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Toyota Halts Sales of Popular Models - Accelerator Stuck Problem Recall

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  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    During test my foot was still on accelerator - shifted into neutral. I wanted to try on Waldo Grade going south as quite steep - wanted engine working too. Yes, it worked - but only left it there for about three to five seconds. At least it would shift into neutral at 60 mph.

    My test did not involve accelerator to floor - other foot on brake - shift to neutral. Yes, not brave enough to do this.

    My test is faulty. Feel free to fire away. But did find out would shift neutral at 60. My hope is all falls into place if I have such an emergency.
  • mnfmnf Posts: 404
    Great observation and so true Steve its like a hanging or modern day flogging. Just like in Sports when you become #1 or rise to the top everyone is gunning for you to step on a grape. Toyota stepped on a grape and the line is out the back door and around the corner.

    MNF
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,886
    My guess, in the unlikely chance your accelerator should take off you will be well aware and shift into neutral and bring your car to a safe stop. If nothing else I would hope this has made people aware of this situation and the best way to save your self. I know I was never aware of the defect in modern braking systems.
  • mnfmnf Posts: 404
    2009 Toyota Corolla (myself) and a 2000 Lexus RX300 ( wifes) and still driving it every day concerned yes scared no. I have been telling people that if i didn't own a Toyota the right time to buy is coming. When they get this resolved the HOT deals will come out to get customers back. News and newspapers you cant belive everything you read on who said what when. Each one of the owners or non owners has to come to his own conclusion based on facts. The problem is what are the facts and what are the based on. We may never know.

    Good luck with your Camry.

    MNF
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    Glad to help you. Just passing along any research info I have bookmarked for people to review.
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    CNN had lots of incoming new headlines for awhile there. Lots of turf protection today it seems. Heat is on. Government investigations beginning. Threats of possible fine on Toyata. Etc. I am researching as much as I can. My son helps tremendously.

    Good luck to you.
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    Yes, think I am ready. And hope everyone talking about this encourages others to check and test too.
  • jdm9jdm9 Posts: 38
    I think trying to simulate exactly an unexplained electronic event is impossible, but what you are doing is among the only things you can attempt, to become a better driver and increase your chances of surviving an unexplained acceleration. I do not think ANYONE should try this unless they are expert drivers with expert supervision in situations where there are NO obstacles or other vehichles. Its something that I had my daughter try, and then I had her just turn the key back to the first off position to let her feel how the brakes and the steering become much harder when the motor is shut off. What was really interesting was her reluctance /fear of trying it, which might explain why some folks panic if an electronic failure occurs, and they then subsequently really screw up. However After she tried and saw and felt that it wasnt so bad and that she actually had steering and brakes , she felt much more confident. This I beleive is good driver knowledge for anyone to add to their repertoire, and how WFO you have it when you try depends on your comfort level and the safety of the surrounding situation. Possibly someone can add their comments as to whether they think the computer that controls the WFO will allow you to back the key off one position when you re in an unexplained WFO position because obviously IF it wont allow you to cut the motor by backing off the key one position then learning to feel comfortable doing it is not going to help in an emergency unexplained WFO situation.
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,129
    Heat is on

    Other than the incentives, the other automakers seem to be playing it close to the vest.

    Ford can't say much because they have the same problem with their Transit Connects they sell in China.

    GM can't say much because the Vibe is on the same recall list as the Toyotas. Not to mention being preoccupied with Cobalt steering issues.

    Hyundai better be paying attention to all the Sante Fe reports of similar problems.

    Honda has non-US Fits catching fire because of a faulty switch.

    And there's already been a bit of a backlash over the conquest incentives. (AutoObserver)

    If this pedal thing really winds up being stray electronics or something like that, it could cost all the automakers big bucks to fix their systems.

    Moderator
    Need help navigating? stever@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • jdm9jdm9 Posts: 38
    Your right, if its mechenical and the pedal fix works, no big deal, business as usual, they all have screw ups, however , if it ends up being electronic, the whole works of them are quite inbred so that all or most carmakers would suffer, not just Toyota. I think what we are seeing is, live in a glass house ,,, dont throw stones. Besides no one really wins here. If there is an electronic problem and they admit it , they have big problems. If there is an electronic problem and they have not been forthcoming their problems will magnify. Ironic that it is really no different then life in general.
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    Yes, making sure you could do this on your vehicle is important. At least I feel more comfortable now too. Thank you for sharing your daughters experience. I can most definitely see why she was apprehensive. So happy to hear she too feels in control.

    Is her reaction a good learning lesson for all of us? Maybe help us to understand how frightened people must have been when they had UA???
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,886
    Don't they get the Ford Transit Connects from Turkey? Kind of surprised they use the same throttle control.

    The issue is still what about the Toyotas that did not have a stuck throttle and were SUA electronically? We have one taken to a dealer. The Toyota dealer replaced several components. Do we know which was the culprit? Did Lentz address that smoking gun? That should be the thrust of the NHTSA investigation. Toyota needs to tell the buyers what was stuck wide open with that vehicle. And WHY? Just replacing it does not fix the problem. It only sends the guy down the road with a new component that could fail in the same way. I wonder if Toyota even understands the impact this can have on their sales? Audi learned a lesson and was found innocent. Such is life.
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,129
    It's another CTS pedal, but the news doesn't make clear if it's the one made in Ontario like the US/Toyota ones. That version of the Transit Connect is built there. CTS has plants in China I think.

    Ford Stops Some China Vehicle Production (CBS)

    The NHTSA will probably be hammered as hard as Toyota during the congressional hearings.

    Moderator
    Need help navigating? stever@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    Other than the incentives, the other automakers seem to be playing it close to the vest.

    Ford can't say much because they have the same problem with their Transit Connects they sell in China.

    GM can't say much because the Vibe is on the same recall list as the Toyotas. Not to mention being preoccupied with Cobalt steering issues.

    Hyundai better be paying attention to all the Sante Fe reports of similar problems.

    Honda has non-US Fits catching fire because of a faulty switch.

    And there's already been a bit of a backlash over the conquest incentives. (AutoObserver)

    If this pedal thing really winds up being stray electronics or something like that, it could cost all the automakers big bucks to fix their systems.


    Yeah, but there is a difference here with Toyota as they have been in denial on this issue for 5 years. And we are now learning they did everything thing possible to try and prevent the latest recall from occurring. Shame on Toyota!
  • eliaselias Posts: 1,903
    500k rock solid reliable miles on 5 VW diesels so far,
    plus a few hundred less-reliable miles on 1980s rabbits!

    I've noticed that many media outlets use VW as the comparison/demo for brake-override.

    Obviously the 90hp and 100hp VW diesels can never have a problem with runaway acceleration. (?!)
    More seriously, I can see the safety advocates making a case for limiting hp of cars in USA due to the risk of catastrophic Toyota-like bugs. Yes They Can.
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    Toyota hit by over 100 Prius brake complaints

    TOKYO -- Toyota Motor Corp. has been hit by over 100 complaints in the U.S. and Japan about brake problems with the popular Prius hybrid, the latest in a spate of quality troubles for the automaker as it grapples with massive global recalls.

    The Japanese company's sales are being battered in the U.S. -- Toyota's biggest market -- after recalls of top-selling models to fix a gas pedal that can stick in the depressed position.

    The new Prius gas-electric hybrid, which went on sale in Japan and the U.S. in May 2009, is not part of the recalls that extend to Europe and China, covering nearly 4.5 million vehicles.

    The U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has received about 100 complaints involving the brakes of the Prius new model. Two involved crashes resulting in injuries.

    Japan's transport ministry said Wednesday it has also received 14 complaints since July last year about brake problems with Toyota's new Prius hybrid.

    The 14 complaints included an accident in July 2009, in which a Prius crashed head on into another car at an intersection. Transport ministry official Masaya Ota said two people were slightly injured in the accident.

    "The Prius driver in the accident told police that a brake did not work," Ota said. "Other Prius drivers also complained brakes were not so sharp." The complaints in Japan involve the new Prius model, and the vehicles were all made in Japan, he said.
  • "there has to be 'room' in it to add the additional 'brake overrides the throttle' logic. "

    you rarely produce a mcu with just enough flash for your code. those things are regularly produced so that the flash come in standard size, 32k, 256k, etc. even if the code takes less space than that.

    plus, a brake override, assuming the sensors are already there, will take a few bytes to implement. ask your son about it.

    the difficult part is to test the code under all possible conditions so that it doesn't malfunction.

    that will take some serious time / efforts / resources.
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    Was just looking at the January 2010 auto sales and noticed several Toyota models that were not included in the most recent recall were down, including Lexus and Scion models, fell 15.8 percent for the same period.

    Anyone think that this recall is having a negative impact across all of Toyota and Lexus or why else would those non-recalled models be impacted? :confuse:
  • jdm9jdm9 Posts: 38
    Ill try the shorter version of my previous long winded posts as Ive had few comments and maybe someone can respond. Does anyone know if any of these people that have had an unexplained sudden acceleration tried a) shifting into nuetral or b) turning back the key one position. Surely some of these people must have tried more than just applying the brakes and some must have tried a or b above but I am having trouble finding out what happened if they did. We already know it works in a controlled situation , so my question only concerns reports of what happened in an unexplained sudden acceleration.
  • mikefm58mikefm58 Posts: 2,882
    Anyone think that this recall is having a negative impact across all of Toyota and Lexus or why else would those non-recalled models be impacted?

    Oh absolutely. I'd even go as far as saying Toyota anything, affected / unaffected models, new or used, will take a hit. If I were car shopping, Toyota would not be anywhere near the top, not so much because of safety worries, but because of resale issues in the short term. Demand for anything Toyota is down.

    Question for those in the biz, have you seen auction prices for Toyotas in general taking a hit?
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,064
    Stanley Chesley files for class action suit against Toyota about runaway acceleration and slowness in reporting danger.

    Never one to miss a good class action opportunity, Cincinnati's Stan Chesley is now involved.

    Chesley is a Cincinnati attorney and the article is in the Enquirer, so most of the blog posts after it are from online Enquirer readers.

    In among the raucous posts by believers after the above-linked article, is this one, typical of what the class action is really about:

    This problem started before 2007. My daughter drives a 2005 Corolla and in 2006 she was pulling into a space in a parking garage. As she was pulling in and slowly took her foot off the brake the car shot forward and slammed into the concrete wall. She called me hysterical because the car shot forward so abrubtly, and the airbags did not deploy. She is actually lucky the wall was there and this hadn't happened on the expressway. We had the car towed to a Toyota dealership with $5,000 work of damage. We talked to several reps from Toyota and they claimed that they checked the computer to see if it indicated sudden acceleration, which "they say" did not, but NOW they are questioning the validity of the computer systems in the cars. In addition to this issue, the car didn't have floor mats on the driver's side. This whole story is sounding all too familiar and scares me to death because she still owns this car and drives her family in it. We have owned Toyotas since 1983, and this is totally unbelievable. There have been too many lives lost at this point. Something needs to be done NOW by Toyota bar all cost. Their reputation is on the line right now, and I don't like what I see.
  • dturrdturr Posts: 70
    A further 7,000 Peugeot Citroen cars are being recalled in the UK due to a faulty accelerator problem they share with the stricken Toyotas.

    The Peugeot 107 and Citroen C1 models were produced at the facility the company shares with crisis-hit Toyota in the Czech Republic.

    The move

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1248177/Toyota-recall-Last-wor- ds-father-family-died-Lexus-crash.html#ixzz0eThDCJfv
  • Many here have asserted that those european brands, BMW, MB or VW, have this brake override feature where tapping on the brake will disengage the accelerator. I stated earlier that I could confirm that such feature didn't exist on my 330 and C55.

    i would also add four names to that list of cars that supposed have but actually don't have this "feature", a 530 and a G37x. tapping on the brake does nothing to the accelerator at all.

    two friends of mine tried on their S5 and GL450 and none of those vehicles have this feature that they are supposed to have, per our resident experts here.
  • "If this pedal thing really winds up being stray electronics or something like that, it could cost all the automakers big bucks to fix their systems. "

    it depends on how the driving public wants to take this thing. All software is buggy. the only difference is that the more complicated, the buggier it is.

    if the driving public has zero tolerance for any bug in the software, and the manufacturers would have no choice but to test the auto software as they do with avionics, well, you will end up paying a 737-class price for your Ford Focus.

    if we take a reasonable approach and improve driver education, well, we will end up in a better place.

    my advice to anyone with no tolerance to risk is NOT to live. there literally is no other way out.

    the choice is collectively ours.
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    it depends on how the driving public wants to take this thing.

    If this thing fixes the sudden accelerations where the pedals are not involved, who wouldn't "take this thing" one way and one way only?

    This is Toyota's problem that needs to be addressed.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,064
    >my advice to anyone with no tolerance to risk is NOT to live. there literally is no other way out.

    Are you suggesting suicide if someone doesn't have tolerance for risk?

    Are you suggesting if someone doesn't think software/firmware in a car computer shouldn't be failsafe, they have only one way out?

    I disagree. If there is a problem in the computer handling sensor input, there need to be checks that shut the computer's control down so it doesn't give full throttle acceleration from a dead stop with the accelator pedal untouched, e.g., such as during parking.
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    Oh my...that is definitely not what Toyota needs right now.
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,144
    Shoot, why not? They have cars they can't use but are still required to make payments on them. This is particularly troublesome if it's the only vehicle in the household.
  • mikefm58mikefm58 Posts: 2,882
    I know it sounds brutal, but it boils down to the cost of the fix versus the cost of litigation. The two best examples I can think of are the Ford Pinto exploding gas tank and the Chevy truck exploding gas tank. Those would have required significant vehicle redesign to fix, multiply that by all of those vehicles on the road, and they felt it was cheaper to fight the lawsuits than fix. Quite brutal indeed. Their reputation for quality or lack thereof was not an issue as that takes a hit regardless. But Toyota's hit is different as their reputation for quality really is what sets them apart. The long term fallout for Toyota will be interesting.
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