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Toyota Halts Sales of Popular Models - Accelerator Stuck Problem Recall

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Comments

  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,754
    Auto companies have done worse

    REALLY?


    Ford's lawyers said it was cheaper to let a few people burn up that fix the Pinto. Much worse, unless you have evidence that you have not presented.

    Boeing had 737's with rudder problems that killed 100's of people. Airbus may have a pitot problem that crashed a plane over the Atlantic. I'm not apologizing for Toyota, and they have made mistakes -- I'm saying your posts are all out of proportion to the problem, attempting to whip everybody into a frenzy.
  • delthekingdeltheking Posts: 1,152
    Folks,dont feed the cable pigs !! :P Mass hysteria,baseless allegations,senseless paronoia-- ultimately things willsettle down ! ;)
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    From the one who has built their reputation on quality and by doing so

    How did that slogan go? Quality is Job 1?


    No, wrong outfit, it was the one with the tagline..."Suddenly Moving Forward"
  • Ford had the slogan: Quality is Job 1

    Now, the question to that is: was that their slogan when they had exploding Pintos? ;)
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    Ford's lawyers said it was cheaper to let a few people burn up that fix the Pinto.

    True, Ford has issues with the Explorer and then there was the Pinto. The difference is Toyota, not Ford, built the supremacy on quality claiming to be 2nd to none; the arrogant attitude is what this involves. Every other automaker has had their ups and down and no one has ever disputed that, but when it comes to Toyota, many of always viewed it as the god child.

    Then it was considered acceptable even when Toyota tried to cover-up these issue for the past 5 years and continued even when all of this broke; it was the driver, it was the supplier, etc.

    So what is being missed is the pedestal that Toyota put itself on and too many consumer falling into the same trap. Sure, there will also view that this is not Toyota's fault, they have no responsibility, and it will be the same ones who will only own a Toyota for rest of their life.

    For the rest of American, Toyota perceived image quality has finally spoken for itself and indicated it is no better than GM, Ford, etc. Those die-hards always defended their actions by, "Oh, but it is a Toyota", the best quality in the industry, and flawless and worth paying the extra thousands of dollars over the competition.

    Just like Ford who managed to get over the Explorer issue, Toyota WILL NEVER be the same and WILL NEVER be able to be viewed the same. The die-hards? Sure they will always be there, but much like Ford, Toyota has finally become just another automaker with nothing unique to make them stand out in the competition.
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    I sure didn't. I talked with my son when this all started, and that was first thing he asked me. Did I have brake override system? Then I was off researching the next day. Have learned alot. Have3 spoken with my son multiple times. Since he does the actual developemnt/engineering auto computer software professionally - got lots of help undertanding. Happy to hear I was not the only one.
  • revitrevit Posts: 476

    Now, the question to that is: was that their slogan when they had exploding Pintos?

    Cannot recall, as that was 32 year ago...talk about living in the past. In addition, I guess there are just some who cannot even see what Toyota has done and prefer denial. Even better is making the quality comparison of a Toyota Camry to a Pinto. Now how sad is that? LMAO :shades:

    For those in denial, maybe you need to listen to this a couple of times:
    How Sad...Toyota Should Be Ashamed Of Their Actions
  • Somehow I knew that was the case.

    Maybe "stirring the pot" is a form of recreation for some.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,754
    Cannot recall, as that was 32 year ago...talk about living in the past. In addition, I guess there are just some who cannot even see what Toyota has done and prefer denial. Even better is making the quality comparison of a Toyota Camry to a Pinto. Now how sad is that?

    Let's agree to disagree. You wanted to know which auto companies had done worse than Toyota, so you invited the comparison. How sad is THAT? Beware what you ask for, or you might get it. ;)
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    You wanted to know which auto companies had done worse than Toyota, so you invited the comparison.

    More realistic would had been a comparison in the past couple of years, you had to go back 32 years? Again, living in the past is the easy thing to do. ;) Oh, just in case for some recent and relative information:

    2009 Chevy Malibu - N. American Car of the Year
    2010 Ford Hybrid Fusion - N. American Car of the Year
    Buick - top or near top of JD Powers' customer satisfaction survey past few years
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    Gosh - I was sticking up for Toyota. You must have read only Milwood's comment which may have made it appear I wasn't.

    If that was your understanding also. I do apologize.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,251
    >most of the car companies have had "issues" and they've been resolved...case closed. This nonsense in here is useless...let's all just let Toyota fix the problem and let's move on shall we!

    Would you mind going to some GM discussions and reminding people "most of the car companies have had "issues" and they've been resolved...case closed. This nonsense in here is useless...let's all just let Toyota fix the problem and let's move on shall we!". And make that include needing some financial help to tide the company over.
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    image

    NHTSA mulling Toyota fines for delayed recall

    $16.4 million. That's the maximum amount the Department of Transportation (DOT) can fine an automaker for failing to recall a defective vehicle in a timely manner. And according to a recent report, the Feds could be pursuing a multimillion-dollar fine – the sum, yet to be disclosed – due to the Toyota recall.

    The largest civil penalty ever imposed was handed down to General Motors when a windshield wiper on 581,344 SUVs wasn't dealt with in accordance to the DOT's regulations. Although no automaker has ever incurred the maximum penalty, judging by Secretary Ray LaHood's recent comments about Toyota's handling of the matter ("While Toyota is taking responsible action now, it unfortunately took an enormous effort to get to this point."), it's not so much a matter of when as it is how much.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,890
    Sure they will always be there, but much like Ford, Toyota has finally become just another automaker with nothing unique to make them stand out in the competition.

    Interesting comment about Ford, given that sales data and consumer opinion suggest otherwise. If you look at % change for YTD sales over 2009, Ford is killing the domestic market (and most imports too), and they happen to have the top-selling pickup. They must be doing something that attracts consumers versus the competition.

    If Ford can do it, why not Toyota?

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  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,724
    there is an 'open letter' from Toyota to their customers.
    I'm not one, so I didn't read it. ;)
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    Oh, oh somehow these reply clicks on this site seem to maybe have slight glitz too. Your click was also available elsewhere.

    I had responded to you earlier and now see you reponded my message attempting to explain.

    Glad someone understood me.

    Thanks. Best to you.
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    Ford has had some impressive sales lately and their upcoming models ought to continue the same. The difference with Toyota is the attitude they try to project of being superior to all other automakers. Granted Ford excels, but it is a totally different mentality to it.

    Then when this problem started to unravel with Toyota, they had the nerve initially to blame the customer, then it was the floor mats, then it was the pedals, now its the electronics, whats next?

    Nissan, Honda, or any of the others in my opinion operate in that same manner of nearly being above the law. Something that once again Toyota attempted by resisting the recall...maybe now we are being to learn why.
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    Toyota is going no where. I am tickled they implemented brake override system for all models starting 2011, maybe even earlier. Their stats for UA will go way down. The end result should be a win- win for Toyota and owners/consumers, but guess to be honest and objective - still ways to go- pending investigation. This has been a bumpy road. Lots of negative publicity.

    Ford is coming back it seems. Saw the statistics in news.

    I am hoping a brake override system update might be avaliable for me to purchase and have flashed into my 2006 RAV4.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,724
    back in the 70's the government was more worried about 5 mph crashes than 70 mph crashes.
    run a '73 pinto into a pole @ 5 mph and do the same with a new Camry (or just about any other currently produced car) and see which one ends up with more damage. :surprise:
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    Where is the open letter???
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    Yes, we have dealt with these very same issues in our medical clinic setting. Statistics seem to support concept. Human reactions in emergency situations must be takien into consideration.
  • The winky should have showed you that the question was rhetorical and that it was tongue-in-cheek. AND it was not directed at you, but in response to the mod's use of that particular tag line. I'm wasn't trying to make a quality comparison between the Pinto and the Camry - I didn't mention Toyota at all.
  • mnfmnf Posts: 404
    Whats new just the last two weeks Senators, Cabinet members spoke out of place or but there foot in there mouth. Why should he be any differant but thats not some people want to hear.

    MNF
  • mnfmnf Posts: 404
    Careful...... JD Powers also praised Daewoo at one time

    MNF
  • that's exactly why we take risks.

    "Yes, I definitely agree that be the case when anyone gets into a Toyota now a days. They went from be above all other automakers to one of the most unsafe cars on the road today."

    You take a risk when you get out of bed every morning.

    Go out and drive that Camry. You'll enjoy it. The risk will give you a rush!!!

    Or give it to me. I'll even come and pick it up!!!!
  • kernickkernick Posts: 4,072
    I design processes in factories that incorporate mxers that turn at more than 2,000 rpm, use 480V service, use air to move materials. We have had instances where someone has gotten clothing caught in a machine, or a spill of flammable liquid was occurring, and we may have workers who are just being trained.

    In all cases we setup the equipment such that a single button will trigger things to close. Basically think of an E-Stop as the props holding a sliding door up in a hallway. The E-Stop "kicks the props out" and the door slams shut. Now picture if that door is in the fuel-line heading into the engine. Let the door shut and the fuel system losses any pressure, and the engine immediately coughs and shutsdown.

    In most of the valves we use, a power source holds the valve open, while springs in the valve are constantly trying to close it. The E-Stop kills the power, and the springs close the valve. Simple and fool-proof.

    Machine vs. fool-proof designs. An equipment supplier once provided my company with a machine that has sensors that look at a container with some optical sensors and then rotates the container to be right-side up. Works fine most of the time, until a sensor gets a little dust on it, or gets misaligned, or the CPU locks-up, and the mechanism sometimes can get jammed. A lot of relays, sensors and some moving parts. I didn't like these occassional problems and instead developed a peg system. The container is dropped in a chute that centers the container on a piece of clothes-hanger. The closed end of the container is heavier. The container always tips to the heavier side (Until a quantum-theory failure of gravity occurs :P ). Heavier side down = right-side-up! Much simpler and reliable then this over-engineered machine that was built.

    I think in general we're going beyond "reasonable" with making our appliances too complex in hardware and software.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,020
    The letter is meaningless. They have not addressed the real problems. They know they have some bugs in their control firmware. They are buying time hoping people will believe that it is the throttle control and the mats at fault. The Feds need to keep their feet to the fire until they resolve the problems with the cars on the road. Then they can go back to building and selling cars people feel safe in. They better hurry as it is spreading around the World like a cancer.

    Toyota recalls 180,000 British vehicles as safety fears accelerate

    For six weeks Catherine Block struggled to control her Toyota Aygo. Without warning, the silver car would accelerate even though her foot was not on the pedal. Sometimes the burst of speed would last seconds, on other occasions several minutes, taking her over the speed limit and posing a potential danger to others.

    “It would start accelerating by itself for no reason. It gradually got worse and worse,” said Ms Block, 28, an MA student in international relations.

    “It felt like holding on to a horse that was trying to bolt. When the problem happened it felt like I was trying to hold it back. It was frightening.”

    Mechanics were unable to solve the phantom acceleration although she made several visits to her Toyota dealer.


    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/article7014247.ece
  • berriberri Posts: 4,202
    I think you have to keep it in perspective. IIRC Toyota has a 1/50,000 report incidence of UA which is a very small fraction of a percentage point. Ford was next with 1/65,000. I think its something we need to be aware of and despite the hysteria the media has given us a good refresher course on what to do if it occurs, just like we got a refresher on how to handle a blowout after the Explorer fiasco. BUT, Toyota better be very sure the shim is the solution because if it keeps occuring more frequently than its competitors it has the potential to do some longer term damage to the company and its vehicle resale value. I still believe Toyota would be smart to program a brake override as a precaution on these vehicles and think that would make its customers more confidant at a relatively small cost to the company.

    I find it interesting that after NHTSA was asleep at the wheel and suddenly had to wake up and dig into this stuff they are starting to get concerned about possible sensor issues on newer cars, and not just Toyota. I wonder if they are finding something, or some possibility, that is driving this new found interest? Frankly, all car manufacturers may be wise to get into brake override in a hurry. Technology may be accelerating at a pace that exceeds manufacturer's capabilty of assessing risk.
  • - :confuse: ---------------------
    Toyota denies problems often--I know someone who had
    many problems and Toyota DENIED them all !!!
    --
    He sued and won in arbitration under the LEMON LAW
    and I read they deny many problems on these TOYOTA Forums.
    -------------- :lemon: -----------
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