | Coupes & Convertibles

    MODERATOR
    Need help getting around? claires@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • bdymentbdyment Posts: 551
    I am a nice Canadian, but thank you for getting this forum finally back on track.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,936
    you certainly used a big broom.
    the first thing i did when i saw all those posts were deleted, was to check my email for a nasty gram, but didn't see one.
    i guess i am guilty for introducing the music angle, but i was fishing for some info.
    my opinion is that the Camry and Avalon are at the very least fraternal twins.
    that is why they are both included in the models covered under this discussion.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,095
    Lest we forget. The Avalon that was brought into the dealership with a WOT. After an unknown fix given back to the customer. No further trouble reported that I know of.

    Question?? Did the dealer swap out the ECU or what? The throttle body controller was changed according to the paper work given the customer. NOT the throttle controller or pedal. This was a well documented case of UA within the engine/transmission and associated electronics. No jammed floor mats. Just a customer with an Avalon running at full throttle. Turning the engine off and restarting did not solve the problem. What did Toyota learn from that vehicle. So far I don't think they are sharing the info with the public.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Gary says, "What did Toyota learn from that vehicle. So far I don't think they are sharing the info with the public. "

    I don't think we "need to know" the details of problem or the solution.

    I do think this, however: If Toyota learned anything substantial, they are probably testing the solution on other cars before announcing anything.

    Maybe this was an isolated case in which the solution to this car's problem does not apply to the other vehicles or even other Avalons.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,713
    edited July 2010
    gremlin issue with SUA, I would think more than twice about buying one. And I am one who was once gaga over the Scion xA and tC. To the point of laying down cash for either one. The 2006 xA, for only $14,235 in 5-speed form and Polar White color, was a bargain for what you got. I test drove one of them in Idaho Falls, ID, and loved it. I also had my eyes on a 2007 Toyota Yaris 4-dr. sedan in 5-speed form, too, in Pocatello, ID. All three cars I was ready to trade in for. The other half, with her common sense and love for our '01 Kia Sportage 4X4, neatly boxed those ideas of mine in and blew them up to smithereens for me.

    Point is that I'm not a Toyota hater. Promise. But these SUA problems are reported more by Toyota than all the other manufacturers combined. That's a lingering problem that trimming floor mats and re-shaping accelerator pedals won't fix.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 6,028
    edited July 2010
    From the Wall Street Journal:

    "The U.S. Dept. of Transportation has analyzed dozens of data recorders from Toyota Motor Corp. vehicles involved in accidents blamed on sudden acceleration and found that at the time of the crashes, throttles were wide open and the brakes were not engaged, people familiar with the findings said.

    The results suggest that some drivers who said their Toyota and Lexus vehicles surged out of control were mistakenly flooring the accelerator when they intended to jam on the brakes. But the findings don't exonerate Toyota from two known issues blamed for sudden acceleration in it's vehicles: Sticky accelerator pedals and floor mats that can trap accelerator pedals to the floor".

    I would post a link if I knew how !!

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • roho1roho1 Posts: 317
    This thread has run its course. There hasn't been any relevant posts or news for that matter concerning the subject in weeks. Time to lock it down. There are too many posts now for any new person to read thru to actually know what went on here.

    I must say I learned a lot between this thread and the Toyota on the mend in 2010 thread during the peak of the recalls and sua incidents back in height of the issue around January. Many knowledgeable posters here and good discussions went on. However, lately this has been mostly a waste of time.
  • carlupicarlupi Posts: 52
    At last, some light is shed on the hysterical allegations of sudden acceleration by Toyota cars. How is it possible that, after the first few cases were reported, the problem just magically disappeared?
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 6,028
    LOL, I think once these scammers realized the cars had computers in them that would show evidence of just what happened they quit screaming and trying to cash in and started ducking !!

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,182
    "BREAKING: NHTSA Blames Driver Error For Toyota Unintended Acceleration"


    NHTSA admits that is has yet to find any sign of a problem with Toyota’s electronic throttle control system, the main system targeted by Sean Kane, and congressional hearings.
  • popsavalonpopsavalon Posts: 230
    I agree. The halt of Toyota vehicle sales is over, and the relevant Toyota recall information posting is buried back a ways. If there are new issues relating to recalls, let that person start a new "Toyota Avalon Recalls" thread. This thread is also linked to eight separate vehicles, which makes the posts even more confusing.

    These Edmunds Forums are set up to get good information and discussion on a particular vehicle. Let's get back to that.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 6,028
    Looks like the whole fiasco was nothing but a false alarm. Just a bunch of crooks trying to fake accidents and cash in.

    Now that some solid evidence is available I expect the whole thing to die a quiet death.

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    I'm still waiting for the results from the NASA testing....
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Sadly, i don't think these conclusions are going to bring "closure" to the families who lost loved ones in "mysterious" 'Yota crashes.
  • berriberri Posts: 4,254
    I stated early on that I felt many of these were driver error and noted that just looking around at drivers the Camry had become the modern day blue hair Olds 88 or Grand Marquis. It has never really been uncommon for cars to smack into buildings or on to sidewalks, especially in areas with older drivers. If you read the papers around the country you'll see articles about these type of incidents more frequently than you'd expect.

    I do believe there can be an occasional electronic gremlin, just like on a computer and that's why I'm leery of smart key ignitions. However, the worst probability I saw in the various articles was something like a 1 in 45,000 occurrence of SUA in Toyota (which was the highest incident rate of the car makers). However, realistically that represents very small fraction of a single percentage point probability. Eliminate driver error, and that fraction likely gets much smaller yet. So I'm not surprised at all about the flame out after all the hype. I own a Camry and think I'm much more likely to get T-boned or become the victim of a head-on than experiencing SUA. I did do a precautionary dry run shifting into neutral and turning the key down one notch (which incidentally even worked for that SIU professor), but I'm not going to live my life in the extreme tail of a bell curve and am not frantically considering selling my Toyota either.
  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,065
    Now that some solid evidence is available I expect the whole thing to die a quiet death.

    Personally, I'd wait for NASA's findings.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 6,028
    edited July 2010
    Sadly, many thousands of good people are killed annually on our highways. I don't think there is ever much closure in deaths of this sort, be it in a Toyota or any other car brand.

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 6,028
    When that report comes in and also shows DRIVER ERROR as the cause of every reported incident, then what will you be waiting on?

    Looks like all those fancy theories about faulty electronics have just been knocked into a cocked hat !! :P

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

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