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Toyota Halts Sales of Popular Models - Accelerator Stuck Problem Recall

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Comments

  • roho1roho1 Posts: 317
    You've well documented more than once here your distrust of Exponent. We get it.

    In my experience, when one hires a consultant they first ask what it is you want to prove. They then set out to show that. Anyone that takes a consultants findings as gospel is a fool. As you say one has to research and investigate their findings when they come out. I assume in this case the findings will be reviewed and poured over the coals hopefully by an independent and not Kane's Attorneys and engineers. We'll see.

    On another note, I saw a news report about how ABC doctored the Brian Ross-Gilbert video. They showed the tachometer racing with the car in park!
    ABC report
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,993
    In my experience, when one hires a consultant they first ask what it is you want to prove.

    I agree that is what is done. If you want to win your case in court you get the sleaziest attorneys and witnesses you can find. That goes for both sides of the case. What I don't understand is why Toyota would not want to find their problems with their cars and fix them rather than just fight it all in Court. Maybe they think that is the cheapest route to take.

    I think Dr Gilbert's research was legitimate if a bit naive. He probably thought that Toyota would welcome his evidence as a means to resolve their UA problems. When they snubbed his efforts he went to the media, as any honest researcher would do. It was only smart business on Kane's part to snatch Gilbert up as an expert witness. Just another screw up by Toyota. Probably attributed to the US executives inability to make any decisions. And Toyota policy of secrecy.
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    And I have not seen any reports written regarding Town's response to Issa's letter. Interesting.
  • tomjavatomjava Posts: 136
    Lexus already had repaired Smith's auto.." The exterior fix is most likey. Do you think they replaced the engine, ecu/ecm? Do you NHTSA didn't verify the car engine, ecu/ecm with its VIN before bought it? I don't think so.

    NHTSA intentionally bought this car to molest it in A-Z ways to find out whether UA is possible as Dilbert and other experts in this forum claimed.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,182
    >tachometer racing with the car in park!

    If you read the discussion, you see that ABC said the video shot during the moving event was shakey (imagine that, GAWKER fans) so they used a stationary shot of the tachometer. Interestingly the tachometer was racing due to the same kind of event that caused the runaway acceleration while moving.

    A little bit of poetic license to get a good video shot of an actual event that wasn't shaking.

    No surprises here folks. Move along.
  • roho1roho1 Posts: 317
    Agreed the results weren't different but the point is ABC didn't tell you that in their report. Only after it was discovered that they doctored the video did they offer a qualification. Sleeze reporting not poetic license here. This is about safety.
  • roho1roho1 Posts: 317
    Stanford research versus research at Southern Illinis Univ. This should be interesting.

    yahoo report
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    Toyota legally would not want to admit any electronic problems. If they do these statement admissions would be used against them in court. Federal investigation, SEC, FBI raid of three of their suppliers, law suits from individuals in accidents are already present.

    Toyota's attorneys appear to have hired Exponent. Attempt to hide/suppress any Exponent reports regarding Gilberts findings may come.

    Most Universities usually must demonstrate more nonbiased stances. And most times are the least biased. Since University had approved the study, I would assume University had already reviewed the possible legal, monetary repercussions, details of Gilbert's study w financial payments & auto manufacturers corporate pressure that could result. Toyota does donate autos and had given $100,000 to auto technology department. None of us know if Dr Gilbert is still researching or not. He presented study findings as a preliminary report. University could force Gilbert to drop his investigation, and not allow him use of auto technology department service center for further study..
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,182
    >Only after it was discovered that they doctored the video did they offer a qualification. Sleeze reporting not poetic license here. This is about safety.

    Hmmmm.
    I think that would pretty well describe toyota's handling of these problems from 2002, wouldn't it. :P
  • jdm9jdm9 Posts: 38
    Sorry some of you (sharon, gag, ww so forth have to see my preamble but Ive been busy in the shop) and have come up with a gadget. Im gone again but am always interested in your comments. .

    To all the people saying , just turn off the key. Under normal, (gas pedal stuck) circumstances, turning off the key works. You still have enough brakes to stop and the steering reverts to manual with no power assist ,it is much harder to turn but its still manageable to most able bodied people, It seems preferable to crashing at full throttle. I have tried shutting the key off under full throttle in a 2010 Tundra several times up to 150kmh and it worked. HOWEVER , what we dont know is what exactly is happening with the computer when someone is experiencing electronic unintended accelleration (EUA). The limited data available from when this is occuring , if you beleive that it does in fact occur, (I beleive that the reports of EUA are too numerous to discount and so have chosen to accept that it does indeed happen) primarily comes from people that are in a panicked mode or sadly comes from their vehicles after their deaths. I beleive it is possible that the computer, when a vehicle is undergoing EUA is acting similarly to your own home computer when it has frozen. Since the computer in the drive by wire vehicles controls some or all of the braking , throttle, ignition, transmission and other systems incorporated into the vehicle, it is also possible that in its frozen state, similar to your home PC, the cars computer will not respond to placing in nuetral, shutting off the key or application of brakes. The parking brake has limited stopping power. I have installed a proptotype switch in my Tundra that bypasses and is isolated from the computer. When you switch it on the motor dies instantly. Call me paranoid, but it gives me peice of mind that I did not have before I installed it.

    Cheers
    JDM

    Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2010/03/05/bc-toyota-crash-lawsu- it.html#socialcomments#ixzz0hW3jWdgb
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    Yes, the brilliant minds of those Stanford PHD's who work for Exponent, Director of Stanford University auto technology research department engineers against Dr. Gilbert the professor of auto technology department for auto techs from University of Southern Illinois will be interesting.

    Stanford's Center for Automotive Research is funded by a group of auto companies, including Toyota. Slight problem does exist since research funded by auto manufacturers, but Standford is one of the top universities in Nation. Stanford will be a big defense for Toyota though. Exponent has multiple Stanford grads so not just a coincidence here.

    Must watch this presentation. Will be interesting to see if they release any written study finding reports???
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    jdm, good for you!!!
  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,065
    How does a company like Exponent that has earned such a reputation continue to do business? If a company has no credibility it serves no purpose to use them.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    edited March 2010
    Fact: NHTSA determined defects in Toyota vehicles resulted in injury and death.
    Fact: Toyota admitted there was a defect and initiated recall to repair vehicles.
    Fact: Driver error is the identified cause in some vehicles. Past, present, and no reason to expect them not to occur in the future when there is a brake and accelerator pedal present.

    tomjavaBy using the data above, I can conclude that VW has twice as many complaints about unintended acceleration than Toyota in 2009. Toyota's getting crucified for something that isn't particularly uncommon or unusual.

    That is your opinion Tom. I do not agree with your conclusion. NHTSA has not identified any defects in VW's leading to unintended acceleration. VW is not recalling vehicles for unintended acceleration. No evidence to conclude there is a problem with VW's.

    Audi was crucified by the media in the 80's. Cause was identified as "pedal placement error", not a mechanical defect. Fault being operator error or pedal design may be argued without agreement.

    Attempt to shift blame to VW or make VW a scapegoat for Toyota's acknowledged defects will not be allowed to go unchallenged.

    Toyota failed to include a fail-safe in their accelerator/brake design and is in process of adding the feature. Fail-safe feature is present in current VW's and all past VW's with drive-by-wire throttle systems.

    VW utilizes a bottom hinged accelerator pedal design that prevents floor mat pedal entrapment, Toyota does not.

    Toyota is the manufacturer with the known problem, don't try to scapegoat another manufacturer.
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    Exponent is very good defense firm. Look them up. They have some brilliant individuals working for them. Corporations with a vested interest to pursue or that are in trouble & need a defense will seek these types of firms. PGE chromium contamination here in California was exposed publicly by some dedicated, diligent individuals. Exponent & their former CEO Dennis Paustenbach, fraudulant scientific study. Etc. Took almost 10 years to do though. Tobacco companies needed these firms to protect their own interests despite the proven health issues from tobacco use. Etc. Business is good.

    This firm wins alot, has lost some.
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    Thanks for the heads up on the article. Smile - after all that - we wait to see if Biller's documents ever mentioned again. Chairman's Town's letter to Toyota sure indicated problems. Now maybe - a whoops.
  • roho1roho1 Posts: 317
    Is this the Exponent forum or what? Please give it a rest. You've repeated these same bashings over and over. If I hear about PGE chromium one time I think I will go UA. :(
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,993
    I think there has been more negative postings on Kane and his group on the side of the Consumer. Toyota is trying to counter that with their sleazy choice of defense. I have always considered a good offense the best defense. If Toyota would get their engineering act together on their failing DBW systems, there would be little need for Kane or Exponent.

    If all Toyota did was hire Stanford to discredit Dr. Gilbert, they will accomplish little or nothing. The complaints will continue until Toyota fixes the problems.
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    I am so sorry you did not approve of me providing the "links" to the truth. That is the reason they were provided.

    We must be respectful of everyone's opinions.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,182
    >providing the "links" to the truth.

    I appreciate the links.
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    Thanks for responding. The one author David Michaels is the guy who heads OSHA.
  • beachfish2beachfish2 Posts: 177
    I can't handle the truth.

    I'll wait on the facts.

    I am, speaking of facts, getting 21.8 mpg on my new Highlander Limited. The 1700 miles on it have been mostly rural Interstate cruising at 75 and working to get around the packs of tractor trailers clogging the rolling hills and mountains.

    I wonder what I'd get if I'd slow down?

    John
  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,065
    21.8 mpg is suppose to be good? My Denali averages 10.9 with spirited driving, vette hits around 14 same with the Titan. Come to think about it all three are V8s.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,993
    You could have gotten a BMW X5 diesel and be getting 30 MPG without the fear of SUA. BMW is one of many companies that has engineered and tested their DBW before selling it to the public. And the X5 will blow that Highlander into the weeds.

    Toyota should have won the Olympic Gold for the Downhill. They are going downhill faster than any automaker in history.
  • winter2winter2 Posts: 1,798
    I have a 2005 Jeep Liberty Limited CRD (turbodiesel) 4X4. I live in the metro Washington DC area and going back and forth to work I average 23 MPG. On long interstate trips, 28 - 31 MPG.

    My Liberty has the aerodynamics of a brick and weighs in at over 4300 lbs. The engine is a 2.8L four cylinder turbodiesel that makes 295 lb-ft of torque. The same engine with the updated piezo injection makes 340 lb-ft of torque. Recently I saw a 2006 CRD for sale that had been modified and makes 395 lb-ft of torque and still gets over 26 MPG on the road.

    If you slowed down, you might get 23 MPG. If you traded it in for a diesel, you would definitely get better fuel economy and no unintended acceleration problems and brakes that work too.
  • steverstever Ex Yooper, just arrived in New MexicoPosts: 40,529
    If you don't want to read someone's post, please use your down arrow and go to the next one.

    Moderator
    Need help navigating? stever@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • roho1roho1 Posts: 317
    I have moved on to the next post in her case at least a half dozen times before. She has chosen this forum as a band stand to show her dislike of Exponent. If you don't believe me go back and read them, I have. I just thought it was time to point out she has made her point about Exponent and it was time to move on. I have no stake in Exponent and appreciate her pointing out their ways. Enough is enough, this is about Toyota, and she's wasting our time with the repeated Exponent bash here. Find another forum.
  • roho1roho1 Posts: 317
    I prefer to hear what they have to say before making a judgment on this.
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