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Toyota Halts Sales of Popular Models - Accelerator Stuck Problem Recall

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  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,794
    "BREAKING: NHTSA Blames Driver Error For Toyota Unintended Acceleration"

    Sort of interesting to see who broke the story, if you can believe the stories:

    Did Toyota Plant DOT Driver Error Story? (Inside Line)

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  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,250
    For those being burned by emotional comments from toyotaphiles, this story is too good not to list the text. AND it's on Edmunds, which gives it even more credibiity.

    And may I add, it's what I suspected for the second time about toyota trying to twist the grain of sand and get their version out before the NHSTA or other source actually gives the "rest of the story."

    Quote:
    A reporter with Just-auto spoke with a representative from the NHTSA who claims that Toyota was the sole source of information asserting driver-error as the cause of all sudden acceleration claims.

    "That story was planted by Toyota," an NHTSA spokeswoman in Washington told just-auto. "Toyota is the source - yes we know that for definite.

    "It is [the] Toyota PR machine. We knew they were going to put it out."

    If the official word is driver error, we aren't likely to know about it any time soon. The NHTSA and DOT are still working with NASA amongst other groups, and have yet to announce final conclusions. Official updates can be found on the NHTSA special Toyota Recall and Investigation page.

    End quote.

    Doesn't sound like weasel words in their comment. They are CLEAR that toyota planted the story.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,018
    No surprises there. Looking back at the situation. I don't recall any outcry or data on UA being posted here on Edmund's until the Saylor accident. Then we find out that there were and are a very high percentage of the total SUA reports to the NHTSA attributed to Toyota and Lexus vehicles. As far as I know that percentage has not changed. Anyone have any recent reports from the NHTSA? I know right after the supposed pedal fix there were still reports. That led to the NASA involvement. I would imagine it will be a long time before they get done with their testing. The US government is not known for their speed except at tax collecting time.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,921
    edited July 2010
    I think it is interesting that no one seems to be disputing the fact that driver error does indeed appear to be the cause of the unintended acceleration at this point in the investigation. The dispute is only over who broke the story. I hardly think it matters too much where the information came from.

    If it was Toyota who broke the story, they must have felt that this information was newsworthy, and I would agree with that assessment.

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    edited July 2010
    "...no one seems to be disputing..."

    Don't count me in that list.

    Yes, the majority of SUA, especially short term SUA incidents, are more likely than otherwise the result of driver confusion, faulty floor mats, or even sticking gas pedals. But that does not account for Saylor, Sikes, or the Smith lady. And then there is the incident wherein the car was driven to the dealer with the engine ROARING at full throttle.
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    Hi, has been a long time since I blogged. H-mmm nice great long vacation trip.

    Go to House Commerce governemnt site and actually read what. Oversight Committee had documented as to what is actually going on. Click on hearing tab - click on oversight. Check the Academy of Sciences Website also. They are conducting an investigation also, but I can't find any online documentation. Sean Kane Safety Research & Strategies wrote a summary of that meeting. At least can give some insight what discussed. Yes, I do know many do not like him. But have found many of articles are true, but does blast away. Wish Academy of Scientist would have online documents, but I have not found.

    NASA scientists have investigation going on also.

    Go to Edmunds Toyota on Mend - I posted links to info.

    wwest you will find government documents long, but quite interesting for what they reveal about Dr Gilberts study and Toyota's debunking Dr Gilbert's study at televised press broadcast. See for yourself what Washington hired independent engineers/professors thought of Dr Gilbert's study. As Dr Gilbert always said and introduced as only a preliminary study and felt was just beginning - appears several independent experts feel his SUA study was good and was good place to start. Note Dr Gerdes from Standford that Toyota asked to review Dr Gilbert's work finally admitted to oversight committee study was logical, & good place to start. See what government heard from their expert independent engineers about the Toyota televised broadcast. I think alot of this is in Stupak document.

    See documents - the debunking of Sean Kane and Dr Gilbert poll set up for Toyota, plus same debunking credibility of same individuals approach methods formulated by a consulting firm.

    Also Toyota pressured University of Southern Illinois and successfully shut down Dr Gilbert. Attempted to get him fired. AP posted news report this past weekend. AP requested all information from school under the Freedom of Public Inofrmation Act, and finally got - so story could be written. This is why Dr Gilbert is quiet. I had already seen a report earlier, but this one was most recent. All is quiet now, so no other news agencies jumping on story. Smile - is old news now.

    Recently towards end of June Washington hired engineers claimed to have found existing brake overrride being present on older Toyota models. End of June Oversight Committee sent letter to Toyota. Documents show Washington upset at Toyota, after Toyota did not reveal this information during all the testimony and/or individual discussions/interviews. I posted links to review document letter yesterday.

    Documents reveal Toyota's hired expert engineering Exponent has multiple shenanigans that have been uncovered. As you are aware I had no respect for Exponent from my professional medical work and resulting research I did on firm long time ago.. Not surprised, just didn't know if lawmakers and experts presently would catch. Just know you gotta watch Exponent - they play dirty, but are very good at what they do.

    Refer to government docuemnts of billing costs paid to Exponent for this SUA defense since Dec, 2009. Exponent received $3+ million. Somhow I have difficulty seeing how they can make claim debunking Sean Kane and Dr Gilbert claiming Dr Gilbert hired by attorneys - Gilbert was only paid total hours worked - $1800 + $4000 paid for equipment to complete study with agreement equipment left for auto technology school. University approved Dr Gilbert's research study and they do have high guidelines/standards that must be followed to avoid biased research studies. .

    SUA Verdict is still out. Could be at least another year. We shall see. I am still in pending mode.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,707
    edited July 2010
    I appreciate you both for wanting the truth on Toyota vehices and their SUA, because you both have spent money on Toyota automotive products. You think that doesn't matter, Edmunds readership? It sure does! Neither of these Edmunds posters just blindly sticks behind Toyota just because they've spent money on Toyota products, as it should be. It's called honesty. Something Toyota is sorely lacking in, huh?

    The US government is not known for their speed except at tax collecting time.

    gagrice, how else are they supposed to keep building huge warships and fast jet aeroplane man-o-wars for all of us? The U.S. Federal Guv-Mint is ever-so-proficient at collecting taxes from us, at a high percentage-per-dollar earned. Always have and dare I say they always....gulp...will?

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • karie23karie23 Posts: 2
    I was in the process of buying a 2010 Highlander just this past week when I came across a story that a 33 year old mom in Fort Worth, TX was killed April 30 in her 2010 Toyota Highlander. She dies, her 2 young children survived. I watched the news clip several times and listened to the drivers that saw what happened and I kept concluding that the damn thing ran away with her. I walked away from a very good deal and I'm really upset about this. Does anyone know what the findings were in this? Google "fort worth mom killed in toyota".
  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,065
    asking if anyone experienced SUA on their Toyota to call XYZ law firm. Thought that was interesting to say the least.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,707
    might as well get the personal injury lawyers involved. Spose it's time.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,794
    edited July 2010
    Well, that's a big part of Sean Kane's business - support services for trial lawyers. (He runs the outfit that Dr. Gilbert took his accelerator part to when Toyota wouldn't talk to him).

    SRS

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,018
    It will probably be a while before the police report comes out. It does not sound like someone speeding on purpose. Can't blame it on old age. Doesn't sound like a death wish or a scam artist. Wonder what the explanation by Toyota will be.

    Dawna Gillis Casey, 33, had carefully strapped her two young children into car seats in the back of her new 2010 Toyota Highlander sport utility vehicle

    It was 8 a.m. and she was driving to her job at a local church where she teaches two-year-olds, but witnesses said Casey was driving fast erratically, and passing other cars in the eastbound lanes of North Tarrant Parkway when and she lost control.

    She swerved into the median and then back across to the right shoulder at a speed estimated between 50 and 60 mph.

    "Kind of corrected itself, and I thought maybe she'd be okay," said Kellie Mayhew. All of a sudden, it just started going fast again."

    The vehicle struck a concrete culvert and rocketed into the air.

    "Kinda looked like something out of a movie," said Mayhew, who manages a nearby apartment complex. "Flipped about five times and landed on its side."

    The mangled SUV ended up about 60 yards from the roadway. Dawna Casey was killed.

    "Everybody was rocking the vehicle and trying to get ... the mother out of the vehicle. They were pulling the babies out of the back when I got up there," Mayhew said.


    http://www.khou.com/news/texas-news/High-speed-Toyota-crash-in-Fort-Worth-leaves- -mom-dead-92510704.html
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,707
    edited July 2010
    hate ta say it Toyota fans but here we go again. Another Toyota vehicle out of control and another person killed as a result of a sped up vehicle rocketing all over the freeway.

    And this is normal to you guys, eh? We are to shut our eyes and go follow Mel Gibson and his latest tirade instead, huh? Or, root for Lindsay Lohan's welfare in her faux-rehab luxo-retreat just before she starts serving jail time. Nah, those stories are too pedestrian. Actors are notorious screwups at real life issues. Everyone knows that.

    But Toyota was the "safe" car manufacturer. They're not used to being the ones under the microscope. For years on the net we've all endured the put-downs of Hyundai and Kia and name your underdog car manufacturer. Toyota is the "safe" car to buy. It will be a safe and reliable transaction for you, because if you don't like it you can always trade your Toyota in for pert-near what you bought it for originally!

    See why this is a story of automotive interest...still? Course it is. :shades:

    Oops. Should've popped one of these in...I suppose. :sick:

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Y'all need to just chill a sec.

    Not EVERY Toyota crash can automagically be blamed on SUA.

    Good Lordy..... :mad:
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,018
    Did I say anything about SUA? I think you assumed the accident was caused by SUA. Which makes sense with the unsolved cases pending.
  • mickeyrommickeyrom Posts: 936
    One of my wife's friends backed into the neighbor's garage last Saturday. It was not a Toyota and it was not UA.She put her foot on the gas pedal,instead of the brake.I'm sure you get my point.
    My Prius has not experienced any issue at all, after almost 50,000 miles,most by a previous owner,but the car has never been in an accident.
  • beachfish2beachfish2 Posts: 177
    Okay, I googled and read some news stories on the mom and her 2 children and read some of the comments from people who knew her.

    They said that her epilepsy was the mild kind and that she wasn't the kind of person to text while driving.

    I was initially thinking stroke or heart attack or severe allergic reaction, but it could be something else.

    John
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Gary says, "Did I say anything about SUA?"

    Ahem: Gary, this is posted in the "Accelerator Stuck Problem Recall" forum.

    If you did not intend to bring SUA into the discussion, why post it here?
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    If you know of, have read, the witness reports for the earlier actions of the Saylor vehicle then this one sounds ALL too familiar.
  • beachfish2beachfish2 Posts: 177
    "then this one sounds ALL too familiar"

    Saylor had a seizure disorder too? I didn't know.

    John
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,018
    Where would you suggest I post a Toyota accident that looks mighty suspicious? Most of the posters here are in denial concerning any kind of electronic failures with Toyota. Even though most will admit their Toyota electronics are less than up to standard. Surging at a stop is not a good selling point. I don't recall the Toyota salesman saying be sure and keep your foot on the brake when at a stoplight or you may ram the person in front of you. It may be common sense to do that and I do. It is still a defective design by Toyota. So now we have another possible Saylor situation and you don't want to hear about it. Hmmmmm
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,018
    Pretty far fetched I would say. Don't you think the brother-in-law would have mentioned that when talking to the 911 operator. Having been married to an epileptic it is not something hard to detect. A seizure takes over all muscle control and incapacitates the victim. Sounds like the Toyota spin folks are out in force on this one.
  • fezofezo Posts: 9,357
    Seizures are nasty beasts. I had two of them back several years back. You are completely unconscious and wake up slowly with someone else telling you what happened.

    Not saying that is what happened here but it's a piece of the story.

    in NJ one seizure immediately suspends your drivers license and a neurologist has to sign off on letting you back on the road. If you have a second within a year it's suspended a year and continues until you go a whole year without one. In Pennsylvania the first one gets you that year off. They're nothing to dismiss lightly,
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,018
    edited July 2010
    It is very possible that the lady in TX had a seizure. Not the CHP Saylor in CA. And you having suffered know it takes a while to regain any of your faculties. It was scary the first time my wife had one. She was able to control it with medication. You can lose your license and as a teacher my ex-wife could have lost her teaching job. She is now on full disability as a result.
  • fezofezo Posts: 9,357
    Oh, yeah. The Saylor case is something completely different.

    I was fortunate in that they figured out what caused mine. Actually the second was from a side effect from - of all things - the anti-seizure drug I was on. The root problem was a clotting factor disorder. I'm on coumadin for that.

    Amazingly despite this, a bone marrow problem, a blind eye, arthritis since I was a kid and a host of other issues they haven't seen fit to disable me.

    Waking from a seizure is a pretty surreal experience. For the first one I was in my living room one moment and the next thing I knew I'm looking up at the lights in the ER. For the second one I was in the ER when I had it. Because of tests they'd already done they were going to admit me and at one point I ask my wife what's taking so long and she say because of the seizure they needed to get a space on the neurology floor. I say it's been 13 months since the seizure and she says - no, the one you had tonight. News to me!
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,921
    edited July 2010
    By all means, if you are worried enough to find the Edmund's forums, join up, find this particular forum, then make your first, and so far, only post then you are definitely too worried to buy a Toyota.

    Actually you probably should not be driving at all if you are that easily frightened, as I think all the brands have been involved in fatal accidents over the years.

    Oh, and I guess you forgot to mention the epilepsy thing.

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • karie23karie23 Posts: 2
    WOW...excuse me for not being so emotionally attached to an automotive company so much that I would put my child's life or my own in a vehicle that has been reported to take off like a drunken rocket with us in it on any given day of the week. After coming upon this incident, I personally called Toyota's customer service departmant (got the # from toyota.com) and talked with a man that was brutally honest to my surprise. While he couldn't give me details about any one specific accident, he could legally tell me that YES, in fact they are strill receiving reports of SUA in the 2010 Highlanders from consumers. This was enough for me to get over the suv of my dreams whether it saddens me or not!!! Maybe the chances are slim of it happening to the one that I drive off the lot, but I'm just not willing to take that risk. Maybe these folks will have their act together by the time I buy my next suv.
    Plain and simple...I prayed about buying the most safe and relaible car to transport my family...The next day, this story about the mom in Fort Worth fell in my lap.
  • beachfish2beachfish2 Posts: 177
    "Most of the posters here are in denial concerning any kind of electronic failures with Toyota. Even though most will admit their Toyota electronics are less than up to standard. Surging at a stop is not a good selling point. "

    - Most are not in denial, you are paranoid or a conspiracy theorist or something..
    - What electronic failures?
    - The electronics in my '06 Avalon are fine as are the ones in my '10 Highlander.
    - None of my Toyotas, going back as far as a new '86 Camry LE and a '94 LE, have surged at a stop.

    In other words, what are you talking about?

    John

    P.S. - Somebody compared the Saylor wreck with the woman dying and said the wrecks were similar. That's why I mentioned her epilepsy - because the poster said they were similar. Jeez, nevermind. Am I typing in English????
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,018
    As early as 2002, Toyota warned its dealers through a Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) that certain models of its cars could experience engine surging and that an electronic recalibration was necessary to fix the problem. The document appears to fly in the face of recent testimony from Toyota that the company has never found a defect in its electronic throttle control system that has caused unintended acceleration.

    The TSB, issued on August 30, 2002, entitled "ECM Calibration Update: 1 MZ-FE Engine Surging" stated that "Some 2002 model year Camry vehicles equipped with the 1MZ-FE engine may exhibit a surging during light throttle input at speeds between 38-42 MPH with lock-up (l/U) 'ON.' The engine control module (ECM) calibration has been revised to correct this condition."

    While the report was brought to light by Congressman Bart Stupak, D-Mich., prior to the U.S. House Energy Subcommittee on Oversight in late February and first reported on by Automotive News, the actual document had not circulated until this week. CNN began circulating the TSB on its website and through a new report which aired on the channel last night.


    http://autos.aol.com/article/toyota-throttle-warning-2002/

    For those in denial about Toyota surging try this google search, it has 4.46 Million links.

    http://www.google.com/search?q=toyota+surging+problem&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&cli- ent=firefox-a&rlz=1R1GGIC_en___US345

    PS
    My 2007 Sequoia surges forward when stopped, it I don't keep a firm foot on the brakes.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Gary's link says, "The document appears to fly in the face of recent testimony from Toyota that the company has never found a defect in its electronic throttle control system that has caused unintended acceleration."

    "surge" and "unintended acceleration" are completely different animals.
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