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Toyota Halts Sales of Popular Models - Accelerator Stuck Problem Recall

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  • lzclzc Posts: 483
    What a buffoon! And, of course, LaHood quickly withdrew his "don't drive" advice, calling it "obviously a misstatement." Even loonier was his suggestion that everyone drive their cars to a Toyota dealer. What would that accomplish, other than clog up the surrounding streets?

    Beating up on Toyota must look pretty attractive to politicians anxious to divert attention from their own failures to someone else.

    Toyota may have a problem with a defective part, but that's less dangerous than politicians with more power than good sense.
  • the answer to all of your qeustions is the same: none.

    we just don't have good information about any of that, which is why we have this mass panic.
  • "It would be utterly stupid IMMHO to use the existing throttle control, engine/transaxle ECU control module, to implement a failsafe for preventing engine run-a-way."

    it depends. there are always advantages and disadvantages with any approach. that's why some people are paid lots of money making those decisions and you aren't.

    "Have a microprocessor "watch" the existing brake fluid pressure sensor and the EFI PWM pulse width."

    again, it depends. I for one wouldn't want anything like that in my car - what if you do want to induce an oversteer in your car through braking and acceleration at the same time? that would be quite unsafe to have your engine throttle reduced to practically zero and you would have missed that sharp turn.

    Again, hopefully the market will dictate what features we collectively want.

    the fiction of "Germans have it so it must be good" is lemming thinking.

    then, that's why Al Gore invented the internet for, right?
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    Poor consumers don't even have accurate numbers of complaints - no official law mandated data base. Some complaints are at DHSTA, some Toyota dealerships, some with news. some have minor issues and not complained, etc.

    Below is one of my bookmaked sites regarding what you were asking. news media do seem to use this site in reports many times. I have a couple others too. Didn't try to find. This site appears to use all UA incidents reported, and appears DHSTA has statistically watered down complaints into categories.- DHSTA statistical analysis design appears to make seem less of problem. Gets confusing.

    http://www.safetyresearch.net/2010/01/29/toyota-unintended-acceleration-complain- ts-update/
  • jdm9jdm9 Posts: 38
    Come on , some of them must have tried putting it in neutral or turning the key back one notch, they all cant have just gone into panic mode and froze except for standing on unresponsive brakes. Alls im hearing is that the brakes didnt work, frightening enough, but you still have the afforementioned 2 options, Maybe (hopefully) the reason we are not hearing about those people is because they actually did not crash after experiencing sudden acceleration. They shut off the key or put it in nuetral and safely pulled over. Those are the folks that I would like to hear from. Any out there?
  • "I am sure you want human safety risks decreased."

    yes, but at what cost? driving is definitely more risky than not driving, does that mean you will stop driving to reduce the human safety risks driving exposes you to?

    most people would say no.

    or are you willing to pay $2K (just pick a number) for this override feature? or your threshold is $20K or $20?

    " it can undeniably be done."

    we don't do a lot of things that we can do, for good reasons sometimes.

    end of the day, each and everyone of us has to make a decision as to what is an acceptable level of risks for us. it is higher for some of us and lower for the rest.

    if brake override is that important, you should have paid the premium for that VW (which supposedly has this override feature).

    so you bought the wrong car, or your assumption about Toyota proved to be wrong.
  • "Come on , some of them must have tried putting it in neutral or turning the key back one notch,"

    on what factual basis can you say that?

    listen, if you want conjectures, you got plenty of them.

    if you want facts, keep looking and stop making assumptions.
  • jdm9jdm9 Posts: 38
    Its not an assumption, Ive tried both and it works under controlled situations, not to suggest that is the same as UA, but under wot turning the key back one notch shuts the motor off and you still have hard steering and brakes to control your glide to the side of the road.
  • jdm9jdm9 Posts: 38
    Thanks for the link.
  • I was just thinking about my commute to and from work the last two days(22 miles one way). Also, I drive a 2010 Camry SE.

    Some events that come to mind:

    Yesterday afternoon a driver decided that he wanted my spot on the Interstate, even though I was beside him. He was driving a Toyota RAV4.

    This morning, a woman blasted through a stop sign in my neighborhood. If I'd been 1/2 second sooner, she would have t-boned me. She was driving a Toyota Sienna.

    Also this morning, a driver pulling a Uhaul trailer was weaving in and out of rush hour traffic cutting others off. He was driving a Toyota Highlander.

    There is a common thread here. They were all driving Toyota vehicles.

    I'm much more concerned about the "loose nut" behind the wheel than I am concerned about UA or my accelerator pedal sticking.

    Just my thoughts.

    Also, a service advisor from my Toyota dealer called this morning. They will not wait for Toyota to send out recall letters. As soon as they have parts available they will call to schedule customer appointments.
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    That could well be GM, aka: Obama Motors, which is struggling to survive.

    Well, a statement like that says enough :confuse:

    My 2010 Prius hasn't received a recall notice, although my understanding is that only Toyota's produced in the US are at risk.

    Get ready cause yours will be up next with the bad brakes or sudden acceleration.

    Given the track record of US built cars over the years in terms of recalls, it would not be a surprise if GM, Chrysler or Ford doesn't discover safety related issues in the coming months.

    Your kidding right? Toyota takes the Grand Prize in Recall; more last year than any other automaker; guess that is what they mean by Toyota Quality.
  • Toyota takes the Grand Prize in Recall; more last year than any other automaker; guess that is what they mean by Toyota Quality.

    Do you have a link or source for this?
  • Karen_CMKaren_CM Posts: 5,018

    Community Manager If you have any questions or concerns about the Forums, send me an email, karen@edmunds.com, or click on my screen name to send a personal message.

  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    Toyota takes the Grand Prize in Recall; more last year than any other automaker; guess that is what they mean by Toyota Quality.

    Do you have a link or source for this?


    Toyota led all automakers with most recalled vehicles in 2009

    And something tells me they will take the title again for 2010 and the way they are going, may take the Grand Price for the Largest Automaker Recall EVER...stay tuned! :lemon:

    The Detroit Free Press reports that there were 15.2 million units recalled this year – nearly double the 8.6 million vehicles that were called back in all of 2008. And the leader of the recall pack was Toyota, with a knee-wobbling 4.87 million cars and trucks recalled due mostly to the Japanese automaker's unintended acceleration issue. Toyota had nine major recalls in all in 2009, with the other big issue coming courtesy of rusting Tundra frames. Toyota took the top spot in recalls for the first time ever this year, which tells you as much about how bad 2009 was for Aichi, Japan-based automaker as it does about its history of making high-quality automobiles.

    This year's second biggest offender? Ford Motor Company. The Blue Oval recalled 4.52 million vehicles to land in second place in the recall rankings, due mainly to the company's ongoing issue with cruise control modules. Without the years-old cruise control issue, Ford would have had posted best year ever. General Motors rounded out the top three, with 2.24 million recalls announced in 2009, thought it is worth noting that the Detroit, MI-based automaker's 17 total recalls was the most of any automaker. Chrysler actually had a good 2009 – at least when it comes to recalls – with just under 600,000 vehicles affected.
  • jdm9jdm9 Posts: 38
    The odds would be against that not to have happened. But once again I just want to hear from any of those people as to whether it worked for them, to gain control of their car after UA. But does it not seem surprising to you that given the certainty of an impending crash that some people would not try shutting off the motor?
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    In 2009, Toyota was after the best selling car and ranked up record sales, however for 2010, there is a slight change of plans...Toyota is going for the record of the Biggest Recall Ever. :sick:
  • But does it not seem surprising to you that given the certainty of an impending crash that some people would not try shutting off the motor?

    Makes sense to me.

    Drivers do make mistakes (I know I have), but it is much easier to blame the car. Especially with all the publicity about Toyota.

    Looks like an ambulance chasers field day!!!
  • "But does it not seem surprising to you that given the certainty of an impending crash that some people would not try shutting off the motor? "

    no. the number of incidents, reported ones at least, is very low (~100?). Of those folks, I don't know the extent of the 'malfunctioning'.

    given the limited number of fatality reported in the news media, i tend to believe that many of those owners involved in the reported incidents got their vehicles under control - through braking probably.

    shutting off the motor is a pretty extreme action, and I would imagine that a driver would only resort to that after s/he had exhausted other means - aka it would take a while for the driver to come to that conclusion, if s/he could remain calm at all.

    and having a pushbutton switch doesn't help in those incidents.
  • sandman_6472sandman_6472 Coral Springs, FLPosts: 2,680
    This "name calling" and trying to top one another is foolish...most of the car companies have had "issues" and they've been resolved...case closed. This nonsense in here is useless...let's all just let Toyota fix the problem and let's move on shall we! There are so many other problems with no solutions in life, focus your energy in a positive way!

    The Sandman :sick: :shades:

    2014 Hyundai Tuscon SE/2005 Mazda 3s/2008 Hyundai Accent GLS/2009 Nissan Versa SL hatch

  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,848
    Karjunkie over in Edmunds Answers found a great link about Audi's sudden acceleration problem.

    Turns out that one of the lawsuits against Audi is going to trial in Chicago soon. 22 years after the original suit was filed (gotta have some appeals in there to liven things up).

    The Swedes, unlike the US, Canada and Japan, blamed Audi's problem on the cruise control.

    (Sandman, is that you? Speak up, I can barely hear you - you sound like a voice in the wilderness :D. Keep it up!).

    Moderator
    Need help navigating? stever@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • fezofezo Posts: 9,359
    I love the conflicting LaHood statements. Looks like he accidentally spoke what he really thought and now has to backtrack because that's not what the feds want us to hear.
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    Someone stole the engine or the wheels?

    No, the 2009 Camry just has this little problem...it likes to suddenly accelerate on its on and currently my dealership doesn't have the parts. To make matters worse, interest in the Camry has plummeted so no one would buy it and Toyota still cannot decide what is the true underlining problem.

    Very poor quality Toyota! :sick: :lemon: :sick: :lemon:
  • kernickkernick Posts: 4,072
    Have a microprocessor "watch" the existing brake fluid pressure sensor and the EFI PWM pulse width. If the brake pressure rises above a certain level and the PWM doesn't decline cognizant with the idle setting within a second or so then use a relay to OPEN the EFI or fuel pump circuit.

    You must be an electrical engineer? I work with a guy who installs the automation systems and Allen-Bradley ladder logic, in our factory equipment. His answer to every design flaw is to add another sensor and more code. Guess what he still has a lot of work after years because there are still flaws, and he's the only one he understands the system right now.

    Do you know electrical code though? And OSHA safety codes. What does an Emergency Stop button do? It kills the energy source to a machine. It disconnects the electricity, air, or fuel that is powering the device. When we hit an E-Stop electricity that is providing signal power is cut; that power was holding a valve open, which is constructed such that springs will close it if there is no power holding it open.

    What's the simplest, most reliable way to stop an engine from running? A mechanical shutoff of the energy supply. Stop the fuel !! The engine will shutdown within a sec. or 2 (instantly in a high pressure DI engine).
  • or he just misspoke.
  • kernickkernick Posts: 4,072
    and having a pushbutton switch doesn't help in those incidents.

    The reaction-time to a an unusual situation can vary from a fraction of a second to a few seconds, as humans process the unexpected information/situation. It depends on the complexity of the situation. The best method to shut something down as established by safety-engineers over years is a push-style button (E-Stop as I mentioned above). We train all our manufacturing personnel in the chemical plant I work in, not to think of what controls they should try in an emergency; no thinking required - push that 1 E-Stop button. The E-Stop button is engineered, sometimes with backups to backups, to shutoff the power.
  • "focus your energy in a positive way! "

    if we did, how could we keep the ambulance chasers employed? they need to feed their families too.

    :)
  • fezofezo Posts: 9,359
    If so that's a heck of a misspeak.
  • "no thinking required - push that 1 E-Stop button. "

    those are big, red/yellow and protruding buttons.

    not those tiny, but nice and flashy button behind the steering wheel that you wouldn't hit if you didn't look kind of buttons.

    buttons aren't buttons.
  • jdm9jdm9 Posts: 38
    According to the following link since 1999 Toyota has had 2200plus reported events, 800 plus crashes and 300 plus injuries and 19 fatalities. Those are the figures I was basing odds on, not around 100. Where did I ever suggest a "pushbutton" , I agree that you need a quick mind to access and decide if shutting off the ignition is the route to go, however given an impending crash ,whats more extreme, crashing or turning the ignition switch back one notch. However the question is still does anyone know if the computer that is responsible during a UA will allow turning back the ignition switcth one notch to shut off the motor. That is my only question and you seem to be missing that point.

    http://www.safetyresearch.net/2010/01/29/toyota-unintended-acceleration-complain- ts-update/
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