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Toyota Halts Sales of Popular Models - Accelerator Stuck Problem Recall



  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,613
    that's my point. the other brands that have been the subject of derision over the years for their recalls are just the same. the actual affected vehicles are very few.
    the numbers of them recalled can be large due to the number sold.
    looking at the number of deaths, there are a lots more Fords out there than Toyota's, so of course the raw number of deaths are going to be higher.
    the Ford/Firestone recall and how it was handled, was the catalyst for the response to these multi brand recalls that have happened since then.
    Toy/Lex is just another brand having to march to that same drummer now.
  • djohnson1djohnson1 Posts: 44
    Gagrice, congrats on your 401k. If you have a lot of stock, might be a good time to sell some and lighten up and diversify more. Take it from an "old timer," diversification is much safer. Ford has wonderful products now, but has a huge, huge debt facing it in the future. Also, the auto union hates to see them making too much money and may go after them. Look for trouble there in the future. Some smart people have said the only reason Ford didn't go bankrupt when GM did is because they had larger lines of credit, but they still gotta pay it back. Index funds are the way to go. For more info, read "A Random Walk Down Wall Street."
    JMHO, Denny
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,845
    I appreciate the advice. Ford is less than 10% of my IRA. My largest holding is FLPSX which has 10 year 10% average. I have considered dumping Ford as it seems greedy to hang on to it. Move more toward bond funds the closer I get to being forced to take some out.

    I don't plan to buy any TM. How many more recalls will surface now that toyota is being watched closely?
  • fezofezo Posts: 9,326
    Interesting Toyota article.

    I've been mostly not bothering taking sides in here because it's gotten like the Hyundai in the luxury market thread - hot opinions but no changing minds.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,038
    > don't plan to buy any TM. How many more recalls will surface now that toyota is being watched closely?

    It's stuff like this that has been surfacing in the toyota discussions elsewhere on Edmunds that should create angst in anyone investing in toyota with the ADRs or buying the vehicle:

    "Took my 2007 Camry SE (17,600 miles) to Toyota dealer service today.
    When going down a steep hill at freeway speeds and applying brakes, steering wheel shakes and car starts shuddering. Serviceman say probably rotors.
    I say "already?" Calls later and tells me a new, improved brake pad has been developed which he recommends replacing. I asked when "new, improved" pad was available? Answer: JUNE 2009. Why am I only hearing about it now that my warranty expired 4 months ago? It was on a technical bulletin but not a safety
    issue so they don't have to inform customers. Oh well, they don't tell us when it's a safety issue until xxxxxpeople die, right? $58. for pads on front; $175 labor;
    $58 pads on back $175 labor. This is my 6th and last Toyota.
    Please don't tell me to go to another dealer; 60 miles down steep hills.
    Just wanted to post this for others and the guy who had his rotors repaired 9 times. BEWARE.
    Leaving here now to go buy a new car. Any suggestions????? "

    This is occurring in the toyota discussions more and more along with the Honda discussions on Odyssey trans problems (surprise?) and in VCM discussions.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,038

    The source of the article is
    93 And Counting
    Michael Fumento, 07.30.10, 07:40 AM EDT
    Forbes Asia Magazine dated August 09, 2010 \

    Hmmmm. An Asian-oriented magazine. I wonder what side he will take? Hmmmm.

    Also, it's funny to have a media magazine criticizing the media for not fact-checking? Where were they on "fact checking" during the last prez campaign!?
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,845
    That article kind of pinpoints the fact that two sides are being taken by the media. Those that want to sell more papers are negative about Toyota. Those that want to sell Toyota advertising are biased in favor of Toyota. I think the findings by the Canadian NHTSA, is more telling than the article leaked to the WSJ and on to hundreds of other media sources.
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 39,936
    hot opinions but no changing minds

    Haaa, you think that happens anywhere on the forums? ;)

    This was a good pair of stories:

    Were we all wrong about Toyota? (

    That was followed by the same columist writing this blog five days later:


    Need help navigating? - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,038
    >Those that want to sell Toyota advertising are biased in favor of Toyota.

    That was going to be my next post! :)
  • fezofezo Posts: 9,326
    hot opinions but no changing minds

    Haaa, you think that happens anywhere on the forums?

    No.. Couldn't be. :blush:

    I just thing some topics seem to have it in spades. This is one of them. The luxury Hyundai thread is another classic.

    I agree on how the media will slant things depending on which side their bread is buttered.
  • sandman_6472sandman_6472 Coral Springs, FLPosts: 2,623
    Could you please e-mail me as I have a couple of questions about Fidelity.

    The Sandman :sick: :shades:

    2014 Hyundai Tuscon SE/2005 Mazda 3s/2008 Hyundai Accent GLS/2009 Nissan Versa SL hatch

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,845
    I tried emailing via Carspace and could not find you.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,038
    He's one of the undercover folks with an underscore... ;)
  • luckysevenluckyseven Posts: 134
    It's funny to see that NHTSA can't find a single valid incident so far to be at Toyota's fault.

    Release of Toyota Documents Blocked, Ex-Official Says

    Since March, the agency has examined 40 Toyota vehicles where unintended acceleration was cited as the cause of an accident, Mr. Person said. NHTSA determined 23 of the vehicles had accelerated suddenly, Mr. Person said.

    In all 23, he added, the vehicles' electronic data recorders or black boxes showed the car's throttle was wide open and the brake was not depressed at the moment of impact, suggesting the drivers mistakenly stepped on the gas pedal instead of the brake, Mr. Person said.

    "The agency has for too long ignored what I believe is the root cause of these unintended acceleration cases," he said. "It's driver error. It's pedal misapplication and that's what this data shows."

    Mr. Person said he believes Transportation Department officials are "sitting on" this data because it could revive criticism that NHTSA is too close to the auto maker and has not looked hard enough for electrical flaws in Toyota vehicles.

    "It has become very political. There is a lot of anger towards Toyota," Mr. Person said. Transportation officials "are hoping against hope that they find something that points back to a flaw in Toyota vehicles."
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    There are at least 4 high profile SUA, UA, incidents, long term incidents, that we are aware of. Those 4 cannot be explained away by the floor mat issue nor the brake/gas pedal confusion. Until NHTSA finds a cause for those it is probably needless to release the report.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,845
    This piece from WSJ is to try and get back some of their credibility. It sounds like this retired NHTSA leaked them the info. And now WSJ needs to cover their behinds. So how much did Mr Person get for the erroneous information? He cannot be stupid enough to leak it for free.

    A Transportation Department spokeswoman, Olivia Alair, said NHTSA is still reviewing data from the Toyota vehicles the agency is examining. "Its review is not yet complete. The investigation remains ongoing," she said.

    A Toyota spokesman declined to comment. A NHTSA spokeswoman did not respond to phone calls and an email seeking comment.

    At the time of his retirement, Mr. Person, 67 years old, was chief of NHTSA's Recall Management Division, which is part of the agency's Office of Defects Investigation. He said he was briefed on the agency's probe into the causes of accidents in which drivers said Toyota vehicles suddenly accelerated on their own, and said he offered his input on the matter to investigators.

    Ms. Alair said Mr. Person "was not involved in any aspect of the ongoing investigation into unintended acceleration."

    Mr. Person said he retired in good standing with the agency. Ms. Alair said she could not comment on personnel matters.

    Maybe Person was forced into retirement for all the previous screw ups with letting Toyota off the hook on recalls. That was his department. I wonder if his Civil Service retirement will be as much as he gets from Toyota for past favors.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,038
    >It's funny to see that NHTSA can't find a single valid incident so far to be at Toyota's fault.

    The statements that they can't find anything recorded in their sorry excuse of an event recorder doesn't mean anything. The last 3 crashes of my Pentium 4 desktop showed no records in the computer's own memory as to the actual cause. It did tell me that it had crashed, however, which is what the toyota and NHSTA folks are saying.

    The fact that the computer doesn't show the brakes were applied doesn't surprise me a bit. Early on that was a complaint: applying the brakes had no effect because the car was hell bent on accelerating. Why should I think the computer record would show the pedal was applied while the accelerator was fully applied--at least in the car computer's info.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,845
    I find it very interesting that the Toyota diagnostic program does not record a WOT condition as a fault code. Yet Toyota claims all kinds of wild assertions about what the EDR is showing. Including 250 on and off depressions of the brakes while the throttle of the Sikes car was wide open. This without a crash to save the data. Toyota knows that No one in the Federal Government is smart enough to refute their claims. So they can say what they want about any given Toyota incident, without fear of being caught.

    The question I want to see answered, will they pull the wool over the Jury's eyes as they have with so many media people?
  • luckysevenluckyseven Posts: 134
    We need to go by cold facts. If by now there is only 4 SUA-UA proved cases per gazillion manufactured Toyota vehicles there is only one explanation behind SUA- UA publicity and whole anti - T. compain, it's a political one. I don't think NHTSA leak is unintended, they just don't have anything to show us. Time will tell...
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,613
    does anyone what equipment is being used to read the EDR data?
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