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Toyota Halts Sales of Popular Models - Accelerator Stuck Problem Recall

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Comments

  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    Must be these models ith the problems, because sure is not a problem in my RAV4.

    So how do you like your Explorer?? I had two before the RAV4. Mine were both very reliable and kept each until 100,000 miles. When my husband was alive we needed to tow our boat. My husband died, boat too big for me alone, so next auto went for gas mileage and cargo room large enough for two large dog kennels.
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    Sounds like your kids already like what you have. I assume you are talking about giving your Mustang to one of them, or replacing with a new car. I am sorry - I didn't quite understand. Good luck - if they are close in age, you do have big dilemma.
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    No, was just a slight problem found with those minimal complaints lodged only. Note - arrangements for design change had been in works for quite awhile though. CTS had it posted on their website immediately. Then was pulled down over next 1-2 days and replaced with less detrimental claims towards Toyota. Not for sure where this directive order came from - CTS, Toyota, or attorney??

    This shim fix appeared to be a very cheap approach - seemed more for reassuring public. NHTSA let it go through
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,969
    edited March 2010
    I was a teenager who didn't realize how important reliability was in choosing an automobile.

    That explains it. I bought my son a new Toyota PU truck in 1995. He managed to destroy the engine at 60k and again at 107K miles. Clutch at 11k miles not covered by the thieves at Toyota. You destroyed a Neon, my son destroyed a Toyota. Kids are a pain in the Behind. He put the miles on delivering Pizzas and trips to the Sierras snowboarding.

    I won't bore you with the problems my 1964 Toyota Land Cruiser had.

    PS
    The Toyota was a holdover from 1994 and I got it for $9k. Still over priced.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,327
    edited March 2010
    The Toyota was a holdover from 1994 and I got it for $9k. Still over priced.

    I bet you or your son got a fair value at trade-in time!!! I got peanuts for the Neon when it was time to get a new vehicle, which was WAY BEFORE 107K miles.

    I could of bought a Rolls Royce cheaper than keeping a Neon that long.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,327
    You destroyed a Neon,

    No, the Chrysler engineers, builders, and designers destroyed the Neon by having it's self-destruct sequence pre-planned for the day after year 3 or the mile after 36,000. In that regard, the engineering was excellent because I remember needing a new Air conditioner literally the day after I hit 36 months.

    I took great care of my first car. I kept it constantly clean, and got oil changes every 3,000 miles. In contrast my friend raped his Toyota Corolla ( I mean GEO Prism) all over town for 100,000 miles and it never cost him a dime in unscheduled repairs.
  • mnfmnf Posts: 404
    SIKES or YIKES interesting artical out from AP

    http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20100313/US.Runaway.Prius/

    "Every time the technician placed the gas pedal to the floor and the brake pedal to the floor the engine shut off and the car immediately started to slow down," the memo said.

    The brakes on the Prius also did not show wear consistent with having been applied at full force at high speeds for a long period, the Wall Street Journal reported Saturday, citing three people familiar with the probe, whom it did not name. The newspaper said the brakes may have been applied intermittently.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,163
    >but Chrysler lied about the Neon in their marketing campaign, and tricked me into believing those lies:

    ROFLMAO
  • roho1roho1 Posts: 317
    Sharon I'm shocked. You of all people here who knows as much as anyone about the issues. Why would you need 2 mats? Are trying to save the carpeted mat for trade in value or what? Why not just take it out? Is the all weather mat held in place by the hooks or are you relying on friction to hold it in place?
    You said ..." Unless you bunched up mat. Just not possible".... Why take the chance?
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,163
    >"Every time the technician placed the gas pedal to the floor and the brake pedal to the floor the engine shut off and the car immediately started to slow down,"

    Toyota's expert keeps saying over and over that this can't happen because there's a brake override. Duh. That's the point. Your computer system goes haywire and the brake override, which works through the computer, doesn't work!!!

    Of course, it's not happening each time the car is driven.

    The article points out further damning incidents, one on a Lexus with the floor mats "repaired."

    Toyota is working hard to keep the name "Lexus" out of the news as much as possible.

    >And in Fort Wayne, Indiana, the driver of a 2007 Lexus said it careened through a parking lot and crashed into a light pole Thursday after its accelerator suddenly dropped to the floor. That car was the subject of a floor mat recall. Driver Myrna Cook of Paulding, Ohio, said it had been repaired.

    >NHTSA is sending experts to a New York City suburb where the driver of a 2005 Prius said she crashed into a stone wall Monday after the car accelerated on its own.
  • roho1roho1 Posts: 317
    interesting, looking more and more like a balloon boy event.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,969
    edited March 2010
    The evidence should have been in the EDR (black box). What info did it contain? I posted what is kept in there from the EDR in my Sequoia. It should show if he hit the gas peddle then the brake. C'mon folks are you drinking the Toyota Koolaid. Of course it works after the fact. That is always the case. Reset the computers and all is well with no trace of a problem. The EDR should convict or absolve Sikes. Of course it could convict Toyota as well. Give us the EDR data in the raw form.

    image

    image

    If I have an incident and live through it, I will get a court order to read the data in my EDR before I allow a Toyota tech to lay a finger on my vehicle. I figured the test would be another big joke.
  • newdavidqnewdavidq Posts: 146
    Please clarify;

    As I understand it, the EDR only records data if a crash or near crash event occurs. Since the Sikes trip appears to have been an above the speed limit cruise down the freeway with not so much as a skid, panic stop or scratch to the vehicle, would the EDR have been activated?

    I believe that since the EDR only records and stores for a short time before and after an "event" what could it tell us about the many minutes long Sikes journey?

    Regards, DQ
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,969
    edited March 2010
    Supposedly there is a second EDR when you have VSC as the Prius does. It should store data any time that system is activated. If the information in my Sequoia manual is correct, it looks to me like it should give data for any kind of abnormal Driving condition. For Toyota to come out of this clean they will have to prove how Sikes pulled off this scam. If their techs are not smart enough to do that, I don't see where they have a case. We know that shutting the car off resets a lot of things. Most people that have experienced UA, claim after they restart the vehicle it is fine. If the brakes were smoking there would have to be glazing of the rotors.

    I was just reading further reports. Are there people actually that much in love with Toyota they would threaten someone's life over this incident? Or is that a separate division of Exponent?

    By ELLIOT SPAGAT and KEN THOMAS, AP
    2 hours ago


    The report says that, according to Toyota's "residential Hybrid expert," the Prius is designed to shut down if the brakes are applied while the gas pedal is pressed to the floor. If it doesn't, the engine would "completely seize."

    The memo continued that in this case "it does not appear to be feasibly possible, both electronically and mechanically that his gas pedal was stuck to the floor and he was slamming on the brake at the same time."

    The findings raise questions about "the credibility of Mr. Sikes' reporting of events," said Kurt Bardella, a spokesman for California Rep. Darrell Issa, the top Republican on the committee, which is looking into the incident.

    Sikes could not be reached to comment. However, his wife, Patty Sikes, said he stands by his story.

    "Everyone can just leave us alone," she said. "Jim didn't get hurt. There's no intent at all to sue Toyota. If any good can come out of this, maybe they can find out what happened so other people don't get killed."

    Mrs. Sikes said the couple's lives have been turned upside down since Monday and they are getting death threats.

    The brakes on the Prius also did not show wear consistent with having been applied at full force at high speeds for a long period, the Wall Street Journal reported Saturday, citing three people familiar with the probe, whom it did not name. The newspaper said the brakes may have been applied intermittently.

    Toyota Corp. spokesman Mike Michels declined to confirm the Journal's report. He said the investigation was continuing and the company planned to release technical findings soon.

    Michels said the hybrid braking system in the Prius would make the engine lose power if the brakes and accelerator were pressed at the same time.

    The memo did say that investigators found the front brake pads were spent.

    "Visually checking the brake pads and rotor it was clearly visible that there was nothing left," it said.

    The rear brake pads had 1/2 mm left, or 3 1/2 mm less than new pads, the memo said.

    Jill Zuckman, spokeswoman for the U.S. Transportation Department that oversees the highway safety agency, said investigators "are still reviewing data and have not reached any conclusions."


    Since when did the Wall Street Journal merge with the National Enquirer? Are they losing readers and need to spice up the news a bit?

    PS
    Remember Issa was taking the side of Toyota in the hearings. He is trying to keep NUMMI open and figures he can do more by taking their side in this mess.
  • newdavidqnewdavidq Posts: 146
    It would seem that if the system resets itself if the vehicle is turned off, it would be useless as generally after an event, the vehicle would be turned off.

    It appears that the more we learn about this, the more elusive the truth becomes.

    Now, I'm even beginning to feel a twinge of sympathy for the Sikes family, but only a twinge.

    What is most troubling is the visceral condemnation of Toyota by many, a company which has a pretty good record in the US over many years. And yet these same people instantly accept a story from someone like Sikes.

    Regards, DQ
  • PMOPMO Posts: 278
    Yes I did take in the video and it left everything hanging as to how it could fail. I would like to see a 5 sample repeatability study done with the Engineers responsible ,present .With the data from this sample size it could validate the true findings. The fact the two who designed this pedal and Toyota bought into it says it is good .(the Failure is some where if not this pedal. Compound parts are subject to fail if the plastic or compounds are not injected at the correct temp and mixture.The failure is subject to Manufacturing .) This is another subject the USA is failing in (Manufacturing)
  • PMOPMO Posts: 278
    My guess as a teen you acted like one too and the car did everything you asked of it. until the crap was beat out of it and you wanted another ? Then dear old dad says NO. I just bet you lit a fire under that pile of crap every time you drove it, the car did not fail it was the teen test it could not pass. ? The teen test is the best test because after the car is done if it passes it becomes a winner. Toyota's were great testers most teens could pick one up a dime a dozen used with 100,000 miles ,This was the car. This mind set carried over to now because GM Ford and Chrysler were never a Teen car.
  • gizzer777gizzer777 Posts: 335
    edited March 2010
    Sounds like an EDR needs to store about 50x-100x as much data as is currently planned for! There are just so many variables that need do be accounted for!! (Not including those we can think of (The list will also have to include all those P codes (from sensor positions PRIOR AND AFTER....THE INCIDENT .

    Now for the real challenge(OBDII).....what about the "P" codes that may have been stored and probably are dependent upon each other (and it goes on and on and on!....Then we get down to the variables :sick: !!! THOSE NASTY OLE "HUMAN STORED ERRORS!!!" :sick:

    Actually this gets me to the real reason for this long post! I really like the VSC and Trac Control that some of our vehicles. IF YOU HAVE IT, CONSIDER YOURSELVES LUCKY!!!!! Those 2 systems alone have saved my butt more than a few times
  • mickeyrommickeyrom Posts: 936
    All the teens I knew in my time drove Fords,Chevys,Pontiacs,Nashes,Mercs,Hudsons,Studebakers,......you get my point.Teens often drive American brands even today,although I'm not sure what that has to do with the Prius issue.I bet no teen would drive a Prius.
  • roho1roho1 Posts: 317
    Supposedly there is a second EDR when you have VSC as the Prius does. It should store data any time that system is activated.

    The video of the Colorado Pruis crash shows that there is a separate computer unit for the airbags. This only records the instant when the airbags are deployed. It would tell when the airbag was deployed and other info like if the brake was engaged. In this case no airbag deployed.
  • PMOPMO Posts: 278
    The Teen test works,dad gets smarter and the kids find their wheels , It would be nice to know what he drives to day? I have 6 kids over 40 the choices are from top down Chev Chev Chev Chrysler Pontiac Saturn and dad Buick Enclave.
  • PMOPMO Posts: 278
    Are you kidding Toyota just sent the Canadian Government a reader for the Black box that is experimental (never been used,has no manual,will take time to understand the data.) so what are you finding that can read a black box on Toyota?
  • PMOPMO Posts: 278
    No the Engineers put their design to Toyota for approval it is then up to Toyota to find a builder and The spec.are reached when composit and Die is cut (injection or press dies)
  • PMOPMO Posts: 278
    Corvair was his hate not GM unsafe at any speed was the Quote!
  • PMOPMO Posts: 278
    edited March 2010
    Not to correct you but it was the Teen test of any car. The question I put to you is what are your friends driving today. Not that your friends are Smarter than the average teen by driving American built because depending how old you are the others were not here back then.In my case I drove and owned a Oldsmobile Super 88 at 18. This would make your point mute.(you think) so if you would please put it in context. Prius is still out investigating a ghost, The guy that had the problem,will soon be pregnant with horns and own some island in Europe (who cares?).
  • PMOPMO Posts: 278
    You ever compair the Geo Prism in CR and find how much crappier the Prism was to Toyota Corolla? whats with that? GM was the problem CR refused to Give GM anything good all around because it would not advertise with them. This ment give us millions to advertise we will give you good ratings? Look how Toyota caught them OUCH.
  • djohnson1djohnson1 Posts: 44
    Mickeyrom, thanks for the info. I thought I read that the CHP told the guy in the Prius to put his parking brake on. Since it only activates the rear wheels, I wonder why Toyo would recommend against that. I guess if it goes in neutral, you're in good shape after that anyway, since there is an rpm limiter that will prevent over-revving the motor.
  • xluxlu Posts: 457
    edited March 2010
    Any intermittent software or electronics problem is hard to duplicate. Let's say the chance of this happening is one out of 10,000. That does not mean if you test one product for 10,000 times, you will get one failure. It's random. You probably need to test it 1 million times before drawing an conclusion.

    This is the game Toyota is playing. Since the odd to duplicate the problem is vastly smaller than not, they just deny any problem with software or electronics and let us to prove them wrong which is very very difficult.

    There have been 3 recent incidents involves Toyota this week. One in San Diego, one in New York and one in San Clemente.

    In the San Diego incidents, Toyota first released the financial trouble of the driver; then its executive made the comment that he's "mystified" by the incident because the Prius supposes to have the brake override system. Now today Toyota casted doubt on the incident further by saying they could not duplicated problem after 2 hours of test drive.

    The driver did not intend to sue Toyota, what would be his motive to fake it? Toyota executive's comment showed incredible ignorance or denial. Of course when everything is working fine, there would be no such incident. The brake override system SUPPOSES to work and it did not, this means there's a problem! CHP testified that he saw the brake lights on and smelled the burning brake. So aside from if the accelerator has problem or not, if the driver was faking the incident or not, the brake override did not work! A 2 hour test drive can not duplicate an intermittent problem which only happens once in several years.

    There are also many posts accusing the drivers not put the car in neutral or to turn off the car. Again, when the car is malfunction, it would not let the driver to do so. I suspect these arguments are also originated from Toyota PR personnels.

    Now the New York and San Clemente incidents. We did not hear any attacks from Toyota to the drivers because both drivers were injured. No one would risk their life to fake such incidents for financial gains because they may not survive.

    The San Clemente case clearly indicated the car was to blame. The car made a 90 degree turn into a parking lot behind Ralphs then accelerated in high rate and struck the parked truck without leaving any brake marks on the ground. The fact that the care successfully made the slow and sharp 90 degree turn into the parking lot proves the driver was alert and not under any influence. Then there's no reason for him to fly on without braking. This means that both the car's accelerator and brake failed.

    Toyota calculated the risk; they thought that it's virtually impossible for us to positively prove the cause of the accident so they just flat out deny everything on electronics. The so called mechanical fixes were just the cheapest way to get away.

    Testing a few cars for a few hours like Toyota and Exponent is doing now does not prove there's no problem of their cars! The black box would; that's why Toyota is guarding the black box data with their life. I also suspect that they designed the black box to record and retain as little data as possible so a 2 hour drive after the accident would push all the error data out of the memory thus erased all troubled history.

    Toyota is not dummy; they treat us like dummies; and many of us are dummies to believe in they lies.
  • djohnson1djohnson1 Posts: 44
    Sharon, thanks for all your info and great posts!
    My hope is Sikes is legit and they figure out what happened. My fear is that with all the complicated electronics interactions they never will. It still doesn't smell right to me that he calls on his cell phone and has this conversation, just like the CHP officer who had the unfortunate accident with his family in CA. Seems a little too convenient, yet it's not fair to condemn him without hard evidence.
    And congrulations on your son's achievements. All us parents are thrilled when our kids get out into the world and make a success of themselves!
    Dennis
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