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Toyota Halts Sales of Popular Models - Accelerator Stuck Problem Recall

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Comments

  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    Very informative information which includes a representative from Edmunds. Sounds like a Toyota coverup based on some of the responses in the video.

    Toyota Hits the Brakes
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,687
    that Enterprise, National, and Alamo have pulled all Toyotas in their fleets. They don't want to take the chance that their rental cars will kill people....

    And I heard that several years of the Vibe and the Venza have been added to the recall, although it wasn't clear if that was the recall for the mats or for the sticky accelerator. Either way, Toyota added 1.1 million cars to the recall late yesterday.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • Err which is what I said.

    The starting letter 'J' is the country code for Japan and 'T' is the manufacturer.

    North American built Toyotas will have the numbers 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5 and then the letter 'T' for Toyota.

    Hondas built in Japan would be 'JH' for the first two letters of the VIN and Hondas built in North America will be 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5 and then 'H.'
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,174
    Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification.
  • "ABC News indicated that would be dangerous to drive the cars. "

    Like I'm going to listen to a thing ABC has to say about cars. Or anything else. Do you go to ABC News for medical advice or plumbing repairs?

    John
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    Is that all you got out of it??????

    Think you need to watch the video again and this time try to focus on the Toyota rep they interviewed, or the owners they interviewed, or the response they got at the Toyota headquarters, or the Edmunds rep they interviewed, or the Toyota commercial they showed which represents what they stand or shall I say stood for, etc.

    Geeez! ABC News just carried the story, surprised you even come to the edmunds forum then if you are not going to even listen to what the Edmunds rep has to say about the situation. :confuse:
  • foxyesqfoxyesq Posts: 26
    I have experienced this sudden acceleration firsthand, while driving a 2008 Sequoia.

    With the radar cruise control set in the mid 70's (speed limit was 70 mph on I-95), the radar detected a vehicle in front of me and began to slow down -- as is normal with the radar cruise control. The cruse control is very conservative and, even on the distance setting at the minimum, leaves a long distance between the car in front. I was feathering the gas pedal to get a little closer to the car in front of us, and was looking to change lanes to pass the slower moving vehicle. Suddenly, the car took off and accelerated as if I floored it. My father-in-law, who owns the car, and was with me at the time and asked "what the F###!!!" I was doing. I told him it was not me, but the car. At the time, I thought that the radar lost track of the vehicle we were behind, and accelerated to get back to the speed that I had set. I commented on how surprised I was that that cruse control would accelerate that aggressively -- it downshifted accelerated as if it had been floored.

    It is relevant to note that the gas pedal was NOT stuck on anything, and I do not believe that it was depressed in any manner. The car did slow down after I pressed on the break -- hard, and I resumed normal driving after that.

    Until this recall, I chalked it up to a shortcoming of the cruse control, but am now convinced that it was something other than that. Looking back, I believe that this happened more than once (we round-trip the car from NJ to FL every year) and we have garaged the car until the issue is resolved.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    "..do you go to ABC News.."

    YES.

    In exactly the same context, Ecoli outbreak, for instance.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    Cruise control servomotor functionality is now integrated within the DBW firmware, along with idle control and VSC/TC engine dethrottling. One throttle servomotor serves ALL.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,067
    Here's part of the Toyota story I saw Wednesday night.

    http://abcnews.go.com/video/video?id=9685438&tab=9482931&section=1206825&playlis- t=&page=1

    There were several parts, all reflecting bad on Toyota, and this was one where the salesman told the shopper that the recall was only for "older" Toyotas!!! :sick:
  • "Geeez! ABC News just carried the story, surprised you even come to the edmunds forum then if you are not going to even listen to what the Edmunds rep has to say about the situation."

    I called Toyota customer service myself. Why would I bother with the mass media? I called the dealer myself. I read the Toyota releases.

    The Edmunds rep? What's an Edmunds rep? Does Edmunds build or fix cars? It's a web site. I've never bought a car from Edmunds, had them change my oil, sell a car for me or anything. It's a nice web site though, isn't it?

    Some of us have been tracking/following these reported problems for a long time on line in other discussion forums. Reminds me of the Audi hoopla decades ago. There was a problem, but it was blown all out of proportion.

    John
  • Anybody else remember when NBC rigged the exploding truck and blamed GM? It's the anything for ratings mindset. They aren't after facts, they use the drama to get ratings. It was the end of trust in the big 3 networks. John

    "Dateline NBC aired an investigative report on Tuesday, November 17th, 1992, titled “Waiting to Explode.” The 60 minute program was about General Motors pickup trucks allegedly exploding upon impact during accidents due to the poor design of fuel tanks. Dateline's film showed a sample of a low speed accident with the fuel tank exploding. In reality, Dateline NBC producers had rigged the truck’s fuel tank with remotely controlled explosives. The program did not disclose the fact that the accident was staged. GM investigators studied the film, and discovered that smoke actually came out of the fuel tank 6 frames before impact. GM subsequently filed an anti-defamation/libel lawsuit against NBC after conducting an extensive investigation. On Monday, February 8, 1993 GM conducted a highly publicized point-by-point rebuttal in the Product Exhibit Hall of the General Motors Building in Detroit that lasted nearly two hours after announcing the lawsuit. [2] The lawsuit was settled the same week by NBC, and Jane Pauley read a 3 minute 30 second on-air apology to viewers."
  • Some of us have been tracking/following these reported problems for a long time on line in other discussion forums. Reminds me of the Audi hoopla decades ago. There was a problem, but it was blown all out of proportion.

    Yeah but that really wasn't Audi's fault. Nothing was wrong with the cars. The pedals were just a tiny bit closer together then on other cars but that was it. There were no problems with a part and if you held the brake and the gas pedal down at the same time the brakes would over power the engine. Audi never had to recall anything.

    Jeep had a similar problem with XJ and ZJ cherokees in the 90s. People said there was SA but it was just people not noticing the pedals are a little closer together on those vehicles.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,067
    You found the one that was the 6:30 pm report on ABC.

    AND Edmunds has had interviews as car experts placing Edmunds in an industry position. In the past they might have gone to CR for talking head reports.

    I was very impressed with Michelle Krebs and the information she gave. Unbiased.
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    Anybody else remember when NBC rigged the exploding truck and blamed GM? It's the anything for ratings mindset. They aren't after facts, they use the drama to get ratings. It was the end of trust in the big 3 networks. John

    This is the perfect example of this problem with Toyota from the beginning; nothing but excuses. Though I can honestly say I do not see what the example with NBC has ANY relevance here. ABC didn't narrate or make up anything; they tried contacting Toyota Headquarters, interviewed owners, etc. That is more important than anything.

    Just like Toyota, too many people continue to live in denial, thinking that is a way to come to terms with something.

    Toyota is wrong here; come forth and admit and stop making excuses while they are putting peoples lives in danger. Based on how Toyota has handled this, I do not see how anyone would want to purchase from them again. The competition is now as good or even better and their quality shows it, which leads the consumer to the question..."Why would anyone now a days buy a Toyota"? It is not for the quality or reliability as we have all now seen that demonstrated.

    Just like back in the 80's when there were those that had an "H" embedded on their forward and all they could drive was a Honda, some of these die hard Toyota drivers will do anything to look the other way and make excuses for what Toyota has done.

    I am holding on to mine to just a while longer to see if Toyota issues a buyback which I expect to happen. For now, it is parked in my driveway and not moving. I was thinking of selling it or trading it, but it seems the resale value has already been impacted negatively.

    For everyone's safety, if you are on the road and see a Toyota coming up behind you, I would do everything possible to stay clear of it or it might not stop and you just might get rear ended. Never thought I would see the day when Toyotas are just unsafe to drive.

  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,174
    I was with you until this...

    For everyone's safety, if you are on the road and see a Toyota coming up behind you, I would do everything possible to stay clear of it or it might not stop and you just might get rear ended. Never thought I would see the day when Toyotas are just unsafe to drive.

    roflmao, bit irrational isn't it? What did you just see a screening of 2012 or something? "Oh no, there is a Toyota in my rear view, my life is over!"

    1 in every 5 vehicles I see everyday are Toyotas, it's not like their crashing all over the place... Sheesh. :sick:
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,174
    http://www.fordfires.com/

    So by logic everyone who lives next door to somebody who has a Ford product, the first thing you need to do is panic and abandon your house before your neighbors car catches fire and then catches your house on fire and kills your entire family.

    ;)
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,067
    xenophobic: An unreasonable fear, distrust, or hatred of strangers, foreigners, or anything perceived as foreign or different.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,174
    Whatever, didn't realize this was dictionary.com...

    Paranoia OK? ;)
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    Well, think that story is....how old now?

    This problem with Toyota keeps changing everyday so hard to really know the heart of the problem until it all comes out and I blame Toyota for dragging this one.

    First the was the Rustundra...now this bring new meaning to "Oh What a Feeling".
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,174
    The cruise control issue? That's been going on for years. As has the Dexcool fiasco, the Intermediate steering shaft issues on Government Motors vehicles and the "like a knock" GM V8's.

    My point is this is serious, but let's not get carried away.

    LOL at "Rustundra". Hadn't heard that one before. Good thing I put the soda down before reading that. :P
  • GM H-Bodies caught fire too from transmission lines that rusted through and blasted hot trans fluid on the exhaust. My old Bonneville had that recall done a few years before I bought it.

    Like I have said before, tidester even made a thread about it, name a brand I can name a widespread problem they tried to sweep under the rug.

    This Toyota thing seems to be on a whole other level though it just keeps snowballing and getting worse.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    I have some computer experience as well as a bit of design and engineering in the mix and one thing comes to mind as the real cause.

    Drive by Wire.

    Seriously, floor mats and other issues like that are just Toyota looking for an excuse when they know full well that the issue is something that can't be fixed without a major redesign next year. Ie - "It might be that if you place the mats just this way"(bunched up like only a moron would let happen) or "This servo might stick under the right conditions and enough wear"(despite the part being nowhere near its normal end of life)

    The issue is drive by wire. Something's gone pear-shaped with their electronics and/or software that controls it and they're trying to find any excuse that might be the cause other than their design is unsafe. Blaming a servo or floor mats is just total BS and anyone with an ounce of technical skill would realize that servos and relays last for the better part of a decade.

    The big give-away is the reports of the automatic cruise control malfunctioning. That's 100% software, folks.

    Watch the next year models switch back to a throttle cable. Then try to sell your drive-by-wire ones used. To anyone.

    ***this is from Wikipedia on Electronic Throttle Control***
    There are two primary types of throttle position sensors: a potentiometer or a Hall Effect sensor (magnetic device). The potentiometer is a satisfactory way for non-critical applications such as volume control on a radio, but as it has a wiper contact rubbing against a resistance element, dirt and wear between the wiper and the resistor can cause erratic readings. The more reliable solution is the magnetic coupling that makes no physical contact, so will never be subject to failing by wear.

    This is an insidious failure as it may not provide any symptoms until there is total failure. (edit by me - they're talking about the second type of sensor here- usually the potentiometer desgins give plenty of warning)
    *****
    There also is a note at the bottom of the article stating that ETC is currently suspected in the recent Toyota recalls but that Toyota is fiercely denying it.

    Guess what type of sensors the Toyotas use? Guess what happens when they get confused and start to fail? The U.S. made parts may be defective or fail in 2-3 years instead of 8-10 like the Japanese parts, but the problem still remains. When(not if) the part breaks and needs replacement, expect it to cause the throttle to jam wide open.

    Bad, bad idea. Never trust your throttle or steering to a bunch of sensors and software, especially as your car ages.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Accuracy is important...

    Seriously, floor mats and other issues like that are just Toyota looking for an excuse when they know full well that the issue is something that can't be fixed without a major redesign next year. Ie - "It might be that if you place the mats just this way"(bunched up like only a moron would let happen) or "This servo might stick under the right conditions and enough wear"(despite the part being nowhere near its normal end of life)

    It was NHTSA that forced the 4.2 ( + 1.1 ) million mat recall. Toyota was against doing it because it's stupid. The gas pedal and OEM mats were NOT the problem, they were NEVER the problem. This is NHTSA's horse that it's whipping.

    The problem that NHTSA wants addressed is when stupid people do stupid things like put multiple floor mats on top of one another, don't secure them and even put the wrong All Weather mats in the wrong vehicle. Neither NHTSA nor Toyota can stop stupid people from doing stupid things, they can only minimize the risks of those stupid actions in the future. Be accurate, this one is NHTSA's baby.
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,137
    name a brand I can name a widespread problem they tried to sweep under the rug.

    Brand problems swept under the rug

    Moderator
    Need help navigating? stever@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • Ah see I remembered tidester setting that up not you. Faulty memory as I hit 30.
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,137
    Just wait til you get to be my age. :shades:

    Moderator
    Need help navigating? stever@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    As it's wont to do, the U.S. House of Representatives has decided to investigate Toyota over its recent recalls involving possible unintended acceleration caused by both floor mats and defective accelerator pedal mechanisms. The House Energy and Commerce committee will hold a hearing on February 25 to "examine the persistent consumer complaints of sudden unintended acceleration in vehicles manufactured by Toyota Motor Corporation," this according to committee chairman Henry Waxman, D-Calif (above). Not only will Toyota be on the hot seat, but the committee will also investigate how well the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has handled the situation.

    The Detroit News reports that Toyota officials already met with members of the committee on Wednesday. They were asked to provide the committee with information and documents and will be expected to answer questions at the hearing about when they first learned of cases involving unintended acceleration in their vehicles and what steps were taken to safeguard customers who might be at risk. They'll probably also be asked about the connection between NHTSA and Toyota through one Mr. Christopher Santucci, a former NHTSA employee who took a job with Toyota around the same time these issues were first being investigated.

    It's also fair to point out that this isn't the first time a recall has gained the attention of Capitol Hill. The recall involving Firestone tires on Ford Explorers in 2000 sparked Congressional hearings, for instance.
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