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Toyota Halts Sales of Popular Models - Accelerator Stuck Problem Recall

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Comments

  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    Will the gears disengage with so much rotation TORQUE applied..?? WOT engine DRIVING your front wheels simultaneous with FULL braking.
  • dturrdturr Posts: 70
    Is this fix for CTS pedals to be installed on;
    1.Existing customer vehicles.
    2.New cars in stock at dealers.
    3.Cars at the factory that are complete.

    What about vehicles that have not yet been built will they have Desmo, CTS, or piece of metal fix or maybe a new design.

    If I was a potential buyer I would want to know.
  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,065
    This morning it was that the owner of a Sienna, another model not included, was killed in an unintended acceleration crash.

    Details? Link?
  • oparroparr Posts: 65
    I see no reason to park mine. The odds of being wiped out by a drunk or someone texting on a mobile or some other freak accident are much greater IMO.

    Frankly, if it wasn't due to the tragic Lexus incident, most of us probably wouldn't even know there was an issue. If there is any semblance of a silver lining from that then it's probably knowing what to do in the unlikely event it does happen to you.

    Will I be first in line for the recall....Probably not either (he said with crossed fingers and legs while knocking on three types of wood).
  • flxmomflxmom Posts: 24
    What does WOT mean?
  • oparroparr Posts: 65
    WOT = Wide Open Throttle
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    Looks like Toyota tried to explain it, but consumers are having the last word:

    Ford said today car sales rose 43 percent in January
  • "Also I believe post-mortem indicated/surmised that the brakes were either overheated or that brake vacuum was absent, or both. "

    If I had a penny for every "belief" others have tried to sell me on, I would be richer than Bill Gates, :)
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,935
    "A Toyota Sienna driven by a 36-year-old Lucia Camacho from the Buellton area was struck a Chevy Cobalt driven by a Paso Robles resident with three other occupants onboard."

    Paso men injured in Highway 101 car accident (Paso Robles Press)

    Er, the Sienna had SUA. And the Cobalt's steering went wacko.

    Federal safety agency investigates complaints of steering problems with Chevy Cobalt (LA Times)

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    Are we really getting the truth from Toyota? Seems like Toyota is only one who is doing the safety analysis. Toyota seems to claim information is proprietory information and must be kept secret. Please correct me if I am wrong. But this is what I have been reading in agency, etc. reports seen. Reports seem to say even our government safety agency leaves this investigation soley to auto manufcturer/s to do, and appears to rely/base decisions on information provided from auto manufacturer.

    Can we trust Toyota statements, when they are only ones conducting investigative analysis? Would we trust any affected auto manufacturer? Unbiased professionals experts do not appear to involved/present during investigative testing process.

    I am sending along this video plus a recent news report since the San Diego accident has been highly reported/mentioned for your review. Just found video of old TV News Report done at time of accident this morning. I have noticed many blogger reports differed. Hope this helps.

    NOTE - THIS VEHICLE WAS A DEALERSHIP LOANER VEHICLE WHILE THEIR OWN VEHICLE WAS BEING REPAIRED. Listen again to report to verify.

    CHP REPORT STATED VEHICLE WAS BURNED, FEELS CAUSE COULD BE FLOOR MATS, BUT COULD NOT RULE OUT ELECTRONIC THROTTLE SYSTEM OF DRIVE BY WIRE(COMPUTER SENSORS PART OF SYSTEM).

    Below is link to You Tube news report made months ago when crash occurred.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZWPItpu2bM

    Below is new New York Times Article, Jan 31, 2010 - appears to pretty much same as other news media releases and safety site reports I have seen:

    The 911 call came at 6:35 p.m. on Aug. 28 from a car that was speeding out of control on Highway 125 near San Diego.
    The caller, a male voice, was panic-stricken: “We’re in a Lexus ... we’re going north on 125 and our accelerator is stuck ... we’re in trouble ... there’s no brakes ... we’re approaching the intersection ... hold on ... hold on and pray ... pray ...”
    The call ended with the sound of a crash.
    The Lexus ES 350 sedan, made by Toyota, had hit a sport utility vehicle, careened through a fence, rolled over and burst into flames. All four people inside were killed: the driver, Mark Saylor, an off-duty California Highway Patrol officer, and his wife, daughter and brother-in-law.
    It was the tragedy that forced Toyota, which had received more than 2,000 complaints of unintended acceleration, to step up its own inquiry, after going through multiple government investigations since 2002.
    Yet only last week did the company finally appear to come to terms with the scope of the problem — after expanding a series of recalls to cover millions of vehicles around the world, incalculable damage to its once-stellar reputation for quality and calls for Congressional hearings.
    With prodding from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, Toyota halted production and sales of eight models, including its top-selling Camry sedan.
    And late last week, the government allowed the company to go ahead to try yet another new fix for its vehicles, which it is expected to announce on Monday.
    At almost every step that led to its current predicament, Toyota underestimated the severity of the sudden-acceleration problem affecting its most popular cars. It went from discounting early reports of problems to overconfidently announcing diagnoses and insufficient fixes.
    _________________

    Toyota is not only manufacturer that has problems. These other manufacturers are being very quiet it seems. Wish news media would also report the other manufacturers that seem to rise above all the other auto manufacturers in analysis graph comparing manufacturers over the last ten years.

    Good luck everyone.
  • And yes, you can shift from D to N whenever you like, I've done it to see. It's not recommended to coast out of gear on the road, but people do it save gas on long downhills. Google Georgia Overdrive.

    And that TampaBay newspaper article was enlightening.

    "Traffic investigators did note that they found two floor mats each on the driver and passenger side of the Camry. One was the original factory floor mat and another a hard plastic floor mat, cut to fit, and placed on top of the factory floor mat, part of which was covering the accelerator pedal."

    How is this Toyota's fault? Should they give a test to the buyer before selling a car?

    John
  • mikefm58mikefm58 Posts: 2,882
    You beat me to it, double floor mats??? What an idiot. The next thing I'll read is that the brake pedal wouldn't go down and it's Toyota's fault. Why? Gee, maybe because there were several empty beer bottles on the floor and one rolled underneath the brake pedal. Damn crappy Toyota brake design...*sarcasm*...

    This thing has taken on a life of it's own.
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    Just saw many questions regarding brakes, stopping when engine at full throttle.Video - Consumer Reports Auto Engineer does good job I think.- auto comparison great!

    http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/video-hub/cars/safety/how-to-stop-your-car-du- ring-sudden-acceleration/17188412001/48234862001/
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,935
    Good pic of the fix in Toyota Announces Remedy for Sticking Throttle Recall (Edmunds Daily)

    image

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    Toyota does not have brake override systems on any of their models at present. Toyota will be installing Brake Override Systems on all new 2010 models soon or so they stated. Toyota announced all 2011 models will have Brake Override systems on Nov 25, 2009. Brake Override Systems - when acceleration and brakes conflict - engine forced back to idle.. Unexplained out of control accelleration incident complaints should drastically decrease with these systems. Safety issue seem they will be ressolved too. Anyone looking for new Toyota presently may want to make sure their vehicle is equipped with this system. Personally I'd wait just a little - it's coming quite soon.
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    Well said. Video below from Consumers Report Auto Engineer conducted auto comparison for unexplained full throttle acceleration, comparison of a Toyota model present brakes on that model with no brake override system, and a VW model that does have Brake Override.

    Video demonstration of what you just said.

    http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/video-hub/cars/safety/how-to-stop-your-car-du- ring-sudden-acceleration/17188412001/48234862001/
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,536
    sharonki and steve....nice finds. I think the consumer reports video kind of hits the nail on the head with a fundamental flaw in Toyota's system.

    Steve....still not getting how the shim "fix" supposedly makes the accelerator pedal safer, since so many have reported even pulling the pedal with their foot, still didn't stop the acceleration.

    It's my hope and prayer that Toyota has finally found the correct cause, and the correct fix. I just can't see where they have.

    They say "no", it's not an electrical and/or software/firmware issue. Yet, all the evidence points to that.

    After seeing the video with the guy testing floormats, and the strength of the accelerator spring, I don't see how Toyota can make any reasonable claim that it's floormats, in any configuration.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    "..shift from D to N wheneevr you like.."

    Yes, but that doesn't mean, in the end, that the gearbox will disenage from the current gear ratio. The engine/transaxle controlling ECU may not be monitoring the shifter's position switches.

    The spring release drum type clutches within the transaxle may not release due to the HEAVY torque loading. The engine is ROARING at WOT while at the same time you have both feet and all the energy you can muster on the brake pedal. This effect might even be unique to FWD and F/awd vehicles.

    Try to slip a manual transmission out of gear not using the clutch with a heavy torque loading on the gearbox. Pretty damn difficult...!

    On the other hand with no torque loading the gearbox easily slips out of the current gear.
  • "One or two pumps and your brakes are done. You have essential zero vacuum at WOT. "

    well, you proved my point: only an incompetent driver will pump his/her brakes in this situation.

    Maybe that's Darwinism at its best?
  • After having read so much information that my head hurts, I have a couple of conclusions.
    1. It seems that most of the "unintended acceleration" concerns are about wide open throttle. This seems to imply that a stuck throttle would automatically be "wide open", which would not be true in 99% of the situations. I would say that most driving, even on the interstate, is with no more than 1/2 throttle. If the throttle is truly sticking, dealing with a half throttle situation would be much more manageable, certainly not the life or death "wide open throttle". If the engine is going wide open on its own, that is a computer problem that will show back up after the current fixes are in place, and will probably hurt some folks before it is resolved.

    2. The floor mat situation is ludicrous. If someone wants to endanger their life by stacking floor mats, or throwing beer cans or apple cores on the floorboard, Toyota should not be responsible. The original equipment floor mats, properly hooked on the hooks that are provided, will not interfere with the accelerator. You should not have to protect folks from stupid. I will not allow my Toyota dealership to grind away portions of my accelerator pedal as part of a smoke and mirrors fix.
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    Below is Consumers Report analysis of statistics comparing auto manufacturers- Seems Toyota is highest. Ford up there too. Good article for information.
    http://blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2009/12/sudden-unintended-acceleration-sua- -analysis-2008-toyota-lexus-ford-gm.html

    Below are two good videos actually showing/taking apart/ explaining electronic throttle/pedal system, etc. Reveals how computers are quite involved in acceleration. And most of us all know how computers can get bug/glitzes but then can be rebooted back to normal state, and no trace left of bug/glitz. Difficult to get to cause of problem. Seems auto systems do not record many malfunctions within electronics. Excellent info.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHotbtd7HJA&feature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnFp2yLBnNQ

    This is fairly good article about both types of pedals. Also has article of the fix it appears. I have not validated if this is the actual fix though. Still is excellent
    http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/exclusive-ttac-takes-apart-both-toyota-gas-peda- ls/
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,166
    only an incompetent driver will pump his/her brakes in this situation.

    All the driving courses I was sent to with the phone company, said just the opposite. You should pump your brakes in an emergency stop to retain good control. Especially on slippery surfaces. How many of these cases were on ice or snow? Slamming on your brakes on ice is a sure way to go into a spin. I would be willing to bet I have spent as much or more time driving on ice than most of the posters. As shown by the CR video, VW has mastered the system of over riding runaway acceleration. Toyota just needs to get their act together and install it in all the DBW vehicles they have sold. If they cannot figure out how, get a hold of VW engineers.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    "..only an incompetent driver..."

    Or one with lots of experience...

    If I pressed on the brake pedal, HARD, and it didn't seem to immediately "take" then my natural reaction would be to try again. Maybe out of the experience of having master cylinder failures...
  • "Toyota is highest. Ford up there too."

    why don't we hear about those Ford accidents and unsafe Ford vehicles if they are as unsafe as the toyota?

    "most of us all know how computers can get bug/glitzes "

    isn't there a difference between "can get buggy" and "will get buggy"?
  • "my natural reaction would be to try again."

    well, that's the difference between an experienced driver and an incompetent driver: the incompetent one will get overtaken by his "natural" reaction and end up in a ditch somewhere.
  • you may be 'old school'. You should NEVER pump the brakes on ANY of the new vehicles with ABS. Totally defeats the purpose.

    ski
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,166
    Ford was second to Toyota. Toyota still accounts for more accidents and deaths from SUA than all the other automakers combined, over the last 10 years. I agree that Ford should be looking at this and installing some type of brake over-ride. People will be more inclined to reporting these incidents now that it is so public.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,166
    Have you ever driven a 4 wheel drive vehicle on ice with ABS. They disable it now when you go into 4 wheel drive as it causes problems with braking on slippery surfaces. Before that you would touch the brakes on ice and all four wheels lock up sending you out of control. I am not a fan of ABS or any of the other traction control devices. Talk about a waste of money. I may be old school but have 51 years without an accident. Much due to the training the phone company gave us when I went to work for them.
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