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Comments
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
The cat is out of the bag now with this stupid Toyota witch hunt !! :shades:
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Toyota/Lexus...safest and most reliable cars made. This whole witch hunt is a lame attempt to coerce Toyota to go union. They are too smart for that.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I am with you on hoping Toyota can maintain their non UAW status in the USA. I cannot see any benefit for the consumer. That should be the ultimate goal of any business, to please the customer.
Auto manufacturers that don't sell cars are usually the ones that are doomed. mitsubishi has four tenths of one percent sales YTD. Sort of a niche manufacturer along with Saab and Volvo.
So if you want to be patiotic and help American workers and manufacturers...BUY TOYOTA !!
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
The news reports are great news for Toyata. But people are jumping to conclusions this/these reports are the final results. I did notice some of news media report releases title their reports psychologically influencing people to reach conclusion tests are done. And is not true.
As for the EDR readouts - present law governing EDR's has not even been implemented yet. Not until 2012-2013. Each EDR manufacturer does have error ratios that exist. EDR's are still under Wild Wild West Rules - no laws. Lots of IF's are/seem to be still present. Everyone do some research on EDR law and the history.
I am still in pending mode for results of NASA investigation(completion date ??) and Academy of Science study which will be completed in about a year. STUDIES ARE STILL NOT COMPLETED. STILL NO VERDICT IF ELECTRONICS CAUSING SUA.
I imagine you are still in a wait and see mode concerning the Audi SUA issues that occurred about 25 or 30 years ago also. After coming up with nothing except wild theories for 30 years most every rational human being is satisfied that it was nothing more than mass hysteria and driver error and moved on.
Maybe those Swedes will come up with some provable, believable scenario yet !! If they fail maybe we can put the Bulgarians on the job !
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
As of today, there is still no evidence that electronic problems were to blame or even that there even were any electronic problems.
John
Since NHTSA contracted NASA and National Academy of Science studies on possibility of auto electronics causing SUA are not done - NO ONE CAN CLAIM THEY HAVE PROVEN AND FOUND THE CAUSE OF SUA. Sorry this is just a known fact. If they have found something, they sure are not bringing their SUA study findings forward for public release..
Studies are still pending!!! I may have your opinion once studies completed. I need to review these study results first and evaluate those studies.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
That was a 1980s Audi model that did not have the sophisticated electronics that are in current vehicles. This is a new issue and not 60 minutes leading the attack. It is the NHTSA. Time will tell. We got 29 more years to follow the stories.
Through manipulating the transmission, he managed to get the Audi 5000 to move on its own, but the 60 Minutes feature never brought to light that the car in question had been manipulated. “We were appalled that 60 Minutes put this thing on the air,” stated John Pollard, a principal investigator hired by NHTSA for its study. “It was a stunt . It does not represent a real-life situation.”
While the 60 Minutes debacle is interesting history, it represented a crushing reality to the Audi brand, nearly driving it into bankruptcy. Even after the brand was vindicated by the NHTSA, and Audi told the world the truth via full-page ads in newspapers and magazines throughout North America, it took over a decade for a return to the sales levels it enjoyed pre-60 Minutes.
It looks likely that the nightmare is recurring, but this time its not a corrupt TV series making up stories for ratings, but the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) heading up the investigation.
Just like in the 5000 incidents, automakers are stating that driver error is the culprit in the majority of cases. But current plaintiff lawyers allege that the high level of electronic devices and sensors are the reasons behind the recent resurgence of sudden acceleration cases. Either way, incidents involving Ford, GM and Toyota cars will be soon forgotten while those surrounding the Audi brand will long be remembered.
deja vu all over again
And, "it ain't over till the fat lady sings"
The current incident will no doubt result in a failsafe, independent, brake/throttle override required of all upcoming vehicles.
And just maybe a push, release, push gas pedal rachet/lock if the driver wishes to quickly and suddenly go WOT. No WOT without "arming" (push/release/push) the gas pedal first.
DBW electronics would recognize the initial gas pedal rate of depression as a "panic" type depression and would not allow the throttle plate to open.
Audi 1980's 4-5 recalls are old news and the number of research articles available are insufficient to evaluate those recalls.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I can only think of 6 possible causes for these incidents. Sticky pedals, floor mats or some other foreign object under the pedals, driver error and/or panic, someone trying a scam, some unknown sort of electronic problem, and little green men from mars.
There is plenty of evidence pointing to the first 4 defendants, but the only evidence concerning electronic issues is all exclusionary and tends to show this defendant is innocent.
No evidence to convict the little green men, but none to exclude them either, so technically they have a greater chance of being guilty than electronic issues.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I do love your little reference to "little green men from Mars." Ha, tell me when you see them!
Finding a problem with auto electronics that may cause SUA, etc. would be quite difficult considering the number of codes now in US autos. I would have to read and evaluate the actual NASA study. Talk to my family expert.
Both you and I, everyone else could learn from the full speech documents of the expert engineer at the National Academy of Science Study committee members meeting May, 20, 2010. Outline bullet point guidelines were very interesting. Appears his speech addressed many of these auto electronic issues/discussions we keep having. But full speech is not available, nor online.
And we may never get an honest factual answer due to present US laws, multiple other exisitng factors.
Ha, doubt people will stop driving though!
I was reading an old Road & Track in my doc's office earlier this week and the cartoon on the last page was of a roadster sitting in a showroom. The salesperson was extolling the U-Drive option package that was newly available - for a little bit extra, the package came with a clutch pedal, wind-up windows and a folding road map.
The jury may still be out on the Audi SUA story. Last I heard, it was back before a lower court in Chicago after 20+ years of appeals.
I smell another recall. Just found out that my 2005 Toyota Highlander needs to have the drive shaft replaced, after only 80,000 miles on the road.
My mechanic called a Toyota dealer for the part and the parts guy said, and I quote,"These Toyota Highlander drive shafts are FLYING OFF THE SHELVES!"
Haven't had my car fixed yet. Anyone have a suggestion as to how to proceed?
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef00024/4952#MSG4952
When a part is flying off the shelves, there's no issue?
No need to be nasty or sarcastic.
The 2010 Tacoma has a drive shaft issue.
Why is it so unbelievable to think the 2005 Highlander does?
Gotta keep those failure posts about problems separated as much as possible by keeping them in different forums rather than collectives. :P
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Below, say, 10MPH, the gas pedal must first be applied, then FULLY RELEASED, and only then it will allow a WOT condition on the next depression. Or even, again at some low speed, requiring that the brake be applied, even lightly, before WOT DBW will be enabled.
Mistakenly hitting the gas instead of the brake pedal would have no result, acceleration wise.
The obvious answer is that certain people should ride the bus instead of trying to drive.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
If a driver suddenly depresses, FULLY depresses, the gas pedal without having been braking, "just" previously braking, and the vehicle is stopped or going below 10-15 MPH the modified DBW firmware would simply leave the engine idling.
Think of how you would use the clutch in this case. You would have to closely coordinate the clutch disengagement with gas pedal depression. So what would be so different if you had to "arm" the gas pedal in order to go WOT...?
Thanks to the Audi episode we already have to, have learned to, depress the brake in order to put an automatic into gear. So what would be so different about having to do the same thing in order to "arm", release the DBW throttle for functionality...??
And who knows, there just may be enough unused firmware memory space in many modern vehicles that the above technique could be "back-fitted" via reflash.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
The idea is to detect that situation and prevent the DBW throttle from opening beyond the idle position unless/until the gas pedal is fully released and then reapplied.
We already have BA, Brake Assist, systems that detect PANIC braking via rate of brake pedal application so why not the same for/on the gas pedal.
This "failsafe" need not apply if the brake pedal is just previously released and/or the vehicle is already traveling above ~20 MPH.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Your idea has some merit, but the car companies would never try to institute something like this for fear of an avalanche of lawsuits.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460