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Toyota Halts Sales of Popular Models - Accelerator Stuck Problem Recall

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  • The NHTSA website lists 12 incidents for '07 Highlanders. About half appear to be due to floor mats. The others are inconclusive.
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    Audi never did have all the UA incidents/complaints when they were the "poster child." Refer to article below. Take notice of last paragraph. This article seemed to say Audi was in the hot seat that time because owners organized and were very proactive.

    My son and his wife just got Audi SUV AQ7. They love it. Performs well towing their boat. I have not sat in it yet, but will soon. Guess I'll find out then. I do know my husband had gotten the top model Audi in the 1980's and we had lots of electrical problems. Real lemon then. Everyone else was complainign too.

    "Short People Can’t Drive Audis
    In the 1980s, Audi became the poster child for Sudden Unintended Acceleration. And in many ways, this vehicle’s SUA problem became the model of how these problems would be investigated by NHTSA, defended by the industry and used as the sine qua non of SUA myth-busting.

    More than 1,000 consumers alleged that their Audi 5000 vehicles had accelerated without driver input; 175 had been injured, and four died in SUA crashes. The company denied that there was anything wrong with the vehicle and blamed the problem on shorter than average drivers who did not have much experience driving an Audi. These small, confused drivers had mistakenly depressed the gas pedal when they meant to step on the brake, Audi said. The response was a public relations and marketing nightmare. Audi sales plunged, and the complaints continued.

    The Audi 5000 was the subject of an infamous 60 Minutes story, in which the news program attempted to simulate SUA. The broadcast drove Audi sales down further, and the network was heavily criticized for its one-sided story. As the history is often recounted today, NHTSA vindicated Audi and CBS never apologized for maligning the automaker.

    However, between 1982 and 1987, Audi launched five recalls to address the problem. The first three attempted to fix what Audi had characterized as the driver-error problem by tweaking the pedal positions. The fifth and final recall for 250,000 1978 to 1987 vehicles added a brake-shift interlock – which requires drivers to depress the brake pedal before shifting out of the Park position.

    The fourth recall was probably the most telling about the Audi 5000’s SUA problem. In 1987, Audi recalled 81,000 Audi 5000s from the 1986 and 1987 model years, for worn idle stabilizer units. As Audi explained to its customers: “The idle stabilizer has the purpose of maintaining uniform engine idle speed by regulating air flow under different operating conditions, such as variations in engine temperature, and on/off cycling of the air conditioner or power assist pump. Excessive idle stabilizer wear causes engine idle fluctuations which increase with the usage of the car. If a worn unit is not replaced in a timely fashion, the engine idle could ultimately see-saw so severely that it may surprise a driver who is not acquainted with the vehicle’s condition and fails to apply the brake. Under these circumstances, there is a risk of a collision in a confined space with the possibility of injury.” (In others words, dear driver, it’s still your fault.)

    Audi received much of the attention, due in part to victims, who organized and advocated very effectively for themselves. NHTSA also received a significant number of complaints in the 1980s alleging SUA in Nissan 280/300ZX and Maxima, Acura Legend, Honda Accord, and various Ford, GM and Mercedes models. NHTSA opened a number of defect investigations into SUA, and closed many of them without finding a defect trend."
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,972
    i have one of those neighbors that is always CR this and CR that.
    he probably wouldn't wipe his b*tt if the paper is not recommended by CR.
    not sure why he never bought a Toyota, though.
    i'm not anti CR, just not 'pro'. some people have no middle ground.
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    My neighbor had a Lexus 350S and her vehicle is under the recall for floor mats. She also checked her auto closely and saw foor mats just not an issue. She feels. She said her mats never move because of rubber backing. And she tried pushing pedal down and back up. No issue at all. She can't figure out why there is a recall on floor mats??

    My RAV4 is fine with carpet mat plus all weather mat. Neither moves and is quite distant(4-5") from pedal. Carpet mat is attached to floor pegs. All weather is on top - because of rubber little pegs underneath it stays put where it is laid. That was first thing I checked if two would be ok. And was long before this all occurred.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,972
    brake-shift interlock. Every vehicle has those for probably the last 20 years.
    my 1991 mustang has it. despite that, all these Toyota UA episodes. :confuse:
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    Yes, complaints have continued. When you look back over the time line early on when these SUA/UA incidents occurred seemed like they could be taken care of/adressed easier. Have a feeling was more because autos were more mechanical.

    Appears our computerized autos now create huge obstacles in finding the SUA/UA real cause. Poor service techs get baffled all the time, and find it easy to just replace something than find. Factor of time to find must be considered. .

    Smile - what are we going to do when our car drives us around?? Research is underway now. Stanford is doing reseach for automatic steering. It's coming.
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    get your facts straight, its not owned by Renualt it has a equity alliance with Nissan which isn't even at 50% so it can't own the company; Renualt has a 44% equity stake in Nissan while Nissan only has a 15% equity stake! sounds like a better deal for Nissan then it does Renualt considering Nissan only sells maybe a million more cars a year then Renualt does!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault#The_Renault_Nissan_Alliance_.281999.E2.80.9- 3_.29
  • PMOPMO Posts: 278
    You know this pedal was engineered by two engineers from Indiana? This problem should be addressed by them to counter their design,if it is or is not flawed.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,972
    edited March 2010
    sharon,
    there are no standards for how automotive software operates.
    there are external rules; OBD II for emissions, etc...
    each manufacturer has their own idea of how it 'should' work and how much effort they want to invest in it.
    sometimes i think i am getting too old to keep my mustang, but I think you just gave me justification in the Smile part of your post. :)
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,972
    my understanding is Toyota provided the design and specifications.
  • nimiminimimi Posts: 249
    This is exactly the procedure to NOT follow when using mats of any kind. ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS remove whatever mats you are using and replace them and anchor them to the hooks. Piling mat upon mat upon mat is only asking for trouble. How much difficulty is there to remove the carpeted mats and replace them with the all weather and anchor them in the hooks?
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,972
    stacking mats is a problem only in a Lex/Toy.
    provide another example, if you can.
    as a counterpoint, you can put a soda can under the throttle pedal any of my vehicles and it will not trap it into a full throttle position.
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    Actually the runaway Prius incident still stands as CHP and news reported. Sikes alleged dicey background may not be/have any connecting links to the known facts of the case. Won't be overlooked. CHP had turned car over to both these agencies, and CHP doesn't do the indepth investigation, especially on this vehicle. Sikes never had control over/access to auto once incident occurred. Was impounded at CHP. NHTSA and Toyota are investigating. Representative Issa who is on congressional committee that is investigating Toyota lives down there and is witnessing as well. Decisions will be made. Hopefully results will become public knowledge and a fair decision made based upon only the facts of the incident.

    As for the purported picture of Sikes race car. That was just a joke.

    Here is article to catchyou up. Most of the bloggers here had not seen all the reports/interviews CHP/Sikes.One of our bloggers here lives down there and helped us understand the road terrain. Had another news report from down south that said same - just couldn't find
    http://www.wsbtv.com/news/22826761/detail.html

    The following one is from Fox News. This one seems to just be addressing Sikes alleged questionable background, not any of the facts of the incident.
    http://www.fox40.com/news/headlines/ktxl-news-jamessikesinvestigated0311,0,46776- 51.story

    Glad to see you practicing. Me too!!!
  • PMOPMO Posts: 278
    Thank you for your reply,I retired 17 years now GM 32 and RCN before that. I worked at Manheim after i retired and the used crap dealers would push through told me how not to trust in used. This is like marriage too if it works for you good but my first one lasted shy of 10 years .This one 35 so who knows? The crap dealers pull reflects on the company that owns that brand. This is at the auction then figure the rentals that have been returned and pushed into dealers that will buy your trade for auction price or less.
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    My 2006 RAV4 special pedal area is raised - aprox1 1/2- 2" above base of floor. I did take a can of soda out - to bottom of pedal with can sitting on floor is appox 3/4 of the can. Can sitting in the pedal area - pedal in normal position is at approx slightly less than 1/2 of soda can.

    Your cars pedals do sit higher. Interesting. What autos/models do you have?
  • beachfish2beachfish2 Posts: 177
    "Actually the runaway Prius incident still stands as CHP and news reported."

    I have a bridge for sale in Brooklyn if you are interested in buying something else.

    John
  • PMOPMO Posts: 278
    CR dropped Toyota like hot iron when it started to fail?I thought correct me if I am wrong but prior to that no car on this planet could touch it .Then you are correct CR would like to get as far away from all of this because their crash test dummies could not push the pedal or simulate what has happened. Then until a dummy is smart enough to predict what company is the best it is about time we all stopped bashing Toyota as a GM pro or pro GM I think this is sad until the answer is in the NHTSA says all Toyota's on it's site for recall are unsafe until it has been in for recall.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,972
    my name is on 5 fords.
    09 escape, 07 fusion, 04 escape, 02 explorer, 91 mustang.
    i think the the mats/pedal issue is separate from UA situation.
    the former reflects an obvious design flaw with the Lex/Toy Camry based vehicles.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,548
    >Back in the sixties when I was a tech in an electric motors lab,

    Since 1960 fifty years have passed. Things have changed. Nader was at CR for a time to vent his hatred of GM and others through their pages.
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    I loved my old mustang convertible I had when I graduated from college. Many special good memories.

    So you enjoyed my last comment. That is scarey! Think you may need to keep your Mustang. Forget - you are too old.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,176
    reliability and problems with their pick-up trucks and SUVs, namely the Armada and Titan!

    The only PU built cheaper and junkier than the Toyota Tundra is the Nissan Titan. Plastic mounts for radiator. The list is endless of why the Titan is a nightmare for Nissan. Same goes for the Tundra. They should have both stuck with building just cars and CUVs.
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    its sad because it's Nissan's pick-ups and SUVs that is keeping its overall reliability as a brand down lower then the other Japanese and Korean automakers! their Quest minivan was hell and they finally got rid of it; they are either going to have to get rid of all their pick-up and SUVs, which I'm sure they won't OR scrap the Titan, Armada, Pathfinder, and Xterra and completely redesign them from the ground up!

    I have a 10 Max SV and its a great car! their sedans, crossovers, and sport coupes are absolutely wonderful and a good majority have really good reliability! its just those darn pick-ups and SUVs!
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    I am a real safety nut. Mats are fine. Rubber mat is attached even though its on top & it doesn't move - period..Those rubber pegs on bottom sure help. After the mention of mats problems and never stacking. Once again did my own thorough investigation for my particular model vehicle. Some models may not be able to handle - mine actually can easily with 4-5 inch clearance from pedal. And this means they sit that far away from pedal, not the underneath measurement - from mat to pedal clearance . All weather actually sits in back the edge of carpet mat if this helps any. If they sat right underneath pedal - carpet mat would have been gone.

    I had also blogged here how I had gone out to try to get pedal to stick on my mats. 2006 configuration - chance was 0. Unless you bunched up mat. Just not possible. .

    Many thanks for your concern for me. Nice to see a good safety person on board!
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,972
    my dilemma is i have two kids, which one gets it?
    Toyota does not have anything comparable, but if they did, both my kids would say to each other, 'you can have it'.
    Toyota made the decision to be inoffensive to everybody, but the issues they are having due to maximizing profits, have undermined the high quality plus inoffensive corporate philosophy they built their success on.
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    Toyota has total control over the final design. Pedals are fine and actually is good sturdy pedal. There were several videos out there providing demonstration taking it apart.etc. Pedal could actually be put in freezing water, baked for 20 munutes with no effect , operated perfectly. Go to You Tube.

    Since complaints were only 5-10 felt CTS just was the easy target. Pedal doesn't/didn't cause any of the SUA/UA. events. If my model were being recalled, think I would have just ordered the new designed pedal myself, and let Toyota install that pedal at no charge to me. Just what I personally would do.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,343
    I have and it would be reason enough not to buy one and it probably was reason enough for many others not to buy one.

    We'll, some people obviously drove them and decided it was not a bad design, and bought them. If you buy something, don't complain about its design!!!! You know the design before you buy it!!!
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,972
    that applies to 1995 NEON's too, right? LOL
    you are digging yourself a hole.
    not trying to shovel dirt on top of you while you are still breathing. ;)
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    Just relaying the legal facts of where the case stands. As of today - still a runaway Prius - SUA/UA incident. Provided two of latest newspaper reports - one Fox News and one UP News. No other changes made since intial reports news/CHP. CHP, NHTSA and Toyota all know of Sikes alleged dicey past. Investigation is ongoing. Guess we all just wait now for results.

    No thanks to a bridge in Brooklyn - Smile - I prefer the Golden Gate Bridge!! Do you live in Brooklyn???
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    edited March 2010
    I personally have never had a Chrysler or Dodge product but one of my Aunts had a 1998 Neon and she said it was the worst car she ever had in her life; it was constantly falling apart and broke down and needed repairs every couple of months! she now lives and swears by Subaru but I remember many of time having to go and pick her up from the dealer, since she only lives 20 minutes from me, and take her home because she had no alternative! she's been in two Subaru's since that Dodge and swears by them! they must be good since I've never had to help pick her up from a Subaru dealer in the last 10 years! ;)
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,343
    edited March 2010
    Yes, but Chrysler lied about the Neon in their marketing campaign, and tricked me into believing those lies:

    1) they claimed they had a new Headquarters for the company and were the "NEW" Chrysler and the "NEW" Dodge now (back in 1994).
    2) they claimed they were not the Chrysler/Dodge of old (the incompetent unreliable crap car builder of yesteryear (I suppose this meant the 80's and early 90's).
    3) It was an all "new" design, with all "new" engineering.
    4) The only thing old was the 3 speed auto from the early 70's, I wanted the 5-speed, my father (who contributed some mula) demanded I get the auto (he felt auto would be safer for a teenager I guess).
    5) even though everything was from the "new" Dodge, it was the same old Chrysler crap.
    6) They said they were not the Chrysler that went bankrupt and needed a gov't bailout, they said they were better (deja vu, sound familiar today? ;) )

    #6 sounds awfully familiar to what I hear today about GM and Chrysler.
    It's the boy who cried wolf!

    I was unaware the design and engineering of the vehicle was so that the car would basically self destruct after it was 3 years old or had 36,000 miles. I didn't see "planned obsolecense" in the design; to my defense in choosing it. Also, I was a teenager who didn't realize how important reliability was in choosing an automobile.
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