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Toyota Halts Sales of Popular Models - Accelerator Stuck Problem Recall

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Comments

  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    Yes, it could very well be a way to avoid complaints, but also still feel legal issues exist as well.

    Thanks for interpreting my interaction with that agent. Smile - he did get a little upset at me. I know I made him even more upset when I kept smiling and wouldn't move. Oh well. Was resolved. I will evaluate further to see if I continue with this dealership service center or not. .
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,683
    you must know more about it than i do. when i went back i didn't see anything about a 3-31-10 drop dead date. sorry for the terminology. :blush:
  • That's right, rounded up slightly it's only one million cars. A million here, a million there, pretty soon you're talking a few cars. :)
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    From the google finance market page. did Toyota search for market share price - lots of news releases there.Can expand search.

    Whoops it is until 2013 not 2010. Sorry about that

    Toyota Motor Corporation To Replace Oil Hose In 933,800 Cars-Reuters
    2:50pm EST
    Reuters reported that Toyota Motor Corporation will replace an oil hose in some 933,800 vehicles in the United States due to the risk of a potential leak that if left untreated could damage the engine. On some Camry, Avalon, Rav4 and Lexus vehicles equipped with V6 engines, the rubber portion of the engine oil hose may develop a small hole, potentially causing oil leakage and engine failure. The service campaign covers 2007-2010 model year Camry, 2005-2009 Avalon, 2006-2009 Rav4, 2007-2008 Lexus ES 350 and 2007-2009 RX 350 vehicles. Owners of the vehicles can have the oil hose fixed at Toyota dealerships at no charge under a safety campaign that will run until March 31, 2013. - - - - - (repeated)
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,683
    edited March 2010
    with all the other issues going on, i find it difficult to believe all the affected vehicles can be upgraded with the 'fix' by the end of the month.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,179
    >Toyota Motor Corporation will replace an oil hose in some 933,800 vehicles in the United States

    It looks like toyota is doing more to help unemployment, at least of mechanics and service-related personnel, than our government is. All mechanics, sorry technicians, are probably working on accelerator pedals and engines leaking oil.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,991
    Don't forget the Corolla steering issue. That could be even worse than UA. If the cars do as owners claim. They can give you the ride of your life. Toyota has not recalled as they do not know what causes the problem. More cars sent to market with poor testing.

    This bit from Toyota should be a real confidence builder if you own a 2009-10 Corolla.

    Toyota sold nearly 1.3 million Corollas worldwide last year, including nearly 300,000 in the United States, where it trailed only Camry as Toyota's most popular model.

    The executive, Shinichi Sasaki, said drivers may feel as though they are losing control over the steering, but it was unclear why. He mentioned problems with the braking system or tires as possible underlying causes. U.S. officials are also investigating.


    Is the Toyota spokesman saying the Corolla also has braking issues? We know they sell their vehicles with the cheapest tires known to man.
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    A first in USA Kia Plant just opened - over 1000+ workers. That will help also.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,699
    edited March 2010
    Basically Toyota has let the customer do the testing of their vehicles the last 10 years and they did not keep up with the complaints.

    Sadly, what you are saying may indeed be truth here. Hearing that 911 tape on you tube was heartbreaking. They must have been terrified. And for what?

    Toyota should've dove in to this and fixed these problems years ago and calling anyone hysterical about it now is just being a sourpuss. And a griper and poor sport.

    Those poor people in the off-duty CHP Officer's rental Lexus. It would be awful to be riding in an out-of-control missile, one that will only stop once it's crashed in to something. And it is wrong logic to blame the driver, even an off-duty CHP Officer "who should've known how to drive better."

    Anyone who will take their emotions out of this can see that that is faulty and unfair logic. Fix your dad-gum cars Toyota and fix them right. This is ridiculous. Maybe just dip in to all of those Executive retirement funds or something. Spend lavishly on safety. Honestly convince us that you've carefully and fully-completely fixed all affected cars. Don't skip a single needy Toyota, either. Fix them all. You've been living high on the hog for years. You've had Consumer Reports in your pocket praising all of your rigs ad naseum(literally naseum AFAIC)for years upon boring years. I haven't really been impressed, though. Didn't believe all the praise and hype.

    Remind me to shun any and all Toyota products from now on. And ever.

    And. Ever. Period. Amen. Don't let your mind wander to a Randy Travis song at this point. Even if it should do something like that. Over and out.

    2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS

  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    I don't mind the updates to improve a small defect they find. But to not tell me - I do get upset. I see this as deceit, even though it is good. for me. I see it as if they deceive me here, they will/may deceive me elsewhere. The other may not be good.

    I just would like to see a more honest approach. Tell me. Update. Oh ok.. No big deal. Smile - Just my personal opinion.
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    Great response!

    The all inclusive resulting effects caused/inflicted as a result of SUA/UA are quite numerous and usually not considered/mentioned when addressing. You did - everyone who shares road with these vehicles/bystanders.
  • popsavalonpopsavalon Posts: 231
    Sharon, and others, to see what a disaster the VVTi oil line fix really is, Google the site toyotav6oillinescandal. Toyota is replacing the existing rubber line with another rubber line at the dealers, but they started using all metal lines at the factory in mid 2008. Certain vehicles, Lexus and RAV4, have had the metal lines for several years. Just like the UA, there are numerous documented instances of the problems .
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    TOKYO, March 2 (Reuters) - Toyota Motor Corp said on Tueday that its campaign to replace oil hoses that could potentially leak and damage the engine would reach 1.6 million cars globally.

    Toyota had said on Monday that it would replace a hose in some 933,800 vehicles in the United States due to the risk of a potential leak and engine failure. It is not considered a safety issue and the vehicles are not being recalled, Toyota said.

    The 1.6 million figure includes 76,000 car owners in Canada, 45,000 owners in Japan, an additional 315,000 owners in the United States and 230,000 owners in a total of 90 other countries including Europe, a Toyota spokeswoman in Tokyo said.

    image
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,179
    >Toyota had said on Monday that it would replace a hose in some 933,800 vehicles

    Are the replacements metal lines or are they still rubber hoses?
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,162
    ...to build a good reputation, but only a couple of months to totally trash it. To paraphrase the last lines of "White Heat": Toyota. It made it to the top of the world and it blew up right in its face.
  • beachfish2beachfish2 Posts: 177
    "There's no hysteria...."

    We must be reading different posts and watching different news shows. There certainly is hysteria.

    John
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,232
    Well, I suppose you could call it hysteria if safety coverups, withholding evidence and documents requested and required by NHTSA as the Congressional Oversight Committee states.

    You can call it hysteria if you like. I'll call it what it is.....a lack of regard and compliance with U.S. regulations and laws. This is now way past what the cause and alleged fixes for Toyota's UA problems.

    Electornics/software glitches, floormats and sticky pedals are the least of Toyota's problems right now.
  • popsavalonpopsavalon Posts: 231
    Revit, Toyota's fix for vehicles with ruptured oil lines has been to replace the defective part with another rubber line. There is an all metal line available (Toyota has been using it on new V-6 vehicles for over a year), but dealers make all sorts of excuses about installing it. Toyota is also saying this is not a safety issue, but I would say that dumping all the engine oil under the wheels of a vehicle at highway speed might qualify. I purchased the metal line for under $40, and got it installed under warranty on my 2007 Avalon BEFORE I had a problem.

    Google toyotav6oillinescandal for a very comprehensive site about how bad this problem really is.
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,162
    It'll just be hysteria until he or a friend or relative is killed or injured. Then it'll be a serious issue that must be immediately addressed.
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,162
    Why would Toyota use a rubber line in the first place? Doesn't motor oil eat rubber?
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    I googled and found it interesting. Must research more. H-mmmm. Modern day technology helps public find out many facts that in past were probably kept from us. This is quite good.
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    Re: Japan

    "Ministry officials note that a small fraction of incidents make their way to the ministry because most drivers report auto malfunctions to their dealers. And in Japan dealers and manufacturers are under no obligation to give that information to the government, unless the company believes it failed to comply with national safety standards.

    For the government to order a recall, it must have proof of a potentially dangerous defect, which is difficult to find without cooperation from the automaker."

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/02/business/02toyota.html?pagewanted=2&hp

    I still have not confimed this report from NY Times, but does reveal US citizens must be cautious when evaluating statistics from other countries & the possible questions of those national safety agencies those countries have set up. Does appear at least Japan and China may have not established good national safety organizations to protect their citizen's safety.

    Toyota may control the complaints in these countries?? Does anyone else know/have more info??
  • popsavalonpopsavalon Posts: 231
    I would speculate that the rubber line was (is) cheaper than the all metal line. Failure mode is typically leak or rupture after 30-50K miles. Strategy of current fix may be that another rubber line will probably move the next failure past any vehicle engine warranty period. Toyota quietly went to all metal lines on new North American V-6 vehicles in mid year 2008.

    Toyota has not acknowledged that loss of all engine oil at highway speed probably results in a severly damaged engine. The low oil light does not come on.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Posts: 3,062
    Article in WSJ on 2-25-10 indicated that Ford had more reported incidents of unintended acceleration than did Toyota. From 2004 to 2009, based on NHTSA data, Ford had 2,806 complaints, compared with Toyota's 2,515. General Motors Co. had 1,192. Link : http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703510204575085531383717288.html?K- EYWORDS=ford+unintended+acceleration
    See graph in article comparing Ford to Toyota over last 20 years. Don’t recall that Ford problems over that time were highly publicized. Not defending Toyota here, just more info.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,232
    w....as Ford said, they're cruise controls were pinpointed as a problem, and did a recall to rectify it. As Lentz has said, even with the floormats and sticky pedal fixes, Toyota doesn't know the cause in about 70% of reported cases.

    Yet, Toyota states unequivocally that electronics/software are NOT the problem. Yet, they offer no evidence that brought them to that conclusion. Therein lies their problem.

    There's been expert testimony that their electronics/software can indeed cause the problem, Toyota dismisses it flatly.

    The one thing they can do, they won't do. That is install the brake over ride to their system. In some cases that's a simple reflash. In other cases, they'll have to replace the ECU/EPROM to accept the reflash. Installing the brake over ride systems won't cure their UA problem (as it sounds like they're using code from as far back as 1996, which may be faulty).. But, it will offer a simple workaround if one experiences UA in a Toyota....that is, just tap the brake pedal.

    It appears that the reason Toyota doesn't want to institute this reflash for UA in their vehicles is because it would cost them too much to do so.

    IMHO, you can put no price on public safety....especially given the first person testimony and facts that Toyota chooses to ignore. One life lost is 1 too many. Toyota doesn't share that view, though.

    WE can't change the past. We can't bring back the lives of the CHP's family. We can't change the nightmarish experience of Ms. Smith in her Lexus.

    Toyota can affect the lives and well being of those who drive their vehicles going forward, however by installing the brake over ride. Again, they see it as important, since they're installing it in their new vehicles. However, they do not want to bear the expense of doing it for the millions of vehicles that could be affected from as far back as the mid-'90s.

    For the record, I don't expect them to install brake over ride of say a '96 Camry. However, it would be reasonable to expect them to do it over the vehicles they've produced....say, over the last 5 or 6 years. Before that time, it's hard to gauge the condition of a pre-2004 model. So, to me MY 2004 Toyota/Lexus vehicles would be reasonable to have the reflash done. But, they flatly refuse to do even that.
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    The blogger that referred to the UA/SUA viral publicity and pressure is entitled to his opinion. This is USA. But his own documented words do provide some psychological evidence/substantiation into his personal views and character and integrity values. His factual comments claimed can therefore be analyzed & some assumptions formed - he either does not know all the facts, or he doesn't care about the welfare of other people at all. Why? Those who do know facts, have so far been forming an entirely different view. These statistics are people, not just numbers.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,991
    From the WSJ article:
    "When you analyze NHTSA data and remove the complaints due to the speed control deactivation switch, which we recalled in 2005, Ford's performance in this category has improved each year and our complaints have been significantly lower than Toyota's each year since 2005."

    Ford has been doing something Toyota has not. At least that is how it appears.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Posts: 3,062
    Those poor people in the off-duty CHP Officer's rental Lexus. It would be awful to be riding in an out-of-control missile, one that will only stop once it's crashed in to something. And it is wrong logic to blame the driver, even an off-duty CHP Officer "who should've known how to drive better."

    Do agree, wrong (kind of) to blame the driver.

    Just found this thread, don't know whether this was discussed previously. But, does this Toyota issue point to the dummyfication of car driving whereby the lowest common denominator driver "can" command a vehicle down the road with minimal or no ability to solve unexpected roadway or vehicle problems? Would a car driving enthusiast who experienced the Toyota condition in say a German brand sports car be able to cope quickly and bring the car to a stop?

    I had a sudden acceleration problem years ago on a 77 Chevy Caprice Classic with Cruise Control. Car was out of warrantee and I started to experience acceleration while in cruise mode. Hitting brake pedal did not cut off cruise, I had to hit the cruise button to turn off. After a few of these incidents, I went under hood and permanently disconnected the cruise. I did not take back to a Chevy dealer, nor report it.

    Also had experience in a Plymouth years ago driving on 2-lane US numbered highway. Suddenly, I felt nothing under my right foot, car started slowing. Quickly pulled over on shoulder, got down on floor, discovered that gas pedal fell off linkage and then reconnected it.
  • steverstever Ex Yooper, en route to New MexicoPosts: 40,504
    edited March 2010
    Would a car driving enthusiast who experienced the Toyota condition in say a German brand sports car be able to cope quickly and bring the car to a stop?

    Say, oh, an Audi?

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