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Acura RL



  • lvdhlvdh Posts: 29
    Though you clearly have the right to express your opinions, I find your comments offensive and ridiculous.


    First, the loaner that Acura provided to me is $20,000 (if that) Pontiac with 31,000 miles. Acura is supposed to provide its customers with an Acura loaner.


    Second, I paid for a 2005 RL and the pleasure of driving that auto. I did not purchase a $50,000 car so that Acura could rent me a $20,000 car.


    Third, the fact that it is the Holiday Season is no excuse for any company's lack service of and/or poor customer service. If that's your business philosphy, best of luck in the real business world.


    Fourth, your fear of litigating a matter such as this is exactly one of the reasons why corporate america is so willing to take advantage of the general public. Stand up and fight for your rights!


    Fifth and finally, you seem to have missed the whole point of this discussion. Acura/American Honda Motor Co. Inc., Honda Japan, and Napleton Acura prides themselves and portray, advertise and hold themselves out to the public as having the highest of highest customer service and best/most reliable vehicles manufactured - yet they have essentially not in any way, shape, fashion or form responded to my request for assistance and resolution to this matter. Many return calls promised, virtually none received.
  • lvdhlvdh Posts: 29
    If you want to know what grounds, read the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act, Chapter 15 U.S.C.A., Section 2301, et. seq.
  • Well... you shouldn't take offense.. As you say, it is just my opinion..


    And, here is another one..


    Two weeks... If you think threatening legal action will make this process go any faster, then you haven't dealt with many car dealers or auto manufacturers... Nobody likes being threatened... I don't personally know your financial situation, but I've got to believe that Honda and Napleton Acura can wear you out with lawyers...


    Holiday season... those are the facts of life... and I work for a company for which that is the busiest time of the year... My little section of the company visits 400 customers per day in our area... Tomorrow? Only 110 are open..


    And..I got your point about poor customer service.. But, it depends.. do you want a resolution to the problem, or do you just want to alienate everyone that is in a position to help you?


    I can only go by the tone of your posts, as I don't really know you, obviously... But, if you come off the same way to the people who are in a position to resolve your problem, then you are doing yourself no favors..


    And, I stand by my previous assertion.... for two weeks without a car, you will get no compensation for interest, etc... Trying to achieve that will end in nothing but frustration.. Something that you already seem to have enough of...




    Moderator - Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,938
    I agree with kyfdx. You won't be compensated for any interest, payments, or insurance after only 2 weeks out of service. You haven't even made any of those payments yet.


    Of course, you could talk to a lawyer, but the cost of his/her consultation would probably be multiple times more than the diminutive compensation that you may be (and most likely aren't) entitled to. At this stage, though, you aren't entitled to a thing.


    One thing I disagree with kyfdx on is the excuse that it's the holidays. That's no reason whatsoever to sit on somebody's car for 2 weeks! I wonder how any of those people would feel if their brand new car was sitting in the shop longer than it sat in their own garage.


    lvdh, about your only recourse right now is to lodge a complaint with the BBB, which will net you nothing in getting your car back, but might have repercussions against the dealer later on. And with that, I'd wait until after I got my car back and was satisfied with the repair.


    Concerning the loaner you got, that is at the sole discretion of the dealer. You're fortunate to have gotten one at all, and you can't realistically expect to be given a $50K loaner car. Even Mercedes loans out "only" E-classes or, worse, C-classes when someone takes their S-class in for service. Imagine going from an S600/S55 to a C230!! Would you have been happier if they loaned you an old Integra?


    As far as the lemon law goes, you have to be without your car for more than 30 consecutive days in most cases. My bet would be that they will give you your non-repaired car back around the 28th day just so you have to bring it back in and the out-of-service time starts over from zero. And I don't know how true this is or not, but I heard recently that you actually have to PAY to have a Lemon Law case considered! The fee was said to be $250 and if they reject your claim, you're just out $250!
  • kyfdx is a frequent poster on the BMW 5 series forum. He is likely here to critize any RL owner. kyfdx - Do you own an 05RL? or any Acura vehicles?
  • . . . my Audi dealer owns Acura, Audi, Cadillac and Porsche (none of these are dual dealerships, they are all stand alone and they do NOT carry the name of the owner -- repeat and loyal customers know what the owner owns, but not because it is called Smith's Acura or something like that).


    Anyway, when I take my Audi (which is a 2003 allroad, stickered at $49,000 in fourth Q 2002) in for service (and my brand new Audi was in for service for the first 11 days of ownership due to the fact that the On*star system was not connected properly AT THE FACTORY or where ever it is connected, but certainly NOT at the dealership) I do get a free of charge "comparable" loaner.


    I had traded in a low milage 2001 Audi A6 4.2 on this 2003 allroad -- so when it needed On Star repairs and it took 11 days, they just gave me my old car back to keep on using. Other much shorter issues (the driver's bucket seat had to be replaced which required a part to be sent from Germany -- the whole thing took three or four days) requiring me to be without transportation have always been handled with another Audi or a "premium" rental car, that Audi pays for. Once I got a Volvo, another time a Cadillac CTS, yet another time an Audi S4 (now that was a blast but it had an auto trans).


    About the only issue I can see with the problems discussed above is the choice of the loaner car -- and although I agree it is the dealer's choice, the choice in this case seems, uh, "unwise." Perhaps a leftover TL would be at least OK or a leftover last model RL (there must be plenty of those hangin' around). My dealer group pulls A4's and A6's (one model year old, but still new) as loaners -- but of course the Audi Advantage program dictates FREE loaner cars (heck I even get one when I go in for an oil change).


    The story as I read it is unfortunate, hopefully rare and possibly would "read better" if the dealer had chosen his customer's rental car "wisely" -- after all this is a new model (the RL) and I would think that the dealer could really shine with a couple touches of class here and there.


    The problem with the car may not be mitigated solely by a loaner upgrade, but I have found that people really hate it when they feel chintzed out (the difference between the Pontiac's rental cost and the "TL's" to pick one is probably minimal.)


    If Acura does NOT routinely offer no questions asked loaner (for free) cars, this too shall be taken into consideration as I move down the path, possibly away from Audi and toward another (gasp!) brand.


    While I do not own an Acura, all that I have read -- excluding here -- about the new RL has just been dandy. I am in no position to crack wise or criticize (Burma Shave!)
  • cericceric Posts: 1,093
    kyfdx is a frequent poster on the BMW 5 series forum. He is likely here to criticize any RL owner. kyfdx - Do you own an 05RL? or any Acura vehicles?

    If a guy posts a lot on a BMW forum and doesn't own RL yet is likely to criticize the new RL. Please make it two to count me in. That's funny.
  • aclcaclc Posts: 20
    Has anyone done their own oil change on their 2005 RL? Is the filter hard to get to? I believe you can only access it from under the car.
  • jjacurajjacura Posts: 808
    "If a guy posts a lot on a BMW forum and doesn't own RL yet is likely to criticize the new RL. Please make it two to count me in. That's funny."


    The BMW thing makes me laugh...and it also reminds me of my son. I enjoy the Holidays because it gives me an opportunity to spend some time with my 35 year old son. He and I love to hop into each other's car and just drive....we went downtown today in my new RL and had lunch at our favorite Chili shop. He drove. (Been going to "Real Chili" since Sept of 1960 when I hit town to attend college. anyway. best damn chili I've ever had... Cincinnati's doesn't touch it!) Anyway my son owns a BMW M3 and when he bought the car 3 years ago I enjoyed the excitement it created for him but never said a word about his decision to leave Acura for BMW. Today was his first ride in the RL. I have to say...I have never seen him get this excited over any vehicle ever. He wants one bad. :-)
  • Let me respond to all who did comment on my postings. First to clarify, my primary concern was about the Acura official making a derogatory statement (in my opinion) about the pre-2005 RL. I have not seen anybody defending it. Some agreed with me that it seemed inappropriate. While a personal opinion is what it is (just a personal point of view) and everybody is entitled to their own personal opinion, there is no reason for personal attacks. Relax guys (and gals). We have over 250 models available for sale so everybody can choose what they like and nobody needs to defend their choice. I reflected on my impressions of the 2004 RL, which were objective and based on my personality and my expectations (and also what I could afford at that time). At the time I bought it, I knew that it was a compromise, a good average of all I expected from my next car. Now I know that it does not sense to make compromises. I still stick to my opinion that the 2004 RL is an average car when compared to other cars in the same price range. Some people like average, I do not.

    If it come to the 2005 RL as I stated clearly I did not drive it, but to satisfy those who were upset that I dared to have an opinion about the car (without test-driving it first), I will drive it tomorrow. Dealer already contacted me as he knows I can afford it, so he is looking for an opportunity to sell it. I may change my opinion after the test drive, though I doubt it. First and foremost, one must like the look of the car in order to like it. I do not consider the 05 RL to have a distinctive look (though I do not want to have an extensive discussion over it, it is what I feel, which is not representative of what anybody else feels). The inside look much better, but my problem is that the car is small inside (again, it is small to me, it may be huge to some of you). There is another vehicle which is small inside, the 530, but in my opinion (again) the 530 overall is a much more appealing car than the 05 RL.

    Now on the "problem of torque". I drove a number of vehicles (as most of you did too) and what I learnt was that having more torque helps. My Yukon has 325 and I can rely on it all the time. I cannot say it about my Acura. The 2004 features 231 torque at 2800 revs, while the 05 RL has 260 but you have to rev up to 5000, which is not used most of the time in everyday driving. On the other hand the GS430 (which is the 8 cylinder I admit, but cost the same as the 05 RL) has 325 torque and the 0 to 60 is 6 seconds flat, not over 7 seconds for the 05 RL.


    What I look for is what the money can buy. Personally I do not find the 05 RL look appealing, the vehicle is smaller, trunk is just 13 cubic feet, wheelbase is just 110 inch. To me it is a small car. If I want a small car for the same money, but much faster I can get just a little smaller S4. S4 leaves the 05 RL way behind.


    Again, not to antagonize anybody here, the choice of car is a personal thing. If you like the 05 RL, enjoy it, have fun. For me if I need to spend another $50K on a car, there are better choices. Acura seems to be going away from luxury vehicles and tries to become a sporty alternative. As long as they do not have the rear wheel drive, I do not believe they will win many people over who look for a really sporty car. But if you like the 05 RL, go and get it.


    Let me share my thoughts about the test drive next time. Let me warn you though, I do drive decisively.
  • jjacurajjacura Posts: 808
    "Let me share my thoughts about the test drive next time. Let me warn you though, I do drive decisively. "

    Mac...Have a good test drive.... Thanks for the warning and... if you drive decisively then... This may be the car for you! Happy New Year!
  • lvdhlvdh Posts: 29
    Unfortuntately you each make comments about matters that you have no idea what you are talking about. Though I'm confident your intentions are not malicious, your comments are misleading to others who read (and perhaps rely on) the information contained in this forum.


    First, the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act is a federal statute and is a completely separate cause of action from a "lemon law" cause of action which is state statute. Unlike most state "lemon law" statutes, The Magnuson Moss Warranty Act does not require that a vehicle be in service for 30 or more days. The 30 day requirement is generally required under state statute "lemon laws."


    Second, with regard to your statement that "my bet would be that they will give you your non-repaired car back around the 28th day just so you have to bring it back in and the out-of-service time starts over from zero" is again just completely wrong and again misleading for the following reasons.


    Generally, state "lemon laws" do not require that a vehicle be in service for more than 30 consecutive days. Rather, the vehicle only has be in service for a total of 30 or more days (typically within the first 18 months). There is no requirement that the 30 day period be consecutive, and no requirement that the vehicle be in service for the same problem.


    Generally, state "lemon law" statutes hold that if a vehicle has been in the service department 2 or 3 times for the same problem (even if only for a total of 3 service days), OR (the word OR is important) the vehicle has been in service for atleast 30 days, that generally qualifies as a cause of action under most state "lemon laws." Once again, these are not the requirements of the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act.


    Third, a lawyer who concentrates in consumer protection area such as matters involving "lemon laws" and the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act will typically not charge you for a consulation. If a lawyer requests a consulation charge/fee for this type of matter, I suggest you run away from that lawyer as fast as you can. You will easily find a qualified lawyer to discuss your case free of charge.


    Fourth, you do not have to pay to have a Lemon Law case (or Magnuson Moss case) heard before a court of law. Typically, a lawyer will represent you and take this type of a case on a contingency basis (where you do not pay the lawyer by the hour or pay any money upfront or during the litigation - no fee unless you win) because under the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act, if you win, your lawyer can recover reasonable attorneys fees and the costs of litgation from the vehicle manufacturer. However, if you lose, typically you as the client remain responsible to your lawyer for the costs of litigation your lawyer expended on your behalf. Some lawyers (not all) will not request or seek from you reimbursement of costs if you lose as some lawyers consider this to be the cost of doing business. Costs include such things as court filings fees (such as the filing of a lawsuit), court costs, expert and witness fees, court reporter fees, deposition transcripts, etc.


    Fifth, the fact that I have not paid a monthly payment on the vehicle because the vehicle was purchased 2-3 weeks ago does not mean I have not already incurred the expense. You begin to incur principal and interest expenses from the very moment you sign the purchase contract. Obviously, you do not get possession of a new vehicle with the first month free.


    Sixth and finally, just believe me when I say that neither Napleton's nor Honda's attorneys will wear me out.


    If you gain any knowledge from this post, that's a wonderful thing.
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Posts: 9,359
    ....... Sorry to read about your problems, it's not fun to buy a nice vehicle and have problems with it on the onset, whether it cost $15,000 or $50,000 .....


                 That said (and no excuses intended, it's called the: Tumbleweed time) this is the slowest time of the year for the auto industry and that goes for any of the district or regional reps for parts and service, so whether you drive an Acura, Bimmer, Benz or a Cavalier I can see it happening, I may not agree with it, but I see it, most take their vacation times about now ....


                  But it does seem you are more concerned about driving a Pontiac than getting things done .. alienating the dealer is not going to give you any help, especially with only 2 weeks passed and dropping their name all over the place and their biggest sin is not getting the part, it's kinda like cutting your nose off to spite your face ... but I guess the one thing I don't understand the most is - not making the payment.? .. do you quit making your home mortgage payments if the washer or dryer quits working.??


  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,652
    I believe I understand what you are trying to say.


    My wife and I were recently on a trip and were passing through a fast-food drive thru. The person on the other end of the speaker started to get an “attitude”. My wife decided to chime in with the other person; chime may not be a good word to describe this (my wife can get “vocal”). After we got our food I told my wife to wait till AFTER we receive the food before she starts laying in on the person.


    From my point of view I think nodding and smiling is what is intended until you get your car back, then you can raise H#LL. Otherwise you may get spit in your oil. My wife on the other hand goes in with guns blazing.


    As it is now I don’t think there would be anything the dealer could do to make it all better ; even if they fixed the car (other than forgiving a years worth of payments).
  • driftracerdriftracer Posts: 2,692
    I'll reply here, considering I'm not an amateur - making gross assumptions about something you don't know about will waste your time - you've already experienced that, in case you didn't know.


    My friend, Walt (kyfdx) has hurt your feelings, and for that I'm sorry, but he is spot-on in both his logic and information.


    It is you, sir, who are mistaken about this whole loaner car, lemon law, and Mag-Moss thing.


    First and foremost, you are completely and totally wasting your time by writing letters and making phone calls to every at the dealership and Acura. You've served to annoy everyone during the holiday season, and that will cost you friendly points for getting things done.


    I read once that the CEO of Ford gets over 25,000 letters a day. Do you think, for one second, that he reads them all? Or any of them? Now, Acuras are leaps and bounds beyond Ford products, but I doubt that any correspondence from you gets the time of day.


    You're guilty of the common perception that 95% of my lemon law clients are guilty of - you actually believe that the manufacturer cares about what you have to say. Get over it, they don't.


    Additionally, the dealership did not build the car and provides no warranty on the car, so they're under no obligation to do anything but attempt to repair it. Once you've made everyone angry there, during the holidays, they may be well within their rights to tell you to take the car somewhere else.


    Second, NO manufacturer is required to give a loaner car, based onany state or federal law. That they give you a loaner car is a gift and you should be thankful.


    You may be very angry and annoyed, as I would be if there were problems with my brand new car, but if you bought anything other than the car you did (or a BMW or M-B), you'd REALLY be angry, since if you wanted to drive, you'd pay your own rental car bill.


    Mag-Moss is the cornerstone to every state's lemon law, just for info.


    I tried to find out from reading posts what the exact problem is with your car - I couldn't figure it out. Feel free to go over it again, and perhaps my research could help you.


    Two weeks doesn't do anything for you, as far as qualifying for anything. First, the dealer has no stake in this, and I highly doubt that the manufacturer is going to buy the car back without being sued, provided your specific issue meets the Holy Grail requirement - a "significant impairment of use, safety, or value". And you, the consumer, don't get to say what is "significant", by the way, just to inform you.


    I'm not trying to ruffle your feathers - I'm on these boards for three reasons - to help consumers, to learn about new technology, and to socialize with established friends.


    Take my advice for what it's worth - your mileage may vary. I have over 6,000 lemon law cases behind me, and I know how these things work.


    As long as you're not mean, like I believe you've been to the dealer, I'll be glad to help. I'm a Christmas and New Year's fan, though, and I won't let someone ruin MY holiday...


  • This article goes to show you that the experiential side of driving a car is never black and white. It's funny that so many of the established automotive mags loved this car and its handling and Autospies did not. Personally, I think they're crazy.
  • It has been my experience that "your cause" is often advanced faster and more favorably if you are a good customer. I am not suggesting that you become a door-mat; but I do urge anyone who wants "A+" treatment to attempt to engender a spirit of give and take, rather than rant and rave.


    Note: while no manufacturer is obligated to provide a free loaner, several manufacturers Customer Care programs do include the use of a car at no cost: Audi, BMW and Mercedes do offer such features with their 50,000 mile maintenance and warranty programs (that come as part of the MSRP). If it is true that Acrua has no such program, it would appear that the fact that "free" transportation has been provided is, apparently, above the call of duty.


    Perhaps the approach that could be taken from this point forward is a "do over" -- Acura, I'm certain does not want this issue to continue, they do not want to know that this dialog is on the Internet let alone continuing with such rancor.


    I suggest you attempt to kill 'em with kindness. I suspect you will achieve your objective if you get the dealer cooperating (responding) with you rather than merely reacting to your gripes (even though as people they [and we] probably all empathize with your situation.)


    Any attempt at this early stage to litigate this matter will surely serve to exacerbate the situation -- that isn't really what any of the parties involved want.


    My lawyer wife uses a term quite often -- "the reasonable man" (or person). Although I do not have the years of legal education or experience that she has, it would seem to me that this is a case for reason over emotion.


    Send them a Happy New Year's greeting -- kill 'em with kindness!
  • No photo yet, but I will post one once I take it. The wheel company I went with actually put 20" wheels on two RL's and said the wheel well could handle it. To make it work, you need to go down to a 35" profile(255/35/20) which starts to impact the stiffness of the ride. The narrower the sidewall, the harder the ride. Going from a 50" to a 40" didn't impact much, but beyond that I'd not recommend dropping to a 35". The Michelin Pilot's you mentioned are very good tires. You need to look at the wear rating of the tires. The softer the tire, the quicker the wear. The Yokahama's should get me 25,000 miles with tire rotations every 5,000.


    The Pilots
  • In their explanation, they try to say that the big mags are afraid to say the truth because of big money ads.


    I drove the RL and do not agree with their assessment but I do agree with their supposition regarding big ad money affecting journalistic integrity.
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