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Toyota Halts Sales of Popular Models - Accelerator Stuck Problem Recall

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  • kernickkernick Posts: 4,072
    edited February 2010
    I did that to make a point to Millwood. ;) Next I'm going to make everyone's computer calculate pi, to prove how fast but unreliable your technology is. :D

    How many of you feel warm and fuzzy about trusting your technological-toys after reading the following. And remember many of these manufacturers are trying to get these products 1) the cheapest, and 2) the fastest to market!

    http://www.edn.com/article/CA47096.html
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    edited February 2010
    Is anyone buying into Toyota's current commercials on TV right now? I can't believe they say they are concerned about their customers safety! When has any car company been concerned about the customer? that is why people have to die in order for something to ever be looked into or done about!!

    great example of this, in my township there was a dangerous intersection at a US highway junction where several accidents occurred; several of my neighbors and myself went to several township meetings for years begging for a delayed traffic light to be put in because we all new someone would die eventually at the intersection; the township kept saying we don't need it, its not necessary and all are safety issues went through one ear and out the other; finally, a fatal car accident that killed 5 people happened at that intersection a few years ago

    3 months after that accident a delayed traffic light was installed at the intersection!!

    see my point?
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,551
    I guess we've gone binary or something. Or maybe not - computers or software never mess up, right?

    Stay tuned. :)

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    edited February 2010
    What was Toyota/etc's motivation for adopting BTO (Brake-Throttle Over-ride) in the 2011 models....??
  • It seems like a blatantly obvious ploy to get free air time. And it's working. They have us talking about it.

    I don't want it. I want to be able to work the brake and gas together. Even with the rear camera a Highlander is a handful to parallel park on ice or in the rain at night, etc. I live downtown on a one-way street in a century-old neighborhood. After 30 years I've almost forgotten how to park on the right side of the street.

    My '10 Highlander is almost 9" shorter than my old '06 Avalon. I love parking it.

    John
  • drdonrsdrdonrs Posts: 164
    You should have bought a Hyundai. All the ridicule I have heard in the past when I bought my 06 Sonata and Azera is all just history. Two of the best cars I have owned and I drive with confidence. I think Toyota's smug attitude has put them in the toilet. :) don
  • delthekingdeltheking Posts: 1,152
    edited February 2010
    Here`s a link to Toyota`s comeback plan straight from the horse`s mouth[article by Toyota head Akio Toyoda].. Toyota is coming back with a bang !! :shades: :P
    link title
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,084
    edited February 2010
    Toyota Recall: Issa Says He's Willing to Subpoena Akio Toyoda

    After Toyota President Akio Toyoda said he had changed his plans and would not be coming to the United States later this month, Congressman Darrell Issa, R.-Calif., said he was willing to issue a subpoena to compel Toyoda to appear before his committee.

    The US government can just shut all Toyota operations in the USA down. Then how long would it take his highness to get his butt over here? The arrogance of Toyota upper management is amazing. Didn't he watch what they did to Wagoner? Does Toyoda think he is bigger than Obama? Toyota being allowed to sell in the USA is a privilege not a right.

    http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/toyota-recall-issa-subpoena-akio-toyoda/story?id=9- - 807150

    Issa has a bone to pick with Toyota. They are shutting down the NUMMI plant in CA. I don't think Toyota wants to get Congress riled up against them. It is easy to write legislation that would put them out of business in a NY second. It would not be a first time. And probably not the last.
  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,065
    Toyoda needs to learn something from the CEO of JAL.

    Haruka Nishimatsu CEO
  • "It is easy to write legislation that would put them out of business in a NY second."

    it definitely would be easy to draft such a legislation. But it would be very difficult to pass it.

    not to mention the stupidity in attempting to do so.
  • revitrevit Posts: 476

    Former Toyota attorney says automaker hid safety problems


    In a recent interview, former Toyota attorney Dimitrios Biller claimed that the automaker regularly covered up evidence of safety problems. Biller handled product liability suits for Toyota before leaving the company in 2007.

    According to an exclusive interview with ABC News, Biller, a former top attorney for the automaker, the company regularly concealed proof of safety problems, and failed to disclose information that it was legally obligated to produce during litigation.

    “You have to understand that Toyota in Japan does not have any respect for our legal system,” said Biller. “They were hiding evidence, concealing evidence, destroying evidence, obstructing justice.”

    Biller went on to explain this belief with an anecdote, explaining that as he would prepare information that outlined possible safety issues of Toyota vehicles for plaintiffs his boss would remind him of what he referred to as the “golden rule.” Biller said that when he asked what that rule was, his boss clarified, “Don’t screw with the client [Toyota].”
  • mnfmnf Posts: 404
    edited February 2010
    You left out the part in the artical that says he was treated for MENTAL ISSUES and a onslaught of DEPRESSION. The attorney ( Biller) also says that my depression has improved since i left.The interview from the main stream Left Lane News.com why is he not on CNN, ABC, CBS or NBC .Oh i guess since he is a attorney he wont lie or cheat your right we should belive him ;)
  • kernickkernick Posts: 4,072
    edited February 2010
    Post 1194: what if the primary system is problematic 0.0000005% of the time, and everything else is the same. Will you add that back-up system?

    not sure?

    what if the primary system is problematic 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000- - - 000000000000000000000000005% of the time, and everything else is the same. will you add that back-up system?


    Look you can tell me how wonderful your personal experience with your camera is, and that your MP3 will still sing you a song if there's a major cyber-attack. But you still have not addressed why your statements like the above - on computer and system reliability - do not match reality.

    Your statements certainly did not match reality, when I posted a link to the failure rates of XBox360 and Sony Playstation3 computer systems. You have the major software company, and 1 of the top electronic companies in the world who would love to have failure rates near 1%. I believe you said something like "well things break", which confirmed my main point.

    Let's take a look again at failure-rates: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2008/02/xbox-360-failure-rates-worse-than-mos- t-consumer-electornics.ars

    They certainly don't look reliable enough that I would risk my life on 1 working any given day!

    Please explain why so many Xbox and Sony computers break/fail, and how this does not negate your statements of consumer software and hardware is reliable.
    If you want please feel free to go to Consumer Reports and tell us why they list so many models of so many items as poor or moderate reliability.
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,197
    Heck, I don't mind the traction control! It has certainly helped me get around in my RWD Mercury Grand Marquis during the worst winter Philly has ever seen! There is a button on the dashboard to deactivate it if I so desire.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,084
    My 05 Passat had a de-activate button also for ESC when you want to drive the car yourself. You could have gotten the same results from posi-traction on a rear wheel drive. My point is if a car maker cannot get all those devices to work without unintended problems, we are better off without them. The Prius is notorious for getting stuck on just a little snow or ice because of the traction control. It will not allow any wheel spin which sometimes it takes a little to get moving. Just another Toyota gremlin they expect the owners to live with.
  • winter2winter2 Posts: 1,800
    To compare a Xbox failure to issues with an automobile is ridiculous. If an Xbox fails, no one gets killed or injured. If brakes on a car fail, even intermittently and/or even rarely, someone can get killed or injured.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Gary says, "The Prius is notorious for getting stuck on just a little snow or ice because of the traction control. It will not allow any wheel spin which sometimes it takes a little to get moving. Just another Toyota gremlin they expect the owners to live with."

    Unfortunately for my Toyota Love Affair, I have to agree with you on this one, and add that the Camry Hybrid has the same problem.

    Because it happened to me in December 2009 when I got caught in a snowstorm/blizzard.

    I came up to a highway intersection stop sign on a snowy road. I was only going about 20 mph, so I started stopping about 40 feet from the sign. ABS kicked in and started stopping me, but I still slid a little bit, and came to a complete stop at the sign.

    It was clear, so I pressed the accelerator to go. No forward movement. No tire spin, the car just acted like the emergency brake was on.

    Because I had heard about this problem in the Prius, I knew what to do.

    I put the car in reverse and stopped after a few feet, then quickly shifted to drive and started forward. This time, the tires gripped, probably because I was no longer on "fresh snow" but on the "crushed snow" I had already driven on once.

    Seems like their system needs refining.

    Like a lot of systems on a lot of cars. 'Yota is not unique in producing cars which are less than perfect.
  • dturrdturr Posts: 70
    Hey my neighbour has struck a deal with his local dealer. He will lease a vehicle if they swap out the pedals getting shut of the CTS assembly and they agreed.
    He would not do a deal with shims and stuck to his demand.
  • kernickkernick Posts: 4,072
    To compare a Xbox failure to issues with an automobile is ridiculous.

    No one was comparing the result or effect of a failure, so you are mistaken. The point is whether a computer and all its subsystems are in an Xbox, a laptop, or a TV, those systems are riddled with software and hardware problems.

    If an Xbox fails, no one gets killed or injured. If brakes on a car fail, even intermittently and/or even rarely, someone can get killed or injured.

    I totally agree. You are making my point that these sorts of electronic systems are not reliable enough, to allow them to control the car without the operator being able to easily shut them down.

    Unless someone can bring data here that says auto systems are much more reliable than our other consumer systems, I stand by my comments. It is not acceptable for even 1 person out of millions to be killed by a faulty electronic system, since it would be reasonable to provide an OFF button. Lawyers will have a field day with this issue, if an auto manufacturer gets up on the stand and admits that they didn't put an OFF button there because they have a relatively low failure rate, and they thought if only a few vehicles ran away - well that's okay.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    The FWD Prius is a rather POOR example to use regarding wintertime traction. Light weight, low rolling resistance tires, EXTREME low end TORQUE. So yes, TC will be especially prone to activation as will VSC when turning.

    Safety FIRST.
  • mikefm58mikefm58 Posts: 2,882
    Hey my neighbour has struck a deal with his local dealer. He will lease a vehicle if they swap out the pedals getting shut of the CTS assembly and they agreed.
    He would not do a deal with shims and stuck to his demand.


    And how is he going to verify the work was in fact done? I wouldn't trust them if I couldn't verify.
  • kernickkernick Posts: 4,072
    Sounds fairly serious. At least he won't get berated for flying a private jet to DC, if he wants.

    http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-rep-issa-talks-of-possible-subpoena-for-toyo- ta-ceo-2010-02-11
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,197
    Hey, he can't take a private jet from Tokyo! He's gotta take a rowboat across the Pacific and then hitchhike from San Diego to DC!
  • kernickkernick Posts: 4,072
    Yes one of those 3 was mine, as I'm trying to post links regarding Toyota, and my comments as to whether I agre or believe them. Here is another link

    http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2010-02-12-toyota-plans-disclosures_N.htm

    It seems to me that with the number of problems with these vehicles, that the designs are being rushed into production before they are fully tested. One of my experiences with design engineers is that they are too motivated to improve things. Many times in the rush to release version 12 with all the golly-gee new features, they mess up what was right with version 11. A good example that most of us might know was when MS Vista replaced Windows XP. My company still uses XP. Maybe in a year or 2 we'll trust Windows 7 enough.
  • ClairesClaires Chicago areaPosts: 979
    A number of posts have been removed because they were off-topic. If you notice that one of yours is gone, it's because it probably would've been more at home in the X-Box Forum. Or the Rolex Forum. Or the Insults Forum.

    ClaireS, Host
    Automotive News & Views | Coupes & Convertibles

    MODERATOR
    Need help getting around? claires@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • Giving my opinion to any of you folks that are considering the purchase of a 'fixed' Toyota - DO NOT DO IT.
    If some accident was to take place you would have some serious problems.
  • mnfmnf Posts: 404
    You will have serious problems if any accident happens :confuse: there are no guarantees on any car or truck no matter who makes it. Not sure what you base this on could you share more on what information you are using for this conclusion

    Thanks
    MNF
  • I had my 2009 Limited serviced today. They only did the gas pedal washer installation. I asked about the 90A floor mat recall on 2005 - 2010 Avalon. They said there wasn't one and would not flash the ECM to allow the brake pedal to cause engine to go to idle. I plan to pursue this as I would like this update. Don't think I want the gas pedal shortened or carpet dug out below gas pedal, which is also part of it.

    Any body else have some experience with the Avalon recall execution? Toyota needs to get it right. I love the Avalon but the 2010 Buick Lucerne is looking better each day as an alternative.
  • Thank you, host ClaireS. It was way past time for your edits. There is a lot of really good Toyota info in this thread.
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