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Toyota Halts Sales of Popular Models - Accelerator Stuck Problem Recall

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  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Toyota's response:

    Toyota Answers Questions About the Sticking Accelerator Pedal Recall
    Toyota answers questions that we see you are asking about the sticking accelerator pedal recall. Please also looks at Frequently Asked Questions For Sticking Accelerator Pedal Recall and Suspension of Sales on this site.

    1. Is my car safe to drive until a fix is issued?
    The condition is rare and generally does not occur suddenly. It seems to occur when the pedal mechanism becomes worn and, in certain conditions, the accelerator pedal may become harder to depress, slower to return or, in the worst case, stuck in a partially depressed position.

    2. What do I do if I experience a sticking accelerator pedal before the fix is finalized? Should I bring my car to a dealer?
    If you are experiencing this condition, immediately contact your nearest Toyota Dealer for assistance. No action is required at this time unless you feel you are experiencing this condition.

    For details on what you should do if you experience a sticking accelerator pedal while driving, please review the Frequently Asked Questions For Sticking Accelerator Pedal Recall and Suspension of Sales on this site.

    3. What is the actual issue affecting accelerator pedals?
    In rare instances, there is a possibility that the affected accelerator pedal may stick in a partially downward position or slowly return to the non-pressed position.

    4. Is there actually a problem with the vehicle’s computer/Electronic Control Unit?
    Absolutely not. Toyota has never found an incident of unintended acceleration caused by the vehicle’s computer/electronic control unit.

    5. Can I return my vehicle to Toyota if I purchased it in the five day period between the recall was announcement and Toyota stop sale on my vehicle? What are my options?
    Toyota will work with customers who have concerns about their vehicles on a case-by-case basis.

    6. How will Toyota handle fixing all affected vehicles in a timely manner?
    Toyota is currently finalizing its recall remedy plans including a rapid deployment strategy of said remedy. Please continue to visit this site for updates on the recall.

    7. Is this different than the Floor Mat Recall? If so, how?
    There are two different recalls. Some vehicles are affected by both.

    Sticking Pedal Accelerator Recall: The condition can occur in rare instances, over time, under certain environmental conditions - there is a possibility that certain accelerator pedal mechanisms may, mechanically stick in a partially depressed position or return slowly to idle position.

    Potential Floor Mat Interference with Accelerator Pedal Recall: This condition is the potential for an unsecured or incompatible driver’s floor mat to interfere with or entrap the accelerator pedal and cause it to get stuck in the wide open position. Toyota has determined that this condition can occur in vehicles in which the driver’s side floor mat is not compatible with the vehicle and/or is not properly secured.

    8. What if my vehicle is affected by both recalls? Which will be addressed first?
    It is Toyota’s intention to remedy both at the same time.

    9. Why are mechanically similar Lexus and Scion vehicles not affected by this recall?
    The recall affected pedal is confined to one of Toyota’s suppliers. That supplier’s pedals are not used on Lexus and Scion vehicles.

    10. Which models are affected by the sticky accelerator pedal recall/stop sale?
    Toyota’s accelerator pedal recall and suspension of sales is confined to the following Toyota Division vehicles:

    * Certain 2009-2010 RAV4,
    * Certain 2009-2010 Corolla,
    * 2009-2010 Matrix,
    * 2005-2010 Avalon,
    * Certain 2007-2010 Camry,
    * Certain 2010 Highlander,
    * 2007-2010 Tundra,
    * 2008-2010 Sequoia

    Highlander hybrids and Camry hybrids are not affected by this action and will remain for sale.

    Further, Camry, RAV 4, Corolla and Highlander vehicles with VINs that begin with "J" are not affected and will remain for sale.
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    For as much as you defend Toyota, you either work for them or own too much Toyota stock.

    First Toyota said it was the driver causing the problem, then they said it was the floor mat, now they want you to believe the pedal. Come on, this has been going on for years now, either this some bigger coverup going on or they have been focusing too much of their effort on growth and ignored quality along the way.

    Oh, and I really like the part of Toyota telling customers "if" they experience this problem, to bring the car into the dealer and they will fix. No they cannot because the so called pedal problem does not have a fix for existing customers yet as Toyota is more concerned about new sales so they are sending the pedals to the factories.

    Sorry, but this is just another poor excuse by Toyota trying to address another one of their quality problems under the rug. Think you need to go back and read up on the history of the Rustundra.

    Believe what you want, but seems this time Toyota has finally gotten what they have deserved, or should I say covered up, for years. :sick:
  • maple2maple2 Posts: 177
    The NHTSA since it couldn't find anything wrong in its own investigations decided that it had to do something in order to seem to be in charge. So it forced Toyota to do this bogus voluntary recall No 1 on reshaping the pedals and removing padding under the pedal. It placated the NHTSA.

    100% bogus....toyota in fact was the one that jumped the gun and tried to tell the world that there was nothing to see here its just those darn floor mats again. nothing else ...just floormats. That is when the NHTSA stepped in and said "not so fast there amigo, if you think it is the mats than your going to do something about it. BUT we are still going to get the real culprit and you will fix that too"

    Which is how we came to this latest gas pedal recall which is the real bogus issue because toyota admits that no accident has been caused by the "faulty pedal" .
    So what is causing the SUA? Who knows, "cough software cough" :lemon:
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,463
    >Because they are not yet sure the gas pedal assembly is the core problem.
    So divert the public's attention in the same way a magician does.

    I just read that the mechanism actually giving the position signal for the accelerator sensor is NOT the problem. That's what I inferred from the earlier toyo statements. A worker related to toyota said here that it's the brass bushings that jam. That is a different herring. So the bushings keep the actual pedal from returning to idle position. I find it amazing that toyota claimed the moisture presence affects the bushing and the axle within in their relative movement. The person in the disassembly video showed how strong the single return spring is.
  • 774774 Posts: 101
    http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/toyota-recall-gas-pedal-quick-fix-9696422

    Another video with some information about the current problem
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    Yeah, that is what I don't get, surprised Toyota didn't try issue a recall on the Floor Mats, oh, but wait, that wasn't even really the problem as they kept saying there was no problem and it was as a result of the driver.

    The pedal fix is yet another attempt to avoid the problem. Come on, how many people are doing to have to die or be injured before this is actually addressed?

    Presenting the new 2010 Toyota (doesn't really matter which of their models you pick):

    image
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 6,024
    Come on revit, it has been years since Toyota turned down your credit ap for that new Echo. Time to get over it. :P

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    ...with solid facts and recommendations with a knowledable source.

    Here is the AutoBlog link with an unemotional explanation based on fact along with solid recommendations on what to do in any modern vehicle where this might occur.

    video explanation of the potential CTS-made accelerator problem

    We're all gearheads here at Autoblog, with varying degrees of mechanical competence. But when the time comes to get technical – really technical – we inevitably hit up our own Sam Abuelsamid to get into the nitty gritty of modern automobiles.

    Sam spent the better part of two decades working on anti-lock brake, traction and stability control systems, which means he brings a particularly keen insight to the recent Toyota recall. So Mr. A sat down with AOL Autos' Reilly Brennan and the accelerator pedal from a 2009 Toyota Camry for an impromptu deep-dive into what's causing the unintended acceleration issue and what owners of the affected models can do if their throttle pedal is pinned to the floor. Check it out after the jump and be sure to share it with anyone you know who's manning one of the eight recalled vehicles.


    While AutoBlog is in no way 'in-the-know' about this issue it does present a balanced and knowledgable explanation with a seemingly knowledgable representative.
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    Come on revit, it has been years since Toyota turned down your credit ap for that new Echo. Time to get over it

    Yeah, you wish. :) I went with the 2009 Toyota Camry, my first Toyota, and am seriously regretting.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,463
    Someone posted this a few posts back apparent sent to toyota salespeople:

    "4. Is there actually a problem with the vehicle’s computer/Electronic Control Unit?
    Absolutely not. Toyota has never found an incident of unintended acceleration caused by the vehicle’s computer/electronic control unit."

    I will predict that toyota will rue that statement also.

    Is there a link for this post?
    Is there expert data or facts to substantiate it?
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    First, it was the driver causing the problem, sometimes.
    Second, it was the Lexus dealer causing the problem, sometimes.
    Third, there were no problems, simply fabrications, sometimes.
    Fourth, there were definitely people taking the opportunity to gain monetarily from the fallout of this issue, sometimes.
    Fifth, there were people who encountered sticky pedals, sometimes.

    Trying to sort all these out didn't happen at the first occurance or the 10th or the 100th occurance. Screaming 'Off with their heads' is what the crowds in France did in the 1800's. Having engineers take the time to identify the actual problem and then to design and test the right solution is 21st Century engineering.

    You yourself in a number of your own posts have said that CTS has stated that the incidents across 2+ million units is very very isolated. You also noted that they also have stated that no one has been injured or killed as a result of this issue. The hysteria that you're trying to foment is simply to generate attention.

    In the long view, this too shall pass and life will go on. Fixes will be installed and new pedals designed and installed and sales will resume.
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    Is there a link for this post?

    Here is the story that started it all:

    Toyota found to keep tight lid on potential safety problems
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    Then there was the response Toyota was forced to provide to save their image:

    Toyota responds to L.A. Times article

    image
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Nope I was 100% accurate. YOU said so in your own post. Here is what you wrote...

    toyota in fact was the one that jumped the gun and tried to tell the world that there was nothing to see here its just those darn floor mats again.

    So what did the NHTSAfinally 'force' Toyota to do in the 4.6 million unit recall back in November? It forced Toyota to reshape the gas pedal to allow for greater clearance underneath in the unlikely event that still another stupid person might stack more than one floormat on top of the OEM floormat and then not secure it properly.

    Then as a double precaution it 'forced' Toyota to take padding out from the floorpan underneath the pedal to allow for greater clearance underneath, again in the unlikely event that still another stupid person might stack more than one floormat on top of the OEM floormat.

    This was the November recall No 1. The NHTSA wanted to be the hero in solving the floormat issue. It was all bogus IMO, but those are the facts. Disputing them is senseless.

    This new issue with the pedal is entirely different.
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    For those that still want to convince themself that Toyota took aggressive action for the sake of the consumer...Turns out, the decision to stop producing these vehicles wasn't made by Toyota alone. The Detroit News reports that Toyota is required by law to stop selling the vehicles since there is no fix available yet.

    Nevertheless, Toyota spokesman Mike Michels is reported saying that the company's decision to stop selling the recalled vehicles was voluntary, but that they also had a legal requirement to do so. How do you voluntary do something that you're obligated to do?

    Toyota was legally required to stop selling recalled models
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Yep absolutely agree. Good post.

    This is where Toyota slapped the LAT down for fabricating facts and misrepresenting Toyota's answers. I'm glad that you posted the reference to it. It's what shut up the LAT and stopped it in its tracks.
  • delthekingdeltheking Posts: 1,152
    Ho , ho, ho !! Now we know the real reason for Toyota bashing !!! :P Seriously,toyotas are really good vehicles.. They are just making a mountain of a molehill!!
    Are you selling your 09 Camry?? I am interested if the dealer lowballs you and if it is paid for ?? :shades:
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    This is where Toyota slapped the LAT down for fabricating facts and misrepresenting Toyota's answers. I'm glad that you posted the reference to it. It's what shut up the LAT and stopped it in its tracks.

    image image image

    Is that how you viewed it? Too funny cause the rest of us saw it as Toyota's continued cover up and more excuses.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    The facts speak for themselves. The LAT shup up after Toyota posted it's reponse.

    The long view is that the fixes will be made, new pedals will be installed and production/sales will resume.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,930
    i've watched a couple these 'dissect the pedal' videos.
    There is the pedal may not return due to some manufacturing flaw (see referenced video).
    There is the one additional floor mat could cause the pedal to not return.
    Does this cover all the North American problems?
    Why are the same vehicles being recalled in Asia and Europe?
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    The facts speak for themselves. The LAT shup up after Toyota posted it's reponse.

    The long view is that the fixes will be made, new pedals will be installed and production/sales will resume.


    Unfortunately, you are correct! However, that doesn't fix the problem that Toyota has tried to deny for over 5 years and denies there is a problem. So what is really causing the problem in Toyota vehicles remains to be seen.

    As someone else had already referenced:
    "My biggest concern is that most of the credible reports describe the incident in a way that cannot be explained by a stuck pedal. "I tapped the brake and the car took off", "I did not press down on the gas pedal", "I know my foot had hit the brake and not the gas". Since the cars computer has exclusive control over the throttle position at all times no matter what the driver does, this sounds more like a problem in the electronics. If a bug in the computer has it in la-la land, it may not be accepting any inputs from pedals or switches or anything to change the throttle. "
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    I don't think Toyota was legally required to stop selling anything.

    Until there is a proven problem, and proven to be Toyota's responsibility, I don't see that our goverment could force anything. Our government asked Toyota to with hold the products from the market and as I see it Toyota "voluntarily" agreed.

    It is/was not, clearly not, Toyota's responsibility to be certain floor mats were being properly installed or used. They suppy floor mats with the holes for the retraining hooks and the hooks. We all should know that if the optional factory floor mats are shipped with the vehicle they are installed during dealer prep.

    Insofar as I am concerned no one can say, definitively, that the sticking accelerator pedal is the primary causative factor in these run-a-way vehicle incidents. It just doesn't pass the "smell" test.

    No trying to side with Toyota, just applying logic.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    "...it does present a balanced.."

    No.

    Until the firmware source code is revealed (FAT CHANCE..!!) and analyzed by someone of appropriate knowledge there can be no balanced and knowledgeable independent explanation.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,930
    the Government can do what ever the 'H E double hockey sticks' it wants to.
    Until recently, Toyota was not a competitor of ' Government Motors', the #1 vehicle sales corporation in the USA.
    I also see it as putting the wrong floor mat or 1 floor mat on top of another not to be an acceptable reason to have a vehicle to be unsafe to operate.
    Are correcting those 2 issues the final solution? TBD.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,463
    >This is where toyota slapped the LAT down for fabricatin gfacts and misrepresenting...

    Must not have slapped them down very hard. Yup. toyota sure shut up the TIMES.

    http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-toyota-pedal30-2010jan30,0,4401302.story?t- rack=rss

    Doubt cast on Toyota's decision to blame sudden acceleration on gas pedal defect

    Federal vehicle safety records reviewed by The Times also cast doubt on Toyota's claims that sticky gas pedals were a significant factor in the growing reports of runaway vehicles. Of more than 2,000 motorist complaints of sudden acceleration in Toyota and Lexus vehicles over the last decade, just 5% blamed a sticking gas pedal, the analysis found.

    What's more, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has conducted eight investigations into sudden-acceleration problems in Toyota vehicles over the last seven years, none of which identified a sticking pedal as a potential cause.

    "The way the sudden-acceleration problems are occurring in reported incidents doesn't comport with how this sticky pedal is described," said Sean Kane, president of Safety Research & Strategies, a Rehoboth, Mass., auto safety consulting firm. "We know this recall is a red herring."

    Sudden-acceleration events in Toyota and Lexus vehicles have been blamed for at least 19 fatalities and 815 vehicle crashes since 1999.

    Toyota last fall blamed the episodes on floor mats that entrapped the gas pedals, leading to a massive recall. Then last week Toyota said sticking gas pedals were also causing sudden acceleration by not springing back into idle position, triggering another recall.

    On Tuesday, the automaker stopped sales and production of eight models until it could remedy the problem.

    Independent auto safety experts have been skeptical of Toyota's explanations, saying floor mats and sticky gas pedals can't fully explain the large number of complaints that have been mounting for the last decade, covering some of the most popular models in the company's lineup, including the Camry.

    That argument was given more weight Friday when the manufacturer of the suspect pedals insisted its products had been unfairly blamed.

    CTS Corp. of Elkhart, Ind., said in a statement that it had "deep concern that there is widespread confusion and incorrect information" about its products linked to the sudden-acceleration issue.

    "The problem of sudden unintended acceleration has been reported to have existed in some Lexus vehicles and Toyota vehicles going back to 1999, when CTS did not even make this product for any customer," the company said.

    Toyota began using CTS-made pedals in the 2005 model year.

    On Jan. 21, Toyota told federal regulators that CTS pedals were susceptible to moisture and could stick, forcing the recall of 2.3 million cars and trucks. CTS acknowledged that a tiny number of pedals had a rare condition that could cause a slow return to idle position, but it denied that this condition could cause unintended acceleration and said that it knew of no accidents or injuries caused by the issue.

    Toyota spokesman Brian Lyons said the company had no comment on CTS' statement.

    Another Toyota spokesman, Mike Michels, said in an e-mail that the company had identified the pedal problem as "abnormal friction in the pedal pivot mechanism" and that the automaker hoped to announce a remedy soon.

    Toyota has honored CTS three times since 2005 for the quality and efficiency of its work, citing the fact that the supplier "exceeded quality expectations" and achieved "100 percent on-time delivery and for shipping accelerator pedal modules with zero defects."

    The automaker also uses pedals supplied by Denso Corp., a Japanese company with North American headquarters in suburban Detroit, but has said those do not appear to be defective.

    However, the Times review of federal safety records shows several instances of complaints of stuck pedals on vehicles built in Japan, which Toyota has said are not subject to the recall. For example, one complaint, filed two years ago, told of a 2007 Japanese-built Camry in Maryland with a pedal that "stuck to the floor."

    A wide group of national automotive experts say there is strong evidence that a hidden electronic problem must account for at least some, if not most, of the Toyota sudden-acceleration events.

    The 19 sudden-acceleration deaths involving Toyota vehicles are more than those that have occurred in vehicles from all other automakers combined, according to figures provided to The Times by NHTSA.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    Yes, in the end our goverment can do whatever the fghj it wishes to, GW proved that in spades. But in this case Toyota was asked, not "told".
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,930
    the way I have read it, it was 'told' not 'asked'.
    what have you read that leads you that conclusion?
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,614
    "Toyota Motor Corp. received clearance from federal regulators on a fix for the company's sticky gas pedals, three people briefed on the matter said on Saturday.

    A Department of Transportation official confirmed that the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration did not object to Toyota's repair plans. Technically NHTSA's approval is not required, but Toyota would be reluctant to proceed if the government raised objections."

    Feds approve Toyota gas pedal remedy (MSNBC)

    Toyota Gas Pedal Fix Clears Regulators (Wall St. Journal version)

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    For those that still want to convince themself that Toyota took aggressive action for the sake of the consumer...Turns out, the decision to stop producing these vehicles wasn't made by Toyota alone. The Detroit News reports that Toyota is required by law to stop selling the vehicles since there is no fix available yet.

    Nevertheless, Toyota spokesman Mike Michels is reported saying that the company's decision to stop selling the recalled vehicles was voluntary, but that they also had a legal requirement to do so.

    Toyota was legally required to stop selling recalled models

    image image image

    How do you voluntary do something that you're obligated to do?
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,091
    Until the firmware source code is revealed (FAT CHANCE..!!)and analyzed by someone of appropriate knowledge there can be no balanced and knowledgeable independent explanation.

    Toyota also closely guards the Event Data Recorder information. So no outside entity can determine what happened before an accident. There is still the Smoking Gun delivered to the dealer with WOT. And the driver says the pedal WAS NOT DEPRESSED with the car at full throttle. That does not sound like a pedal problem. Something beyond the throttle pedal was keeping the car at WOT.

    Why doesn't the NHTSA force Toyota to reveal the firmware for outside review? Why do they allow them to hide the information in the EDR? The 2008 Avalon that ended upside down in a pond killing 4 people was NOT floor mat related. Was it a sticking pedal? Where is the EDR data from that December 26th tragedy? 2100 accidents attributed to SUA is significant.

    The LA Times was not intimidated by the Toyota response last year.

    http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fg-japan-toyota29-2010jan29,0,3951770.story

    The reverberations continued Friday as Toyota announced that a European recall could include up to 1.8 million cars, pushing the global total to 9 million, or nearly as many vehicles as were sold in the U.S. last year.

    http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-toyota30-2010jan30,0,5882035.story
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