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Toyota Halts Sales of Popular Models - Accelerator Stuck Problem Recall

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  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 39,993
    Karjunkie over in Edmunds Answers found a great link about Audi's sudden acceleration problem.

    Turns out that one of the lawsuits against Audi is going to trial in Chicago soon. 22 years after the original suit was filed (gotta have some appeals in there to liven things up).

    The Swedes, unlike the US, Canada and Japan, blamed Audi's problem on the cruise control.

    (Sandman, is that you? Speak up, I can barely hear you - you sound like a voice in the wilderness :D. Keep it up!).

    Moderator
    Need help navigating? stever@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • fezofezo Posts: 9,328
    I love the conflicting LaHood statements. Looks like he accidentally spoke what he really thought and now has to backtrack because that's not what the feds want us to hear.
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    Someone stole the engine or the wheels?

    No, the 2009 Camry just has this little problem...it likes to suddenly accelerate on its on and currently my dealership doesn't have the parts. To make matters worse, interest in the Camry has plummeted so no one would buy it and Toyota still cannot decide what is the true underlining problem.

    Very poor quality Toyota! :sick: :lemon: :sick: :lemon:
  • kernickkernick Posts: 4,072
    Have a microprocessor "watch" the existing brake fluid pressure sensor and the EFI PWM pulse width. If the brake pressure rises above a certain level and the PWM doesn't decline cognizant with the idle setting within a second or so then use a relay to OPEN the EFI or fuel pump circuit.

    You must be an electrical engineer? I work with a guy who installs the automation systems and Allen-Bradley ladder logic, in our factory equipment. His answer to every design flaw is to add another sensor and more code. Guess what he still has a lot of work after years because there are still flaws, and he's the only one he understands the system right now.

    Do you know electrical code though? And OSHA safety codes. What does an Emergency Stop button do? It kills the energy source to a machine. It disconnects the electricity, air, or fuel that is powering the device. When we hit an E-Stop electricity that is providing signal power is cut; that power was holding a valve open, which is constructed such that springs will close it if there is no power holding it open.

    What's the simplest, most reliable way to stop an engine from running? A mechanical shutoff of the energy supply. Stop the fuel !! The engine will shutdown within a sec. or 2 (instantly in a high pressure DI engine).
  • or he just misspoke.
  • kernickkernick Posts: 4,072
    and having a pushbutton switch doesn't help in those incidents.

    The reaction-time to a an unusual situation can vary from a fraction of a second to a few seconds, as humans process the unexpected information/situation. It depends on the complexity of the situation. The best method to shut something down as established by safety-engineers over years is a push-style button (E-Stop as I mentioned above). We train all our manufacturing personnel in the chemical plant I work in, not to think of what controls they should try in an emergency; no thinking required - push that 1 E-Stop button. The E-Stop button is engineered, sometimes with backups to backups, to shutoff the power.
  • "focus your energy in a positive way! "

    if we did, how could we keep the ambulance chasers employed? they need to feed their families too.

    :)
  • fezofezo Posts: 9,328
    If so that's a heck of a misspeak.
  • "no thinking required - push that 1 E-Stop button. "

    those are big, red/yellow and protruding buttons.

    not those tiny, but nice and flashy button behind the steering wheel that you wouldn't hit if you didn't look kind of buttons.

    buttons aren't buttons.
  • jdm9jdm9 Posts: 38
    According to the following link since 1999 Toyota has had 2200plus reported events, 800 plus crashes and 300 plus injuries and 19 fatalities. Those are the figures I was basing odds on, not around 100. Where did I ever suggest a "pushbutton" , I agree that you need a quick mind to access and decide if shutting off the ignition is the route to go, however given an impending crash ,whats more extreme, crashing or turning the ignition switch back one notch. However the question is still does anyone know if the computer that is responsible during a UA will allow turning back the ignition switcth one notch to shut off the motor. That is my only question and you seem to be missing that point.

    http://www.safetyresearch.net/2010/01/29/toyota-unintended-acceleration-complain- ts-update/
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    Transportation chief says administration ‘will hold Toyota’s feet to the fire’

    Can we really trust Toyota at this point? I don't think so. Haven't we all been through this enough already?? :lemon:

    Toyota issued a statement urging consumers to take any vehicles experiencing problems with the accelerator pedal to a dealership for an immediate fix.

    But it also said that the problem did not appear to "occur suddenly," suggesting drivers would experience warning signs before a pedal became stuck.

    "Our message to Toyota owners is this -- if you experience any issues with your accelerator pedal, please contact your dealer without delay. If you are not experiencing any issues with your pedal, we are confident that your vehicle is safe to drive," the company said in a statement.
  • kernickkernick Posts: 4,072
    ...let's all just let Toyota fix the problem and let's move on shall we!

    That's an interesting attitude. Similarly, did you think that 1) Exxon should be left alone when the Exxon-Valdez incident occurred, or 2) that the maker of Tylenol - when they need a recall, should just decide what's best practice?

    Society needs to continue to support the investigation of these issues, and support knowledge and procedures to minimize the probability and effects of future product issues.

    There are too many unethical people and companies to allow companies to police themselves!

    There are so many other problems with no solutions in life, focus your energy in a positive way!

    If people didn't demand improvement or resolution of negative issues, then you would have work environments and products injuring and killing millions more each year. Who was that U.S. author who wrote the books of what factory life was like in the 19th or early 20th centuries?
  • one of the earlier links provided by someone shows an analysis (by edmunds?) for 2008 model year - to isolate from the mass hysteria / copycat thing. and I think on that list Toyota had 54 (?) incidents for 2008 MY vehicles.

    "however given an impending crash ,whats more extreme, crashing or turning the ignition switch back one notch."

    any sane person in that situation (crash is about to happen) would be spending all his/her efforts EXCLUSIVELY on avoiding a crash at all costs. Only those denser than a rock would be trying to figure out how to shut off an engine in that situation.

    "However the question is still does anyone know if the computer that is responsible during a UA will allow turning back the ignition switcth one notch to shut off the motor. That is my only question and you seem to be missing that point. "

    I don't know what kind of switches Toyota uses then but if it is just a turn-key mechanism, the only thing preventing you from turning the key back one notch is you. No computer involved.
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    First of all thanks for addressing & responding.

    (1)Costs - to have my auto flashed if brake override update available for my vehicle is questionable but may range from minimal - to $800+. Since my vehicle is Toyota I would can only guess cost would be lower range. Also since Toyota would actually own computer program - hope this consumer cost would be reflective of this fact. Would I spend $800 - yes. But this is what I would do.
    (2)You not wanting a brake override is your own personal decision. We all have a right for our opinions. Thanks for letting me know.
    (3)I own a 2006 RAV4 and am happy with my little vehicle. I paid cash for vehicle. I selected RAV4 because it suited my own personal needs. I needed room for two large wire kennels as I have two hunting dogs & go hunting, wanted good mileage, wanted reliability.etc. Money was not an issue or why I got a RAV4. I looked at all available SUV's. Did I know of issues with UA? No. I bought Dec, 2006. Will I keep my RAV4 - yes.
    (4)Do I want to see if I can have brake override system flashed into my vehicle if available? Yes, I do. And since my vehicle is not being recalled I would have to pursue. As for recall models I am not sure what Toyota will be doing for sure. Have no idea if systems will be automaticaly flashed into autos?? Rumors were out there some recall models would get. Not sure if this is a fact. This is just my own personal decision. Others can make their own decisions regarding what they would like to do. They may feel using "how to stop your vehicle in UA incident" sufficient.
    (5)RISKS - you are quite correct we must all decide what are our levels of risk tolerance.exposure. . . .
    (6)VW - sorry I don't particularly care for VW at present. And models would not be what I prefer and would not meet my present needs. .
    (7)Brake override systems - Toyota has already announced Nov. 2009 they will be installing on all their models in 2011. Maybe sooner. This is a Toyota decision. I applaud Toyota. But they did have to do something. Toyota had 40% of complaints. I am only hoping I may be able to purchase an update flashing with this feature for my auto.
    (8)Toyota wrong car?? So far - my opinion is no. Is great for me -even with a 4 cylinder - even though some say "lacks power." Works great - and since can still climb Waldo Grade going 65mph at 3rpm - is fine for me. My son is polite, but know it probably drives him crazy to drive.
    (9)UA - personally would like to see UA complaints finally addressed by all auto manufacturers & DHSTA, and effectively managed with a resulting decrease of incidents. Autos now full of electronics. With this comes the intermittant glitzes. And no trace left. And may not happen again. etc. etc.
    (10)RECALL - objectively and personally would have liked to have seen Toyota immediately be more pro-active with media releases. Are they being totally upfront - can not honestly and objectively say for sure. None of us will ever know for sure it appears - all auto manufacturers investigations/analysis information is proprietary. DHSTA has relied always upon auto manufacturers investigations. Etc, etc, etc. Hope we all review the unraveling of facts, research well, and keep up with the news. Yeah - may get some of the other manufacturers that have higher complaints also - address as well.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,850
    The Ford cruise control fix may be the largest by number. I cannot find any deaths related. Toyota has at least 19 deaths and probably more that were not attributed properly. Dead people don't get a chance to tell about their car racing out of control.

    I took my 99 Ranger in for the cruise control fix. It was a wire with two connectors and a fusible link. I had never heard about the recall until I got the letter in the mail. Took the service manager less than 30 seconds to do the fix.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,599
    Seriously, you sound like a broken record.

    We KNOW you are doing EVERYTHING iun your power to drag Toyota down or "dance on it's grave" as our host pointed out.

    We get the message, seriously, and trying to further scare people is like pouring gas on a fire.
  • kernickkernick Posts: 4,072
    I just had my washing machine repaired the other day. I have all these switches I can turn the washer do all sorts of things. The switches are connected to a computer-board. Well for some reason after 7 years the computer-board went bad; they do that after so many thermal-cycles, dust, and electricity-surges.

    On Sun. I was turning that switch to get the washer to spin, I unplugged it to reboot the system ... no good. Basically every switch tied to that computer board is useless. It can be a hardware or software issue with machines that make you switches, or keyboard/mouse useless. Similarly turning a key in that ignition switch is not a very good solution if you have control-system problems/lockup.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,862
    Why are you knocking your own car in a public forum? If you ever do sell it you might get sued by the buyer for knowingly selling them a dangerous piece of junk !!

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    Here is Consumer Reports Auto Engineer Auto comparison between Toyota and VW for UA incidents - how to stop auto

    http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/video-hub/cars/safety/how-to-stop-your-car-du- ring-sudden-acceleration/17188412001/48234862001/
  • "What's the simplest, most reliable way to stop an engine from running?"

    Short of an air strike, I'd say using a .50 BMG round through the block. It works for the military.

    John
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