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Toyota Halts Sales of Popular Models - Accelerator Stuck Problem Recall

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  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    Transportation chief says administration ‘will hold Toyota’s feet to the fire’

    Can we really trust Toyota at this point? I don't think so. Haven't we all been through this enough already?? :lemon:

    Toyota issued a statement urging consumers to take any vehicles experiencing problems with the accelerator pedal to a dealership for an immediate fix.

    But it also said that the problem did not appear to "occur suddenly," suggesting drivers would experience warning signs before a pedal became stuck.

    "Our message to Toyota owners is this -- if you experience any issues with your accelerator pedal, please contact your dealer without delay. If you are not experiencing any issues with your pedal, we are confident that your vehicle is safe to drive," the company said in a statement.
  • kernickkernick Posts: 4,072
    ...let's all just let Toyota fix the problem and let's move on shall we!

    That's an interesting attitude. Similarly, did you think that 1) Exxon should be left alone when the Exxon-Valdez incident occurred, or 2) that the maker of Tylenol - when they need a recall, should just decide what's best practice?

    Society needs to continue to support the investigation of these issues, and support knowledge and procedures to minimize the probability and effects of future product issues.

    There are too many unethical people and companies to allow companies to police themselves!

    There are so many other problems with no solutions in life, focus your energy in a positive way!

    If people didn't demand improvement or resolution of negative issues, then you would have work environments and products injuring and killing millions more each year. Who was that U.S. author who wrote the books of what factory life was like in the 19th or early 20th centuries?
  • one of the earlier links provided by someone shows an analysis (by edmunds?) for 2008 model year - to isolate from the mass hysteria / copycat thing. and I think on that list Toyota had 54 (?) incidents for 2008 MY vehicles.

    "however given an impending crash ,whats more extreme, crashing or turning the ignition switch back one notch."

    any sane person in that situation (crash is about to happen) would be spending all his/her efforts EXCLUSIVELY on avoiding a crash at all costs. Only those denser than a rock would be trying to figure out how to shut off an engine in that situation.

    "However the question is still does anyone know if the computer that is responsible during a UA will allow turning back the ignition switcth one notch to shut off the motor. That is my only question and you seem to be missing that point. "

    I don't know what kind of switches Toyota uses then but if it is just a turn-key mechanism, the only thing preventing you from turning the key back one notch is you. No computer involved.
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    First of all thanks for addressing & responding.

    (1)Costs - to have my auto flashed if brake override update available for my vehicle is questionable but may range from minimal - to $800+. Since my vehicle is Toyota I would can only guess cost would be lower range. Also since Toyota would actually own computer program - hope this consumer cost would be reflective of this fact. Would I spend $800 - yes. But this is what I would do.
    (2)You not wanting a brake override is your own personal decision. We all have a right for our opinions. Thanks for letting me know.
    (3)I own a 2006 RAV4 and am happy with my little vehicle. I paid cash for vehicle. I selected RAV4 because it suited my own personal needs. I needed room for two large wire kennels as I have two hunting dogs & go hunting, wanted good mileage, wanted reliability.etc. Money was not an issue or why I got a RAV4. I looked at all available SUV's. Did I know of issues with UA? No. I bought Dec, 2006. Will I keep my RAV4 - yes.
    (4)Do I want to see if I can have brake override system flashed into my vehicle if available? Yes, I do. And since my vehicle is not being recalled I would have to pursue. As for recall models I am not sure what Toyota will be doing for sure. Have no idea if systems will be automaticaly flashed into autos?? Rumors were out there some recall models would get. Not sure if this is a fact. This is just my own personal decision. Others can make their own decisions regarding what they would like to do. They may feel using "how to stop your vehicle in UA incident" sufficient.
    (5)RISKS - you are quite correct we must all decide what are our levels of risk tolerance.exposure. . . .
    (6)VW - sorry I don't particularly care for VW at present. And models would not be what I prefer and would not meet my present needs. .
    (7)Brake override systems - Toyota has already announced Nov. 2009 they will be installing on all their models in 2011. Maybe sooner. This is a Toyota decision. I applaud Toyota. But they did have to do something. Toyota had 40% of complaints. I am only hoping I may be able to purchase an update flashing with this feature for my auto.
    (8)Toyota wrong car?? So far - my opinion is no. Is great for me -even with a 4 cylinder - even though some say "lacks power." Works great - and since can still climb Waldo Grade going 65mph at 3rpm - is fine for me. My son is polite, but know it probably drives him crazy to drive.
    (9)UA - personally would like to see UA complaints finally addressed by all auto manufacturers & DHSTA, and effectively managed with a resulting decrease of incidents. Autos now full of electronics. With this comes the intermittant glitzes. And no trace left. And may not happen again. etc. etc.
    (10)RECALL - objectively and personally would have liked to have seen Toyota immediately be more pro-active with media releases. Are they being totally upfront - can not honestly and objectively say for sure. None of us will ever know for sure it appears - all auto manufacturers investigations/analysis information is proprietary. DHSTA has relied always upon auto manufacturers investigations. Etc, etc, etc. Hope we all review the unraveling of facts, research well, and keep up with the news. Yeah - may get some of the other manufacturers that have higher complaints also - address as well.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,912
    The Ford cruise control fix may be the largest by number. I cannot find any deaths related. Toyota has at least 19 deaths and probably more that were not attributed properly. Dead people don't get a chance to tell about their car racing out of control.

    I took my 99 Ranger in for the cruise control fix. It was a wire with two connectors and a fusible link. I had never heard about the recall until I got the letter in the mail. Took the service manager less than 30 seconds to do the fix.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,665
    Seriously, you sound like a broken record.

    We KNOW you are doing EVERYTHING iun your power to drag Toyota down or "dance on it's grave" as our host pointed out.

    We get the message, seriously, and trying to further scare people is like pouring gas on a fire.
  • kernickkernick Posts: 4,072
    I just had my washing machine repaired the other day. I have all these switches I can turn the washer do all sorts of things. The switches are connected to a computer-board. Well for some reason after 7 years the computer-board went bad; they do that after so many thermal-cycles, dust, and electricity-surges.

    On Sun. I was turning that switch to get the washer to spin, I unplugged it to reboot the system ... no good. Basically every switch tied to that computer board is useless. It can be a hardware or software issue with machines that make you switches, or keyboard/mouse useless. Similarly turning a key in that ignition switch is not a very good solution if you have control-system problems/lockup.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,874
    Why are you knocking your own car in a public forum? If you ever do sell it you might get sued by the buyer for knowingly selling them a dangerous piece of junk !!

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    Here is Consumer Reports Auto Engineer Auto comparison between Toyota and VW for UA incidents - how to stop auto

    http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/video-hub/cars/safety/how-to-stop-your-car-du- ring-sudden-acceleration/17188412001/48234862001/
  • "What's the simplest, most reliable way to stop an engine from running?"

    Short of an air strike, I'd say using a .50 BMG round through the block. It works for the military.

    John
  • I can see NRA supporting that idea: mandatory ownership and carriage of high power military grade rifles / machines in every vehicle.

    :)
  • 'Similarly turning a key in that ignition switch is not a very good solution if you have control-system problems/lockup. '

    that's the problem with computers / software: they are function rich, and bug rich at the same time. it is hard to debug them all.

    a typical cpu die is tested may be up to 15% combinations. Doing a 100% combination testing would have taken hundreds of years, for a run-off-the-mill cpu.
  • 'First of all thanks for addressing & responding. '

    my point is that if brake override really were that important to you, you should have bought a car that is known to have such a feature engineered into it, be it a VW or whatever.

    Toyota never advertised that it had that feature on your car and yet you bought it any way.

    Your action spoke much louder than your words about how important such a feature was to you then.

    If you realize that you really should have had it then, well, that's your mistake not knowing your own needs better and earlier.
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    Well said. We should all be interested in human safety. We are certainly affected.

    UA has been issue for long time. UA in and of itself is a high exposure safety risk.

    I would like to see all manufacturers address & am supporter of implementing Brake Override Systems. Toyota will be installing all 2011 models, and maybe sooner. Several manufacturers already have - complaints low.
  • "We should all be interested in human safety."

    that's exactly why we take risks.
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,228
    I love the conflicting LaHood statements. Looks like he accidentally spoke what he really thought and now has to backtrack because that's not what the feds want us to hear.

    I think he's a politican in training - he's at flip-flop 101 stage right now. :P

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    Need help navigating? stever@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    If you ever do sell it you might get sued by the buyer for knowingly selling them a dangerous piece of junk !!

    LOLOL Sell it? Are you kidding? Who would buy a Toyota at this point? If they recommend you don't drive it, do you really think anyone would want to even if you gave it away? :confuse: :confuse:
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    that's exactly why we take risks.

    Yes, I definitely agree that be the case when anyone gets into a Toyota now a days. They went from be above all other automakers to one of the most unsafe cars on the road today. :sick:
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    Whoops. I apologize if I did not explain myself well. This is all new for me. I was unaware of brake override systems when I bought RAV4. Most average consumers are not even aware autos have this feature. That included me at that time. I was looking at reliability ratings, etc. by different agencies when I evaluated my purchase.

    Since this all started, my investigations on UA , etc.- became big supporter of these systems.

    Appears Toyota likes as well, since they announced Nov, 2009 they were putting on all 2011 models. I am very happy about this. This announcement before recalls.

    And thus, if update is available I would gladly pay to get flash for my auto. Why - over last six months I have had intermittant unexplaineed minor surges aceleration. All quite manageable, and can not verify cause .May be unrelated.

    Now - just my personal preference.
  • "Who would buy a Toyota at this point?"

    the smart ones?
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    To be honest, I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy of buying a new Toyota with all the cover-up they are involved with. This story is just starting to unfold and its just not worth putting anyone's life at risk.
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    Thanks for your opinion
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,744

    Can we really trust Toyota at this point? I don't think so. Haven't we all been through this enough already?


    I find nothing to applaud Toyota about, but this is like a feeding frenzy. Auto companies have done worse. I'm thinking these posts are becoming worse than the problems. Are you UAW on a publicity campaign?
  • don't worry about your enemies: they are smarter than that.
  • the same to you, :)
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    I loved your mention of washing machines!!! I am smiling. Ha, reminds me of how I managed to keep my dishwasher going for 17 years. And was still going when I got my one. Yes, glitz in computer board.
  • The concept of brake override was meaningless to many of us till we discovered we didn't completely control the acceleration process with the gas pedal. We didn't know the cars had an electronic throttle, so potential ways of circumventing unknown problems with them never occurred to us.
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    Auto companies have done worse

    REALLY? From the one who has built their reputation on quality and by doing so, attempted to set above all other automakers. Now reality hits where their cars are unsafe and they were forced to stop selling their cars. When did that happen last? And to make matters worst, they had more recalls than any other automaker.

    Its not funny, but in some ways it is hysterical, as I and others find them now to be a laughing stalk. Guess you won't EVER hear someone again say they buy Toyota for it's quality. Come to think of it, not really sure what would then be the purpose of buying a Toyota in today's time.

    The same mentality held for Toyota management by trying to ignore the problems and for some reason then think they would just go way. Toyota allowed their image to develop into an arrogant, sad state and that was obvious with how they chose initially to handle the recall until they were forced to as they would not comply.

    And for the die hards that still view Toyota as bullet proof, that is exactly how Toyota managed to create this fabricated view on their quality. Long and behold, there quality is worse than most of their competition. :cry:
  • " This is all new for me. "

    that's my point. anything man-made will have flaws. some of them we know of, others we don't know yet, and then others we may never know (aka the knowable unknowns vs. unknowable unknowns).

    so whenever you acquire something, you are taking a risk that a) it has flaws; and b) it doesn't perform up to your current expectation or future expectation.

    in this case, your expectation moved: from being unaware of this feature to wanting this feature in your car.

    it is not reasonable to go back to the vendor (in this case Toyota) to demand a piece of goods they never advertised to you when you bought the car from them.

    Now, there is a certain level of merchantability that Toyota has to deliver - under which they are being forced to recall and fix those vehicles.

    But that merchantability shouldn't be and isn't the basis for you to demand something Toyota never warranted.

    I don't own a Toyota but I just find this whole fiasco funny, and so reflective of us collectively to that point that it is deeply saddening.
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,228
    From the one who has built their reputation on quality and by doing so

    How did that slogan go? Quality is Job 1?

    Or was that some other outfit...

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