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Toyota Halts Sales of Popular Models - Accelerator Stuck Problem Recall

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Comments

  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    Hopefully like Toyota did with the 2000-2001 Rustundra and the 1995-2000 Tacomas, they will also buy-out current owners effected by the ongoing problems.

    However, with the 2000-2001 Rustundra and the 1995-2000 Tacomas, they offered to replace or buy-back the bad trucks without having to issue a recall...very sneaky Toyota. :lemon:
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,375
    >what steps were taken to safeguard customers who might be at risk. They'll probably also be asked about the connection between NHTSA and Toyota through one Mr. Christopher Santucci, a former NHTSA employee who took a job with Toyota around the same time these issues were first being

    We need congress to do something to safeguard taxpayers from congress.

    However if they want to investigate improprieties on the part of Toyota and Santucci using inside connections to avoid proper noting of the acceleration events, from 2004 till now, I do encourage that.

    If they're just investigating for a show, they've got other work to do in DC that isn't getting done while they're busy with politics as usual.

    There already are agencies and laws in place to handle the recalls--such as the one requiring Toyo to stop selling the vehicles until they have a fix in hand.
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    LOL at "Rustundra". Hadn't heard that one before. Good thing I put the soda down before reading that.

    Glad you like it, here is another one for you: TOyoTA(L) RECALL!
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    Wow, you are wrong in so many ways...

    The throttle plate position sensor is actually TWO sensors, as is the accelerator pedal position sensor(s). The monitoring software compares the signal output from the primary sensor to that of the secondary sensor and if they do not compare within a certain range the software FAULTS (sorry, now you're not going nowhere in a hurry).

    Potentiometer as position sensors. You have described a potentiometer design that is literally ancient history insofar as modern automotive feedback controls are concerned. Take one apart and have a looksee.

    "Guess what type of sensors the Toyotas use?.."

    Sorry, I don't have to guess, I KNOW. A simple, inexpensive, subscription to techinfo.toyota.com and you would also know. Most, if not all, sensors that we might consider critical are of the hall-effect type, DUAL hall-effect sensor type.

    "Guess what happens when they get confused and start to fail..?"

    Asked and ANSWERED..!!

    "..The big give-a-way is the reports of the automatic cruise control malfunctioning.."

    "..Thats 100% software, folks..."

    NOT.

    1.) Mechanical roadspeed sensor for input, "gear-tooth" magnetic sensor. Can be checked against, validated by, any one of the 4 ABS wheel sensors.
    2.) Solid state power amplifier to drive the throttle plate servomotor.
    3.) Throttle plate and servomotor itself.
    4.) Throttle plate position sensor(s).
    5.) Brake pedal light switch input.
    6.) Accelerator pedal position sensor(s) so driver can over-right CC.

    But yes the CC firmware might be at fault but IMMHO that is a lot less likely than the base engine/transaxle ECU control firmware being at fault. Maybe, just maybe, those driver's never thought to slip the transaxle into neutral but Toyota will need to prove that to me. So I'm of the mind that the engine/transaxle ECU firmware "crawled into a hold" (deadly embrace) with the engine already operating at WOT as the driver wished, momentarily wished. Now the engine/transaxle firmware will not close the throttle as the accelerator pedal is released, nor will it pay any attention to the shifter position switches. And maybe not even to the fact that the ignition has been switched off.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,053
    This got me to thinking. Both Congress and the NHTSA were somewhat embarrassed by Toyota being the top recipients of their largesse during the C4C program. Forcing Toyota to quit selling their cars, could be payback for that situation? In retaliation Toyota quickly blame the throttle components built by a US company. They also shut down the US factories to further make their point. I think it is a giant P*****G match between Toyota and the US government.

    It is hard to imagine any company building worse electronics than Denso. People will not relate the problem to either CTS or any other supplier. It will be TOYOTA that knew about the SUA and let it slide. Meanwhile their are thousands of Toyota owners wondering how safe they are driving their cars. Where is Fox in all this? It seems to be the Obama networks, ABC & MSNBC doing all the dirty work.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    "..they know full well that the issue is something that can't be fixed without a major redesign next year.."

    One word...REFLASH..!!

    Even if the firmware is at fault and it takes awhile to locate the "bug" a simple FAILSAFE modification could still be made that forces the throttle plate closed when the brake light switch closes.

    "..back to a throttle cable.."

    Then we had better ground one whole hell of a lot of AirBusses, 777's and just forget about the FAA ever certifying the DreamLiner.

    It might take awhile, but "this" can be fixed.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    Denso = the modern day Lucas..??
  • Denso has great electronics. Denso is just Gary's latest thing to complain about.

    Land Rover switching to mostly Denso electronics is what nearly single handedly cured the majority of their electronic problems.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    Denso = DENSE, as in pretty damn DENSE.

    It's taken them almost 20 years now even to get a climate control design half way right. I strongly suspect they might even be responsible for the U140E transaxle design flaw since that screw-up is in their nature.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,693
    Whoa, this slamming of Denso is sure coming out of left field. Denso has been pretty much the only supplier of electronic components for Japanese-built Toyotas for DECADES, which until recently were some of the most reliable cars on the planet.

    Don't know where/when Denso treated you badly, but you may be falsely extrapolating your experience to Denso's overall performance.

    It has been clear to me for many years now (most recently affirmed for me by this whole debacle) that Toyota has a major issue with transplanting their production to North America - the quality of Toyotas built here sucks, but doesn't in Japanese-built ones. The parts (mostly locally supplied) in North America are inferior, the build quality is inferior.

    What is UNCLEAR to me is what Honda does differently that gains it such a high level of quality from its North American cars, indeed one that matches its Japanese-produced cars. I mean, Honda has been here a few more years than Toyota has, but they both have 20 years under their belts in this country .

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,053
    The Denso NAV unit in my 07 Sequoia Limited is a POC. Too bad Land Rover is going to be the loser if they buy Denso, made in India junk. When my CD player died it would not let us even close the NAV screen. So for 4 weeks while they got a new unit from India we had our NAV screen sitting horizontal. Only thing that worked was talk radio AM station.

    Still better than having your throttle stuck wide open.

    I think your take on the ECU firmware is a very likely problem.
  • maximafanmaximafan Posts: 592
    Why do you get so upset that people are in "denial" about driving
    Toyota products? Why would they be in "denial" if the majority of
    the Toyota owners are not having these problems?? I'm still very
    confident in the reliability of my '07 RX. It's been a great car for the last three-and-a-half years. So I refuse to start panicking about this. Just step back and take a deep breath!!! ;) Frankly, I just think this is all a bunch of hysteria that's taking over here.
  • lzclzc Posts: 483
    Hysteria is the perfect word for what's going on. Going forward, anyone driving a Toyota who wants to avoid responsibility for an accident will blame it on unintended acceleration. And the news media will slavishly report the claims. Never mind that the documented occurrence of this failure is quite small.

    Last night, the local TV news had one lady blaming her Prius for slamming into another car, with the narrator informing everyone that the Prius was not "for now" part in the recall. The first rule of TV news, scare first, inform later . . . if ever.

    Let the games begin!
  • hoyafanhoyafan Posts: 48
    Things are going from bad to worse for Toyota.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,175
    link title

    A Ford Motor Co. venture suspended production of a full-size commercial van in China as it investigates accelerator pedals made by CTS Corp., the supplier involved in Toyota Motor Corp.’s vehicle recall.
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    Fact file on Toyota's vehicle recall in the US. Toyota raced past US giant General Motors in 2008 to become the world's top-selling automaker, but it has been bedevilled by a series of safety issues that have raised questions about whether it sacrificed quality for quantity.

    image
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    I certainly hope that word spreads more about the NHTSA telling Toyota that they had to stop selling these defective cars until a solution has been found rather than all these broadcasts of Toyota putting a spin on it to make them look good. Everyone keeps saying Toyota’s reputation is going to improve over the way they have handled this. None of them had heard that it was not Toyota’s choice to stop selling and producing these models.
  • daveqdaveq Posts: 20
    I bought a 2010 Camry last Nov. and obviously am paying close attention to this recall/issue. In my opnion this whole thing is turning into a big witchhunt, at least on Edmunds forums where you have a couple of users who beat around the same bush over and over again. I understand that this is a public forum and users have a right to say what they want to, within the limits and regulations of Edumunds, but it is getting annoying and frustrating to see the same unhelpful rattlings from the same id over and over and over again. Is there an ignore function on Edmunds, just like on Yahoo message board, where you can put an id on ignore and whatever he/she posted will not show up on your screen?
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    I don't agree with many of the responses on here either, but as an owner of a 2009 Toyota Camry, I definitely want to hear as much as possible about this issue if Toyota can actually resolve it.
  • I can confirm that my experience with Denso components in my 1990 Toyota Celica and 1990 Honda Civic has been very positive actually outstanding. The Denso alternator in my Toyota and Denso starter in my Honda are both still original. I have no experience with their climate control or navigation systems though. But I can tell you that from my experience with my Mercedes C240 that either Bosh or Siemens have issues with their climate control systems and electronics.
    Denso's original name was NipponDenso. When my mom and I were shopping for cars during the 1980's we sought of had a "Nippon Only" philosophy. ;) No pun intended.
  • daveqdaveq Posts: 20
    Precisely, posting as much information as possible on what is happening going forward, personal experience in regard to this issue, technical discussions on possible problems apart from those already announced, or suggestions on what recourse do Toyota owners have and so forth are USEFUL/HELPFUL. Cutting and pasting texts without citing sources, REPEATED ranting of Toyota's inferior quality with links to Toyota's TV advertisement, and writing messages with the same theme over and over again ARE NOT.
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    I am sorry you feel that way; just like some people won't drive their Toyota now while others would go out today and buy one if they could; we all have our own personal opinions.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,296
    Just use your down arrow to scroll on by, Dave.

    I've never had an issue with Denso, but ALPS switches have failed on me. Car guys have always known about Lord Lucas or Holley, but these days the general public learns about CTS and Denso and all the other suppliers as soon as something breaks.

    Wwest, maybe you can get on the Hyundai tech site and see how their "throttles" are set up. A few Santa Fe owners have reported unintended acceleration problems.

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • Karen_CMKaren_CM Posts: 5,024
    If you own one of the models listed in the recall and have actually experienced the unintended acceleration, please send an email with details of the experience and how it felt.

    karen@edmunds.com

    Community Manager If you have any questions or concerns about the Forums, send me an email, karen@edmunds.com, or click on my screen name to send a personal message.

  • Agreed never had any problems with any Denso electronic components in really any vehicle I can think of. Did we have some failures sure but they were usually the result of outside influence, non-compatible bluetooth phones screwing up Nav systems for one, or failures that happened well outside the normal life of a component. I don't expect any electronic component to last forever.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    BTW, how's it going with your Camry? It's good to see that despite the raging torrent of posts you've been making herein that in reality you actually spend your hard earned money in supporting your local Toyota dealer and the many workers involved in making the Camry. Not to mention sending a profit back to Japan ;) .

    Well done sir. If I looked up prevaricator, duplicitous or two-faced what would that definition say? What about professional marketing shill for a competitor to Toyota? Is that definition nearby?
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    "...documented occurrence of this failure is quite small.."

    Quite small....

    Yes, and so is the number of Toyota owners who would willingly participate in a game of russian roulette even with those same "odds", 2 million empty chambers but only one or two (three..?) bullets.

    Yes, let the "games" begin....
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    Sorry, while I do admire Hyundai for their rapid rise in the marketplace I have not, so far, seen anything unique enough about any of their products to attract me.

    Perhaps in the future.
  • carlupicarlupi Posts: 52
    This Avalon Forum contains some 100 separate discussion titles/themes. But, prior to the discussion posted just two days ago after the recall there was not a single discussion in this Forum about the stuck gas pedal that supposedly affects all Avalons built over the past 5 years. This can only mean that: a) the problem affects an insignificantly small number of Avalons built in 2005-2010; b) the problem only surfaces on Avalons after several years of use.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    Maybe you should go back and read some of the older forums on the Camry and read all the people who have been complaining about this since at least 2007 with many of them selling at a lost because of Toyota's attitude and there were scared for their families. I wonder when this is over and done how many will sue Toyota because of the loss they suffered with their vehicles. :lemon:
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