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Acura RL

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Comments

  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    10% off the MSRP is something I set my target at. Although, I would say that some vehicles could be better value at MSRP than another at invoice. In the end, it is about getting what you pay for.
  • >>10% off the MSRP is something I set my target at. Although, I would say that some vehicles could be better value at MSRP than another at invoice. In the end, it is about getting what you pay for.

    I have never understood the hangup about paying a certain percentage under MSRP. In my opinion, what's important are: can I afford it, does it have the features I feel are important, does it offer good value for the price, and how does it compare to the competition - in features, reliability, price, etc. Once I've answered those questions in relation to the car I want to buy, I then focus on comparing dealer to dealer in my area. If all dealers in an area are selling a car for roughly the same price, whatever that relationship is to MSRP, I can then make a decision on whether to buy now, or wait.

    But to say I won't buy X car until I can get it for some arbitrary percentage under MSRP makes no sense to me. However, your next two sentences make complete sense to me. That should be the primary focus, in my opinion.

    As far as the RL goes, I believe it will be at least six months before there will be any dealing under MSRP.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    There is a reason to the 10% I mention. It gets you close to the MSRP (at least based on Invoice versus MSRP we see mentioned at places like Edmunds).

    But you're correct otherwise. Like I said earlier, some cars at MSRP may be better than others at below MSRP.
  • >>There is a reason to the 10% I mention. It gets you close to the MSRP (at least based on Invoice versus MSRP we see mentioned at places like Edmunds).

    I use Edmunds and have always been happy. When I bought my RL, using Edmunds I got it for more than 10% under MSRP.
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    I've never understood the hangup regarding MSRP. A dealer offers a customer $2,000 cash back on a car that costs $52,000 and they jump on it. Another dealer offers the same car at $50,000 firm, and the same customer gets uppity.

    The car is worth what the market decides.
  • igibanigiban Posts: 530
    Just realized that 04 RL had only one trim already, and its msrp is around $46K too. So it's almost impossible for Acura to price it lower than that when 05 RL is so much improved. And one trim only is just a continued strategy from the olds, which did not have much success on its own. I am still not sure one-trim only is the best way to do it. But there seems to be lots more features tied to the screen on this new RL.

    That said, we all know that the old RL has been selling no where near msrp for a long time, even way before 05 came about, so it's really up to the market to decide again if this RL is worth that much among many more established choices. Pre-set whatever below msrp may not mean much (a la, old RL).

    Someone said TL/MDX selling msrp is just short term luck? Maybe. But I recall a Honda minivan selling msrp for three+ years. What a luck!
  • I think the 2006 GS with AWD, out in May 2005, with Nav, etc. (i.e., equipped like the RL), is going to be comfortably over $50k. It is a smaller car than the RL in every dimension and doesn't have the RL's power and performance. But you can bet it will hold its value better than the RL.
  • legendmanlegendman Posts: 362
    >I have never understood the hangup about paying a certain percentage under MSRP. In my opinion, what's important are: can I afford it, does it have the features I feel are important, does it offer good value for the price, and how does it compare to the competition - in features, reliability, price, etc.

    Ten percent off of a $50,000 car is $5,000. To me, that's real money.

    Moreover, paying five grand more just adds to the tax I must pay on the purchase, as well as on the car registration each year. Out here in California that can be astronomical, as registration fees are based on purchase price, not horsepower or other factors.

    If I can keep $5,000 in my bank account I am sure as heck going to go through the precious little effort it takes me to haggle for a better price. In fact, I enjoy the challenge!

    >Once I've answered those questions in relation to the car I want to buy, I then focus on comparing dealer to dealer in my area.<

    Yeah, but I have found that once you own the car, most dealerships are only too delighted to take in a customer's service business -- regardless of whether or not the car was bought from them.

    I agree that servicing your car where you bought is a plus, but not one I would pay $5,000 extra for, or even $2,500 extra for.

    Last time I paid full MSRP was for my 1983 Honda Accord Sedan. I've learned a lot about car buying since then. A lot depends on the "gotta have it now" syndrome. When you are so afflicted, one can expect to bend over a little as you sign on the dotted line.
  • My sales rep tells me my car will be in BY Oct 14th, which means i have to more quickly to figure out the lease arrangement. Since he doesn't have residual info, i asked for the residual/money factor for a 05 TL w/ Navigation based on 36 months/12,000 a year. He came back with 60% Residual and a Money factor of .00260 (add .0001 to waive security deposit). He expects the residual to be "a bit lower on the RL".

    Since this works out to 6.24%, there must be a better lease deal through a 3rd party. Problem is, no one has any info on the car yet.

    I'm wondering if the residual values will be better when the car starts selling for below MSRP. Any thoughts? Thanks.
  • As car buyers we like to equate a "good deal" to $X off MSRP or $Y above/below invoice. But car buying is a business, and just like any other business it follows the laws of economics. Deciding whether or not a certain car warrants a certain price doesn't just depend on the car and the price, but rather it also depends on other factors: demand for the car, available supply, resale value down the line. As any old car dealer will tell you, a car that has sold has been sold at the "right" price.
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    A similarly loaded M35 AWD is $49k, not $55k. I don't think adding stuff like spoilers, body kits, chrome wheels, and power rear seats and climate controls, and rear DVD system is a fair comparison.
    In any case, those prices for the M aren't final.

    I think the biggest competitor to the RL will be the M35, and vice versa. Both are similar in price, power, room, features, prestige, and buyers market (both Japanese).
  • cericceric Posts: 1,093
    I couldn't agree more. Both RL and M35-AWD would have to rob market share from German makers like BMW, MB and Audi. Lexus GS is not so much direct competitor. However, based on what we have read about SH-AWD, you can probably envision the auto mags putting RL at the first place of all comparison tests. Sales would certainly take off at that point. If you want a discount from MSRP on RLs, you may need to wait at least 6 months. Just my guess. Most local dealers have their first 1-2 months supply claimed already, at MSRP.
  • . . .most folks don't haggle over the price of something. It is almost something that many would just not dream of, not ever try.

    The same is true at department stores and hardware stores. Certainly it is true as gas stations.

    Now, is our reluctance to pay MSRP [for cars] because we think the cars aren't worth their asking prices? Is it part of a time tested game? I dunno. I think it is nuts to pay OVER MSRP, but I know folks who have done so, and done so more than once (and for a PT Cruiser for Pete's sake!)

    I often find the MSRP to be virtually irrelevant, since I always lease -- but I understand the concept of "not wanting" to pay MSRP.

    The experience many of us have had would seem to indicate that RIGHT NOW is the time to buy a brand new 2004 car [Acura for the sake of argument]. By extrapolation, about one year from now will be the best time to "get the best deal" on a new [2005] RL.

    I have "negotiated" at a grocery store -- it can be done. I also negotiated at an electronics store for my HDTV.

    Those who are happy with their auto purchases at list price got a good deal.

    I am now at a stage in my life (I'm over 50) where I can wait for the car -- I don't have to have it on DAY ONE of release. The only person that knows, on day two is me.

    But the lease payment lingers, usually for another 35 months -- and, frankly it galls me to pay more for the same car as my neighbor, because I got it 30 to 90 days earlier.

    My only current concern about the new RL is that my expectations were set that it would be substantially under $50,000 -- it's current price of over $49,000 seems to belie that claim.

    Thus far, the RL seems to be a heck of a lot of car, perhaps a leading technology even -- but I have a tinge of "bait and switch" itus; and, that, for some reason, bothers me "a bit."

    I can't wait to test drive one, though -- and then shortly thereafter test the new A6 and the 300C AWD.

    Sorry for wandering a bit, but all this "MSRP" bashing has always confused me -- I, frankly, would love to have cars be fixed-price like corn flakes; as it stands right now, it appears that cars, universally, are over priced.
  • >>Ten percent off of a $50,000 car is $5,000. To me, that's real money.

    It's real money to me too - you simply missed my point. To set an arbitrary % off from MSRP is ridiculous. It's like walking into a house for sale and refusing to pay more than X% over the cost to build it. It's market forces that's most important. If you can negotiate 10% or whatever % under MSRP, more power to you. My only point is that to focus totally on MSRP is shortsighted.

    >>Yeah, but I have found that once you own the car, most dealerships are only too delighted to take in a customer's service business -- regardless of whether or not the car was bought from them.

    That's true. However, most dealership, including the one closest to me, offer many benefits to those who buy from them. As a buyer at my dealership, I get priority over buyers from other dealerships, I get discounts on service, etc. Over the years I keep a car, those benefits can add up to a lot.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    10% sounds arbitrary, and is. But, have you noticed the difference between a typical invoice price and MSRP (right here at Edmunds)? About 10% off MSRP is a good way to guesstimate the invoice price, if not an accurate measurement.

    BTW, this has nothing to do with a car being worth at MSRP or not. Just a little fact, that some of us could use.
  • cericceric Posts: 1,093
    JDM Honda Legend is going to be annouced Oct. 7.
    It seems to have a different interior (sure, for different market, different taste)

    Legend Interior

    news and pictures

    If I understand correctly, the integrated NAVI screen can display HTML, etc. I need to get my friend who read Japanese to confirm this.
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    The fact that there is only one full optioned $50k model could hurt RL sales a bit.

    There are plenty of people out there who would rather buy a decently optioned (Premium package, auto, xenon) 525i for $46k, or even a 530i (Premium package, auto, xenon) for $50k.
  • cericceric Posts: 1,093
    There are plenty of people out there who would rather buy a decently optioned (Premium package, auto, xenon) 525i for $46k, or even a 530i (Premium package, auto, xenon) for $50k.

    According the the sales numbers, together, BMW sold about 2500+ units of 525 and 530 in Sep. Without MINI and X3, BMW sales figures would look pretty bad now. On the contrary, Acura sales figures are looking better month after month. The gap between Acura and BMW is closing fast.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    The interior picture appears to be that of Honda Edix (FR-V) not the Legend.

    The Japanese Legend will have an interior similar to the RL based on pictures posted from the same website (a Sep 1 news item).

    Honda has a minisite up for the Legend at its JDM website. Here is a link to it.
  • cericceric Posts: 1,093
    The interior picture appears to be that of Honda Edix (FR-V) not the Legend.

    Hmm, you were right. After reading the translation carefully, it talks about the Inter-Nabi system that is/will be available in Edix and Legend. Thanks for the correction.
  • legendmanlegendman Posts: 362
    >JDM Honda Legend is going to be annouced Oct. 7.
    It seems to have a different interior (sure, for different market, different taste)<

    Different taste, that's for sure. Interesting!

    Has a little bit of an Infiniti interior feel -- does it not?
  • legendmanlegendman Posts: 362
    >JDM Honda Legend is going to be annouced Oct. 7.
    It seems to have a different interior (sure, for different market, different taste)<

    news and pictures< (link)

    Can anyone hazard a guess as to which of the silver colors the above car is wearing? (You'll need to refer back to Ceric's post for the link).

    I like that color.
  • legendmanlegendman Posts: 362
    >Honda has a minisite up for the Legend at its JDM website. Here is a link to it.<

    Interesting little video at the site. Notice the water theme at the end -- skimming over the darkened ocean?

    The new 2005 Acura RL catalog also has the sea -- water -- on the cover. There seems to be a theme emerging here. I wonder if it will reveal itself in an upcoming tv commercial. Speaking of which, shouldn't we be seeing some of the by now, or will we wait have to wait until the evening before the premiere -- October 14?

    Jeez, such suspense ... or maybe not.
  • >>BTW, this has nothing to do with a car being worth at MSRP or not. Just a little fact, that some of us could use.

    Thanks, that was the point I was trying to make in my initial posting.
  • To show how arbitrary a flat 10% off MSRP is, a few comparisons from Edmunds:

    BMW 7 - Base price $73,300-10% = %65,970 (Invoice $66,865).

    Mercedes C240 - Base price $33,850-10% = $30,465 (Invoice $31,481).

    Infiniti G35 - Base price $28,150-10% = $25,335 (Invoice $26,191).

    Lexus GX470 - Base price $45,375-10% = $40,837 (Invoice $39,474).

    So, for Lexus GX470, 10% off MSRP may work, for the other three I noted it very likely won't. I'm sure there are many other examples similar to either scenario above. Which just shows how arbitrary it is to just take 10% off MSRP.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,505
    I am not sure 10% even makes sense as a rule of thumb.

    My last vehicle was purchased as a &#145;left over&#146; &#150; last one that suited me regarding optional equipment and color in the metro Atlanta area.

    The deal:
    list $41,860
    inv $38,357
    [diff ~ $3,000+]
    then current rebate $6,000
    price paid $32,200

    Now with a trade involved, the waters are a bit muddied, as always, but given the CarMax written offer - I believe that number is quite an accurate reflection of the price I paid &#150; and would have paid with a &#145;clean deal&#146;.

    My rather rusty math skills suggest that in this case: list $41,860 less 10% $4,186 = $37,674.

    And I would not pay that. (Just me.)

    But at $32K and change I believed (and still believe) that this was a &#145;flaming bargain&#146;.

    But &#150; that had A LOT to do with the fact that I really enjoyed driving that particular car.

    Just my $0.01860 worth.

    - Ray
    Wondering if there will even BE leftover RLs in a year+
  • ksomanksoman Posts: 590
    yes, several honda & acura models in recent years have sold at msrp for 2+/3+ years. I dont mean that to be a short term luck in actuals, i meant it relative to the life of the dealership. 2/3 years of msrp sales for a dealer that's been around for 15 years is short term luck... relative speak.

    i agree with you varmint. market often decides the value. i almost bought a mdx at msrp, because 3rd year into the model and dealers demanded and still got msrp... of course the deal got nixed because wife refused to pick up the vehicle while i was traveling in europe for work... she went out and got a bmw 3 convertible instead... such is life.

    but personally, i'd rarely buy a car at msrp unless 3 years into the model you still find the car you find desireable is still selling at msrp due to "market reality"...

    damn luck ;)
    ksso
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Posts: 9,359
    ... **I REALLY need it!** ....

              I don't doubt that "you" need it and use it everyday and enjoy it .. but most of the buyers spend the extra $2,000+ for the novelty and think they will use it ...

                 Bimmer has had a nice Nav for years .. the funny part is, most have the original address locations and even some have the same from the second owner .. believe me, I'm not knocking them, whatever floats their boats .. I just get a giant kick from customers trading in their Acura's, Bimmers, Lexus, Audi's and they never use them .l.o.l...

                            Terry.
  • ksomanksoman Posts: 590
    When we lived in the phoenix, az metro area, i saw no real use to nav's - every road was cutting every other road at right angles, everything was a grid, life was a snap fit, you could not get lost if you wanted to (relative speak!).

    We are now living back in the north east, and when my wife is driving her 3 without a nav, she calls me on the phone for directions. I can't believe people like her with no direction sense (which i believe is about 70% of the driving population, but may represent only about 2% of people on this forum... hehehe) survive either coast with their senselessly twisted roads (relative speak!).

    I think state driving test should have a memory component on how quickly you learn a new street pattern, remember it and don't get lost. If you do badly on that or flunk it, the goverment should mandate a compulsory NAV in the cars that person is driving daily!
    lol ;)

    This is the broader argument of, if states or cities can ban cell phone usage while driving, they should basically ban other activities too, like eating or arguing with your partner, etc. since they are equally risky! Or simplistically just keep all moron's off the road, which in my opinion is about 90% of the broader driving population (which could represent about 1% of the townhall folks... geez.. now i'm going to get hammered here for my acute sarcasm!)

    oh btw, bmw nav's suck. so do mb. the only reason we got the 3 convertible without a nav was because it was really really sucky and convoluted to use. i personally like the iDrive, but then again, i might represent 0.01% of the broader population.

    ksso
  • >>When we lived in the phoenix, az metro area, i saw no real use to nav's - every road was cutting every other road at right angles, everything was a grid, life was a snap fit, you could not get lost if you wanted to (relative speak!).

    A friend moved to Phoenix three years ago. She is so directionally challenged she still uses her nav nearly every day. I have such a poor sense of direction that on cloudy days, and at night, it's very easy for me to get lost.

    Memorizing a street pattern is fine (if there is a pattern). I live in the Northern Virginia area. I know people who've lived here for years who still get lost. We have so many streets that stop and start, change names, go at diagonals, etc., that it is very difficult to memorize more than major streets and some very commonly traveled areas.
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