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Acura RL

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  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,530
    robertsmx

    From Sep 01, 2004:
     
    “Overall gearing is impacted by overall axle ratio. Like S2000, Honda is using a primary (4.600:1) and a secondary (1.238) gear reduction, giving it an (overall) axle ratio of 5.695.”

    I finally had a few minutes to look up some sources.

    What I see from Road and Track, an ’04 TL brochure and the ’05 TL release is that the ’03 TL-S and ’04 / ’05 TL gearing (trans. and final) is identical.

    The RL trans. gearing is similar, but not identical – except for 5th = 0.48 in all cases.

    I do not see a ‘secondary gear’ ratio listed in the TL information I have – or can find on the ‘Net. Does it have one?

    And the final drive of the TL is listed as 4.428 – where the RL is listed as 4.6.

    If the secondary gear ratio is the same numerical ratio in the RL as in the TL, the difference in rpm at 60 would be less than 80 rpm (approx. 1750 for the TL and 1829 for the RL = approx. 4.5%). And this relatively low cruising engine speed would give some credence to the Highway MPG quoted. If the TL has no secondary gear reduction, the rpm at 60 would be something like 2265.

    (Assuming comparable overall rolling radius for the 17” tires on all, etc.)

    So – is the RL reduction gear a (significantly) different ratio than the TL?

    If not, I would expect the these numbers to be accurate. . .

    Thanks,
    - Ray
    More interested in cruising range than city MPG . . .
  • As I "recall," the '96 recall stemmed from a class-action suit against American Honda having to do with pollution control equipment. The settlement entitled owners to a free oil change, plus free spark plugs and some other coverage of certain costs up to the 105,000 mile maintenance point. Also, if the "check engine" light becomes illuminated, the dealer is supposed to remedy the situation up to 150,000 miles. I probably don't have all of the details exactly correct, but that is the gist of it. Despite the warranty, that annoying yellow "check engine" light has been persistent on my '96. The dealer keeps replacing the ERG valve, to no avail. They even had the gall to suggest that I put a piece of black plastic tape over the light. I've done the "disconnect the battery trick" to recycle the computer, and that will keep the light off ... for 2 days. So, how does this relate to the 2005 RL topic? I've complained to my dealer that I will be unable to trade or sell my '96, in order to buy an '05, unless they are successful in getting the "check engine" light extinguished (OK...OK, I'm still gonna buy an '05 anyway).
  • jjacurajjacura Posts: 808
    That's it! Anyone who waits 9 years to find the right replacement for his '96 Legend has my interest!
  • >I have an apointment at the dealer on 9/7 as well....both my ABS and TCS lights persist in remaining on. Do you have any idea what causes this condition and is it a complex fix?<

    For what it may be worth, I own a Legend, and it has been plagued by ABS and brake problems. The master cylinder had to be replaced 3 times and the ABS unit once. After some research and a candid talk with the service manager, I learned that at least in the early 90s (and perhaps later?) Acura's brake system had a proclivity for becoming contaminated, often causing failures in that system.

    I was able to get some "Customer Assistance" from Acura on the master cylinder and ABS replacements by working through the service manager who, at my request, contacted the local Acura district rep who authorized the "good will" replacement of the parts at their expense -- labor was on me.

    What helped me immensely in these negotiations were my well documented service records, which reflected ongoing brake problems. The other ace in the hole was learning about all the technical service bulletins (TSBs) on the car from a web site called Alldata dot com. If you go to that website, ignore all banners to pay for entry and also ignore the banner that Acura has them put up trying to get you not to look at the TSBs. With perseverance you will find a page with ALL of the TSBs on the car, with an accompanying list of the related customer complaints associated with the TSB. (At the web site, look for TSBs on top, click that, then on the next screen go to the right side box and look for: "1982-2004 Vehicle Year TSBs and Recalls available in ALLDATA Products"; then select your year, and then your model.) By confronting Acura with your knowledge of a systemic problem, you may enhance your argumentas to why they should fix your out of warranty car.

    As mentioned above, this web site was invaluable to me. It also helped identify an AC problem that went uncorrected for years by the dealer. Once I found that my complaint (AC blows warm air intermittantly) had a TSB and a fix for the problem, I notified the service manager -- who had known nothing about the existence of the TSB or the fix. Again, Acura then paid for the part and I paid for the labor.

    Staying on topic, may I add that I certainly hope that the 2006 RL will leave all the brake system problems behind -- as surely there may be a few new kinks to work out, what with all the 'Flash Gordon' technology bestowed on Acura's latest and greatest technological achievement.
  • The notice merely specified a "sealing bolt," of which I have no idea what it entails.

    I had one problem with the "check engine" light staying on - defective oxygen sensor which was corrected under the extended warranty purchased by the previous owner.

    It is almost a certainty that even if I succumb to buying the '05 RL now, the '96 will remain in my stable for quite some time. It has run almost flawlessly all this time and I doubt that I could find a better replacement car at its projected trade value. With two more drivers being added, I need the extra wheels to prevent being a perpetual "taxi driver."
  • shotgunshotgun Posts: 184
    One of the better early articles on the 05' RL is found in the Canadian Globe&Mail - found at:

    http://www.globemegawheels.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20- 040902/WHACURA02/cars/

    In it, among other things, they claim the following: "...and Canadian models come with bilingual voice-recognition and navigation systems, headlight washers and ventilated seats with both heating and cooling."

    Now much rethoric has revolved around the notion of certain options not being available on the new 05' RL and the aforementioned article somewhat rankles me - not that I have to have or need every conceivable option, but if the Canadians are offered headlight washers and heated and ventilated seats, I should, at a minimum, have access to those options!

    Speaking of options that I would be willing to pay for and which I think should be available on an automobile of this calibre - are the following:

    1. Heated & Cooled, ventilated seats ( I live in the south).

    2. Power adjustable front passenger headrests (essential to be able to adjust while driving).

    3. Intelligent cruise control (Befitting any luxury car worth mentioning nowdays).

    4. 20" wheels (Since they where showcased on the prototype).

    5. Remote starting (Nice on cold, wintery days)

    6. A few "ground effects" add on's.

    What are your thoughts??
  • There is a mention of the 2005 RL in the October edition of Consumer Reports magazine. The cover story is "What's New: 2005 Cars - First look at 29 models."

    In the body of the article, on page 12, "This year, one aim of redesigning many vehicles is to be sportier and more fun to drive than previous versions. The Acura RL, Audi A6, Cadillac STS, Mercedes-Benz SLK350, and Subaru Legacy GT are examples of this trend."

    In the box for the Acura RL:

    "The company line. Acura says the RL, which goes on sale this October, will 'redefine the luxury-performance-sedan category' by featuring a 300-hp V6 engine and a new AWD system that sends all rear torque to the outer wheel when cornering for better handling."

    "CR's take. Based on the excellent Rating of the Acura TL, the RL looks promising. It has many high-tech devices, such as front headlamps that turn to illuminate around corners and a navigation system that integrates real-time traffic reports to help plot the best route."
  • >What are your thoughts?<

    >1. Heated & Cooled, ventilated seats (I live in the south).<

    I live in Southern California, which can get pretty toasty at times. Ventilated seats would be a god-send; I would be really peeved to find that Canadians get them and Americans do not. Hard to think why we wouldn't though. It certainly gets hotter here, south of their border.

    >2. Power adjustable front passenger headrests (essential to be able to adjust while driving).<

    Would be great! I concur wholeheartedly.

    >3. Intelligent cruise control (Befitting any luxury car worth mentioning nowdays).<

    I would like this as well, though I don't like the appearance of the little concentric circles that dot the rear bumpers of the cars that sport this feature. I wish they could figure out a more attractive way to accomplish this.

    >4. 20" wheels (Since they where showcased on the prototype)<

    I don't really see a real, workaday world plus for these. The replacement costs would be brutal as well. What about 18" wheels?

    >5. Remote starting (Nice on cold, wintery days)<

    I have a friend in Chicago and she loves this feature, which she added at the dealership. I would use it here in California with the air conditioning -- on those days when the inside of your car can feel like an inferno after 30 minutes in the hot sun.

    Thanks for the link to the Canadian article. That was an interesting read.
  • aggie76aggie76 Posts: 265
    3) Those circles have nothing to do with intelligent cruise of any kind. They are the parking distance control sensors and are not connected to any form on cruise on any automakers vehicle that I know of.
  • From what I've read and seen regarding the new geenration Acura RL, I have to give kudos to Acura for producing (finally) a handsome new car, both outside and inside, in particular, but also which distinguishes itself with cutting-edge technology. The new advanced SH AWD sounds very exciting and shows that Acura wants to be ahead of the curve. What could anone want more? So, please, please, please, spare me the belly-aching over how the styling is not "cutting edge" or is "lacking in soul", which are sentiments I really don't want to read for the next 10 years. Acura has done a splendid design job, certainly nicer-looking than the more expensive LS, and instead of criticizing, how about giving them some encouragement and some compliments. Some of you guys would NEVER be happy with anything Acura would come to market with, so if you're looking for cutting-edge design, just log onto the Ferrari or Lamborghini boards. For me, I'm looking forward to the test-drive.
  • proeproe Posts: 157
    I just finished reading the preview of RL in C/D and it seems they have nothing but good things about new RL.

    However, the only two complains, I think, are first, the RL will not power-oversteer slide as the SHAWD will not allow it, and the second is "After a lots of track time, the RL's steering began to feel a bit light and its suspension too soft-there's certainly room for Acura to add a more stiffly sprung sport model down the line-but as the red mist receded and we headed back to the highway, the RL resumed being what it is, a comfortable luxury car."

    From the point of the competing target of BMW 5 series, and MB E class, I think those complains are pointless as none of those cars has a "true" sports handling.

    The price is estimated to be $48,000 fully loaded, which is going to be hard to beat.

    0-60mph: 6.4s
    Standing 1/4 miles: 15.0s
    Curb weight: 4000lb
    EPA city driving: 18 mpg
    EPA highway driving: 25 mpg

    I think this new RL is a keeper.
  • The light beige '05 interior shots now out there look great! To me, it makes the car look larger and more "alive" than the dreary black interiors that have been floating around.

    Now, I just hope they add a wood shift knob.....
  • proeproe Posts: 157
    545i
    0-60mph: 5.5s
    Standing 1/4 miles: 14.1s
    Crub weight: 4000lb
    EPA city driving: 17mpg
    C/D-obseved fuel economy: 16mpg
    Price: $62,620

    E320 /CDI as it performs better then E320
    0-60mph: 7.1s
    Standing 1/4 miles: 15.3s
    Crub weight: 4002lb
    EPA city driving: 27mpg
    C/D-obseved fuel economy: 24mpg
    Price: $52,000

    TL A-spec
    0-60mph: 5.6s
    Standing 1/4 miles: 14.3s
    Crub weight: 3543lb
    EPA city driving: 19mpg
    C/D-obseved fuel economy: 20mpg
    Price: $40,895
  • cericceric Posts: 1,093
    MotorTrend estimate 0-60 at 6.0s, which I think is more realistic. You listed 6.4s. Is that from C&D? None of them did an actual instrument test. They are just estimates. However, I would be very disappointed with 6.4s with all those performance gimmicks.

    My current '98 540iA can do
    0-60 5.9s
    1/4 miles: 14.7s
    weight 3850lb
    city EPA: 17
    highway EPA: 23

    I would have a hard time to convert to RL with 6.4s 0-60. Imagine I would also get less torque (310 vs 260). I would live with it at 6.0s. Anyway, can't wait to test drive one to see. I am #1 on my dealer's waiting list.
  • shotgunshotgun Posts: 184
    Allow me to clarify up front - I'm somewhat technologically challenged when it come to automotive mechanics, so bear with me on this, what may appear to be a relatively naive question. However, I've been reading that many individuals replace the engine management "chip" in their vehicles with custom chips which allows them to tweak HP and Torque figures to some degree. Now do you, my collective readers, think that will be possible with the 05 RL? The reason I ask is because I believe Honda/Acura is allowing themselves some room to improve the basic performance capabilities of the RL without resorting to major mechanical upgrades... in other words, depending on how the wind blows, I think Acura will be able to tweak or enhance, with relatively little expense or difficulty, the 06' RL performance capabilities by merely changing some parameters of their engine management chip...Your thoughts?
  • proeproe Posts: 157
    Another interesting comparison that I would like to add is the Dodge Intrepid Nascar Nextel Cup Car.

    0-60mph: 4.5s
    Standing 1/4 miles: 11.9s@137 mph
    Curb weight: 3543lb
    Engine: V8 iron block and aluminum heads
    Power(C/D estimated): 800 bhp @8000 rpm
    Torque (C/D estimated): 525 lb-ft @ 6500 rpm
    Redline: 9500 rpm
    Handling: 1.08g
    Fuel economy: 5mpg
    Price: $150,000

    I look at 0-60 time, standing 1/4 mile time and speed, handling. It seems like there is not whole of difference to the mass production cars.

    The 0-60 mile is only 3 second faster than most of the cars.
    The standing 1/4 mile is in somewhat 4 second faster and the speed is probably 30 miles faster than most of the cars.
    The handling is like 0.23g better than the most of the cars.

    However, the price tag costs 6 times more and the fuel economy is like 5 times worse than most of the cars.

    So, in that nature, I would pay more attention to the interior and feature of a car than performance of a car as most of the mass production cars do not different that much in its class.

    And, that is why I say the new RL is a keeper.
  • proeproe Posts: 157
    My take is that there will be a A-spec for RL as you have A-spec in TL, A-spec in TSX and Type-S in RSX, however, I do not think the performance improvement will come from the engine tweaking as I believe it would mass up the setup of transmission, and SH-AWD, and other related departments.

    I hope there will a A-Spec for RL, then the only other car that I am waiting for is 2008 Nissan Skyline.
  • >So, please, please, please, spare me the belly-aching over how the styling is not "cutting edge" or is "lacking in soul", which are sentiments I really don't want to read for the next 10 years.<

    Last time I checked, this is a public forum, and not a bully pulpit. Just because you are enthralled with the new design does not mean that the rest of us who have expressed opposing views and opinions are "chopped liver" solely because of your pronouncement and decree that Acura has produced "(finally") "a handsome new car". Hmmm, sounds like you were not too enthralled with previous designs as well.

    >Some of you guys would NEVER be happy with anything Acura would come to market with<

    Unless you know us all personally -- which you cannot and do not -- such a statement has no veracity. By the way, for what it's worth, I was darn happy with my first Acura, and the two Hondas I had before that, thank you very much. My loyalty to the company has kept me driving their cars, and, waiting for a styling change that I liked equally well.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    There is no secondary reduction in TL. So, in fifth, the axle ratio is 4.428, and gear ratio is 0.481.

    In case of RL, besides the axle ratio (4.600) and gear ratio 0.48:1, there is another reduction of 1.238:1 which pushes the fifth gear overall drive ratio to about 2.75:1.
  • shotgunshotgun Posts: 184
    Let me get this gearing stuff straight and please don't laugh...If the gearing ratio, in first gear is 2.59:1, doesn't that mean for each rotation of the crankshaft (engine) the wheels or drive shaft turns 2.59 times? Or do I have it backwards? Please enlighten me Robertsmx...This gear ratio, axle ratio, final drive ratio, secondary/primary reduction, etc. is, for a lack of a better word, confusing. I think I could relate to this terminology much better if the numbers were converted to something I could relate to, something simple, like speed in the various gears...Thanks.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,530
    "In case of RL, besides the axle ratio (4.600) and gear ratio 0.48:1, there is another reduction of 1.238:1 which pushes the fifth gear overall drive ratio to about 2.75:1. "

    Aha.

    Fascinating.

    Thanks,
    - Ray
    Now very interested in experiencing what this particular acceleration and highway MPG compromise will feel lie - on the road . . .
  • It may be possible to replace the chip to get more HP, but I wouldn't do it until after your warranty expires.

    Also, 300HP might be the max (in any case it's pretty close to the max) on a 3.5L engine. It's not like the 3.5L 260HP G35, where you KNEW there were more horses in that engine.
  • It is unlikely that a chip on a non-turbo-charged engine will make much difference.

    The HP and torque claims made by chip makers ARE real -- but substantial gains are made only to turbo-charged engines. The impact on such engines is often massive increases in torque.

    For a normally aspirated engine such as the Acura's, the most significant steps that can be taken (for "sane" money) would include modifications that will improve the breathing of the engine: new exhaust system, air filter and the engine management chip combined might be good for about a 5% bump in "power" -- realize, too, that this bump in torque MAY take place at somewhat higher RPM's than the factory set up.

    This may translate less into off the line capabilities and more to highway urge.

    At the risk of suggesting something in-sane, I would tell you that a fairly big bang for perhaps double the cost of new pipes, would be a modest boost supercharger (someone, somewhere will probably make one or one already is out there that can be relatively easily adapted).

    The performance of the new RL hardly seems to be a weakness -- even though the relatively low torque at a relatively high RPM would seem to point to an area that could be strengthened somewhat. But this engine is probably fairly conservatively tuned and perhaps will be tweaked in subsequent years to improve both the numbers and the associated performance.

    This is darn near a first, the car isn't even out and folks want to tweak it. Oh well, more power to you (pun intended).
  • l943973l943973 Posts: 197
    From Canadian Driver - "Toronto, Ontario - Acura Canada announced the price for its all-new Acura RL performance-luxury sedan. The MSRP (Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price) will be $69,500, up from $55,800 for the 2004 3.5RL model."

    Thats about a 25% increase. Does this mean that the new US RL will be around $56,800. That is just way too high.
  • >>From Canadian Driver - "Toronto, Ontario - Acura Canada announced the price for its all-new Acura RL performance-luxury sedan. The MSRP (Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price) will be $69,500, up from $55,800 for the 2004 3.5RL model."

    >>Thats about a 25% increase. Does this mean that the new US RL will be around $56,800. That is just way too high.

    Actually, at current conversion rates, $69,500 Canadian, translates to $53,983 USD. However, that's still too high, in my opinion, even though I really like the new RL.
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    You're right. I wonder if the Canadian RL did not have standard NAV as the US model does. I'm assuming it remains standard on the new model.

    Nebraskaguy - We can't do a straight conversion with Canadian currency in the car market. Different markets lead to different prices. US CR-V owners hate the fact that Canadians get the good stuff long before we do. But (in the mass market arena), Honda has to offer extras to compete.
  • >>Nebraskaguy - We can't do a straight conversion with Canadian currency in the car market. Different markets lead to different prices. US CR-V owners hate the fact that Canadians get the good stuff long before we do. But (in the mass market arena), Honda has to offer extras to compete.

    I realize that. However, it appeared that was what the original poster was trying to do and that is what I was responding to.
  • There are a few differences between the standard RL offered in Canada and the U. S.
    Canadian cars include headlight washers as well as ventilated front seats.
    U. S. cars include XM Radio with the new traffic feature and perhaps Onstar.
    This will differentiate to a small degree the pricing difference.
  • proeproe Posts: 157
    The estimate price from C/D is $48,000, which makes more sense than the straight currency conversion.
  • The "official" (as in it has been quoted) Acura statment pertaining to the new RL is that it will "come in substantially under $50,000 and that is with 'all the toys' since there are, ostensibly no options."

    The issue remains, however, if $48,000 is "substantially" under $50K. Without regard to the debate of the meaning of the word in that context, an MSRP of $48K seems appropriate -- unless, as C/D mentions, this is expecting the car to be "instantly" transformed (by virture of this new model) from the mid-premium class to the premium class.

    It is a tough call -- this car, if it is indeed $48K seems to be "reasonable." But, hey, I'm the guy that thought the Passat W8 for around $38K was also reasonable -- and the market and the lack of marketing conspired to prove me wrong.

    The RL -- which has certainly never been ill thought of -- may not be able to compete at $48K, perhaps it needs to be at $46,900 for "psychological reasons" until it proves itself to be worthy of being included in the high zoot club.

    This is in 5 series and the A6's price range (even though based on what I've seen it would take at least $3 or $4K more from the A6 to approximate the RL) -- and for the past few years the RL has been a runner up in this class.

    Anyway, for $48K MSRP, I, for one, am willing to suggest that while NOT "substantially" below $50 large, it is enough of a value to at least be considered alongside other "like class" cars.

    That exec who said "substantially below" is probably wishing he would have not uttered the "s" word in that context.

    We'll see.
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