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Toyota Halts Sales of Popular Models - Accelerator Stuck Problem Recall

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Comments

  • abacomikeabacomike South FloridaPosts: 3,514
    I agree with all of what you said, HOWEVER, the President of Toyota USA is merely an executive who runs marketing, sales and public relations for Toyota in the United States. It is obvious that he was the wrong person to call up to Capitol Hill for testifying on behalf of Toyota and the recalls. Japan controls every aspect of operations, production, engineeering, etc.

    In my opinion, it will take many years for Toyota to recover from this mess, if they every fully recover at all. In the meantime, GM, Ford, Nissan and the Korean automobile companies are taking advantage of the situation, as they should. Toyota has been smug about coming clean over the past several years about problems with their vehicles, and now they are going to pay the Piper. Concealing safety issues for over 8 years is what did them in. I only hope the Japanese and particularly Toyota, have learned something from this experience.

    In the meantime, let's hope GM and Ford also learn from this experience so they don't allow themselves sto fall into the same abyss as did Toyota.

    2014 Mercedes Benz CLS 550 - best car ever! 2nd best car ever, my 1967 Corvette Stingray Coupe with 435 hp.

  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    I only hope the Japanese and particularly Toyota, have learned something from this experience.

    Learned something? Come on!

    They still don't even know the problem and if they had their way, they would still be blaming the customer, the supplier, the floor mats, the pedals, and the list goes on.

    Toyota will not change from this. They are simply trying to tell the public what they want to hear to put the issue to rest as they did with the recall on the pedals.

    What's that? The pedal recall won't really fix the issue??? What a surprise! LMAO
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    Now introducing the Toyota "Won'tberecalleda", there is no acceleration or braking so it should not need to be.

    image
    compliments of www.thespoof.com
  • "I only hope the Japanese and particularly Toyota, have learned something from this experience"

    I heard on the local radio station here in Cincy that all the local Toyota dealerships are complaining that Corporate Toyota is getting treated unfair by the government and it because the government owns GM. I don't think this is a good defense to use in America "you are picking on me because" You pulled me over because" You fired me because" Come on Toyota don't you remember Ford's Pinto Fiasco? The government filed criminal charges against Ford executives for the same thing you guys are doing
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    Whenever I hear people saying 'Toyota is being picked on because the government owns GM', I just have to shake my head. If that was the case, does anyone think the government would have 'let' the Cash for Clunkers program include cars from foreign manufacturers as it did? They cleaned the clocks of the domestic manufacturers during that program...unfortunately.

    Bill
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,087
    Conclusions:

    Gilbert is a star because he verified there is a problem with the binary code in toyota's main computer.

    Kane as an attorney showed his true concern for safety of drivers. He had been attacked as a shyster, ambulance chaser here by some. He has helped bring attention to the accumulating unintended accelerations that weren't hidden by being told at the dealer that it was their imagination, they hit the wrong pedal, it was the floor mat, etc.

    The real shyster was Lentz. he used weasel words to make past presidents sound honest by comparison. He carefully inserted adjectives to change the meaning of what was said and let it sound like what hopeful owners wanted to hear. But only 30% of the UA cases might be attributed to the two fake fixes toyota has run by the american public.
  • mikefm58mikefm58 Posts: 2,882
    edited February 2010
    Some of the questions asked are kind of ridiculous, like asking an airline executive, "Can you gaurantee to me today that your planes will not crash ever?". Lentz and Toyota have done the best they can but the deck is really stacked against them, way too much political power with Govt. Motors. Some of the testimony was incredible, like that ladies Lexus had a mind of it's own. Floor mats and sticky gas pedals can't cause that.

    But I have seen enough to cross Toyota off my list of vehicles I'd consider buying again, new or used. Between this and the arrogant dealers in my area, they don't deserve my business. Way too many other good choices out there. I'm going to be in the market for a small truck in a year or so, and had it narrowed down to the Tacoma and the Ford Ranger. Tha Tacoma is now off the list.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,087
    >Govt. Motors

    What does GM have to do with this. It's toyota that has the problem with openess about their runaway acceleration problem.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,900
    I was thinking there have to be 100s or 1000s of used Toyota and Lexus vehicles sitting on used car lots that are covered by the recalls. Can those dealers legally sell a vehicle that is under recall before it is fixed? If the recall gets expanded to require some sort of brake override as it should will those dealers be in trouble if they sell an unsafe used vehicle?
  • mikefm58mikefm58 Posts: 2,882
    >Govt. Motors

    What does GM have to do with this. It's toyota that has the problem with openess about their runaway acceleration problem.


    It's about the pressure Congress is putting on Toyota, note the Title of the post I was responding to "Congressional Investigation Hearings Today". But thanks for your comment, didn't know you were now one of our hosts.
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    Revit

    Yes, appears Lentz was a weaker CEO to testify. Unfortunately appears Lentz does not have total control over US Toyota. Too bad Toyota did not have an engineer present to help answer questions. Etc. But appears is not their strategy approach. Toyota has to be careul for liability related statements. SEC and Federal inquiry to factor in.

    What I was disappointed about - he didn't have any knowledge aobut incidents, complaint, etc - what was done. Appeared - to be more sorry, sorry, sorry type of response approach.

    Smith's issue will be addressed now finally. I do not feel they will ever have good feelings about Toyota. Smiths appeared to be intelligent nice people.

    I have dentist appointment today. Just hope I will not miss Toyoda.
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    Talk about stooping to new lows...when you have to keep bringing up GM, Ford, and the other automakers saying they are now different, that sure does put Toyota into an all time new low. How pathetic!
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    As I just posted sadly Lentz did not have the support sitting with him to address these types of question. Legally this may have been their desired approach?? Personally I was left once again with conflicting information from Toyota. Seems San Diego accident death of CHP officer and his family most influencial factor that has brought us to where we are. Toyota's handling of crisis initially did not help, and crisis marched on.
  • Mike, the Nissan Frontier is a solid truck as well IMO.
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    What is really funny about this whole thing is this big emphasis from Toyota over the past decade how their vehicles are MADE IN AMERICA. Well, if that is the case, it seems rather sad that good old Mr. Lentz cannot explain what has been going on. :confuse:
  • mikefm58mikefm58 Posts: 2,882
    Mike, the Nissan Frontier is a solid truck as well IMO.

    Yes it is, I agree, but several bad experiences at two of the Nissan dealers here have left a bad taste in my mouth. Plus there is a Ford dealership close to home and another close to work, so I have Ford at the top. Thx for the suggestion.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,900
    Toyota's handling of crisis initially did not help, and crisis marched on.

    Toyota handled the Saylor (CHP) case like dozens of others over the last decade. NOT OUR PROBLEM. We build safe cars. If you crash it is your fault. That is until the facts in that case showed it was a dealer installed floor mat that was the likely culprit. Along with questions of inadequate brakes to override a WOT. Questions of why he did not shift into neutral. Is it possible at 120 MPH with WOT? And the keyless ignition that has to be held at least 3 seconds to shut off the engine.

    I think the floor mats were the cause of many UA cases. And if Toyota had done due diligence with their Toyota and Lexus dealers we may not be posting on this thread. They threw in the throttle controller to try and shift the emphasis from there being any electronic anomalies involved in the UA cases. And of course the whole shim thing became an expensive Joke. It was a case of Toyota trying to blame someone else for their lack of engineering, in this case it was CTS. I think the Gilbert finding is just scratching the surface of the problems with Toyota's DBW systems. They include Throttle, Steering and braking issues. I would say they need to go back to the drawing board and start from scratch.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,900
    edited February 2010
    From my experience with the Ford Ranger, I think I would opt for the F150 small V8. Not enough difference in MPG to live with under powered engines in the Rangers. At least the older ones like my 3.0 L V6 FFV. Around here you can get over $5200 in rebate on an F150, bringing the price real close to the Ranger.
  • +1 for the F150.

    I had a Ranger with the V6 for a company car in a previous job. Gas mileage was terrible. Also, ride quality left a lot to be desired.
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    I am not sure why yesterday finally heard recalls may not fix all the issues? But then later Lentz says feels electronics are good & can't find problem, then says could have problem??? Could be result of Gilbert's findings. But don't forget Lentz's subtle evaluation about Gilbert's findings left me with impression they will have Exponent tear that finding apart. I just found out this morning Toyota has used Exponent in past also. Uses in lawsuits for legal defense. But don't trust them after they helped PGE with their deadly chromium pollution. Paustenbach their former Vice President was one mainly attacked with that false scientific research study, but Exponent was right in the middle of it all too. Since Paustenbach was serving on famous Blue Ribbon Panel, PGE hired Exponent to try to help Paustenbach stay on panel. Still had to finally resign. Their research study prevented California from enacting a law in California restricting mounts of chromium in drinking water for over ten years. All California residents were not protected from chromium in drinking water. Paustenbach's name was not on study, and they were quite sly what authors put on study. And to actually use one scientists name for publication without his permission is highly unethical. But they were smart enough to avoid legal liability. But everyone knows dots were finally connected though. Medical publication retracted study.

    Exponent is well respected by those who need them for defense. Sure wish Toyota would have used a more neutral firm. Personally I will not be one who believes what they report.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,150
    Sharon...I have a very difficult time believing that Lentz could possibly be that ill-prepared for testimony under oath, before Congress. Moreover, if he's Toyota's "main guy" in the U.S, Toyota's largest market, their Chief Operating Officer as well and, as he stated..."I'm just a sales and marketing guy", I find it more than just a little disingenuous on his part.

    He has so little knowledge of the problems his company's vehicles are experiencing? His mantra was the continuation of what we heard in the past.....floor mats....sticky pedals. Finally, after expert testimony (which Toyota tried to impeach, even with no engineering experts of their own to testify....not even Exponent) by Prof. Gilbert, Lentz wants us to believe that Toyota didn't even think it could be an electronics and/or software issue? That possibility never crossed their minds, at all? Even when there was so much evidence when their vehicles were causing accidents, and even deaths...up to 70% of them not related to the alleged floormats or sticky pedals? That they investigated and subsequently dismissed that as a cause?

    As one Congressman pointed out, Lentz had a gaggle of lawyers behind him. No Toyota engineers were there to my knowledge. They did parade some Toyota employees to the hearing. I'm sure they got an all expense paid trip to D.C., full pay while they were there. Was that supposed to elicit some sort of ill-found patriotism? More likely, those folks are worried about losing their jobs in this Toyota fiasco.

    Then, they had some of their dealers there. What would any sane person expect the dealers to say..."Toyota/Lexus vehicles are unsafe, built with shoddy quality"? The dealers livelihood depends on Toyota, too. Of course, they need to support Toyota. That's their bread and butter.

    I doubt we'll hear anything to different from Mr Toyoda today. He can do the same song and dance Lentz did ("I don't know....I don't know"). Plus, he has the added buffer by having a translator, which is probably also a lawyer.

    I've stated before, I don't for a second believe that Mr Toyoda isn't fluent in English. At least part of his education was done in the U.S....and MBA to be exact. Hell, I couldn't pass basic U.S. high school algebra if I couldn't speak English.
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    edited February 2010
    Toyota Commitment TV commercial

    They have a fix for their recalls?

    A fix? Really? Seems like news to Toyota U.S.A. President Jim Lentz.
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    Yes, Lentz did walk around questions yesterday.

    And yes, 70% of complaints are still not addressed.

    I felt Kane was very well prepared, and he most certainly distributed he had most knowledge about all the facts. No one there knew as much as he did of this SUA/UA timeline. I realize some may feel he is an ambulance chaser. BUT FACT REMAINS HE IS ONLY FIGHTING FOR US TO KEEP US SAFE!!! Him paying Gilbert a tiny amount of money, $1800, plus $4000 in equipment needed to complete test, & $150 is nothing compared to the $1,000,000+++ Toyota has PAID & used Exponent for in their trials, and now this present research. Toyota and NHTSA could have called Gilbert too when he called to say he found something. Don't forget University had to approve all of this.

    I just hope Gilbert is ready for a fight back from Exponent & Toyota. Legally Toyota will want his findings blatantly destroyed.

    I sure wish Toyota had not gone back again to Exponent. I kept hoping they could step to the plate at these hearings. So far not impressed yesterday. But story continues today - maybe I will see something good???? If I hear an attack against Gilbert presented, I sort of feel report will be fully analyzed and picked apart. Too much media publicity & pressure.
  • You can read Toyoda's and LaHood's prepared testimony here:

    http://www.c-span.org/
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    edited February 2010
    Heck on that, just watch it live. Body motions tell ALOT more.

    Congressional Investigation Hearings Today
  • at the hearings because Lentz is president of Toyota Motors Sales USA. They should have had the president of Toyota Manufacturing and Engineering North America (TEMA) who is Seiichi Sudo (if he is still there) The hearings are a meaningless dog and pony show.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,087
    >It's about the pressure Congress is putting on Toyota

    I hardly can imagine that Congress, being years late and dollars short on this safety problem via their NHSTA arm, has any interest in furthering GM's interests by critiquing Toyota.

    > didn't know you were now one of our hosts.

    Thank you for the compliment. I have often thought about applying for one of the host positions as any become available. You might consider it also. :blush:
  • Jon Linkov (Cosnumer Reports) was on ABC’s Good Morning LIES ON CAMERA. I QUOTE LEXUS LS460L goes through avoidance maneuver very well. SEE VIDEO -- CONSUMER REPORTS A FRAUD: Consumer Reports top rated Lexus LS 460L posts the second poorest speed in Consumer Reports avoidance avoidance maneuver. I QUOTE CONSUMER REPORTS TEST DESCRIPTION ************** A vehicle with good braking and emergency handling can help you avoid an accident. Here are the highs and lows in our dry braking test (from 60 mph) and AVAIDANCE MANUEVER WHICH HELPS US JUDGE HOW CAPABLE A VEHICLE IS WHEN A DRIVER IS TRYING TO STER AROUND AN OBSTICLE; THE HIGHER ITS SPEED, THE BETTER ***************
    After highly recommending the dangerous Toyota Corolla which may be recalled for light and vague steering (Consumer Reports words), Consumer Reports Dare to TOP RATE the Lexus LS460 which posted the lowest speeds in CRs AVOIDANCE MANUEVER

    TEST RESULTS: Lincoln Town Car (dated 30 year old design) 47.5MPH Lexus LS460 L 48.5 MPH, Mercury Grand Marquis 50MPH (dated 30 year old design), Toyota Avalon 50MPH Kia Amanita.

    Consumer Reports DARE rate the LEXUS LS460L a top score of 99 out of a 100. Did I mention, this is the same magazine that highly rated the Corolla? Safety takes a back seat to selling magazines at Consumer Reports.
    http://blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2010/02/consumer-reports-top-picks-on-good- -morning-america.html
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,150
    revit...after trying not to, LaHood finally came out and said it under oath...."Toyotas (Lexus) on the recall list are unsafe. Get them to the dealer immediately."

    He also said that the NHTSA would be "in the weeds" investigating the electronics/software of Toyotas and Lexus.

    Whether Toyota likes it or not, after that investigation, there will be yet another recall......probably much larger than the current one.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    "..could possibly be that ill prepared.."

    No other outcome is possible unless Congress begins to look "behind the curtain".

    Get someone deep inside NipponDenso, Denso US, on the hot seat.

    Toyota/etc probably doesn't even get to look at the firmware source code, let alone debug/troubleshoot it. Not that anyone at Toyota/etc would understand it anyway.
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